Does society want to blame women?

[cozycottagelg]

Both parties in an affair are equally to blame.

 

The OW gets more blame because if the MM is trying to R, than he is working on repairing the marriage and being forgiven.

 

The OW doesn't get that chance.

 

There really isn't any reason a wife has to forgive her.

[Realist3]

OP, think society does blame women for A's.

 

Just yesterday in the news a site called She's a home wrecker was all the buzz. I decided to check it out. And almost every BS on that site was not blaming the husband but the OW/MW for the affair. The common theme was, "I forgive my husband, but she knew he was married." Weird.

[woinlove]

Both parties in an affair are equally to blame.

 

The OW gets more blame because if the MM is trying to R, than he is working on repairing the marriage and being forgiven.

 

The OW doesn't get that chance.

 

There really isn't any reason a wife has to forgive her.

 

Yes, this makes the two cases, WH and OW, quite distinct. If the OW was a close sister or someone who the BW shared her life with, then there would be more of a parallel between the WH and OW. She would then also need to forgive the OW or else change her life in some way, such as stop sharing her life with the OW.

[carhill]

Tell me, is stupid a worse crime than selfishly evil? Is that why OW are never forgiven but BHs are?

 

Neither are 'crimes', at least in the context of this topic.

 

I can only speak to my demographic and experiences with MW's and OW's..... women hold a lot of social power here and I honestly haven't seen substantial societal shunning of either MW's or OW's. They generally remain in-demand by men, well liked and popular in social interactions; of course, there are struggles at times but that's normal in life.

 

What I've noted most markedly, in retrospect, is that the women seem to hold on to self-blame longer than the men do and internalize the process and it manifests into other life issues, like addiction or psychological malaise (depression as one example of the latter). Overall, it appears the men compartmentalize better.

 

I think that 'society' around here might wish to 'blame' people but in reality such pointing of fingers may end up as a reflection in the mirrors of their own relationships and families so perhaps that acts as an inhibition to the overt finger pointing often seen in the anonymity of the internet.

 

I recently lost someone who apparently served as another example of this assertion. While I was married, I chronicled some of her interactions with myself. After her death, I learned from my exW that she had substantial affair interactions with an apparently common denominator in my demographic; her employer. Meh... Still, well liked, popular, had a long marriage. That's how it goes.

[MorbidFever]

Of course they do. Don't you know the OW is a man-eater and the MM just can't help himself?

[Snowflower]

Charade, I really like your posts! I know that probably doesn't mean much coming from someone who was once a betrayed wife, but I do like what you write and I just wanted you to know that.

 

This topic has come up many times and in many ways here on LS. And, I've always asked the same question in return of OWs who ask this question as stated in this thread.

 

My question to you is:

 

What does it really matter to YOU, Charade, as a fOW, what the wife in your situation thinks of YOU. Why do you care if she forgives you, feels sad for you, hates you, etc? Most OW, by their own admission say the wife was a nonentity so why do they care what the nonentity/wife thinks? Oftentimes, they don't even know the wife.

 

Please, if any OW/fOW can answer that question, it would be so great. I've asked it many times and never had an answer.

 

This also brings to mind the idea that it is really none of our business what other people think of us and that applies to all situations.

[rumbleseat]

Perhaps society's view of the ow is best compared to their view of the om.

 

Is he blamed for the affair, or is the ww?

 

As for the bs blaming the om/ow, think of it this way. Most do not completely blame the A on the om/ow. Most divvy up the blame in whatever way they feel is appropriate. While the om/ow may not find this to be very equitable, it really is irrelevant to their life. It doesn't affect them.

 

Question:

 

Why is it so important to an om/ow that their ex AP be blamed as much as they are by the bs for the affair. Why does it matter? How would they like to see the blame allocated? Do you think he/she should be punished by the bs for the affair? Why? How will this help you?

 

When it comes to how society allocates blame, how are they going to know someone was an ow/om? Unless you choose to wear a big scarlet "a" people won't know.

