HeartBorken Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I would just like to understand i guess why is it people find themselves in situations of becoming the other Man or Woman. So if anyone would like to explain what compels them to do this please share. To be specific what is it that you are trying to accomplish in a sense and are you not worried about the troubles that may happen in these situations. If you could how would you justify it.
Author HeartBorken Posted January 27, 2014 Author Posted January 27, 2014 I fell madly in love very quickly - Regarding the 'hope to accomplish' - strange question, didn't set out to achieve anything!! Everyone wants to love and be loved. What about the relationship of the other person with their partner? How did you view it?
Appreciate Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 We all have rational self-interest. Some of us also have irrational self-interest. Some do not care if the other person is married. Some find it a turn on, an act of conquest. Others are racked with guilt but can't break away from the feelings they have. The smart ones, and the ones with the most self-respect, are the ones who recognize an emotional affair while it's happening and put a stop to it. Most of the time you will find that someone got too cozy with a co-worker, friend, instructor, neighbor, or some other person. They feel it "just happened". Affairs are like an addiction.. we are all susceptible to them. There's a three word rule to how affairs start: isolation - instigation - escalation. Those two people have to be alone, someone has to make the first move, and then it has to ramp up from there. Throughout all of this, there is a whole series of rationalizations, justifications and set of denials. Affairs are conspiracies. The most common one is that the MM or MW is "unhappy" in his or her marriage and is trying to meet needs outside the marriage. The affair provides a lot of stress-free fantasy moments, mutual ego-stroking ("you're so amazing", "you make me so alive", "you're an amazing lover", and .. my favorite, "you're such a good person/good husband/good father"). Despite the low's, affairs are filled with addictive highs. And that's the way you should view them. Addictions. And narcissism, which is vanity plus pride. That should explain a lot of the behavior. 7
Snipercatt Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 Heartb, after reading the pinned thread at the top of the OW/OW forum you might want to ask the mods to move this to General. Just a suggestion.
liloldlady Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 So if anyone would like to explain what compels them to do this please share. It was all his idea. are you not worried about the troubles that may happen in these situations. I'm amazed nothing has happened yet.
mukkrakker Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 If you could how would you justify it. The "justification" is evolution. That's how we are wired, to inseminate as many women as possible, hopefully with passion and love, but that's not necessarily required. In all honestly that fact that it doesn't happen to every "couple" is more amazing. (I'm one of the amazing ones by the way!)
Anne Boleyn Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I would just like to understand i guess why is it people find themselves in situations of becoming the other Man or Woman. So if anyone would like to explain what compels them to do this please share. To be specific what is it that you are trying to accomplish in a sense and are you not worried about the troubles that may happen in these situations. If you could how would you justify it. I don't know that I was trying to "accomplish" anything. I met somebody via work who was a nice guy. Through work, I found out we had a lot in common, then for about a year, we became incredibly close friends. After about a year of being a close friend, closer than I'd ever thought I could be with anybody, that's when the EA portion started. Then, a year or so after that, was the PA. It's not like at some point I said to myself "I really am going to try to have an EA with him" or "I'm trying to have a PA with you." It just kind of... Happened. Then when it did, we looked back and started the "Oh my God, what just happened?" routine. In the back of our minds, when it happened, we knew what the trouble was for doing such a thing, though it didn't occur to us in the forefront of our minds until after it had happened. I never thought I was the type who'd have an affair, and I never, ever thought I could have an affair with even him until about... 30 seconds before it happened. It's not like it was planned, it was just a situation paired with impulse and there it was. I did worry about the issues it'd create, though not until afterwards, when I had a real chance to sit and think about the total ramifications of what had happened really and truly meant. In all honesty, I wasn't so much worried about myself... I was worried for him. In my marriage, we'd all but said the words "I want a divorce," and in hindsight, I suspect he was having an affair too (about 1.5 months after we separated, he was dating and she found out she was pregnant, which means that she'd have gotten pregnant a month or less after our separation, all of this after several months of week-long "hunting trips" where he was gone, away, and unavailable for an entire week), or if he wasn't, he was very clearly ready to move on. For him, I worried for several reasons... I knew that their marriage wasn't good, not because of him (he never said a word to me), but from his wife, and it had been bad for some time, he'd tried to leave numerous times before their marriage, during their marriage, and it had been a screaming disaster each time and as his wife was pregnant at the time, I thought it would be dangerous for him if she found out. It was that reason we initially split, did NC, even at work. After the dust had settled from our PA, which was two encounters, we thought better of it and decided to make it work for our respective spouses. The rest of it from there was a combination of factors... But at no point was it easy for either of us to explain, justify, or just ignore the problems that were coming up.
