thecharade Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 In Infidelity forums all over the place, they debate (but try not to debate) which is easier/harder: staying M or getting D. Any opinions over here? My opinion is this: 90% of people try to reconcile, no matter what. Are you telling me 90% of people are choosing the more difficult option? Ha! Ha! I am M. There are many reasons to make my M work, and one of them is that it is just plain easier. THAT is why many affairs happen! End of story! Marriages are SO difficult and complicated to end! It's easier to stay and work. It seems like a very obvious, no brainer to me, but . . . What do the OW/OM think?
Popsicle Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I agree, it is easier to stay married, but not happier. I see TONS of people who are unhappy in their marriage, but they stay because it's easier and they remain hopeful. 1
GreySkyMorning Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 In Infidelity forums all over the place, they debate (but try not to debate) which is easier/harder: staying M or getting D. Any opinions over here? My opinion is this: 90% of people try to reconcile, no matter what. Are you telling me 90% of people are choosing the more difficult option? Ha! Ha! I am M. There are many reasons to make my M work, and one of them is that it is just plain easier. THAT is why many affairs happen! End of story! Marriages are SO difficult and complicated to end! It's easier to stay and work. It seems like a very obvious, no brainer to me, but . . . What do the OW/OM think? Having been both a MOW and a BS, it's easier to stay, much easier. For that matter, even after we separated and filed divorce, I still had so many moments of wanting to go back to the marriage that it was ridiculous. It wasn't that I wanted to really be married to the man, but the idea of starting all over, being a single mom, insecurity about money and possessions, the effects on the kids...all those things made me think that maybe it was better just to live in the half-marriage I'd grown accustomed to all those years. As miserable as it may have been, it was a misery I knew and could handle. I honestly think for a fair number of BS at the beginning, the concept of leaving plays against our sense of competition and winning. I've seen it mentioned on the infidelity boards many times, "I'm not going to let her have him!". Knowing your spouse chose to have sex with another person is an esteem killer for some people, especially thinking that the other person won him/her away from you. But if he throws the OW under the bus, even if it IS just to save his skin and protect himself, then its easier to tell yourself you're the better woman and not that maybe he's just staying so he doesn't lose his "stuff" or his reputation. 2
MissBee Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) I think the problem is that a lot of those married and cheating their marriages aren't that bad, just takes work, like anything else, so when it comes down to it, it's easier to stay as it really isn't THAT horrible to make them want to divorce and start anew. Affairs are often an escape from the mundane or from working on things and cake-eating-having your marriage intact and an exciting love affair on the side- is indeed easier for some people if they feel they can get away with it. I believe if one's marriage is genuinely horrible then leaving feels easier, but 90% of people probably reconcile, as you say, because the reality is that it isn't THAT horrible and thus the impetus to change isn't that great because it's not insufferable. I definitely think that the choice to be married and cheat resonates with certain people more than others. I get the exit affair people who are leaving anyway, but those who simply want both a marriage and an affair and say it's too hard to divorce, I think it's likely those people are more the avoidant, rug sweeping or escapist type. If your marriage is truly horrible divorce will probably seem like a better option, if it isn't and you just are bored or don't want to work on things, reconciling and staying put may be easier. It's all about one's mentality in life, that determines what choices you find appealing/easier than others. For me personally, I am the type who believes where there is a will there is a way and I try and try until I can't anymore. So for me, if my marriage is THAT bad, I would have already tried everything FIRST, not after cheating, and therefore it would be clear as day it cannot work and there is nothing to do but walk away. Staying would not be easier for me as I would be beating a dead horse that had already been beaten. But I also do get how history and simply the logistics of life make it more comfortable to stay married...but again IMO in those cases where you can even contemplate that, it means your situation isn't insufferable, as if it were, while those things would matter, your peace of mind would be a lot more appealing. Edited January 26, 2014 by MissBee 1
Anne Boleyn Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 In Infidelity forums all over the place, they debate (but try not to debate) which is easier/harder: staying M or getting D. Any opinions over here? It's like asking if it's harder to do 100 push ups or 100 pull ups. Neither is easy, but they're not the same type of hard, either. It's about the hard you choose to stick with. For me, getting the divorce was easier than making the marriage work. For the man I was having the affair with, it was harder to get the divorce than to stay. For his wife, she insisted the divorce was the easy way out and fixing it was the harder thing to do. My opinion is this: 90% of people try to reconcile, no matter what. Are you telling me 90% of people are choosing the more difficult option? Ha! Ha! Well, the 90% number is fabricated, not anything other than what you believe you observe, but even if it was accurate, people will not just choose options that are easy. People may make the choice they know is the hardest. I am M. There are many reasons to make my M work, and one of them is that it is just plain easier. THAT is why many affairs happen! End of story! Marriages are SO difficult and complicated to end! It's easier to stay and work. It seems like a very obvious, no brainer to me, but . . . But if it was easier to make a marriage work, you'd think that'd discourage affairs if the theory was people would take the easier route... Above you say that you feel people take the easiest route, and so in this case, making it work would include not doing things that could lead to divorce, thus, it'd be easier to just not have the affair. Your statements... They contradict each other. 3
Appreciate Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 90% reconcile? I bet the figure is more like 30-40%. Many waywards are not remorseful, or sufficiently remorseful for the needs of the BS. Reconciliation is extremely difficult, and not every couple can successfully reconcile. Even the ones who really put effort into it. They say it takes at least two years to start feeling normal again after an A, and there will always be lingering trust issues and the triggers.