[Tullyseptember]

I have never thought of a rape victim as stupid. I cringed reading that statement. I'm sensitive I know to how rape is at times referred to in comparisons. I never felt stupid when it happened to me, I felt a lot of other feelings! To get back on topic my thoughts are it's not my business to worry what another person feels for me. If I do wrong the only person I should be concerned about is myself and what actions I'm going to take to correct my behaviour and thought processes so that I don't repeat hurts

[krazikat]

I'm sorry if this is in any way offensive to anyone; I am honestly not trying to be callous or harsh. But there is a nagging "something" that bothers me.

 

Possibly I am not owning my sh*t, although my IC does not feel this is the case. However, I am highly, seriously agitated at the way OW are villified in As. IMO, they are demonized far more than the "doofous" WHs (unless the WH leaves--then he obtains equal villain status). Years after reconciliation, OW are still blamed and hated. Many, many BSs use the "she knew he was married" argument to blame the OW. Forever.

 

But something about the way the WH is eventually loved and the OW, whoever she was, is always hated makes me very, very angry. How is that final result in any way logical? Hmmm . . .

 

Here's the harsh part--I feel like a sexual assault victim, date rape. I was stupid. I believed him. I fell for his charm and my deep, deep love for him (old bf). And then I was raped. Emotionally raped.

 

Yes, I was stupid. And I paid the price. But how was my crime of stupidity worse than his crime of knowingly harming two women, one he supposedly loved but chose to forget and one who he "pretended" to love? And why do I feel like the women of society are happy blaming and hating other women for "sexual misconduct" while the men of society simply watch and allow it?

 

Why do I feel like a stupid, naive rape victim in all this, even 19 months after I ended the A? Why does everyone feel so comfortable saying we should have known better, even though we were so badly hurt?

 

I keep thinking of Kobe's accuser.

"Why did she go to his room?"

"She knew what was going to happen?"

"She deserved it."

 

Tell me, is stupid a worse crime than selfishly evil? Is that why OW are never forgiven but BHs are?

 

 

Um, you willingly engaged. That cannot be compared to being forcibly raped and assaulted. Not ever.

 

And the devastation you felt being lied to? The impact to BS is greater, in that not only was the man lying and fooling BS, but BS is faced with her whole entire life being shockingly and drastically changed.

 

Not to say ow don't feel pain...I know ow can be truly and completely devastated. But the key difference is the choice. BS did not have a choice. BS is blindsided.

 

Your feelings are understandably based from your own perspective. However, the truth is that the BS will never see her husband the same. Even of she stays with him, she will always have that shadow in her heart. Always. And the ow helped create the chaos by choosing to have sex with BS husband. So that should be obvious that the BS will most likely not like the ow at all.

 

Again,

 

OW made a choice to engage with MM...knowing he was married (unless he lied about that...then it is a whole different story)

 

The WS does get blamed. Just because the ow/m doesn't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But it is none of the others business.

 

Sorry if I repeated anything anyone else said...I posted before reading the whole thread...

[krazikat]

snappytomcat, he's still your hubby. Actions not words, remember? He didn't pay a price because he's still married to you.

 

Lol are you serious??? You truly have no idea...and your statements in this thread are showing why you have been treated as you have been.

[sunburned]

Since discovering LS as a lurker in July, I have copied down bits of insight and wisdom -- sound bites so to speak -- that I store in a Word document. So many of them are from you, charade. So I am shocked by this most recent post. I am wondering if someone hacked your computer.

 

 

So let me first thank you as I have benefited from what you have written in the past. Some of your MM insights are brilliant. But now, with a heavy heart, I must shred you even though I am an xMOW myself.

 

 

It is appalling that you would compare yourself to a rape victim. That is a violent crime where someone was overpowered and forced against their will to do something. It is an insult to compare your bruised ego to what they have experienced.

 

 

You cannot complain that MM seduced you, charmed you, lied to you, whatever ... because you never should have put yourself in that position once you knew he was married. The barrier to entry in your R with him was extremely high (MARRIED, UNAVAILABLE) but you hurdled yourself right over the gate anyway.

