in need of some perspective

[Fluttershy]

I actually emailed him earlier this afternoon and told him that we needed to stop talking, that it wasn't helping either one of us. It's something that I've been dragging my feet on doing; this was a good reality check.

 

Good, you need accountability on this. There is absolutely no reason to contact him again... Unless you have an std.

 

Your BH may want his wife told. Don't try to talk him out of it. Just follow him on this.

 

I find it positive that u don't think you can remain friends with xMM. That is fog thinking.

[Scotia]

Good, you need accountability on this. There is absolutely no reason to contact him again... Unless you have an std.

 

Your BH may want his wife told. Don't try to talk him out of it. Just follow him on this.

 

I find it positive that u don't think you can remain friends with xMM. That is fog thinking.

 

No, I can't. I tried. The affair itself has actually been over for months, but I tried convincing myself that we could go back to being friends. It's been impossible.

 

To be honest, I wouldn't even know how to contact his wife.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

To be honest, I wouldn't even know how to contact his wife.

 

If he lives in the USA, then it is easy to find info online.

 

Do you know her name?

Town?

Is he or her on Facebook?

 

If they have a landline, then whitepages.com will give you a phone number and address.

 

If you know which municipality they pay taxes in, then you can google "<town/county> GIS Maps" to get to the public tax record database. I'll assume that her name is on the deed with his (plus the address, of course).

 

Trust me, your husband will be highly motivated to find her contact info.

[michelangelo]

 

1. Be upfront honest. Don't beat aroud te bush. Tell him you cheated, with who, how long it lasted and how many times you had sex. Don't give sex details unless he asks. If he asks if you did anything with xOM you didn't do with him and you did... Tell him. Trickle truth or withholding truth will not help... At all.

 

 

I agre with this!!

[miguelcervantes]

Scotia, I have read your thread and here are some comments which you may find useful:

 

• You did NOT make a mistake. You selfishly chose to do something that would be enjoyable to you, was forbidden adding to its appeal, and with someone you never got to test the waters with before. This was a deliberate action - it was not a mistake, force of nature or destiny induced action. You did not care about the consequences at the time. Selfish, bad boundaries, bad judgement - you need to own it to be able to continue.
  
• You seem to imply that you had a good time when you hooked up with your now husband - this implies that you were not really in love but married because it was convenient (I know that this is a harsh summary but it is needed). Now this maybe you rewriting your history to justify your actions or it may be true which means that you have always had problems making good judgement calls. You need to decide which is the case as it is going to be pretty important when you disclose all of this to your husband.
  
• Your AP is without doubt a scumbag. You cannot (could not) see this as you still see (saw) him as that wonderful young person you never got to try out. The fact is that you were also that woman that he never got to try out/have and hence took advantage of what was on offer the minute you offered it. He too cheated on his wife and kids and this makes him a far worse person than your husband. At some stage soon you need to not only realise and accept this truly, but start showing true remorse for it. Not just for your husband's sake but also for your own well being. Else you will be no better than your cheating bf in your first mentioned relationship.
  

 

How you handle this from here on provided you come to terms with the bullet points above, is you work on being the best person you can be: honest & open, compassionate and empathetic (to your husband), clear in your mind as to what is right and wrong (especially boundary wise) and truly & actively (not just words) remorseful which means being proactive about repairing things and offering the truth (as opposed to him asking you to do this). Whether you want to stay in this marriage or not is up to you but you will not be able to make your husband decide - he has to do this for himself and will probably need counselling and help of his own. If the worst case scenario is you tell him that he was second (or not the ideal) choice to start with, that you are still in love with the OM and he decides he no longer wants to be with you, make the divorce easy on him and your kids. Good luck with this.

[Fluttershy]

Honey, It is okay to think of it as a mistake. A huge mistake granted but going by dictionary definition, a mistake. As some wS say i'm only human and it was JUST a mistake in order to justify their descision you get people who hate the word. That isn't true for everyone. Best not to use the word "mistake" with our husband as some people confuse the word with accident and compare it to spilling milk (accident). But if you view it as a mistake that is good. If you think the meaning of the word is true... And error in judgement. For me I'd have been pissed if my husband thought his affair was anything but a huge mistake made up on a lot of mistakes as he went. His judgement was very much in error.

