Questions about relationship with separated man

[FitChick]

Never date anyone divorced less than two years if you want a serious relationship.

[jussie]

I'm not sure if anyone is going to see this post, considering how long it's been, but I'm posting anyways...

 

I decided to continue dating this separated guy, and for the most part it's been fine. But now that Valentine's Day is coming up, it's creating some problems that I don't think should even be there.

 

A couple weeks ago, I realized that 1) he would have his son for Valentine's Day, and 2) Valentine's Day weekend is also President's Day weekend. Ideally, I was hoping that he would ask his ex to take his son for the weekend and we could go off and do something romantic. But when I had the conversation with him a couple weeks ago, he hemmed and hawed and seemed to give several excuses, the main one being that he would feel guilty going off to have fun when he should be spending time with his son (even though his ex has already done the same thing several times when she's gone on weeklong vacations with girlfriends).

 

I get the feeling that he is using his son as an excuse and the real reason is that for some reason he's not comfortable going on a romantic trip with me, either because he's not over his ex/divorce or because "he's just not that into me." Anyways, I brought up the topic a few days ago when we were at a restaurant for dinner, and it turns out that his ex actually offered to take their son off his hands Sunday night, which means we could do something together Sunday night and Monday, though he was suspicious of her motives for offering that. I asked if he gets Monday off (he works in the private sector), and he said no, but that he would ask for the day off (more on this soon).

 

I was happy with these answers, and thought that it was pretty much solid that he would plan something special for us for Sunday/Monday. However, this morning, I texted him to ask if he has requested Monday off yet, and I've received no answer. I'm beginning to think that he only gave me these answers to appease me and get me off his back, and now he's avoiding me. My question regarding this topic is, after 2 months of dating, is it too much/selfish for me to expect him to have something special planned for us for Valentine's Day, or that I wanted us to take a romantic getaway trip together?

 

Some of my friends have said that I shouldn't put so much pressure on him and that I should just go with the flow, and if nothing happens, it's not a big deal because it's just a stupid holiday. But I asked him how he feels about the holiday, and his answer shocked me: he said he thinks the holiday is fine, and that the people who hate it are just the ones who don't have anyone to celebrate with. So now I know it's not the holiday, which makes me think that his lack of planning is due to me.

 

Also, he hasn't told his parents about me. I really have very little experience with this type of situation, the courtesies involved, or anything like that. I asked if his parents would be shocked to hear that he's seeing someone, and he says no (he could totally be lying, of course), so I don't really understand why he won't tell them about us. Is it because he's still technically married? I also don't know if he's told them that she is seeing someone new. But I have told both my parents that I'm seeing someone (they don't know the details that he is separated, going through a divorce, has a 3-year-old, and is 11 years older than me). And I feel that he should do the same, so I can know that this relationship is real.

 

Futhermore, I haven't met any of his friends, though he's met several of mine. He claims he's told a few friends about me, and some of them found out through his ex after he accidentally sent her a photo of us. But he hasn't offered to introduce me to any of them. When I ask about meeting them, he says that there aren't many opportunities because he usually socializes when 1) the guys go out, and I wouldn't be invited bc they gripe about their wives during that time, and 2) during playdates, which I can't come to because I haven't met his son yet. He said that his friends (who are all married with small kids) usually don't go out without their kids, and if they do, they usually just want a date night to themselves rather than a double/triple date.

 

He also never offered to CREATE an opportunity, like inviting a couple out, to introduce me to them, and this also makes me concerned. The last time we discussed this (about a week ago), he put forth the idea of introducing me to his son first so that I can meet his friends at playdates. He didn't give a timeline for this to happen, but said "in a few months," and added that when the weather gets warmer there are backyard cookouts and picnics and it would be easier to get together then. I am wondering if this is just a stalling tactic to stave off more questions for the next few months.

 

One of my friends who I've discussed all these issues with thinks that I am being way too pushy about it, that it's still early days and I need to just chill out and go with the flow. She pointed out that I often push and push and plan and plan, to the point that men get annoyed and just can't deal with it anymore so they dump me. I feel that, as a friend, she knows me well and makes a very good observation, but because this situation is so complicated, I wonder if she is missing the nuances. It's hard to let things go with the flow when there are confounding factors, like him being separated and possibly being emotionally unavailable.

 

Mainly, I'm having a hard time figuring out if he is serious about me, or if he just wants someone to help him be less lonely and get through his divorce proceedings.