 

 

You make it sound like every BS who has elected to R has somehow rewarded her WS by not throwing him out. In most cases, the WS is suffering as he atones for his "sins." Both parties, it seems, can be miserable for years. While the WS may deserve this misery, the BS certainly does not. At some point, she does need to forgive her H if she wants to continue the M, but she does not need to forgive the OW. When you say the WH is always loved in the end and the OW always hated, put that in perspective. Hated by whom? Naturally the BS is going to hate or at least dislike you. Hated by BS's friends and family? Yes, is that really a surprise? But those are "her people." Why do you need to be liked or even forgiven by them?

 

 

You take MM to task for "knowingly harming two women." For sure he knew he was hurting his W, but the OW? MM assumes "hey, I disclosed I was married. If she (OW) decides to proceed with me then it's with eyes wide open." In his mind, you cannot get hurt because you have all the information. His W doesn't.

 

 

As I said, I think you are a smart cookie, charade. But you need to noodle over this one some more. It does show you haven't quite owned your own sh*t. If your IC is telling you otherwise, maybe you need a new therapist too.

[krazikat]

I do kind of think that when you have sex and an affair with someone, unless it was agreed that it was purely a sexual relationship, you "owe" them decency and compassion, even if you were cheating on your spouse to do it. It's lousy that a wayward spouse would bring someone into the marriage like that, but to me having sex isn't casual, no matter the circumstances.

 

If a woman or man knowingly engaged in sex with a married person, they know the stakes.

So what exactly is owed when the A ends? Long talks and continued communication for "closure and compassion?"

 

Why would you even want to keep in contact with a man who is CHOOSING to stay with another? Marriage trumps affair. If the MP leaves, then that is different. But if MP stays in the marriage, what do you want? If the a ends, it ends. What else do you need?

 

And couldn't it be argued that the ow could show some decency and compassion by going away?

[krazikat]

Can't believe you're even trying to compare the two

 

I know right!!!! It really helps illustrate what kind of person she is, though. She is also coming from a different perspective but still I can't think of any good reason for that comparison....I am baffled and disgusted at this comparison.

[Anne Boleyn]

I'm sorry if this is in any way offensive to anyone; I am honestly not trying to be callous or harsh. But there is a nagging "something" that bothers me.

 

Possibly I am not owning my sh*t, although my IC does not feel this is the case. However, I am highly, seriously agitated at the way OW are villified in As. IMO, they are demonized far more than the "doofous" WHs (unless the WH leaves--then he obtains equal villain status). Years after reconciliation, OW are still blamed and hated. Many, many BSs use the "she knew he was married" argument to blame the OW. Forever.

 

There's apparently some "woman code" where, as a woman, we know not to do anything that could ever hurt another woman. As women, we should know better than to hurt one of "our own." I don't know of this code, but I only hear of it after somebody has broken it, and almost 100% of the time, that code violation is related to a man. Hitting on a guy a friend is interested, dating ex-boyfriends, affairs, etc etc.

 

And I think it's easier for a scorned woman to lash out on the other woman. It's part of how they deal with the questions that come up... Is she prettier/thinner/better than me, etc.

 

Then there's that women take longer to forgive in some cases, and that with a scorned woman comes the woman's "I'm scorned for you" friends, and they can be just as bad as the scorned woman, and they can fuel that scorned woman's fire for quite a looooooong time.

 

Finally, there's if there is reconcilliation on the horizon. If there is, she's apt to forgive him more. And if he's been feeding her the "she lead me to it, I didn't want to" lines, now she's angry on behalf of her victimized husband.

 

There's just so much that goes into why a woman is more reviled for her affair than the man is for that same affair.

 

But something about the way the WH is eventually loved and the OW, whoever she was, is always hated makes me very, very angry. How is that final result in any way logical? Hmmm . . .

 

Logic goes out the window in something like an affair, which from it's onset is typically dominated by raw and pure emotion.

 

Here's the harsh part--I feel like a sexual assault victim, date rape. I was stupid. I believed him. I fell for his charm and my deep, deep love for him (old bf). And then I was raped. Emotionally raped.

