Is there another way? Q for mostly fWS

[Confused48]

I've told my fWS that, b/c of what WS did, that now sometimes I feel like I need to have sex with another person. I've told WS this and WS said go ahead, just don't tell me about it. I'm not going to do that but I see this is a very loving response and I very much appreciate it. I don't know if I could do the same if the tables were turned. However, as loving and generous as that response is, it to me illustrates that WS doesn't understand why I want to do it.

 

I'm not desiring it to even the score. Or even to get some benefit of new, exciting sex. It would be new and exciting I'm sure. But that is not why I want it.

 

I can give up having any new sex partners for the rest of my life. I want to do that, for WS and for us. I can live with an unjust "score" in the fidelity department. I can do that for WS, for us, to be able to have a normal loving relationship and family.

 

What is driving me to desire this is something else. It is the sense that WS doesn't understand my pain. That WS can't understand it till WS knows I've been with another person and that it was enjoyable. WS can imagine it but not feel it.

 

Is there another way that WS can understand my pain, other than to have the knowledge that I've been with another person? Again, I am NOT going to do that.

[96nole]

I don't think there is anyway anyone can understand someone else's pain unless they've experienced it.

ex. A man will never know the pain of child birth. No matter how many times or how detailed the explanation, he will never know. He can offer sympathy, but he will never truly know.

 

The same for a WS. They will never know or understand unless they have been a BS at some point.

 

In your case, even if you did have sex with someone else, I don't think your husband will feel the same as you did. You were surprised by it all. You had no idea about everything that was going on behind your back. Your husband on the other hand will know. (if you were to have sex with someone else) There wouldn't be the sudden shock. Especially since he gave you the go ahead.

[Sub]

I felt the same way for a while. And no, I don't think they can understand what you/we feel. Even if you did it out of revenge or some other reason, he would know you didn't enjoy it the way he did. So it would never be the same, IMO. As a happily reconciling BS, I wouldn't want my WS to understand it at this point. It's not going to help me to know she's been in the same spot. It's not going to erase it.

 

Part of how I dealt with it was knowing there were things that she felt that I wasn't going to understand either. It's the nature of the beast. I don't know the guilt she carries around with her. I just let her know that I'm not going anywhere, and we're moving forward together.

 

Honestly, I don't even think about the sexual aspect of it anymore. The great sex we've had in our 19 years together, and since her A ended, have pretty much obliterated whatever she did with the OM in my mind.

[Confused48]

I don't think there is anyway anyone can understand someone else's pain unless they've experienced it.

ex. A man will never know the pain of child birth. No matter how many times or how detailed the explanation, he will never know. He can offer sympathy, but he will never truly know.

 

Good analogy.

 

In your case, even if you did have sex with someone else, I don't think your husband will feel the same as you did. You were surprised by it all. You had no idea about everything that was going on behind your back. Your husband on the other hand will know. (if you were to have sex with someone else) There wouldn't be the sudden shock. Especially since he gave you the go ahead.

 

True no shock. But I'm over that. I'm over the lying and deceit. I'm not over the fact I shared WS physically.

[tired girl]

First, I guess I am having a problem with you seeing his response as loving, he doesn't have a problem with you getting down in the muck with him as a wayward. How is that loving?

 

Second, he is saying that he doesn't want to know about it, so doesn't that defeat the whole purpose?

 

I can tell you, due to the fact that my own M has cheating on both sides that it does nothing but make a huge ball of s@#t to deal with. It doesn't even things out or make it easier for the other to understand, you are left with not knowing which feelings should take priority, feeling betrayed or wanting to help your partner. You are constantly torn.

 

It solves nothing.

[Confused48]

First of all thanks for your input as a fWS

 

First, I guess I am having a problem with you seeing his response as loving, he doesn't have a problem with you getting down in the muck with him as a wayward. How is that loving?

 

Actually that was the first response. Asked me, why would you voluntarily put yourself into something that I'm telling you, would make you feel awful about yourself afterwords?

 

Second, he is saying that he doesn't want to know about it, so doesn't that defeat the whole purpose?