Anne Boleyn Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 What about the relationship of the other person with their partner? How did you view it? During the EA I didn't think of it, first off because I thought it was all on my end and reciprocated, so it didn't matter what I felt for him. Same for him. When we realized it was and we had the PA as a response to the revelation, we didn't think of our spouses in that immediate window, but we really thought of it after the two instances of PA. That's when the "what am I doing?" "what about his wife/her husband?" questions started and we went NC to avoid any further PA slips. 1
Iguanna Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 There are many and various situations and this question can't be answered unilaterally, but I think that the common thing these people have is the insecurity of some kind. Some women may want to feel they can "change" the MM and make them see they are better than their wives. Some may want to "save" the poor MM from their wife who seems like a bitch. Some think they are not good enough to have a man only for themselves and the halves they take are the best thing they can do. Some are jealous for women who have relationships and they want to break their happiness. There are many who didn't know the man they met was married, but they can't leave him when they find out cause they already fell in love with him or invested in him. All these cases show some kind of insecurity. Strong women don't need a man's confirmation that they are good nor a man existence to feel happy and complete. 3
Anne Boleyn Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 Also, to add above: After that initial PA and her discovery of it, followed by their amicable separation and her blessing to have a relationship, we didn't think we had to think about relationship in regards to her, other than we made sure to not take away his time from his child, to be anything other than what we'd always been in front of her, to not I guess "flaunt" the relationship. After she told others they were separated and they responded badly, even not knowing about the affair, and she had said that she had changed her mind and he couldn't leave/she wanted to reconcile, at first there was a lot of anger on the whole bait-and-switch of it and how she admitted that for her nothing had changed, she just didn't want to deal with the disappointment of her family and his at separating, then as things got progressively more volatile and crazy, it was all him saying "I need to get out and I need to get out now" and delicate tip-toeing so as to not set her off and, hopefully, get her back to a point where she was OK with his leaving. But that all being said, that was his battle and not mine. I made sure that if he left, he did so because he wanted to, not because I'd pressured him to by word, look, or deed.
VeronicaRoss Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 After about a year of being a close friend, closer than I'd ever thought I could be with anybody, that's when the EA portion started. I've got a pretty high number of lovers, I have nothing against love or romance. I haven't had an affair with a married man though, not for lack of opportunity or desire. The attraction always does just happen, and the spark of getting someone at a deep level that makes you both go 'aha', that just happens too. But emotional intimacy is developed. It takes revealing certain things about yourself, personal conversations that definitely can be avoided, and a sense of entitlement to that growing intimacy knowing it's something their partner would be really upset about. Hurting another woman and possibly her kids to that degree is not on the table. If a man needs a divorce the man I respect and that deserves me puts on his big boy pants and gets one for that reason alone. I'm not going to let someone use me as a crowbar. I've felt like that a few times with married men at work, day after day having to work with them, sometimes alone. I just don't hang out with them alone and when we're working I don't talk about personal stuff, definitely not their romances or marriage. When a guy complains to me about his wife I know exactly what's going on, it's their first salvo into an affair. My response is "You really need to talk with her about this, she'd probably be pretty upset if she knew you were saying this to someone like me. I know I would anyway." If I don't want to say that, I'm in real trouble and need to pay attention. An emotional affair doesn't just happen, it's starts because of decisions to let it develop every step of the way. It's that justification that the romance is worth the pain and drama I think is the heart of the question. 6
bambiwboone Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I would just like to understand i guess why is it people find themselves in situations of becoming the other Man or Woman. So if anyone would like to explain what compels them to do this please share. To be specific what is it that you are trying to accomplish in a sense and are you not worried about the troubles that may happen in these situations. If you could how would you justify it. I can't speak for anyone but myself. Personally I did NOT go looking for it. It happened. I had NEVER been w/ a mm or cheated in my life. But once you out your foot into this web you get sucked in and entangled...its very difficult to get
Anne Boleyn Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I've got a pretty high number of lovers, I have nothing against love or romance. I haven't had an affair with a married man though, not for lack of opportunity or desire. The attraction always does just happen, and the spark of getting someone at a deep level that makes you both go 'aha', that just happens too. But emotional intimacy is developed. It takes revealing certain things about yourself, personal conversations that definitely can be avoided, and a sense of entitlement to that growing intimacy knowing it's something their partner would be really upset about. Yes and no... Yes, we shared things, but not things of such a nature where one or both of our partners would hear what was being said and object to it. For both of us, for the year we were in a EA only sort of situation, I was emotionally attached to him, he was emotionally attached to me, but neither of us knew the feelings were mutual. For both of us, we thought it imagined and unrequited. For both of us, we were good friends, never would we be the type to cheat, and the only feelings being risked were our own. And