 

Rightly or wrongly, the man who breaks his wife's heart has the woman who lead him to do it to blame. The woman who gets her heartbroken by the man should have known it was inevitable. He's married, so you get what you deserve. If he lies to his wife, he's broken a vow, if he's lied to you, it's your fault for believing it. Doesn't matter if he made the same promises to you he made to her.

 

Yes, I was stupid. And I paid the price. But how was my crime of stupidity worse than his crime of knowingly harming two women, one he supposedly loved but chose to forget and one who he "pretended" to love? And why do I feel like the women of society are happy blaming and hating other women for "sexual misconduct" while the men of society simply watch and allow it?

 

Why do I feel like a stupid, naive rape victim in all this, even 19 months after I ended the A? Why does everyone feel so comfortable saying we should have known better, even though we were so badly hurt?

 

I keep thinking of Kobe's accuser.

"Why did she go to his room?"

"She knew what was going to happen?"

"She deserved it."

 

Tell me, is stupid a worse crime than selfishly evil? Is that why OW are never forgiven but BHs are?

 

Because the husband has a chance to earn forgiveness by making it work with his wife. The OW doesn't.

 

Right now, even though it's been over 5 years since the affair and 4 years since he left her for the final time, if he were to call up his ex wife and say "take me back, " she would. His coming back wouldn't right the wrong of the situation, I'm still the witch who stole her husband and the speed bump to their now repaired marriage.

 

It's just the way it is. For me, it's worth stressing about. I've come to realize that when it comes to affairs, the people who get it genuinely get it are the supports, the ones who don't never will understand and are OK with that.

[HermioneG]

Uh, no. It could be 'purely sexual', emotional, or a combination, he owes her absolutely nothing.

 

Did the OW show decency and compassion? Do unto others and all that.

 

Yes.

 

Some expect much better treatment they offered unto others.

[Appreciate]

If there are children involved, OW's are seen as home wreckers. Rightly so.

 

If during your A you're envisioning yourself starting your own family with a MM (whether he is envisioning that or not), then you are in effect trying to steal away a MM from his wife and family. Go find a single man to start a family with.

 

The caveat about naiveté is a good one. Many OW's fall into this class. They sponge up the attention and sweet words of the MM, most often to be dumped at some point. Or led on for years.

 

Some women can deal the long-term OW role. At some point, they wizen up to the fact that MM will never leave, and either issue an ultimatum or start their own process of letting go. That in itself can take months or years.

 

The MM is blamed as well. Huge blame, huge shame. By family, friends and others in their circle. And in the public eye. A MM who leaves for his mistress is often seen as abandoning his kids, even if he shares custody.

[Anne Boleyn]

What does it really matter to YOU, Charade, as a fOW, what the wife in your situation thinks of YOU. Why do you care if she forgives you, feels sad for you, hates you, etc? Most OW, by their own admission say the wife was a nonentity so why do they care what the nonentity/wife thinks? Oftentimes, they don't even know the wife.

 

Please, if any OW/fOW can answer that question, it would be so great. I've asked it many times and never had an answer.

 

If this is open to everybody, I can say in my situation, in all honesty, I don't care how she feels about me, positive or negative. Maybe some do in an effort to make peace with themselves about the situation and maybe my complete lack-of-caring about her opinion will be interpreted as me having no remorse over what happened.

 

The truth is, for me, I do have plenty of remorse over it and I would change how it all went down if I could. I do regret that we had the affair and not separated and divorced before we had our relationship. I genuinely do.

 

That said, she engaged in some behavior that was, being generous, not-so-great. And I suspect she continues in it, though I can't exactly prove it. So as a result, any respect I may have had for her that I may have had to pursue an apology, beyond the ones I've already made, I just simply don't have. And any respect I had towards her that would make her like or dislike of me either a positive or a negative I also don't have.

 

At the very least, I consider our negative actions towards each other to be of equal in terms of "bad" that we're square.

