thecharade Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I'm sorry if this is in any way offensive to anyone; I am honestly not trying to be callous or harsh. But there is a nagging "something" that bothers me. Possibly I am not owning my sh*t, although my IC does not feel this is the case. However, I am highly, seriously agitated at the way OW are villified in As. IMO, they are demonized far more than the "doofous" WHs (unless the WH leaves--then he obtains equal villain status). Years after reconciliation, OW are still blamed and hated. Many, many BSs use the "she knew he was married" argument to blame the OW. Forever. But something about the way the WH is eventually loved and the OW, whoever she was, is always hated makes me very, very angry. How is that final result in any way logical? Hmmm . . . Here's the harsh part--I feel like a sexual assault victim, date rape. I was stupid. I believed him. I fell for his charm and my deep, deep love for him (old bf). And then I was raped. Emotionally raped. Yes, I was stupid. And I paid the price. But how was my crime of stupidity worse than his crime of knowingly harming two women, one he supposedly loved but chose to forget and one who he "pretended" to love? And why do I feel like the women of society are happy blaming and hating other women for "sexual misconduct" while the men of society simply watch and allow it? Why do I feel like a stupid, naive rape victim in all this, even 19 months after I ended the A? Why does everyone feel so comfortable saying we should have known better, even though we were so badly hurt? I keep thinking of Kobe's accuser. "Why did she go to his room?" "She knew what was going to happen?" "She deserved it." Tell me, is stupid a worse crime than selfishly evil? Is that why OW are never forgiven but BHs are?
snappytomcat Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 oh believe me hubby has been paying for it,and continues to,but I want to move on and stop playing the victim role,i didn't hate the ow,in fact I felt really bad for her,until she threatened my kids,and sent me hundreds of nasty text and emails,that I never responded to,thats why I cant stand the ow in my case 3
amaysngrace Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 People expect women to be more caring than men. That's why when a woman has sex with a minor it makes national news. And same thing when she kills her child. It's looked down upon when a woman drops out of her kids lives too and becomes a deadbeat. It just goes against what we as society deem is a natural instinct. So yea...OW fall into that group too due to their lack of empathy and being a home wrecker. It's even worse if he has kids. 10
Author thecharade Posted January 28, 2014 Author Posted January 28, 2014 I feel badly for women. Especially for women who hate women. Such a shame.
Author thecharade Posted January 28, 2014 Author Posted January 28, 2014 snappytomcat, he's still your hubby. Actions not words, remember? He didn't pay a price because he's still married to you.
sweet_pea Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) snappytomcat, he's still your hubby. Actions not words, remember? He didn't pay a price because he's still married to you. Whoa… you aren't in any other relationship but your own. You don't know if someone "paid the price" whatsoever. Just because they're still married doesn't mean that they haven't gone through sh*t. Aren't YOU still married? Are you saying that you didn't pay a price because you are still married? I think that society is actually pretty forgiving of those who show remorse or apologize for their wrongdoings or what have you, whether they are APs or WS. Its when these individuals refuse to apologize, show remorse or acknowledge the pain caused (and hey, they don't have to! I'm not saying they have to if they don't feel it..) that people "vilify" those. Maybe I'm just being overly positive about things? I honestly think its important to stop dwelling on how people perceive you and focus on yourself and your relationships, if that is what you chose. I know that it is tough, I get that, but focusing on how "society does this and thinks that" about me after things are said and done isn't gonna help you heal. **deleted a paragraph Edited January 28, 2014 by sweet_pea 8
snappytomcat Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Whoa… you aren't in any other relationship but your own. You don't know if someone "paid the price" whatsoever. Just because they're still married doesn't mean that they haven't gone through sh*t. Aren't YOU still married? Are you saying that you didn't pay a price because you are still married? As for blame. You did know that he was married, so yes, you should take 100% responsibility for your role, just as the WS should take 100% responsibility for their role and actions. I honestly believe that society is actually pretty forgiving of those who show remorse or apologize for their wrongdoings or what have you, whether they are APs or WS. Its when these individuals refuse to apologize, show remorse or acknowledge the pain caused (and hey, they don't have to! I'm not saying they have to if they don't feel it..) that people "vilify" those. I honestly think its important to stop dwelling on how people perceive you and focus on yourself and your relationships, if that is what you chose. I know that it is tough, I get that, but focusing on how "society does this and thinks that" about me after things are said and done isn't gonna help you heal. exactly,you don't know what we have been through,my husband didn't owe the ow nothing,she knew what she was getting into,just like the get away driver during a bank robbery,he didn't go in and hole a gun,but he is an accomplice to the crime,my husband is 100%percent wrong and shes not an innocent victim,so yes we are together,and it has been hell but getting better day by day 6