thinking back, I don't think there was ever a conversation we had where in the back of my mind I was thinking "my husband/his wife shouldn't be hearing this." Hurting another woman and possibly her kids to that degree is not on the table. If a man needs a divorce the man I respect and that deserves me puts on his big boy pants and gets one for that reason alone. I'm not going to let someone use me as a crowbar. Well, in our situation, neither of us were the "crowbar" either. In my marriage, neither of us were happy though neither of us had said we'd want to get divorced. When all came out, DDay happened, there was hurt, but it was quickly resolved with feelings of relief and finished with possibly the easiest divorce of all time. In his marriage, he had tried to leave numerous times already, and while it wasn't me that caused him to leave, it was the events that occurred as a result of his DDays that made him say "I need to stop trying to leave and actually leave." And neither one of us thought that an affair and the results for it was "on the table" for us either. I never thought I'd have an affair, neither did he. We were both firm in that until literally about 30 seconds before the PA happened. I've felt like that a few times with married men at work, day after day having to work with them, sometimes alone. I just don't hang out with them alone and when we're working I don't talk about personal stuff, definitely not their romances or marriage. When a guy complains to me about his wife I know exactly what's going on, it's their first salvo into an affair. My response is "You really need to talk with her about this, she'd probably be pretty upset if she knew you were saying this to someone like me. I know I would anyway." If I don't want to say that, I'm in real trouble and need to pay attention. While I admit I talked about my husband and marriage, I don't remember that he ever talked about his. Anything I knew about the condition of his marriage I got from his wife. I did mention she should probably discuss it with him, but hindsight being what it is, I knew she was telling me because she wanted me to tell him what she was saying. And by nature she's one who spills intimate details of her private life with little provocation so it's not like I solicited such information. The opposite really. After I found myself getting emotionally attached I quite genuinely didn't want to know. An emotional affair doesn't just happen, it's starts because of decisions to let it develop every step of the way. I can quite honestly say that's not the case for me. That all being said, any time I'd formed an emotional bond with anybody I was dating, it wasn't because I decided to allow it, it's because it just naturally happened. The exception being the man I married first, who I felt affection towards, who I felt there should be more there considering how well we got along, and I chose to make a go of it despite not really having the natural attraction to him. And for him, it was the same, vice versa. We both got married because we didn't want to break up and we felt after so long together (4 years), it was just kind of what people expected and we had to do. It's that justification that the romance is worth the pain and drama I think is the heart of the question. I will agree that at some point on some level we did make a conscious or subconscious choice that the pain of it all was worth dealing with for what we had, but I think that choice came after her choice to reconcile after his DDay, when we'd been covertly dating with her blessing for a few months. It wasn't that way from the beginning.
woinlove Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I would just like to understand i guess why is it people find themselves in situations of becoming the other Man or Woman. So if anyone would like to explain what compels them to do this please share. To be specific what is it that you are trying to accomplish in a sense and are you not worried about the troubles that may happen in these situations. If you could how would you justify it. Unless one is deceived by a MM/MW, it is because we, for whatever reason, were open to having an affair with a MM/MW. Most people are not open to having an affair with the spouse of a close friend, sibling or other relative - although a few are. More, but not all, are open to having an affair with the spouse of a stranger. For me, MM was working in a city away from home, I didn't know his W and he was living living on his own so there was no sneaking around. Had he been married to someone close to me, I would not have let anything develop. But I didn't feel the same barrier to someone married to a stranger. Now I feel more connected to others, and also value healthy, open and honest relationships more and would not let something develop with a MM. There may be people who just let their affair "happen" as if there was no choice involved. Perhaps they would even let them "happen" with their sister's or daughter's husband. But for most women, some MM are completely unavailable to them no matter how attractive they might find them. Other MM they do not consider off-limits. For me, the difference between considering them off-limits or not had to do with the value I placed on honesty and on my general feeling of connection to others. I was always aware that I had a choice in how I interacted with others, including MM, and never felt the relationship or A just happened. I think such language puts a distance between one's choices and oneself. If it "just happened" once, it may just happen again. Whereas if one recognizes the choices made, it won't happen again unless you choose to become involved in another A. 1