 

The way I saw the question though was to ask about the social ramifications of it. From that perspective, would I prefer that I wasn't vilified by her friends (who are my husband's co-workers), would I prefer that every word, movement, or behavior was examined for the negative, would I like to have those bystanders who weren't involved say "you know, time to move on and focus on other things?" Sure, absolutely. But realistically, I realize it's not the case. I realize if I go to his job and have a cold, it's not that I had a cold, it's that I've been crying all day because he's about to leave me. I realize if I gain weight, it's the topic of happy gossip amongst her and his co-workers. It's part of what having an affair and being caught in it means. So while I like it to stop, I know that this is what happens and I best deal with it. And that's what I do.

 

Yes, there are times that criticism crosses the line... And I know it has for me... Where it's not simple "you're a bad person" or "how could you" stuff, but serious things that shouldn't be said to anybody... That I still struggle with. Because yes, I think people have a right to hate me for what I did and that doesn't bother me, but at the same time, I don't think it means that it's OK to get texts from anonymous texting sites online saying that I should just kill myself either.

 

And I'm not saying this for some bid in sympathy, because it's not, I'm saying from the perspective that there is a level of hate that I think is societally OK for people to show to people who have affairs, that's somewhat warranted, but I don't think that's a blanket acceptance of all types of hatred or how it's expressed.

 

 

This also brings to mind the idea that it is really none of our business what other people think of us and that applies to all situations.

[sweet_pea]

I'm also curious--- are some OW agitated by the way society blames and "vilifies" the BS? Certainly, as WWIU mentions, during or after an affair society (and definitely some APs) blame the BS for the affair saying "if such and such happened, or if BS did this or that, the affair wouldn't have happened! They didn't take care of their spouse, they let themselves go, they don't care, so WS had an affair." So I guess everyone is "blamed" for the affair, some deserving and some not. The key thing is that the two people who HAD the affair should take responsibility for their choices and I don't think your IC is correct in saying that you have, based on this thread. Comparing knowingly getting involved with someone who is married (and the fallout of knowing but getting involved) and rape, where someone certainly isn't knowingly or purposefully asking for it is a bit wild. I'm not sure if you can edit titles but you might want to consider putting a trigger warning in the title or beginning paragraps for those who have experienced rape... Just a suggestion!

[Fluttershy]

I an a fBW. I reconciled with my fWH. His affair was with someone I knew though I never really liked. I don't hate her or wish her ill but I like her even less now.

 

Not because she had an affair with my H. The A was very much equel to blame.

 

She shows no remorse. She denied the entire thing to her H an even went as far to say all our "proof" was fake. He didn't feel a need to really dig an accepted her lies. She also is very nasty to me. When my H confessed all bets were off abd her true feelings towards me showed.

 

Thankfully they kept the affair "accusations"under their hat and never spread her vile lies. But simply put. She is a narc and not someone I would ever be friends with or want in my life even sans affair.

 

I've seen a lot of generalizations and absolutes on here by both BS, WS, and AP. some are true and some not all that true.

 

But what is true is that unless the AP does not know she/he is an AP... They are only a victim of their own decisions. You can commit yourself to someone who you know is capable of lying but don't expect people to think you got "raped" by the MM when he returns to his W.

[awkward]

How should society divvy up the blame? Should the OW get 10% and the MM get 90%? Does that seem fair? Both knew he was 100% married.

 

You know that niggling feeling in your head where you knew it was wrong but you did it anyways. That is how you know you aren't a victim.

 

Why don't each the MM and the OW take 100% of the blame for their actions? That seems fair.

[Sub]

Not because she had an affair with my H. The A was very much equel to blame.

 

She shows no remorse.

 

Yes, and I think this lends itself to the misconception that everyone unfairly blames the OW/OM more than the WS. My W had an A. We put in the time to R, and I've spent countless hours with her discussing her part, how responsible she was for her actions, etc. The OM? Nothing. And he hasn't taken any responsibility for HIS actions. Not that I expect it, or really care for it, as it pertains to me. It bothers me to no end that he put it on my WW, but there's nothing I can do about someone like that. That said, would I be correct in saying that "society always blames the OW/OM" because they feel the WS is being blamed enough by his BS, family and friends....while the AP either moves along with lesser consequence or, in some cases, the "prize" of the WS?

