just bird Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Hello all, This is my first time posting here, and so I'm looking forward to learning your thoughts. My issue is complicated and could be likened to a thousand piece puzzle, but I think it would be impossible to give you a true sense of my situation without identifying and describing each piece. However I can't even identify some of the pieces myself, and so I can only do my best at providing a rough, probably distorted version of my problem as I see it. In October 2011, I was diagnosed with severe depression. It had been a long time coming. At the beginning of 2012 I met my current partner. I was very honest about my depression and history, and he was very caring and understanding about my situation. To begin with, we led a regular sex life (obviously I didn't rush into that level of intimacy, it took a little time). He was honest that he loved sex, and I said that I was certainly happy to have more of it than I had been having! After some time I found myself just going through the motions, hoping to satisfy him so I could just go to sleep. I quickly recognised this wasn't healthy (I do have some negative sexual experiences in my past), and so started making changes to how often I agreed to have sex. Meanwhile, this kind and loving man also started showing signs of crumbling. I have no idea how or when his behaviour and attitude towards me started changing, maybe it was simultaneous with the change in our sexual habits, maybe not. Maybe one caused the other, who knows! However, there have been occasions over the last year and a half, maybe more, when he has reduced me to tears of helplessness, loneliness and sheer despair. The first really awful time this happened was at a party. He somehow just started insulting and shouting at me, telling me it was over etc. I spent most of the party stuck in the disabled toilet while a mutual friend consoled me. I thought we were over but I didn't have a clue why he was being so mean to me. The next day, he apologised somehow (memory of that is weak) and he swore it would never happen again. Some months later (maybe 6 months) a similar thing happened when we were alone together at home. I don't remember how it started or how it escalated, but he announced we were over again. I stayed very calm throughout this time (being sober helped), and tried to use some of my counselling skills to deal with it. However his response was the same, and he just let me walk away crying silently thinking we were over. The aftermath lasted a few days, with my close friends and I trying to work out where I could live and how I could get on with life. I really believed it was over. Then along came the apology, the flowers, the declaration of undying love. So I stayed, but with the warning that if he ever did that to me again, I WOULD leave. That was probably a year ago ish, and he has never dared go that far with me again, but... Now, I get an angry outburst every few days or so. A recent example would be: Last night while I was helping him with some paperwork, I suggested that it might be easier to set up my bank details on his telephone banking (to pay some of his bills through my account - I'm online, he's not.) His response was, "well sorry I am so much trouble for you! Maybe if you got up earlier you could go to the bank before you started work, rather than lazing around in bed." I responded explaining the bank is not open before I start work. His response was to repeat the fact I should get up earlier, and go to a bank that opened earlier (one which is 12 miles out of my way, before my 10 mile drive to work). I stopped listening at this point refusing to be drawn in, but he went on insulting me for a while longer. Today, of course, the apology. He's madly in love with me and he was sorry for being stroppy. He was just tired. The reason for these outbursts of angry retort are usually attributed to tiredness, hunger or something I've said (I'm usually accused of being ungrateful). And so, with these outbursts in mind, I've been withdrawing more and more from him sexually. At one point he used to pester me all the time (so it seemed), and I told him it had to stop because it was making me feel like an object. He did stop (mostly) and reminds me from time to time how good he's being. Then, because I was on anti depressants, I assumed I had a low sex drive because of the pills. I'd suggested to him that maybe that was causing the lack of sex. However, when I came off the pills last autumn, not much changed. More recently, I've tried to explain to him that each time he upsets me I feel further away from him, and that I need to feel emotionally close to him in order to be able to be intimately close to him. Tonight, however, he tried his moves on me again. And again, because he upset me so much the night before, I didn't feel physically able to be intimate. The result was a long talk, where he reminded me that he had always been honest about having a high sex drive. He told me I'd told him originally that I loved sex too (really can't imagine me saying this - although, I do like sex under the right circumstances). Then, he said that I always seemed to have an excuse to not want sex with him: first it was my pills, now it's because I don't feel emotionally connected. And then he said, "I am just a man after all, and without sex I afraid I may be tempted to stray." He asked me to tell him honestly whether I wanted to be with him or not. I told him I did, and that kind of left us at stale mate. I don't know what to do. I'm so confused. I really want to keep the life I've got with him, but part of me realises this can't go on. He has really upset me so many times, by accusing me of things like: not coping with the housework, not waking up early enough, going to bed too late, only working part time, not getting ready quick enough... I've tried to explain how much this hurts me, but it somehow gets pushed under the rug, or he accuses me of being mean to him too sometimes. I might be moody sometimes but I never throw hurtful insults at him! But then, on the flipside he can be so loving, always telling me he loves me, bringing back nice things from the shop, putting fuel in my car, paying for my drinks when we go out... I feel guilty for painting such a negative view of him. A lot of his friends/aquaintences think he's a lovely guy, and I've often been told how lucky I am to have him as a boyfriend. I guess they've never seen his temper. So, if I can make this work I either need to sort out whatever sexual issues I have, and/or try to make him understand why his regular undesired behaviour is driving us apart. Maybe I am just being too sensitive, and should ignore it? I always say this, but at the time of insult I can't help getting upset (not great for someone recovering from depression). Any advice? Is it me? Is it him? How do I stop this ship from sinking?