bentleychic Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 It was easier for me to D than reconcile, but my M was abusive so that throws a kink in that whole theory, I think. (I was not in an A when I was married, ftr. Just speaking about M's in general, not necessarily involving an A.) I think whether D or R is easier is totally dependent on the M and there is no black and white answer across the board for every M. 3
ComingInHot Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Sometimes stats just don't work if you ask me* I'm not just a number! 1
bentleychic Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I have to wonder of those 90% that try to reconcile "no matter what", how many were successful in the reconciliation? How many were successful AND stayed married? How many were successful, stayed married AND both parties were happy? 1
Sub Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 How would I know if it's easier to D if I decided to R? Kind of an odd question that only seems answerable by people who hve done both. And even then, it depends on the participants. 1
ComingInHot Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 Bentley, I gotta agree and this is where the stats regarding Infidelity/A's maybe get skewed right? It comes down to the individual stitch as well as what happens/happened after the A is outed and not just immediately but years after... and how many years after? When is it the right time for "someone" to say, "okay, everything pertaining to this one incident (the A) is over and the result is __________?? Anyway, ya... 1
Got it Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I think there is a BIG difference between reconciling and just moving forward. I think a large number stay together but I would not considered it reconciled. They just moved on past the affair and in time emotions dulled. But a true reconciliation didn't happen. I also do not think people stay married because it isn't "that bad". Many will stay married, even if it pretty bad, because the unknown of the alternative seems worse or more short term effort. I think most people choose decisions based on fear factors and can be as simple as the "devil known is better than the devil unknown". I saw that with my parents. They didn't stay together because of some great love between them. They stayed because the alternative was, financially couldn't afford it, two my father feared seeing his kids, and three neither wanted to be alone. And thus a decade and a half of that mess continued until all the kids left the house. Dysfunctional people will stay with dysfunctional people and not because of some great love. On the flip side, people will choose to divorce because they can do so without addressing the issues, assume they were solely specific to the other person and end up being doomed to repeat things. So what is easier? Depends on the person and what their desired outcome is as well as the level of willingness to change muscle memory. For myself, I was done with the marriage so it wasn't about it being easier to divorce. It was about the only avenue I had any desire to follow. I had zero energy and just the though exhausted me to expel in trying to continue working on my marriage. I was done. So any obstacles to divorce were welcomed in comparison. 2
bentleychic Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 Bentley, I gotta agree and this is where the stats regarding Infidelity/A's maybe get skewed right? It comes down to the individual stitch as well as what happens/happened after the A is outed and not just immediately but years after... and how many years after? When is it the right time for "someone" to say, "okay, everything pertaining to this one incident (the A) is over and the result is __________?? Anyway, ya... Yes, there are just too many variables. It's not really a question that one person (or a group of people) could effectively answer for anyone else.
chelsea2011 Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 It depends upon the individuals involved and the type people they are. I'm not judging here just saying that it depends upon how a person values things. I don't think there is a right or wrong, just individual values and how one prioritizes them.
veryhappy Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 Look up the list of cognitive biases on Wikipedia and see how many happy to affairs and infidelity. The page for the status quo bias applies to a triangle story so well that it's not even funny. The fact that some believe their situation si so special and outside the statistics ...that's a bias as well. My exAP (before being all happily married again) used to say he was afraid he will eventually take the path of least resistance. You do that, convince yourself that's what you always wanted anyway (a bias as well). Everyone is happy and the world is just (bias as well).