[Snowflower]

Ann Boleyn,

 

Thank you for your thoughtful response and for taking the time to answer. I have been really curious about what OW think in this regard. Of course, everyone is different but I have seen this question posed over and over again. I've never really gotten an answer.

 

Ann, as you describe your situation, I agree that the BW shouldn't make swipes at you if you have been leaving her H alone. I don't fully know your situation obviously but it seems it has had some impact on you at work? How long has the affair been over?

 

I guess what I don't understand is when a BW/OW do not know each other, have never really met or communicated much after d-day and yet the BW is roasted for disliking the OW. Yes, I know I'm going at this from a BW POV, because that is what it is.

 

But if nothing is happening between the 3 parties in the A, no contact between OW-BW and none between OW-MM/WH, then if some of the parties want to dislike each other, then so be it.

 

So here goes my POV and I have been roasted for this here before: I can't stand the OW my H was involved with. I think she is the lowest of the low and I will never forgive her. She has never tried to make amends or apologize for what she did. If she had tried to make some type of amends, I would have had some compassion for her. I wouldn't have forgiven her but I wouldn't despise her like I do either. As for my H (which I know some here reading will think I just excused him), it took me 4 years to forgive him. 4 years and he tried so hard to make it up to me. The OW? Nothing. Nada. And that is okay, I don't expect her to try to make it right with me. She doesn't know me. But I don't have to forgive her either.

 

It's my right to not forgive her and I don't understand why many OW have such an issue with the BW NOT forgiving the OW.

 

Her actions (and my H's) hurt me badly. If she had just said no when my H's actions started crossing the line, I would have no reason to despise her. Instead, she chose to do what she did and never tried to atone for it. My H at least tried to atone for his wrongdoing; therefore, I eventually forgave him.

 

ETA: Charade, I hope my post isn't off topic. I think I am reading this as "society" really meaning, for the most part, BS's, in particular, BW.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Snowflower

[Anne Boleyn]

Ann Boleyn,

 

Thank you for your thoughtful response and for taking the time to answer. I have been really curious about what OW think in this regard. Of course, everyone is different but I have seen this question posed over and over again. I've never really gotten an answer.

 

I'm glad my insight to my situation at least partially answered your question.

 

Ann, as you describe your situation, I agree that the BW shouldn't make swipes at you if you have been leaving her H alone. I don't fully know your situation obviously but it seems it has had some impact on you at work? How long has the affair been over?

We had the affair 5 years ago, he divorced and we're now married. As a result, I clearly don't expect to be her best friend, I also don't expect that she'll have nice things to say about me. Neither of those things I have issues with and I don't feel are exactly undeserved.

 

It doesn't impact my work, or really his, but because her friends are his coworkers as she works with him, there's no real chance to have the gossip die down. Again, as I said before, that's fine. I don't expect I'd be popular with her or her friends.

 

As I said though, there's a difference between that hatred and even expressing it to a degree and "you should kill yourself" 5-10 times a day 5-6 years after the affair occurred. Hatred, yes, fine. Even after 5-6 years. Do I personally think it's excessive? Sure. But I think an affair that results in a divorce where he and his ex work together, that even though 5 years is a long time and absolutely nobody of any sort of relevance to the situation cares... It still doesn't give an opportunity for it all to really die down in the gossip department and so it'd be harder and longer for that aspect of society, if we can call it that, to move on. Do I think that means the level of hatred that's expressed has no limit? No. I've seen actions here against OW's where I'm like "hate her yes, but this crosses a line."

 

I guess what I don't understand is when a BW/OW do not know each other, have never really met or communicated much after d-day and yet the BW is roasted for disliking the OW. Yes, I know I'm going at this from a BW POV, because that is what it is.

That I can't answer, other than I think that thinking the BW forgives the OW gives a sense of closure. Maybe that's why some people care. Or maybe they think their sacrifice in ending the A deserves some acknowledgment. But I don't know, it's pure speculation.