Author just bird Posted January 28, 2014 Author Posted January 28, 2014 Oh gee, sorry! I wrote a book!
GemmaUK Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Oh gee, sorry! I wrote a book! All of the way through that you have mentioned again and again times when he has put you down. No one who loves someone should do that. I really think you should get away from this guy. It won't get any better. There's a couple of books here - the first very short but worth a read, the second more involved. See if you recognise him in either - and if you do you will get an idea where his behaviour could lead. These are the UK versions but you will also find them on Amazon whereever you are I would think. http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Jealousy-Game-Relationships-Dangerous-ebook/dp/B004RUZPZ4/ref=sr_1_3?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1390892805&sr=1-3&keywords=the+jealousy+game How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved: Describes 8 Types of Dangerous Men, Gives Defense Strategies and a Red Alert Checklist for Each,: Amazon.co.uk: Sandra L. Brown: Books EDITED TO ADD: That first book is on Kindle and is a free book in the UK just now. You can download a free Kindle App to your phone if you don't have a Kindle. It'll take an hour or so to read is all I would really recommend it to you as a quick first read. Edited January 28, 2014 by GemmaUK 2
OpheliaSong Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Seems like through your explanations he does a lot of passive aggressive controlling you through nagging and blaming. I think you already know this is a sinking ship. Why you would think anything is going to improve or change, I have no clue. Saying I am sorry and doing the same ting over and over again means he doesn't mean his apologies and is just manipulating you into staying with him. It is time to leave for good and go NC. Being alone could only be a massive improvement. I have been with a man who wanted to blame me for everything that happened in our relationship and it is once of my biggest regrets that I didn't see him right away for the toxic person he is and get away from him faster. I hope you are nice to yourself and you get away quick. 4
GemmaUK Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I have been with a man who wanted to blame me for everything that happened in our relationship and it is once of my biggest regrets that I didn't see him right away for the toxic person he is and get away from him faster. Same here, I got away last April and I'm only just really realising all that went on. Single is a much much better place to be. 1
whichwayisup Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 It's not you, this is all him. He's abusive and cruel. A kind and patient person doesn't do what he's done to you! You're better off alone. Love or not, this guy is a jerk and his behaviour is awful, how he is treating you. Dump him. Really you are lovely and a peach! 1
Emilia Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 The next day, he apologised somehow (memory of that is weak) and he swore it would never happen again. Some months later (maybe 6 months) a similar thing happened when we were alone together at home. I don't remember how it started or how it escalated, but he announced we were over again. I stayed very calm throughout this time (being sober helped), and tried to use some of my counselling skills to deal with it. However his response was the same, and he just let me walk away crying silently thinking we were over. The aftermath lasted a few days, with my close friends and I trying to work out where I could live and how I could get on with life. I really believed it was over. OP, how much do you drink?