 

Another way of saying mistake is I f'd up. I screwed up.

 

So, if you don't see mistake = accident = passing responsibility don't let other people twist your view of the word. Just make sure you don't use the wors mistake as a justification.

[Spark1111]

I actually emailed him earlier this afternoon and told him that we needed to stop talking, that it wasn't helping either one of us. It's something that I've been dragging my feet on doing; this was a good reality check.

 

As long as you are able to emotionally invest your thoughts, feelings, etc. in this risk-free, non-reality fantasy man.....you WILL NOT seek to invest this into, or demand it it, from your H.

 

get it? he will be competing with a fantasy ghost; one he knows NOTHING about.

 

Until he knows what your needs are and how HE can fill them; and until your EA ENDS with the OM, you and your H are in a lose-lose scenario....set up by you and your AP.

 

BLOCK your xAP tonight. Every time you or he reach out to each other because of boredom, stress or loneliness, you set the marital recovery clock back to zero.

 

Plus, think HARD on this.....Your H sounds like a great steady guy... Good provider, father, husband....

 

Why do you not revere and respect him? you know how long it would take him to have women fighting over him? MAYBE two months before he finds a steady relationship with a woman who appreciates him.

 

why aren't you that woman? Why did you become complacent about this man's redeeming qualities?

 

Do you realize all the single and divorced women who would KILL and COMPETE for that kind of man?

 

While your pining for the guy who CHEATS on his wife, I guarantee you your H will find a devoted, cherishing and devoted woman with 6 months!

 

what are you doing here????????

[Raven3321]

Scotia,

 

Do yourself a favor. If you haven't told him already, I would plan a nice romantic dinner or something that you like with him one night soon....something that's memorable. This is for you, not him. The reason is to have one last night to remember your current relationship with him. Once you tell him, it's all going to change; it won't be the same....ever.

 

Now I don't want to scare you into not telling him.....that would be a bigger mistake than the one you already made....trust me. The statistics are dramatic. For couples in which one spouse confesses to an affair, 70% are still together 2 years from the disclosure. For couples where the affair is discovered another way, it drops dramatically to 35%. Time is of the essence. If you wait it'll be worse. Recently in the news, a couple in Italy who've been married 77 years are getting divorced. The husband, 99, is divorcing his wife, 98, because he discovered she cheated......during World War 2. The point is the threat isn't going to go away with time.

 

But remember one thing; life will go on. I know you're afraid but you'll make it. No matter how bad it gets, hand in there. This too shall pass.

[twosadthings]

Actually your original post despite words like guilty and shame was all about your years long love for the guy you cheated with. I would wonder if in your E-mail yesterday you didn't also express your love in one or more ways leaving open room for a loving response for yourself in return. By the way it's these very same emails that whether deleted or not that will bring your married life crashing down in ruins about you and your family.

 

You need to step up your introspection and come to terms with your true feelings whatever they may be and share them with your husband sooner than later.

 

Twosadthings

[miguelcervantes]

I will repeat that doing a bad thing (planned and premeditated) for your own enjoyment without care for the feelings of others or how it will affect others and knowing in your mind at the time that you would not get caught IS NOT A MISTAKE! Otherwise every criminal would be guilty of nothing more than a mistake or error in judgement. So do not let anyone tell you that because it's human to err, what you did was a mistake - it was a bad thing (and many believe should be made a crime legally). This is not just for your husband - you will not help yourself if you dismiss it as a mistake.

 

Your thought process should be: I did a bad thing. Why? Because I enjoyed it, was selfish, did not think I would get caught, have a character flaw or whatever reason you think is right (just be honest with yourself). What is the real impact of what I did? I destroyed trust, I caused real pain that will take years if ever, to heal and I let myself down. What can I do to rectify this and also ensure I don't do this sort of thing again? Etc etc.

 

On the other hand you could call it a mistake, and not even tell any one about it because you are human and we all make mistakes.

