Anyone ever resumed an affair?

[Gunthar]

I'm looking for some validation of my perspective and a little hope, from someone with the same/similar experience. So, if you are married and having or have had an affair with another married person, with a story similar to mine, please read and comment. If you're 'a relationship expert' or do-gooder with pointed questions for me that are supposed to laser in on me and convict or give me pause... save it.

 

I'm 45. I was 100% faithful to my wife (now of 20 years) who is 42. She betrayed me (first), and grossly so (multiple random men one summer). Then another string (2 guys) the next summer. Some other non-sexual but romantic sorts of encounters in between. I can't/won't break up my family so I'm at home faking it in some regard (we have love for each other and do everything we should), but now I'm missing someone in all of my spare time. My wife is saying she's done with all of that, but shows signs she never will be, really.

 

In the middle of my wife's 'round 2', I met a woman our age (whose kids are at our kids' school also) who I thought might be the one I'd go off and do the same with. But she wasn't interested in me. I did start a dialog with her about some of my story though (my wife's betrayals), trying to figure out through her if/when the litany of betrayals and pretending to be single would stop so I could have my sane/faithful non-attention-seeking wife back. The friend and I had established that we had been through a lot of crap in our marriages. But she still had her side bf and wasn't really any help since she was in full swing and not stopping.

 

I find out this woman's 'wingman' (her bff), a beautiful, professional, and married All-American mom also at our school, knows my story soon after and she's very empathetic with me, wonders how I deal with it, if I have a 'special friend', etc. I hadn't wavered at all. I was just open about it all and wanting the bad dream to stop. My wife had just confessed an encounter with her long-term addiction/guy, and well, this married-mom from school propositions me in the sweetest empathetic way, saying she (we) can't get everything from our respective relationships and that we could be that missing piece for each other. I went with it.

 

Fun, flirty. Nothing physical, just texting and anticipation. Wife and I were invited to a few parties since we knew each other casually through school. Wife suspected nothing. Eventually, my friend and her friend create a way for us to be together one afternoon. Clothes on, but so so hot for us both. Then, they made another arrangement for us to be together for a good part of a night (their husbands went out of town for the weekend for different reasons), but I couldn't stay all night.

 

Soon after my wife somehow suspect something went on that night (there was no evidence). This turns into a back and forth between my special friend and my wife that results in a story being told to my wife that makes me look like I just came on to my friend one night and she rejected me. And, because my friend can't be discovered and now my wife has got her completely on RADAR, she had to end it to preserve herself and her family situation.

 

So now, this is the deal. She wants 'no contact'. Means no calls, no text. nothing. It's been super hard and I've broken that rule a couple of times, but I'm doing well. BUT, she waves to me at school and gives me the big beautiful smile when we pass each other. I see her at the gym on rare occasions and she says hi and engages in chit chat. She came by to talk with me at a fall school event. Yet, if I text, she tells her friend "wtf does he want?"

 

So, what does no contact REALLY mean, if she comes by and talks with me in social settings?? She said she couldn't have me in her life anymore, yet, she initiates at times...

 

I want her. I want her in my life. I know we were on our way to creating something long term that you only hear about in books. So, I'm wondering who out there has been through anything remotely similar...

 

Thanks.

 

G

[TaylorLane]

Hey G,

 

 

So I'm not the one that could give you much feedback to this but in time other members on here will probably have more insight into your situation than me.

 

 

From what it sounds like, by initiating contact in social settings and only social settings it seems like it's kinda her way of playing it cordial and nice and not leaving room for any negative tension, while still wanting the no contact otherwise. Plus it's a "safe zone" environment, where she knows "saying hello" can't or won't go any further.

I kinda get it, and that's how it would make sense to me, but that is just my opinion.

 

 

What do you mean when you say you don't want to break up the family?

Like by leaving, separating, divorcing, etc? It sounds like you may have a great friendship and may be able to co-parent and co-exist but is that what a marriage is suppose to be?

 

 

I'm just trying to understand; from my perspective...

I grew up in a house where my parents were always arguing, and there was always obvious tension even without anything verbally said, separate sleeping quarters, etc..

It doesn't matter how much people think they can hide their unhappiness from their kids, kids are smart and they know.