GemmaUK Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 OP, how much do you drink? I really don't think that is the main concern just now to be fair and considerate to Just Bird when she is posting asking for help. Also, the way it was worded looked to me as though it was 'compared to him'. I certainly wouldn't blame the lady for having a glass of wine or two with things like this keep kicking off though. Many folk drink every night with their dinner. 1
Author just bird Posted January 28, 2014 Author Posted January 28, 2014 Thank you all for your kind, supportive words. It is so lovely that you all took time to respond to my post. It means such a lot. Thank you. I had to giggle that someone asked the 'how much do you drink' question! What's wrong with a glass of Champers in the morning? (Don't worry, it's a joke!). I mentioned I was sober, because the previous time this type of thing had happened was at a birthday party where we had both had a glass or two. I wanted to stop the insinuation that the behaviour was drink motivated. I think he was sober the second time too. Anyhow, I guess the advice is not any different to what I thought. I just had to get the story out there, test it out, see what the response was. I might've been wrong, I might've been judging it all wrong. After a stint of mental illness you lose faith in your ability to judge a situation. I will read the ebooks recommended, thank you. I am actually writing from the UK on my kindle, so the first book recommendation is perfect... going to download now! Xxx
GoreSP Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 It seems to me like you are in an abusive relationship - you're just not getting physically hit. You should definitely dump the douchebag.
Quiet Storm Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 This is what it sounds like to me... He has a high sex drive and like many men, is naturally inclined to express his love for you through sex. When you are tired or not in the mood, he takes it as a personal rejection. Since he expresses his love through sex, he assumes you are the same way. So he feels like you aren't attracted to him and questions your love for him when you don't want sex. This frustrates him, and he probably holds these feelings inside until they explode. He doesnt have good coping skills, and overreacts because his feelings overwhelm him. He doesn't have the tools or maturity to control that anger and he takes it out on you. His reactions cause you to (rightfully) distance yourself from him, which impacts your emotional connection to him. You feel confused, guarded and distant. You don't want sex with him because you don't feel emotionally safe. When you tell him how you feel, it feels to him like you are using sex as a weapon. He feels like you are punishing him. This results in him feeling resentful. He wants to make up and connect with sex,which will make him feel emotionally connected to you. You want to resolve the problems first, because his treatment of you is breaking your bond. He has issues that are unlikely to be resolved without help. He bottles his emotions until they explode. People like this allow their emotions to rain down on those they love- usually their wife and kids. They are selfish and when they are in anger mode, nobody else matters. They can't see past their own feelings. He genuinely feels bad afterwards and probably really does want to stop this, but he doesn't have the tools to change. He really thinks he'll never do it again, but all that goes out the window when he switches into anger mode. You won't be able to relax and feel safe with him, and will find yourself "walking on eggshells" to avoid his mood swings. He doesn't have the coping skills or the emotional maturity to be a good partner to anyone. 7
GemmaUK Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Thank you all for your kind, supportive words. It is so lovely that you all took time to respond to my post. It means such a lot. Thank you. I had to giggle that someone asked the 'how much do you drink' question! What's wrong with a glass of Champers in the morning? (Don't worry, it's a joke!). I mentioned I was sober, because the previous time this type of thing had happened was at a birthday party where we had both had a glass or two. I wanted to stop the insinuation that the behaviour was drink motivated. I think he was sober the second time too. Anyhow, I guess the advice is not any different to what I thought. I just had to get the story out there, test it out, see what the response was. I might've been wrong, I might've been judging it all wrong. After a stint of mental illness you lose faith in your ability to judge a situation. I will read the ebooks recommended, thank you. I am actually writing from the UK on my kindle, so the first book recommendation is perfect... going to download now! Xxx That first ebook is like a quick run down of how things could turn out but if you see him in ANY part of the book then he is being abusive to you. Parts of the book were quite a shock to me but my ex is definitely in there. I never let mine control when he tried it so he got frustrated even more and came up with other things that I was doing that were wrong. He ended up sounding like he was clutching at straws as some of the things I supposedly did wrong were ridiculous!. Mine would shout at me on occasion but not much as I didn't let him get away with it. His 'conversations' with his father though were pretty volatile and the way my guy was treating me made me realise I was headed for the volatile if I stuck around. We were only together 7 months and I tried to end it three months in but it took another four months to get away from him. Emotional and or verbal abuse can be as bad as physical abuse. I hope the book helps you see that it is just him and not you. You don't deserve how he treats you.((hugs to a fellow UKer)) It could well be as the poster above said but note that they also said this guy needs help and is actually unlikely to change.