 

But if nothing is happening between the 3 parties in the A, no contact between OW-BW and none between OW-MM/WH, then if some of the parties want to dislike each other, then so be it.

I don't disagree.

 

So here goes my POV and I have been roasted for this here before: I can't stand the OW my H was involved with. I think she is the lowest of the low and I will never forgive her. She has never tried to make amends or apologize for what she did. If she had tried to make some type of amends, I would have had some compassion for her. I wouldn't have forgiven her but I wouldn't despise her like I do either. As for my H (which I know some here reading will think I just excused him), it took me 4 years to forgive him. 4 years and he tried so hard to make it up to me. The OW? Nothing. Nada. And that is okay, I don't expect her to try to make it right with me. She doesn't know me. But I don't have to forgive her either.

 

It's my right to not forgive her and I don't understand why many OW have such an issue with the BW NOT forgiving the OW.

 

Her actions (and my H's) hurt me badly. If she had just said no when my H's actions started crossing the line, I would have no reason to despise her. Instead, she chose to do what she did and never tried to atone for it. My H at least tried to atone for his wrongdoing; therefore, I eventually forgave him.

I agree with you. If you want to dislike her, if she does or doesn't apologize, that is your business. Maybe you'll forgive her, maybe not. In the end, your decision on how to regard her is entirely your choice. Would it be nice if you could forgive her? Sure. If anything, for your peace of mind. But if not, that is entirely fine and I'd say fair as well. You're certainly not required to forgive her. If that's "right" or "wrong," I don't know... Only you can say. And that's not a judgement. I've not forgiven people and I can tell you it's because I've decided that to withhold that forgiveness is the right thing for me to do. I don't think there's any shame in saying "you haven't earned it, I don't forgive you." Edited January 28, 2014 by Anne Boleyn

[Appreciate]

Let's not forget that people kill each other over affairs. Or even kill themselves. People that were normally adjusted persons before. Perhaps in an act of rage, depression, after a night of hard drinking or drugs to numb the pain. Betrayed persons are often hospitalized from the shock, and have to go anti-anxiety, anti-depression or even anti-psychotic drugs. For years. Many suffer from PTSD symptoms. Many are financially handicapped through divorce, or lose their jobs because they can't concentrate. Many triggers last for years, causing problems in future relationships. Those with children lose their children half the time or more. Children have behavioral and educational problems as a result, or often distant themselves from one of the parents. They may be forced to live or spend time with someone they do not like (the AP). Some stop speaking to the the wayward parent as a result of the betrayal (not only of the BS, but of the family).

 

If you no longer want to be with your partner, communicate, seek counseling or divorce. Mature adults often fail to do this and get swept up in affairs. Many people suffer as a result.

 

It's a preachy rant, but let's try to put things in perspective. Yes, the woman who is still sending "you should kill yourself texts" is mental. She needs professional help. But she endured a lot of pain, more than any AP of WS can understand. It's not just hate, it's seething rage people that person felt. The desire for vengeance, to make the other hurt like you have been hurt. And none of that hurt would've existed had an A not occurred.

[cocorico]

What does it really matter to YOU, Charade, as a fOW, what the wife in your situation thinks of YOU. Why do you care if she forgives you, feels sad for you, hates you, etc? Most OW, by their own admission say the wife was a nonentity so why do they care what the nonentity/wife thinks? Oftentimes, they don't even know the wife.

 

Please, if any OW/fOW can answer that question, it would be so great. I've asked it many times and never had an answer.

 

I'm not sure of this is addressed only to Charade, or to all fOW, but my own answer to the question "why does it matter to you what the fBW thinks of you?" is, it doesn't. Not in the slightest. I do not care at all what she thinks of me, whether she lies awake at night poking pins in an effigy or prays for my lost soul.

 

But what I do care about is that her continued venom has alienated her comprehensively from her kids, who are left with a blight on their happiness. I care that, as young adults far from home, they worry whether she is drinking herself to death, and whether they should give up their lives to move closer where they could be on hand "if needed". I care that they have become the parents in the R feeling the need to make sure she does not autodestruct, when they should be out having the time of their young lives. And I care that she doesn't.