[Zenstudent]

No one ever wins these tell/don't tell discussions - it just seems that we're all different in what we prefer.

 

Some people like to play pretend, other people like to act in real life based on facts. Personally; I would rather hear it from herself knowing she had learned valuable lessons from past events. It hurts, yes, but at least I would know that she respect me and care enough to be honest and work on things.

 

The fact that I had to find out myself, muddling through trickled truths for several months, is the one sole reason I don't trust my wife going forward.

 

Also I believe (I can't know because I haven't been there), that an unfaithfull partner will have a different outlook when they "got away with it" compared to facing reality and consequences. Getting away with it, lowers the bar the next time when opportunity presents itself, IMO.

 

But like I said, one size rarely fits all.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

This is as good an argument for NOT telling. The marriage went more than 50 years without one of the spouses living in hell. Now at 99. Lucky BS!

 

Quite the opposite: it's a good argument to TELL sooner. Obviously the betrayed husband felt strongly that he should have known about his wife's affair. His wife unilaterally withheld that option from him. As a BS that was ignorant for 8+ years, I understand that the husband felt like his entire marriage was a fraud. He felt duped; played for a fool. Every Anniversary, every Valentine's Day, every "I love you", etc was a big lie perpetuated by the WS.

 

During IC my counselor asked me how I would feel if I didn't find out until much later in life. If that was the case, then every raw emotion would have been increased exponentially.

 

Bottom line: Do you want your marriage (life) based on secrets, lies, and deception; or based on honesty and transparency? Which option breeds intimacy, and which one prohibits it? Which option brings the WS inner-peace, and which one holds the WS prisoner to self-loathing and shame?

[Raven3321]

Not informing your spouse is ridiculous. The vast opinion of BSs on these threads are that the infidelity was bad but the deception, far worse.

 

The example I gave of the couple married 77 years bore out the truth of this. It wasn't an example of why not to tell but just the opposite. She didn't confess anything. He found old love letters between her and the other "gentleman" that basically told the story. In other words he found irrefutable proof. Then she confessed.

 

Telling your spouse isn't what damages the relationship and the betrayed spouse's psyche in particular. It's spreading your legs in the first place which does the damage. Lying, hiding, pretending everything is OK when it isn't, is just further infidelity. Also, don't forget the statistics I gave. It's faaarr more probable that a marriage will survive infidelity when the spouse has enough respect for the other person to own up to their betrayal. When done correctly, it's very difficult to kick them to the curb when they ask for forgiveness and are extremely remorseful.

 

I have to say Seaviews, you are the first BS, I have ever heard of that feels being blind to the truth is better. To each his own I guess but I honestly don't understand that. For safety's sake (STDs) alone I would want to know.

[Raven3321]

OK. Thank you for clarifying that. I now understand your point of view. I completely disagree. I am absolutely not interested in continuing in a marriage where there is or was a third party involved affecting my personal life and I know nothing about it. At least give me the dignity of deciding my future rather than arbitrarily deciding for me by your silence.

 

However, this isn't about you or me. It's about Scotia and her predicament. In her particular case, I believe full disclosure is absolutely necessary; not just for her husband but for her. The reason she even came to this board is a profound sense of guilt....which is a good thing. What's sad is when you have no guilt. At that point your conscience is seared.

[Scotia]

Thanks for all of the responses. A few general comments:

 

Yes, I know my original post was more about this other man and my feelings for him. That's the problem -- I'm trying to get my head out of that space with him so that I can deal with everything else. But I'm not there yet.

 

The question of my own marriage is a whole other subject. I'm certainly not here to trash my husband -- he's a good person, and has done nothing to deserve this. But the claims that he would be snatched up by someone who would respect him for being such a good father, provider, etc. Well, sure, maybe. I have no idea. But neither do you, and I do object somewhat to this idea that just because I made this wrong decision, he is automatically somehow elevated to being a saint. (I know that's not exactly what was said, but hopefully you get the idea.) I haven't actually told you anything about him. He's just a person, with his own problems and baggage, just like I am, just like the other man is, and just like all of you are.