 

Yes. Absolutely.

 

I can tell you, due to the fact that my own M has cheating on both sides that it does nothing but make a huge ball of s@#t to deal with. It doesn't even things out or make it easier for the other to understand, you are left with not knowing which feelings should take priority, feeling betrayed or wanting to help your partner. You are constantly torn. It solves nothing.

 

I guess I just don't think I'd feel guilty about it if I had permission. It is all theoretical though. I'm not going to do it.

 

Can you tell me who cheated first in your M?

[AlwaysGrowing]

It wouldn't be whether or not you had "permission", I believe all waywards find/give themselves permission to proceed every step of the way anyways. You would be no different.

 

The problem would lie in the fact that YOU know what you did, and you sold yourself out. It is one thing to be the one with a knife in your back, quite another to be the one with the knife in your hand.

 

It all boils down on who we think we are. Thinking/believing are very different from being. Once we cross that internal line we become.

 

It is good that you are dissecting this, as we all possess the potential to do harm to others and ourselves.

[Fluttershy]

I will never know what it feels like to be a remorseful wayward. I'd rather be cheated on again than be the one holdin the knife. My husband will never know what being cheated on feels like but I have no desire for him to know. I did but nt enough to lower my standards.

 

I hopefully will never know what it is like to lose a child either but I can sure empathise with that. So if your husband is showing she can empathize with you the pain he caused... I think you should work on accpetinf that.

 

But if she has a "get over it" attitude or has shown no empathy... Then I can understand your struggle. Don'tgive into it of course but laybe reconsider R.

[Confused48]

The problem would lie in the fact that YOU know what you did, and you sold yourself out. It is one thing to be the one with a knife in your back, quite another to be the one with the knife in your hand.

 

It all boils down on who we think we are. Thinking/believing are very different from being. Once we cross that internal line we become.

 

 

This is very good. Gave me shivers in my spine.

[Confused48]

But if she has a "get over it" attitude or has shown no empathy... Then I can understand your struggle. Don'tgive into it of course but laybe reconsider R.

 

No, not a get over it attitude. There is empathy and even large amounts of it at times. I just need it like 100% of the time. I understand that is not possible. I have the pain 100% of the time. I just figured if WS had the pain, like I do, then WS would be able to give me empathy 100% of the time. I can see though the flaw in that.

 

I do reconsider R though. Not sure about that on a regular basis. Not bc of WS now so much as the history. I know, the saying don't let a bad day from the past ruin a good day now. That makes sense but .... it was a really bad day.

[yellowmaverick]

There is nothing that you can do that will get him to REALLY understand how betrayal feels. I think that is why BSs - even ones who R - feel lonely. There is only so much the WS can truly understand. So there is really no point in doing something that would compromise your own values.

 

The fact that he is remorseful and is willing to help you heal either will or will not be enough for you in the long run.

[veryhappy]

If you're committed to it, tell him you did without doing it, and if you want to tell him the truth don't do it for at least the length of the A. It's not the same, but it will sting. He gets the deceiving as well.

[tired girl]

My H cheated first. He had his first EA 18 yrs ago and then proceeded to do what he wanted as far as other women went for the next 18 yrs. I don't think that he ever went totally PA, but he crossed a lot of lines.

 

I had as close to permission as it gets.

 

The problem would lie in the fact that YOU know what you did, and you sold yourself out. It is one thing to be the one with a knife in your back, quite another to be the one with the knife in your hand.

 

This right here was exactly how I felt as a wayward, I betrayed everything I thought I knew about myself. The minute it started happening I knew I had made a mistake.

[compulsivedancer]

Confused, I don't think there's really anything you can do on this end. The reality for me and H was that I didn't view sex or sharing him in the same way as he did. We had talked theoretically about open marriage from fairly early on in our relationship. It was pretty clear that I was open to it, and he was scared to share me. The thought of him with another woman was always kind of a turn-on. And because I knew he loved me, I was never really concerned that he'd find someone else and replace me.