lollipopspot Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 my husband didn't owe the ow nothing I do kind of think that when you have sex and an affair with someone, unless it was agreed that it was purely a sexual relationship, you "owe" them decency and compassion, even if you were cheating on your spouse to do it. It's lousy that a wayward spouse would bring someone into the marriage like that, but to me having sex isn't casual, no matter the circumstances. 1
lace5262 Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I feel badly for women. Especially for women who hate women. Such a shame. I feel badly for women. Especially women stabbed in the back by other women. Such a shame. 13
Cakess Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I feel badly for women. Especially women stabbed in the back by other women. Such a shame. You mean the OW who do this to the MW? I think women who know that a man is married or even with kids and do this are at equal fault just like the guy is, but it's harder for me to understand it from a woman's perspective because me being a female means I care about so many other factors than just lust or affection before entering that kind of relationship... ...But I've never been in this kinda situation. So. 5
lace5262 Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Here's the harsh part--I feel like a sexual assault victim, date rape. I was stupid. I believed him. I fell for his charm and my deep, deep love for him (old bf). And then I was raped. Emotionally raped. Why do I feel like a stupid, naive rape victim in all this, even 19 months after I ended the A? Why does everyone feel so comfortable saying we should have known better, even though we were so badly hurt? Can't believe you're even trying to compare the two 7
lace5262 Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 You mean the OW who do this to the MW? Yes. Ten characters 1
lace5262 Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I do kind of think that when you have sex and an affair with someone, unless it was agreed that it was purely a sexual relationship, you "owe" them decency and compassion, even if you were cheating on your spouse to do it. Uh, no. It could be 'purely sexual', emotional, or a combination, he owes her absolutely nothing. Did the OW show decency and compassion? Do unto others and all that. 5
lollipopspot Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Uh, no. It could be 'purely sexual', emotional, or a combination, he owes her absolutely nothing. Did the OW show decency and compassion? Do unto others and all that. The wife owes the other woman absolutely nothing. But the husband who had an affair with the other woman does. The other woman presumably doesn't know the wife, she's a stranger (or one hopes, so it's not a double betrayal of the wife). But when you have an intimate personal/sexual relationship with someone, to me that comes with a level of responsibility. "Do unto others" - the other woman didn't betray the man she had the affair with. She's not the guardian of his vows. The fault for betraying the relationship lies with the wayward spouse. Edited January 28, 2014 by lollipopspot
todreaminblue Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 People expect women to be more caring than men. That's why when a woman has sex with a minor it makes national news. And same thing when she kills her child. It's looked down upon when a woman drops out of her kids lives too and becomes a deadbeat. It just goes against what we as society deem is a natural instinct. So yea...OW fall into that group too due to their lack of empathy and being a home wrecker. It's even worse if he has kids. for me it was a sisterhood thing i wouldnt do it to another woman intentionally if I am of sound mind ........for all i know she had no idea what was really going on just like i didnt......whatever....its done...it took me a long time to forgive her over my ex.....but i forgave them both eventually.....i think it is an easier option to blame someone other than the one who is supposed to love and care for you.......i guess that goes for others who hear about it too......unfortunately....my daughters have not forgiven her and refuse to attempt a friendship bond.........dont know if they ever will.......they are civil and courteous that is as much as i can expect but they also blame their dad.........messy...painful......sad....for many years after the fact...i am still working on them forgiving..deb 1
whichwayisup Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Many, many BSs use the "she knew he was married" argument to blame the OW. Forever. Some of the blame has to go on the AP, whether it's an OW or OW. You (general you) know going in the person is married (and sometimes with kids) and many in society wonder why on earth someone would knowingly get involved with another person who is married. It's kind of the same when an A ends, the OW tends to put all the blame on the BS. This is all about choices. A MM or MW chooses to cheat and have an affair, many of times when they are the ones to end it too - it's by choice. Possibly I am not owning my sh*t, although my IC does not feel this is the case. How do you feel you're not owning your part in having the affair with a MM? But something about the way the WH is eventually loved and the OW, whoever she was, is always hated makes me very, very angry. How is that final result in any way logical? Hmmm . . . It doesn't have to be logical, that's the thing. Affairs are not logical. Here's the harsh part--I feel like a sexual assault victim, date rape. I was stupid. I believed him. I fell for his charm and my deep, deep love