Kalee35 Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I was separated from my husband for several months and had thought I was in a really good spot. Didn't care about being in a relationship whatsoever when I met this man who became completely obsessed with me. I met his wife a couple of times along with him and I actually really liked her. I had no idea her husband had already began our affair in his head at that time. He began slowly trying to get my attention and I slowly started to notice him more and more. We messaged back and forth on friendly terms, he started to flirt more and more and eventually it progressed into him telling me all these wonderful things about myself and I ate it right up. Every last bit of it. I did feel guilty because of his wife and I know he was struggling with that as well. We had an emotional & physical affair for about 5 months or so and he eventually told his wife he was going to leave her after the end of the year. She had suspected the affair this entire time but he always denied it of course. Around the middle of December she found an email that he had sent me about starting our new life together and how much he loved me and she immediately told him she wanted him gone ASAP. He left after the following week and he didn't move in with me but we were pretty much together the entire 8 or 9 days after that continuously. We got into an argument and little did I know that any kind of argument has these guys immediately doubting their decision to leave their wife and the life they are comfortable with. That on top of all the emotional stress they are dealing with because of the change leaves a man in a very bad place. I ended up breaking up with him because I really didn't see a future with him seeing as how he wasn't acting so sure of our relationship anymore. We talked several more times over the following week about possibly trying to make it work but I eventually said this was the end and I was going to try to reconcile with my own husband. At that point I contacted his wife to apologize for my behavior and she wanted to come and speak with me. I agreed to let her and I had no idea she would ask me so many detailed questions but I felt she had the right to know and I owed it to her to tell her. The damage was already done so that was the least I could do for her. I believe they are trying to work things out now although I'm sure it's chaos in that house and I do feel horrible about that. In the end looking back I realize that the good place I had thought I was in wasn't such a good place for me. I didn't feel all that good about myself on the inside even though I had so much attention from guys always telling me how beautiful I was. I was broken inside. I clearly didn't have any self respect for myself or for their marriage to even have communicated with this guy. Another thing I realized was I wasn't nearly as attached to him as he was to me so it was much easier for me to just walk away. The simple answer as to the reason I did it was because of my sinful nature. It's something we are all born with. We are all capable of making mistakes. It's whether we choose to learn from them and not continue down a path of destruction that allows us to forgive ourselves. I start individual and couples counseling with my own husband this week which I am excited about. Through everything that happened I know one thing for sure - I will never do anything like this ever again. All the pain that I helped to cause his wife to go through is just an awful feeling to live with. It's just not worth the damage it causes everyone involved.
Kalee35 Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 If you could how would you justify it. You simply can't justify something that is wrong. You can try to convince yourself and everyone else that the behavior is justified but it simply is not. Bottom line is that marriage is a sacred thing between two people and no one has the right to intrude upon that relationship. So many people say that they didn't know that person was married in the beginning so it's different for them. It's simply not. Once you find out about the marriage you should walk away. End of story. 7
proseandpassion Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I think my outlook on marriage definitely contributed to how I justified my becoming the OW (my cynical POV: it's an outdated concept). I went into this thinking it'd be a short-lived fling, because that's how I see all relationships (fleeting). 2
ladydesigner Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 We all have rational self-interest. Some of us also have irrational self-interest. Some do not care if the other person is married. Some find it a turn on, an act of conquest. Others are racked with guilt but can't break away from the feelings they have. The smart ones, and the ones with the most self-respect, are the ones who recognize an emotional affair while it's happening and put a stop to it. Most of the time you will find that someone got too cozy with a co-worker, friend, instructor, neighbor, or some other person. They feel it "just happened". Affairs are like an addiction.. we are all susceptible to them. There's a three word rule to how affairs start: isolation - instigation - escalation. Those two people have to be alone, someone has to make the first move, and then it has to ramp up from there. Throughout all of this, there is a whole series of rationalizations, justifications and set of denials. Affairs are conspiracies. The most common one is that the MM or MW is "unhappy" in his or her marriage and is trying to meet needs outside the marriage. The affair provides a lot of stress-free fantasy moments, mutual ego-stroking ("you're so amazing", "you make me so alive", "you're an amazing lover", and .. my favorite, "you're such a good person/good husband/good father"). Despite the low's, affairs are filled with addictive highs. And that's the way you should view them. Addictions. And narcissism, which is vanity plus pride. That should explain a lot of the behavior. Great post! I was a MOW and have been a BS, but this was spot on as far as my A and my WH's A's.
skywriter Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) I think my outlook on marriage definitely contributed to how I justified my becoming the OW (my cynical POV: it's an outdated concept). I went into this thinking it'd be a short-lived fling, because that's how I see all relationships (fleeting). I believe this was where my head was at when I became involved with a MM. I had been raising my teenage children alone for five yrs, and the MM was helping my son fix a vehicle. He took him fishing, and just took a genuine interest in my son. This was the beginning of the MM and I becoming friends. Ordinarily, I'd of never given him a moments notice. The justifications, rationalisations, spoken of all come much later. It's a progression, that comes in time. Edited January 27, 2014 by skywriter 2
ladydesigner Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I think my outlook on marriage definitely contributed to how I justified my becoming the OW (my cynical POV: it's an outdated concept). I went into this thinking it'd be a short-lived fling, because that's how I see all relationships (fleeting). I need to be careful because after having seen A's my whole life, having had one myself and my WH had them, it is very difficult for me now NOT to think love is fleeting.