 

Now it's a little different. Whenever he talks about his "free pass," I find myself crying. I don't know if it's a change in the way I feel because I love him in a different way now, or if it's the way he talks about it.

 

Or just plain fear. It was different before, because he loved me irrationally and didn't see my flaws. He couldn't imagine life without me. Now that he knows I have flaws and has thought of life without me, and now that I've seen what an affair is like and its fallout, I'm terrified what it would do to the relationship.

 

Anyhow, the point is, she may never get it. Because even if you did the same thing, she may not experience it the same way. She may feel it in a completely different way.

 

For me, my miscarriage was one of the worst things that ever happened to me, and filled me with grief and depression, and H mostly just felt relieved. It hurt so much that he couldn't share my pain.

 

Now he knows the feeling of loss, and I wish he couldn't understand it. I wish I could take it all back and give him back the carefree life he had before.

 

You don't really want her to feel what you feel. You think you do, but there's no way to make her understand, and when she finally experiences something where she feels similarly, you'll wish you could take all her pain away.

 

Btw, as far as being with another man: For her, the sex itself was probably just sex. Probably nothing memorable. Someone in another thread called it vanilla sex covered in the chocolate syrup excitement of the affair. I know there's no way to "just get over it," but I imagine the sex itself is probably one of the LEAST important parts of the affair in her mind.

[tiredofitall2]

I've told my fWS that, b/c of what WS did, that now sometimes I feel like I need to have sex with another person. I've told WS this and WS said go ahead, just don't tell me about it. I'm not going to do that but I see this is a very loving response and I very much appreciate it. I don't know if I could do the same if the tables were turned. However, as loving and generous as that response is, it to me illustrates that WS doesn't understand why I want to do it.

 

I'm not desiring it to even the score. Or even to get some benefit of new, exciting sex. It would be new and exciting I'm sure. But that is not why I want it.

 

I can give up having any new sex partners for the rest of my life. I want to do that, for WS and for us. I can live with an unjust "score" in the fidelity department. I can do that for WS, for us, to be able to have a normal loving relationship and family.

 

What is driving me to desire this is something else. It is the sense that WS doesn't understand my pain. That WS can't understand it till WS knows I've been with another person and that it was enjoyable. WS can imagine it but not feel it.

 

Is there another way that WS can understand my pain, other than to have the knowledge that I've been with another person? Again, I am NOT going to do that.

 

My STBXW did what you are saying you would like to do and it has destroyed any possibilities of R. It caused her to be confused and to fall in her own fag as it was not initiated as a one night stand, but a full blown affair. Now, what I do know is that it will not give you much satisfaction. Because most likely will make you feel less about yourself and it still will not erase what happened. It will not change the way you feel about his perception of your pain. All it can potentially do is affect you further.

 

Even score? I think you are the one that has the upper hand if you look at it the way it really is. He failed and you didn't. You was, you were the strong one, the faithful one and the one with stronger character and higher morals.

[dichotomy]

Are you sure it would hurt you husband as much as it hurt you? Maybe this is an issue for you?

 

It is hard for me to explain this - but being cheated on (in general) would not bother my wife that much. She has explained if I cheated on her it would only hurt her in so much as she knows how much faithfulness has meant to me - so it would bother her in that way. Kind of like it would not bother her (too much) if her (generic) husband punched some guy in the face - but if she was married to Gandhi it would really bother her.

 

But here is the rub - it does not matter that much to me as it used to...and that does cause her some pain.

 

In your case - Perhaps the fact that you have changed your views or would even consider it, does make a point to your husband. His cheating has affected you in more ways than just your suffering.

Edited January 25, 2014 by dichotomy

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

I've told my fWS that, b/c of what WS did, that now sometimes I feel like I need to have sex with another person. I've told WS this and WS said go ahead, just don't tell me about it. I'm not going to do that but I see this is a very loving response and I very much appreciate it. I don't know if I could do the same if the tables were turned. However, as loving and generous as that response is, it to me illustrates that WS doesn't understand why I want to do it.

 

I'm not desiring it to even the score. Or even to get some benefit of new, exciting sex. It would be new and exciting I'm sure. But that is not why I want it.