 

The discussion of the word "mistake" is interesting. I admit I've used it to describe this. Not in the sense of "accident". This was no accident; as some of you pointed out, I did this with full awareness and intent. But I do use the word "mistake" to mean "wrong decision". So if I use it again, please keep that in mind.

 

As for the decision whether to tell or not... I'm not really here to debate a theoretical argument, so I am going to leave that one be. The best analogy I've heard is that I'm playing chess and my husband is playing checkers. He can never win, because he doesn't really know what we're playing.

[harrybrown]

Your marriage will be better when you play as a team and are playing the same game.

 

This is why after 3 years that I am still angry about the effort to cheat, lie and deceive me.

 

I wish my wife would have told me that we were having an open marriage, rather than cheat, lie and the deception. There was so much effort to lie and deceive after it was all over. Yes, there was temptation, we all have that. But to twist the knife in the back over and over again. The lies and the deception really bother me. How is that to treat someone you once loved?

 

And yes, I want the whole truth. I do not like limbo land. It is a lousy place to be. Your husband may be angry about the cheating, but what about the rest of it?

[SleeplessIn]

I'm with Seaviews, I don't personally think that telling the BS about the affair is necessarily a good thing. Where are these statistics that 70% of marriages in which the spouse was told about an affair, survive? I'd really like to know where that comes from and get some sense of how well done the research was and by whom.

[whichwayisup]

The question of my own marriage is a whole other subject. I'm certainly not here to trash my husband -- he's a good person, and has done nothing to deserve this. But the claims that he would be snatched up by someone who would respect him for being such a good father, provider, etc. Well, sure, maybe. I have no idea. But neither do you, and I do object somewhat to this idea that just because I made this wrong decision, he is automatically somehow elevated to being a saint. (I know that's not exactly what was said, but hopefully you get the idea.) I haven't actually told you anything about him. He's just a person, with his own problems and baggage, just like I am, just like the other man is, and just like all of you are.

 

He is just as responsible for problems in the marriage as you are. He however, is NOT responsible for your decision to cheat on him and have an affair. That is all on you, not him. You chose to handle your martial issues by going outside of your marriage instead of fixing what is broken, whether it be the actual marriage itself, or yourself - Doing counseling with him, or divorcing. Do you two communicate your needs and listen to one another, put oneself in the other persons shoes?

[italianjob]

Well, Scotia, this is gonna be a tough one.

The decision to tell your husband or not is yours.

Keep in mind that there is NO WAY to KNOW FOR SURE that the affair will never surface. There's no telling what the future might bring, maybe you will be able to keep it secret forever, maybe your husband will find out. If this happens, let's say, 5 or 10 years from now, he will look at these years as if he was in a remake of "The Truman Show", and you won't be able to help him cope because for you it will just be ancient history.

If you do tell, don't rush things, try to make things clear within yourself, before you actually sit him down and spill the beans. At first he'll want to know the sexual parts of the story, but pretty soon he'll focus on understanding what your true feelings are, so you better sort them out before you tell.

And be prepared... Forgiveness is not guaranteed, this could be a deal breaker even if you confess...

Remember that it's going to take months or even years before your relationship with your husband becomes comfortable and enjoyable again, and even more than that to regain his trust. He will be suspicious of every kind of contact with other men for a long, long time.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do...

[miguelcervantes]

While it may be true, as some have said, that the need to tell your betrayed spouse (saint or not) is not a universal truth, the real problem that sprang out at me when I read your thread is that you were never really in love with your husband and that you married him almost because you were comfortable with him.

 

You did not feel the same stirrings for him as you did with the other man. This is what he really needs to know for two main reasons: so that he may have a chance at deciding whether he should leave and try and find someone who is genuinely in love with him; and to stop you from doing this again as you may find someone else who does light your fire again and go for it (make another wrong decision or mistake or whatever you want to call it).

 

Now if your honest reflection on this is that you realise you are actually in love with him, then you really need to get down to the bottom of why you did it. And this could end up with you deciding to go forward in silence (although I cannot see how you can be the best that you can be and also have a strong relationship while lying to him). If, on the other hand, you are not in love with him then set him free.

[Raven3321]

Scotia,

 

You OK?