for him (old bf). And then I was raped. Emotionally raped. I'm sorry that you felt that way. To be hurt is awful and nobody deserves that kind of pain. Yes, I was stupid. And I paid the price. But how was my crime of stupidity worse than his crime of knowingly harming two women, one he supposedly loved but chose to forget and one who he "pretended" to love? But you chose this too, that's the thing. You knew going in he was married. That never changed throughout your A, even if he said negative things about his wife, he still continued living life with her. Fact. And why do I feel like the women of society are happy blaming and hating other women for "sexual misconduct" while the men of society simply watch and allow it? Because women compete. For some it's a natural thing. Women are jealous of other women period, growing up, teenaged years etc..etc.. Some are just like that. Why do I feel like a stupid, naive rape victim in all this, even 19 months after I ended the A? Why does everyone feel so comfortable saying we should have known better, even though we were so badly hurt? Because you can't not hide the fact that you invited a MM into your life. How it went and ended, your experiences with him, how you two were together, you two created that in an affair setting. Unless he lied to you and you had no idea he was married, you're not an innocent victim in this, you chose to believe a man who was still living at home with his wife. Emotions and love cloud better judgement and when one has a very skilled and manipulative (selfishly not maliciously) MM, it's easy to want to believe everything they say. Many threads on here prove that. Bolded part - It's just called owning your decisions and choices in life. Some are good and some are bad. There are consequences to face when choosing to have an A, and usually it's a painful lesson and many regret. I keep thinking of Kobe's accuser. "Why did she go to his room?" "She knew what was going to happen?" "She deserved it." She didn't deserve it at all. But, if you go to a hotel room at night, one knows what is going to happen. Though with that said, no means no and a woman (or a man) has the right to change their minds and say NO. Tell me, is stupid a worse crime than selfishly evil? Is that why OW are never forgiven but BHs are? WS's are forgiven because if they have a loving and special spouse at home who loves them enough to give them a second chance, they make amends and do all that they can to never cheat again. It also depends on the OW. If an OW is remorseful and owns her part in the A, doesn't put all the blame on the MM, then many would feel different. There are many OW who don't give a crap either way and it shows in their attitudes after the fact. It's time to forgive yourself for making some mistakes. it's time to love you again and be good to yourself. It's time to forgive MM for leading you on, hurting you and finding a peaceful place again in your heart. I hope soon you're able to work through your pain and let go. Hanging onto to painful memories only prevents you from moving on and being happy again. 5
whichwayisup Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 snappytomcat, he's still your hubby. Actions not words, remember? He didn't pay a price because he's still married to you. He probably did pay a price. And lots of consequences too. One can't assume just because there wasn't a divorce, there was no pain and suffering on his end to make things right again with snappytomcat. He's not off the hook, my guess is, far from it. 5
Eggplant Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Women historically attack the OW, in my opinion, because the men are out of reach. In patriarchal societies, where men have power and women have none, the BW really cannot take on the WH. So she goes after the OW.
crederer Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 You're playing the victim. Don't throw the "r" word around like that. It devalues people that were actually raped. You made a bad choice and regret it, it's not nearly the same and I'm actually offended. Also, most people judge the WS just as, if not more harshly than the OW. 12
waterwoman Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I think society tends to 'blame women' more full stop. Women have a lot of possible burdens place on their shoulders by society - child-carer, home-maker, domestic, carer for the elderly, sex-kitten, wife. We are carers and nuturers, the 'keeper of the sacred flame' of marriage and sex. Since women have become more financially independent, these roles, in a way, become more important because 'society' feels threatened. When women fail in their roles, or step outside them, they upset people. An OW is the breaker of rules. So is a BW - she has failed. She may not know she has failed but, as it stated on this board (and increasingly so on the infidelity board) often, there must have been 'something wrong' if she couldn't keep her man. But BW get offered pity (whilst those who do so wonder what she did wrong, and surreptitiously look her up and down assessing how much she has let herself go) whilst the OW gets scorn. Take your pick. Men have their roles and their rules too. Just as restrictive in their way. Bringing up a boy who likes wearing pink, or hates competitive sport, can be interesting . My eldest is 17 and to my eyes pretty damned gorgeous, but he has no girlfriends - he hates it, not because he particularly wants one but because he feels obliged as it's part of his 'job' as a teenage lad. Howeve, for a man, regulating sex isn't one of his jobs - he gets called a 'stud', a 'bit of a lad' etc. Their wives are the ones who are expected to stop them straying. It's all grossly unfair of course. But don't assume a BW is walking a path of roses with a halo around her head. 4