 

I can give up having any new sex partners for the rest of my life. I want to do that, for WS and for us. I can live with an unjust "score" in the fidelity department. I can do that for WS, for us, to be able to have a normal loving relationship and family.

 

What is driving me to desire this is something else. It is the sense that WS doesn't understand my pain. That WS can't understand it till WS knows I've been with another person and that it was enjoyable. WS can imagine it but not feel it.

 

Is there another way that WS can understand my pain, other than to have the knowledge that I've been with another person? Again, I am NOT going to do that.

 

Not all betrayed husbands feel the same kind of pain. Is your pain the physical part, that she had sex with another guy, or the emotional part, that she told the other guy she loved him? You seem more focused on the physical part (which I don't think bothers her all that much, I think it would bother her much more if you "fell in love" with someone else).

 

She may be telling you it's OK for you to have the affair because she thinks of it as "just sex" and "just sex" doesn't bother her as long as she thinks you still love her and only her.

 

Anyway, the whole idea of an approved affair is not that hurtful. It's the shock of the betrayal that is the most painful, whether it is the physical betrayal or the emotional betrayal. And all of the lies that went into it, and all of the lies that come after it. That is what is most painful.

 

If you truly wanted her to feel your pain, then patch everything up, act completely reconciled for 2-3 years, just let it all fade, and then go out and cheat on her. Let her find all of your messages to another woman saying how much you love the other woman and how great the sex is with the other woman, how you've never experienced love or sex or a deep connection like that with anyone else before in your life. THEN, MAYBE, she MIGHT feel your pain. Or maybe not. Truth is, what is painful for one of us, might not be that painful for another.

 

Also, one possibility I just throw out there, not really knowing your story or how anything went down for you, but it does seem possible to me that she is telling you it's OK to have the affair because she doesn't love you as much as you love her. That is one possible explanation among many.

 

Another possibility is that she doesn't want you to have the moral high ground and figures once you have the affair, you can no longer "hold it over her head," not that you're doing that, but she may still feel that way.

 

In another respect, it might make her feel less pain from her own guilt about her own affair if she knows you had one, too. Like, "well, at least he was able to get even, so it didn't turn out that bad, after all" - kind of a mentality that as long as you both did it, it wasn't wrong. While you probably feel that you both would be wrong.

 

Anyway, this much I can tell you for certain - your affair will not equal her affair, you will not both look at them the same way, you will not both feel the exact same amount of pain.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Mickey_Fitzpatrick

[janedoe67]

I would say that unless you subscribe to the belief that you only have to act with values and character when others do, this course of action will only bring sorrow.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

My husband had an affair after my affair. He was lost and hurt and confused. I wasn't recovering as fast as he would have liked (therapist told him 2-5 years and that I think really upset him - he didn't believe it), so he was lonely. One of his employees took advantage of that because her marriage wasn't great. This affair (as far as I know) began physically about 14 months after my dday and lasted until I confronted him 8 months later.

 

Because I didn't want his situation handled in the same way mine was (publicl humiliation), I was emphatic she had to leave the office, but let her go over a period of 6 weeks so as not to cause suspicion. I was sympathetic because I understood how people get into these situations so I wanted to handle things with grace.

 

However, some of the down side is that because no one knows, she does stop by the office from time to time to "see the girls" and just recently the women of the office staff had a Christmas dinner and invited employees that used to work at the office - a picture was taken. one of the staff members sent it to my husband and xmow was in it - I saw it because I his ipad is synced with his phone and the ipad was home when the text came in - this just happened and he hasn't told me that he received the picture.

 

Revenge affairs do not help - believe me. You would think that the score would be even, but now you have two people that don't trust each other. It's a horrible way to live. There are some days I really don't know if we are going to make it.

Other days it is okay and I think we are.

 

I would personally caution anyone to make this choice. It does not help recovery at all.

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

My husband had an affair after my affair. He was lost and hurt and confused. I wasn't recovering as fast as he would have liked (therapist told him 2-5 years and that I think really upset him - he didn't believe it), so he was lonely. One of his employees took advantage of that because her marriage wasn't great. This affair (as far as I know) began physically about 14 months after my dday and lasted until I confronted him 8 months later.