Emilia Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 I really don't think that is the main concern just now to be fair and considerate to Just Bird when she is posting asking for help. You are wrong. People's situation needs to be understood from an objective perspective since most will post only their point of view. To give advice, taking words at face value is not smart. Besides she is a big girl now Also, the way it was worded looked to me as though it was 'compared to him'. I certainly wouldn't blame the lady for having a glass of wine or two with things like this keep kicking off though. Many folk drink every night with their dinner. Yes they do 1
Emilia Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 I mentioned I was sober, because the previous time this type of thing had happened was at a birthday party where we had both had a glass or two. I wanted to stop the insinuation that the behaviour was drink motivated. I think he was sober the second time too. Thank you for clarifying. People usually mention being sober or drinking because they feel they ought to as there is something in the background. Otherwise they don't feel they have a reason to. Anyhow, I guess the advice is not any different to what I thought. I just had to get the story out there, test it out, see what the response was. I might've been wrong, I might've been judging it all wrong. After a stint of mental illness you lose faith in your ability to judge a situation. Whose mental illness? Yours or someone else's? 1
GemmaUK Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) You are wrong. People's situation needs to be understood from an objective perspective since most will post only their point of view. To give advice, taking words at face value is not smart. Besides she is a big girl now Yes they do I wasn't wrong..it was my opinion..it needed clarifying is all. It has been..she replied to you. Sure, OK, as you say she is a big girl. She should know what all of this means and has no need to post. ETA: I was about to mail you Just Bird but I can't as your mail options are not there. Edited January 29, 2014 by GemmaUK
jba10582 Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 This is what it sounds like to me... He has a high sex drive and like many men, is naturally inclined to express his love for you through sex. When you are tired or not in the mood, he takes it as a personal rejection. Since he expresses his love through sex, he assumes you are the same way. So he feels like you aren't attracted to him and questions your love for him when you don't want sex. This frustrates him, and he probably holds these feelings inside until they explode. He doesnt have good coping skills, and overreacts because his feelings overwhelm him. He doesn't have the tools or maturity to control that anger and he takes it out on you. His reactions cause you to (rightfully) distance yourself from him, which impacts your emotional connection to him. You feel confused, guarded and distant. You don't want sex with him because you don't feel emotionally safe. When you tell him how you feel, it feels to him like you are using sex as a weapon. He feels like you are punishing him. This results in him feeling resentful. He wants to make up and connect with sex,which will make him feel emotionally connected to you. You want to resolve the problems first, because his treatment of you is breaking your bond. He has issues that are unlikely to be resolved without help. He bottles his emotions until they explode. People like this allow their emotions to rain down on those they love- usually their wife and kids. They are selfish and when they are in anger mode, nobody else matters. They can't see past their own feelings. He genuinely feels bad afterwards and probably really does want to stop this, but he doesn't have the tools to change. He really thinks he'll never do it again, but all that goes out the window when he switches into anger mode. You won't be able to relax and feel safe with him, and will find yourself "walking on eggshells" to avoid his mood swings. He doesn't have the coping skills or the emotional maturity to be a good partner to anyone. I agree with much of everything you said here...although I want to add a couple things. There is likely more than just the sex component that is wanted, needed/desired/expected from your partner. You can look Maslow heirarchy of needs for some example of this and also google "needs/wants" of a relationship for man and woman and you'll find things like appreciation, affection, respect, understanding .... also, Furthermore, the very speed at which frustration or hurt feelings may even seem like the frustration or hurt feelings were bi-passed altogether and may happen fairly quickly especially if he has not been aware of these processes and physical sensations in the body which oddly enough have similar effects as arousal or fear i.e, and albeit with different release of hormones and chemicals. He will have to notice these things as they happen, and it becomes more impaired if under the influence of alchohol esp as the liver has many functions including the detoxifying effects of anger and its related "toxins". Something he will have to learn and be motivated to work on getting on the right path. 1
GemmaUK Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Whose mental illness? Yours or someone else's? Er...hers..which she freely admitted to in her first post on here. Did you actually read much of the opening post or are you just wanting to pick it apart? You seem to be questioning quite bluntly rather than giving any advice? Why do you do that? JB is a new poster. New folk will abandon a forum when they get such harsh questioning to a real and hurtful issue to them that they are trying to figure out. Give the lady some leeway. Please. Be kind It doesn't take much effort to be kind and polite. Sit back and see how this pans out. Perhaps you are correct - however I would rather wait and see.. JB wrote a very long first post - that to me alone speaks volumes and I doubt she mentioned all that has happened.