Edited February 10, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[carhill]

Some of my friends have said that I shouldn't put so much pressure on him and that I should just go with the flow, and if nothing happens, it's not a big deal because it's just a stupid holiday.

I don't think the holiday is 'stupid' but generally would concur with your friends about the pressure thing. Dating is supposed to be fun and not a dynamic where one party or the other feels obligated or ostensibly ashamed if they don't perform. Of course, you have reasonable expectations and boundaries too. That's how the process works; if yours and his match up, then the interaction continues. If not, it ends

But I asked him how he feels about the holiday, and his answer shocked me: he said he thinks the holiday is fine, and that the people who hate it are just the ones who don't have anyone to celebrate with. So now I know it's not the holiday, which makes me think that his lack of planning is due to me.

 

His feelings about the holiday and priority about spending it with you are apparently compartmentalized *or* he was aiming a talking point at your friends. My cynical side would opine it may be to undermine the credibility of other advice they may be giving you, which typically is not to date a separated or divorcing man, which you also received in this thread. MM's will do that.

 

One of my friends who I've discussed all these issues with thinks that I am being way too pushy about it, that it's still early days and I need to just chill out and go with the flow. She pointed out that I often push and push and plan and plan, to the point that men get annoyed and just can't deal with it anymore so they dump me. I feel that, as a friend, she knows me well and makes a very good observation, but because this situation is so complicated, I wonder if she is missing the nuances. It's hard to let things go with the flow when there are confounding factors, like him being separated and possibly being emotionally unavailable.

 

This sounds like a valued and valuable friend. To the extent these details are ruminated upon in your mind, she may have a point, not necessarily about 'pushing and pushing', but rather the impacts on your psyche from constant analysis.

 

Mainly, I'm having a hard time figuring out if he is serious about me, or if he just wants someone to help him be less lonely and get through his divorce proceedings.

 

If he's there at the end holding your hand looking into your eyes as you pass from this mortal coil, he surely was serious about you. In between, the results are really unknown. IMO, take each day as it comes, respecting what you want for your own life. If this interaction fits in, OK. If not, not. You have complete control of your own expectations, boundaries and behaviors. That's the essence of freedom. Revel in it. Good luck.

[Sunfire73]

There is no good in dating a separated man if you're looking for a serious relationship. That is not his priority. And yes you are only there so he won't be lonely when trying to finalize his divorce. You should be dating others so you would know who is more compatible with your relationship goals.

[jussie]

His feelings about the holiday and priority about spending it with you are apparently compartmentalized *or* he was aiming a talking point at your friends. My cynical side would opine it may be to undermine the credibility of other advice they may be giving you, which typically is not to date a separated or divorcing man, which you also received in this thread. MM's will do that.

 

To clarify, my boyfriend doesn't know what my friends have said to me, so there was no "aiming at my friends."

[GoreSP]

But a couple days ago, we had a serious discussion about today's meeting in which he revealed to me that he has been dragging his feet about preparing for the meeting, procrastinating, and basically trying not to think about it, because he doesn't want to agree to the divorce and ruin his son's life.

 

I didn't read the whole post, but this line jumped to my face.

 

On on earth can he believe a divorce will ruin his son's life and not separation?

 

This is shady right there...

[jussie]

I didn't read the whole post, but this line jumped to my face.

 

On on earth can he believe a divorce will ruin his son's life and not separation?

 

This is shady right there...

 

It would help to read the whole post. His ex basically threatened him if he didn't move out (i.e. separate), so he finally moved out last July. And before that, she tricked him into starting separation proceedings by saying that they were meeting a lawyer just for a "trial separation." Before then, he had been refusing to go with her to see a lawyer and actually separate, much less get a divorce.

 

As for his son, he is worried that the long-term consequences will affect his son - that they will no longer have family vacations, that he only gets half the time to spend with each parent, and all the other negative child development things that come with having divorced parents.

[HappyLove]

I think you are so desperate to have a man that no matter how many red flags slap you in the face you will continue to ignore them.

[MidwestUSA]

I'm not sure how many more clues you need to confirm that you're just helping him pass the time.

 

If he wanted to be with you, he'd make the time. I agree with your friend who says you're being 'pushy'. This guy doesn't know it yet, but he's going to need some time alone to process the divorce and adjust to single life again.

 

A prior poster here (male) mentioned dating during his divorce, and stated that he eventually ended it because it was 'wrong'. As a woman who dated too soon after my divorce, I concur. I don't know it at the time, of course. I thought I was good to go. Nothing could have been further from the truth. Best of luck to you.