amaysngrace Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Personally I don't give a crap what other people think of me. It matters a whole lot more what I think of myself since I spend 100% of my time with me. Charade I think you should focus more on yourself too and stop worrying about this person or that person and what they think. It doesn't really matter because everybody has an opinion...they aren't all going to be on the same page as you and so be it. Work on your own self. If you feel like a victim then figure out why you'd allow yourself to be willingly in that situation in the first place. What inside yourself is broken to the point of thinking a half a relationship is better than no relationship? What makes you believe that's all you deserve? 5
woinlove Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Yes, I was stupid. And I paid the price. But how was my crime of stupidity worse than his crime of knowingly harming two women, one he supposedly loved but chose to forget and one who he "pretended" to love? Who says it was worse? I haven't seen that allegation here or elsewhere. A few have argued it is the same, but most say the MP's dishonesty and disloyalty is worse, or else they say both are wrong and don't get into comparing them. Since you are married, do you think your role as OW was in some way worse than your role as WW? Maybe it is your own view that is affecting how you interpret the views of others? And why do I feel like the women of society are happy blaming and hating other women for "sexual misconduct" while the men of society simply watch and allow it? There is some truth to the idea that women are judged more harshly for misconduct. The "boys will be boys" culture. Sexism exists. Why do I feel like a stupid, naive rape victim in all this, even 19 months after I ended the A? I think you are the only one who can answer that question. If you've been raped and feel these are equivalent, that is something for you to delve into with your therapist. If you haven't been raped, then I take this as a statement of how much a victim you feel for your own choices, since having an affair when you know the man is married and you are a consenting adult is a choice. Maybe you would rather feel like a victim then take responsibility for your choices? Why does everyone feel so comfortable saying we should have known better, even though we were so badly hurt? Sometimes we hurt the most from our own wrong choices. There is nothing contradictory in that. There can be some relief in thinking there was nothing one could do. But when we realize we could have made different choices and avoided the pain, it takes extra work to come to terms with that reality. Tell me, is stupid a worse crime than selfishly evil? Stupid isn't a crime at all. You've repeated several times that you feel stupid. That suggests you feel you should have known better. If so, do you feel you know better now? With that knowledge, you can be confident of making better choices in the future. Is that why OW are never forgiven but BHs are? Forgiven by whom? Usually the only people who forgive the WH are his wife, his family if they find out and feel deceived too, and the OW - that is if they do. Those are all people that may have been heavily invested emotionally in the WH and personally care about his behavior. Who is invested that much in the OW? Her BH if she is a MOW and her family and they may forgive her too. Maybe the MM? Who do you feel, if anyone, has not forgiven you? 3
lilmisscantbewrong Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 In my experience, yes - I took the hit much greater than xmom. And certainly I took it more for my affair than my husband did for his. Yes - I got the scarlet a on my chest due to the public reading of our names in a worship service and public outing. He got to run to a new place where no one knows - yeah I took it but I rose above it all and I am better odd than he is. But for absolute certain I was blamed way more than my xmom - for absolutely certain.
rumbleseat Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Here is my question. Who is responsible for the ow/om being in the A? Who forced them to get into a relationship with someone they knew was M? The very fact that society ( according to the OP) judges affairs and the om/ow so harshly would tend to imply that there is a negative view of A's, which makes it kind of hard to swallow the idea that they had no idea it could turn out badly. Of course, this does not mean that an ow/om deserves to be hurt, no one does. What it does mean is that the responsibility for the fallout of their own choices is on them. As for the comparison to rape, well, if that's how you feel, it's how you feel, but I can see ehow some find that very offensive. Rape is about someone being forced into something they didn't want to do, it's about taking the choice away from them.At no point during an A does an ow/om ever have their choice to leave or stay in the relationship taken away from them. Whatever lies the married person may tell, the fundamental truth is that they are married. If an om/ow develops a case of willful blindness because they are in love, who is responsible for that? This doesn't make an ow/om a horrible person, but making yourself feel like a victim only keeps you in a place you don't want to be. Once you let go of that, you can begin to heal. You made some poor choices, but so has everyone at some point. Forgive yourself for that and move on. On a side note, why is the M only vilified when he or she lied to you and the A didn't work out? Why did he only suddenly become a liar when he lied to you? What d you think he was doing to his W during the A? 4
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