proseandpassion Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I need to be careful because after having seen A's my whole life, having had one myself and my WH had them, it is very difficult for me now NOT to think love is fleeting. I think it's fleeting. Still do. Always have. For most of marriage's history, it hasn't been about love. It's only become about love in the last hundred years or so. However, just because I feel this way doesn't mean I should conspire with a cheater. Because he and his wife made a vow, and I need to respect that. 3
VeronicaRoss Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 And neither one of us thought that an affair and the results for it was "on the table" for us either. I never thought I'd have an affair, neither did he. We were both firm in that until literally about 30 seconds before the PA happened. I think you're short-changing yourself and the rest of us too. You're going down that 'I had no control' road and it's just weird because everyone in their own experience knows it's not actually true, much as we'd all like a 'get out of jail free' card now and then. If what you said was true there would be a lot more dead bodies lying around from justified rage and such. Don't be giving the burqa people business, please with the 'he and I can't help it' thing! 1
Anne Boleyn Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I think you're short-changing yourself and the rest of us too. You're going down that 'I had no control' road and it's just weird because everyone in their own experience knows it's not actually true, much as we'd all like a 'get out of jail free' card now and then. If what you said was true there would be a lot more dead bodies lying around from justified rage and such. Don't be giving the burqa people business, please with the 'he and I can't help it' thing! I didn't say I had no control, I'm saying that I didn't realize I was capable of having an affair until about 30 seconds before it happened. Sure, I could have stopped thing, but I didn't. Neither of us did. But I was completely convinced until very shortly before the PA that I'd never, ever be the type to cheat.
mukkrakker Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Once you find out about the marriage you should walk away This assumes that the marriage is perfect or at least livable. Marriage should not be torture! My fidelity is based on the relationship I have with my wife (damn good), but some people on this list are living with people who don't even sleep in the same room let alone have sex (not that sex is primary reason for ending a marriage), or have no communication. Until you can get in someone's head or live their life you don't have the right to proclaim any obligation. Your belief that marriage should sustain through any tribulation is noble, but I wonder if it would truly hold through every eventuality?
acrosstheuniverse Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I did it because I felt that there would be an end-point, that we could somehow engineer the situation so we ended up together without his girlfriend ever finding out about us. The 'plan' was for us to keep seeing one another until we could move into our own little place via the university four months later, at which point he would have broken up with her, not told her about us ('so as not to hurt her') and she'd move back to their home city and we could be together. Obviously the reality was that it all ended up blowing up a lot faster and thankfully after only three months of seeing one another I ended it, I could see it was never going to happen. She found out some of the story and could have found out the whole truth if she'd wanted to but she chose to be kept in the dark. The whole thing was just ridiculous, I will never put myself in that position again. People say well, he is the one that has betrayed her, not you, but I feel I badly let her down from one human to another by sleeping with her boyfriend and keeping her in the dark. All I can say, and it's no justification, is that never before or since have I felt the kind of insane, wild, utterly intense passionate love I felt for that guy. I wanted to be with him more than anything else in the entire world and it felt like everything between us was 200% perfect chemistry, sex, compatibility... ya know, everything apart from the fact he was already taken and clearly an accomplished liar. I don't judge him for that as I proved myself I am more morally lacking than I could ever have imagined. I never cheated on anyone myself before but becoming the 'other woman' is almost as bad in my eyes. I surprised myself with what I was capable of and I'll never do it again. The whole thing was a fantasy, although looking back a year later I still believe from my part at least it was 'true love' not infatuation, and I guess if you can see that from a distance and after it's been over for months and months maybe the feelings were 'real' after all. We still have to see each other a few times a year because of university lectures but we only exchange maybe two or three functional texts a month at most these days, we're cordial as we're in the same group of friends but no more texting, emotions, talking, meeting up. I just want to get on with my life and allow him to do the same. Personally it has given me more empathy towards others who have found themselves in a similar position as I would have been the last person you could imagine ending up like that, and yet I managed to justify it to myself enough to go through with it. I find it hard to have that empathy with the cheaters themselves, but at the very least I see that love and affairs of the heart aren't quite as black and white as I believed them to be while growing up.
Recommended Posts