Berkley Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I have to wonder of those 90% that try to reconcile "no matter what", how many were successful in the reconciliation? How many were successful AND stayed married? How many were successful, stayed married AND both parties were happy? I'd like to know where this 90% came from ? Every stat on any site I've ever seen estimates that somewhere between 30-65% of couples stay and try to work things out. That doesn't mean all of those marriages last beyond the initial attempt to reconcile, nor does it address how many of those couples ever establish a truly happy, trusting relationship. There is no happy relationship without trust. 2
EverySunset Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I think there is a BIG difference between reconciling and just moving forward. I think a large number stay together but I would not considered it reconciled. They just moved on past the affair and in time emotions dulled. But a true reconciliation didn't happen. I also do not think people stay married because it isn't "that bad". Many will stay married, even if it pretty bad, because the unknown of the alternative seems worse or more short term effort. I think most people choose decisions based on fear factors and can be as simple as the "devil known is better than the devil unknown". I saw that with my parents. They didn't stay together because of some great love between them. They stayed because the alternative was, financially couldn't afford it, two my father feared seeing his kids, and three neither wanted to be alone. And thus a decade and a half of that mess continued until all the kids left the house. Dysfunctional people will stay with dysfunctional people and not because of some great love. On the flip side, people will choose to divorce because they can do so without addressing the issues, assume they were solely specific to the other person and end up being doomed to repeat things. So what is easier? Depends on the person and what their desired outcome is as well as the level of willingness to change muscle memory. For myself, I was done with the marriage so it wasn't about it being easier to divorce. It was about the only avenue I had any desire to follow. I had zero energy and just the though exhausted me to expel in trying to continue working on my marriage. I was done. So any obstacles to divorce were welcomed in comparison. brilliant and well written
HermioneG Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I'd like to know where this 90% came from ? Every stat on any site I've ever seen estimates that somewhere between 30-65% of couples stay and try to work things out. That doesn't mean all of those marriages last beyond the initial attempt to reconcile, nor does it address how many of those couples ever establish a truly happy, trusting relationship. There is no happy relationship without trust. Five years out- I can tell you, most assuredly, that our relationship is very, very happy. And I do trust him. People who put in the work can do amazing things. It's a fallacy to assume because you ( general you, affair partner) knew the person during the worst part of their lives, when they were actively involved with you in deception, that the marriage and relationship cannot be outstanding after reconciliation. Unfortunately- in my life, affair have happened in relationships of some of my best friends as well. Two of them have recovered to a happy, loving, trusting marriage. And one has not, so they are divorcing. But when both partners really want it- it can be done.
HermioneG Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I'd like to know where this 90% came from ? Every stat on any site I've ever seen estimates that somewhere between 30-65% of couples stay and try to work things out. That doesn't mean all of those marriages last beyond the initial attempt to reconcile, nor does it address how many of those couples ever establish a truly happy, trusting relationship. There is no happy relationship without trust. In addition, I think Spark has mentioned that stay and her source on previous questions. I believe that source is Glass, based on her practice and study. I know Pittman's numbers are similar.
Author thecharade Posted January 28, 2014 Author Posted January 28, 2014 I don't remember where I read it, but yes--attempt reconciliation! That's all I meant. I do know that many Ms unravel years later. I definitely believe affairs are born of avoidance (mostly). That is based on a lot of reading. My theory is . . . constantly evolving. Sigh. What is "happy" anyway? Many of us are happy and yet 'act out,' seemingly because we are not as happy as we claim. It's like many adults don't really know themselves very well? I have a relative whose health is deteriorating. She is almost housebound, severely over weight. She is unmarried and behind on her bills. I saw her the other day, looking worse than ever, out in her pajamas, looking like she needed a shower. She said, "I know, it looks weird. I'm in my pajamas and haven't showered in a couple days. But so what! I'm happy!" Are you kidding me? She is beyond miserable. She doesn't even smile anymore. It makes me so sad. My point is that we think our marriages are making us happy when they are not, or are making us unhappy when they are not . . . People are pretty out of touch. Maybe THAT'S why people (like me) have affairs. 1