Author just bird Posted February 1, 2014 Author Posted February 1, 2014 Quiet Storm, wow, your description is spot on! That seems to totally describe the situation between my partner and me. GemmaUK, thank you for your support and understanding. I wasn't expecting to encounter some of the type of questioning received. I am happy to respond to queries if they help to pick apart the situation - to help me understand it better etc. But obviously, I can only describe my side of the story. I will try to set up the mailbox thingy so you can message me, GemmaUK. That'd be lovely. X
ltjg45 Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 I don't know what to tell you. Frankly, if I was in your shoes, I would dump him and go look for someone else. It is clear he is a liar and he did this multiple times. Don't make promises you can't keep especially with your depression, which he may be taking advantage of and using it against you. However, I am much different than you because I have a hard time showing sympathy for anyone these days and, after the first time, he would have been removed permanently. 1
No Limit Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 I'd advice you to let him go as well. He's already mentioned he might become 'tempting to stray'. That should have been a final red flag for you. But the very first was his outbreak at the party. Should any person you meet do this in the future out of the blue, I'd advise you to keep a healthy distance from them as well. Unstable people like this are rarely good for their environment. 2
Author just bird Posted February 2, 2014 Author Posted February 2, 2014 Thank you all for your advice so far. I didn't mention before that we actually live together (have done for over a year now), he has a son who visits every other weekend (we are very fond of each other) and his dog spends all her time with me (it breaks my heart to think I would have to leave her). I am a loved member of his family, and... Basically, our lives are so very intertwined. There is no easy, pain-free way of ending this relationship. I know in simple terms I shouldn't put up with it, and by staying in it I am probably endorsing his behaviour somehow. Only got myself to blame in that sense. He's been his old self the last couple of days. The nice side is out. It always makes me feel that maybe I have just been too sensitive before, that he doesn't mean what he says when he snaps... but I still don't feel able to sleep with him. If everything was really ok I know I'd be able to be with him like that. It's my reminder not to ignore the situation I'm in. It's harder getting out of a relationship like this than people think. I probably should just dump him, but then I will lose so many other things that I hold dear to my heart. You get twisted in by these things, then you're pulled into what seems like a safe place, then something dangerous happens and you want to run, but you can't run because you're twisted in, and then everything seems safe again... How do you break the cycle?
Els Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 OP, I think you already know what you need to do. If it had been just one time, or if you had done something truly terrible to warrant the outburst (lying, insulting him first, etc), then I might say that you might be able to work through it. But this has happened over and over. There may be legitimate things going on in his life - tiredness, infrequency of sex, etc, and he is entitled to talk to you about his discontentment. What he isn't entitled to do, is lash out at you repeatedly the way he has done. He needs to accept that his behaviour is unacceptable and sending you gifts isn't going to make things better. He needs to take real, proactive steps to curb it and to learn to communicate properly about what is bothering him. If he is unwilling to do so, you need to leave. 1
Author just bird Posted February 2, 2014 Author Posted February 2, 2014 I will try to set up the mailbox thingy so you can message me, GemmaUK. That'd be lovely. X GemmaUK I can't message anyone yet or receive messages because I am a new member. To prevent spammers, you have to be a Loveshack forum member for a while before they let you have the key to the mailbox. Not sure how long I have to wait or how many posts I have to write...
No Limit Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 There is never a pain-free way of leaving a relationship or the sort. You can't even decrease the pain, only increase it. Don't let his current good mood be an obstacle, you have to take a look at the bigger picture. And should his good mood stay for a longer while, you should seriously ask yourself where that's coming from... 1
BradJacobs Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 Just to ensure I have this correct: You meet a man. The man says he's okay with your depression as long as you are okay having lots of sex. You initially agree to this. You're having too much sex and begin to deny him. Then the problems start. With less and less sex the problems become more frequent. The man reminds you about your initial agreement to sex and that if you don't start to put out, he's going to stray. Accurate?
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