 

Because I didn't want his situation handled in the same way mine was (publicl humiliation), I was emphatic she had to leave the office, but let her go over a period of 6 weeks so as not to cause suspicion. I was sympathetic because I understood how people get into these situations so I wanted to handle things with grace.

 

However, some of the down side is that because no one knows, she does stop by the office from time to time to "see the girls" and just recently the women of the office staff had a Christmas dinner and invited employees that used to work at the office - a picture was taken. one of the staff members sent it to my husband and xmow was in it - I saw it because I his ipad is synced with his phone and the ipad was home when the text came in - this just happened and he hasn't told me that he received the picture.

 

Revenge affairs do not help - believe me. You would think that the score would be even, but now you have two people that don't trust each other. It's a horrible way to live. There are some days I really don't know if we are going to make it.

Other days it is okay and I think we are.

 

I would personally caution anyone to make this choice. It does not help recovery at all.

 

I agree that revenge affairs do not help. I am curious, however, what your husband thinks, since your husband actually did what this poster is speculating about.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I agree that revenge affairs do not help. I am curious, however, what your husband thinks, since your husband actually did what this poster is speculating about.

 

According to how he responded after I confronted him and how he felt about himself afterwards, no. I would hold him and tell him "honey, I know you were hurting. You are still a good man". And he would say "I was a good man".

 

I think now, because there is still the strong possibility that it could all come out at some point, that really bothers him. He is living with a time bomb because his xmow's husband does not know. There might come a time when he finds out somehow, who knows? And then it starts all over again. My husband is a very high profile businessman in our town and very well thought of. I think it would probably very much disappoint his business partners and he can't fathom what it might do to his parents. There would probably be some people that would say he was justified in having an affair since I did.

 

I would say he didn't think it was worth it. An employee had to leave a job she loved and friends she was with every day. He does feel badly that he hurt her - I know that.

 

I don't know - these are so messy.

 

Has BH weighed in yet? He had a revenge affair and I know has some wisdom wonderful wisdom to give on the matter. I think he would tell you it was not worth it.

[underpants]

Here is a thought.

 

Get a second phone and have an affair with yourself. Work late, be less available and plant the seeds of doubt. Eventually let your ws find the texts on your phone from (your alter ego).

 

That way you can get your point across and not drag other people into your relationship issues.

[Confused48]

Omg. It's killing me that I can't chime in. I'm with family and can't be seen reading LS. I will say quick that I know it's a bad idea. I'm hoping there is something else.

[Confused48]

Are you sure it would hurt you husband as much as it hurt you? Maybe this is an issue for you?

 

You and Mickey raised this issue. I'm sure it would. WS has pain and terror in the eyes when we talk about this option. All during our relationship, preA, postA, WS can't stand me looking at or talking about someone of the opposite sex as being attractive. WS would be possibly even more hurt than I was by this.

 

Which is another good reason why I can't. As one poster said, we don't want to inflict pain like that.

 

Talking with WS about it today, WS agreed that WS would tell me about pain WS already has. Not hide it to protect me. I think that will help as a big part of why I want to do this is it seems WS doesn't feel pain, to the degree that I do, over the choice to have an A. If I hear more about WS pain, from my WS or others here on LS it makes me feel like, of course no, I don't need to cause more pain for my WS.

 

Anyway, the whole idea of

 

If you truly wanted her to feel your pain, then patch everything up, act completely reconciled for 2-3 years, just let it all fade, and then go out and cheat on her. Let her find all of your messages to another woman saying how much you love the other woman and how great the sex is with the other woman, how you've never experienced love or sex or a deep connection like that with anyone else before in your life. THEN, MAYBE, she MIGHT feel your pain. Or maybe not. Truth is, what is painful for one of us, might not be that painful for another.

 

 

This and the one about faking having an affair, lol. Like really down the rabbit hole stuff. I love it. Part of me wishes I could do this.