yellowmaverick Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I don't remember where I read it, but yes--attempt reconciliation! That's all I meant. I do know that many Ms unravel years later. I definitely believe affairs are born of avoidance (mostly). That is based on a lot of reading. My theory is . . . constantly evolving. Sigh. What is "happy" anyway? Many of us are happy and yet 'act out,' seemingly because we are not as happy as we claim. It's like many adults don't really know themselves very well? I have a relative whose health is deteriorating. She is almost housebound, severely over weight. She is unmarried and behind on her bills. I saw her the other day, looking worse than ever, out in her pajamas, looking like she needed a shower. She said, "I know, it looks weird. I'm in my pajamas and haven't showered in a couple days. But so what! I'm happy!" Are you kidding me? She is beyond miserable. She doesn't even smile anymore. It makes me so sad. I My point is that we think our marriages are making us happy when they are not, or are making us unhappy when they are not . . . People are pretty out of touch. Maybe THAT'S why people (like me) have affairs. People have affairs because they are always putting the responsibility of their happiness on someone else. No one person can "make" you happy. Affairs are a "happiness" addicts heroin. Happiness comes from within - it's the peace that you feel from being the person you want to be. 5
Owl Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) People have affairs because they are always putting the responsibility of their happiness on someone else. No one person can "make" you happy. Affairs are a "happiness" addicts heroin. Happiness comes from within - it's the peace that you feel from being the person you want to be. Well said. My wife (who was the one who had the affair) came to this realization as a result of our reconciliation after her EA. She put all the responsibility for her happiness on me...and when I couldn't meet that (unreasonable) expectation...it led to her EA. Our recovery and reconciliation has been quite successful, and quite real. We both learned some very painful lessons through all of this...and one of the key ones is what you stated above. If you can't be happy within yourself...you cannot 'find' happiness in a relationship. Learn to be responsible for your own happiness...and that just adds to whatever relationship you may be in. As far as staying in the marriage...my wife 'stayed' for the first month because she had nowhere else to go. Once her affair was ended, she spent about a month afterwards with me, but we were both working towards a seperation. Once I realized that the seperation was going to be a year, MINIMUM...I told her that I wasn't going to put my life on hold for that long. I'd file for divorce instead...and we'd see where we ended up. At that point...she truly made a choice to reconcile. Quite clearly, unmistakeably. And we've been doing great ever since. She has stayed since then because this is where she wants to be. Edited January 28, 2014 by Owl 2
HermioneG Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Well said. My wife (who was the one who had the affair) came to this realization as a result of our reconciliation after her EA. She put all the responsibility for her happiness on me...and when I couldn't meet that (unreasonable) expectation...it led to her EA. Our recovery and reconciliation has been quite successful, and quite real. We both learned some very painful lessons through all of this...and one of the key ones is what you stated above. If you can't be happy within yourself...you cannot 'find' happiness in a relationship. Learn to be responsible for your own happiness...and that just adds to whatever relationship you may be in. As far as staying in the marriage...my wife 'stayed' for the first month because she had nowhere else to go. Once her affair was ended, she spent about a month afterwards with me, but we were both working towards a seperation. Once I realized that the seperation was going to be a year, MINIMUM...I told her that I wasn't going to put my life on hold for that long. I'd file for divorce instead...and we'd see where we ended up. At that point...she truly made a choice to reconcile. Quite clearly, unmistakeably. And we've been doing great ever since. She has stayed since then because this is where she wants to be. Absolutely the truth. Absolutely.
KathyM Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 The figures I've read on the percentage who reconcile range between 35% to 75%, which of course, makes them meaningless statistics with that kind of range. Psychologists predominantly believe it is closer to 35%, and they are the ones dealing with couples who are trying to reconcile, so I would put some weight on their statistics. From my own observation, of the couples I've known where one of the partners was unfaithful, only one of those couples are still married to each other, and that is likely because the infidelity occurred during a period of separation, so the husband didn't feel bound to honor marital vows because he thought they would be divorcing after his wife left. They have since reconciled. As far as which is easier, both are very difficult. It's difficult to divorce if there are children to consider. It's difficult to stay married and go through the painful process of getting past the affair and rebuilding trust. It's impossible to say which is more difficult.
Fluttershy Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 When, on here, us that stay say it isn't easy it is because... It isn't easy to fully reconcile. Not for us. But I didn't choose to because it was "easy". In fact sometimes the "other" option "looked" easier to me (not saying it is but the whole grass is greener thing). Easy wasn't a part of my descision. I wanted to reconcile and be with the man I love. A man who proved daily he was so very sorry for his huge error in judgment. From his side- he felt it would have been "easier" not to confess. You had no desire to leave the marriage at any point. But he chose to take the hard path and tell me. The choice to stay when I decided to reconcile was "easy" for him but the path wasn't.
Recommended Posts