[MidwestUSA]

It would help to read the whole post. His ex basically threatened him if he didn't move out (i.e. separate), so he finally moved out last July. And before that, she tricked him into starting separation proceedings by saying that they were meeting a lawyer just for a "trial separation." Before then, he had been refusing to go with her to see a lawyer and actually separate, much less get a divorce.

 

 

You can bet he's still not accepted the fact that he is going to end up divorced (if it goes through). Reread your initial posts where you mention his torch for the wife still. Why are you accepting such sloppy seconds?

[Poppygoodwill]

It would help to read the whole post. His ex basically threatened him if he didn't move out (i.e. separate), so he finally moved out last July. And before that, she tricked him into starting separation proceedings by saying that they were meeting a lawyer just for a "trial separation." Before then, he had been refusing to go with her to see a lawyer and actually separate, much less get a divorce.

 

 

See, this is hte problem you have and that he's sending mixed signals about....he is separated, but he didn't want the separation, let alone the divorce. She did. He's being forced into it. So that's why he's so sensitive and defensive. He may hope to get back with her, he may be dragging his feet while he gets used to the idea. But sure as heck he is in an emotional mess and you would be well advised to step back lest you get splattered even more with the fallout.

 

He's not skipping to divorce court; he's being dragged. This is not going to end the way you hope for yourself. YOu've made a tiny investment, time wise. Move on, find a guy who is more available and really ready to be in a LTR with you.

[carhill]

To clarify, my boyfriend doesn't know what my friends have said to me, so there was no "aiming at my friends."

No, he doesn't know for sure, but people are perceptive and most married men are aware of societal opinions about dating separated men, also covered in this thread. What such interactions serve to do is leverage attraction to perception and introduction of doubt. Where did I learn this from? Repeated interactions with MW's over the decades. I view it kind of like a skilled cowboy or cattle dog 'cutting' a steer out of the herd, terms applicable to my lifestyle and experience. It takes skill to weaken the herd (friend) bonding.

 

Again, this a cynical viewpoint borne of decades of experience with people who have had relationships while 'separated'. It may not apply to your gentleman at all. However, discrete actions can form patterns over time, just like in any other relationship dynamic as one 'gets to know' a person. Each individual act/word, by itself, can seem innocuous. It's time and the pattern of those words and actions which reveals the truth.

 

My read is that you're in this and staying in it. That's a valid choice. Hence, my words are merely throwing out the canaries I've seen in my lifetime. Things will work out one way or another.

[FitChick]

I predict the OP will come back in the future under a different name and complain about this man again.

[jussie]

I predict the OP will come back in the future under a different name and complain about this man again.

 

I'm not using a different name, but I am back to say that "this man" dumped me last night. I do agree with most of the people who posted to this thread that I should have left earlier. I just didn't want to believe the stereotype about people who are separated - that they shouldn't be dating and if they are they're being selfish and aren't really emotionally available, and probably don't know that they aren't emotionally available. Things started out really great with him, and then started falling apart. I admit a large part of the problem was me being too needy. But another large part of the problem was that he didn't know himself (probably because he's been avoiding thinking about how he feels about the divorce) and thought he wanted something he couldn't actually give.

 

Thanks to all the people who tried to give me this exact advice. It was harsh and I felt hurt reading some of the comments, but maybe I deserved it.

Edited February 25, 2014 by jussie
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[Tayken]

I'm not using a different name, but I am back to say that "this man" dumped me last night. I do agree with most of the people who posted to this thread that I should have left earlier. I just didn't want to believe the stereotype about people who are separated - that they shouldn't be dating and if they are they're being selfish and aren't really emotionally available, and probably don't know that they aren't emotionally available. Things started out really great with him, and then started falling apart. I admit a large part of the problem was me being too needy. But another large part of the problem was that he didn't know himself (probably because he's been avoiding thinking about how he feels about the divorce) and thought he wanted something he couldn't actually give.

 

Thanks to all the people who tried to give me this exact advice. It was harsh and I felt hurt reading some of the comments, but maybe I deserved it.

 

 

I don't know about you.....but I from a younger age (thanks to my Ma),was made to be aware of criticism. You are not always going to be told what you are expecting to hear...you learn more from your mistakes in life than you do from success

 

Some people get their knickers in a twist when people don't tell them what they want to hear, and we all know misery loves company so they are more likely to lean towards people agreeing with their stance.

 

I have always been the ....give it to me straight kind of person, don't sugar coat the damn thing