I often wondered if there could have been a much healthier environment growing up. You hear opinions from people/kids who's parents have divorced, but the other side of it is no fun either. The "staying together for the kids" routine can leave just as harsh emotional scars.

Again, that's just my opinion, from a former kid who experienced the other side.

 

 

[MissBee]

I haven't been in this situation, but people have resumed their affairs in the case of ddays where they go underground; but, it seems like this woman is serious about NC and only talks to you cordially in public but otherwise isn't interested. If you text and she ignores it and asks her friend "wtf does he want?!" it's pretty safe to say that she isn't happy about the contact and it's not a case where she'd dying to resume anything.

 

I agree with the poster who says she is being cordial in public so as not to make things look bad; but usually when someone wants to resume they will be glad to reply to text messages as well, yet she seems to react angrily to your texts. Nothing is making it seem like she wants to resume this. Also, people tend to resume the affair it seems when they had more of a relationship and when the A had been going on for a while and lots more is invested, whereas it seems like stuff was pretty casual between you two and it wasn't a deeply invested affair where it is harder to detach.

[almond]

Your post indicates that you are longing for more than what you will get from an affair arrangement. You will attach more than they will, and end up getting hurt. An affair partner cannot fill the void in your life - you will continue to feel empty, until you put in the work to change your situation and fill it yourself.

 

You will not be able to be happy or healthy unless you either sort out your marriage (if that is even possible at this point), or leave your wife.

 

Divorce is always an option. You can successfully co-parent your children and live happy lives. A happy and healthy father is a good father. The fact that you will not even consider this under the circumstances leads me to believe that you are scared, and not just for your children.

 

Think long and hard about the situation you're in, and the toll it has had on you. It will be incredibly taxing, and will only continue to wear you down. You have a lot of life ahead of you, and choosing this path equates to a pretty bleak and miserable future in my opinion.

 

Therapy might be of use to you. Good luck.

[MissTakes]

Hi G. Sounds like you're in a really tough place. I'm so sorry for all that you've been through, and I hope it gets better for you from here on out.

 

Your "special friend's" behavior sounds very, very similar to how I behave with my xAP. I want to remain NC with him, but in social situations where I know I will see him, in order to keep what happened between us as under the radar as possible, I'm cordial to him. People know us to be friends, so it would be more conspicuous if I were unfriendly to him.

 

Beyond that, the honest truth is that I do miss him, and I wish that I could talk to him. That said, because I know that contact with him is not healthy for me or productive towards my goals for my future, I would react the same way as your friend does if he tried to contact me. Yes, we women can be complicated creatures. It sounds to me like she misses you, but has decided that she needs to focus on moving on. When she sees you, she misses you more, and you pick up on that a bit. But when you're not around, she's able to remain true to her initial plan of NC.

[RickFox]

I've been in a somewhat similar situation. It means walk away from her, don't look back, and leave her be. What you had is over, she's not willing to risk it while being on your wife's radar. If you're confused now, it will be ten times worse when and if things resume and she cuts you out again to save her own rear. Walk away with dignity

[hippetyhop]

My xMM and I have been up and down. We started our A Oct. 12, then in June/July, his BS was given information about something that "came back to bite him" and that put us underground. I was scared, he was paranoid, so I ended it in July. In October of this year, he emailed me wanting to talk, etc. We resumed where we left off, but this time he guard was up more (best way to put it) and he wasn't the same. Granted, it would initiate conversation, hold conversation, it wasn't one sided, etc., but he wasn't the same guy. He was very hot and cold. One day we'd be joking around, the next day he was "blah". I knew he had a lot on his plate with work and whatnot.

 

About a week ago, he told me "as of right now, I need you as a friend more than anything, its not as intense by his design, everything else will fall into place, what will be will be, and this isn't the end." I'm not holding my breath, but at the same time, he wants space, so I'm definitely giving it to him.

 

He told me that he has to play it safe (no bad texts, etc) bc of his BS. A few weeks ago, we were supposed to get together for a legit lunch, but he had to cancel as he was afraid his BS would drive past his work and not see him there. I think that might explain some.

 

I'm not sure whats going on with him.

 

Read the board and the threads. There are people here who've had up and downs similar, and quite different for YEARS.

 

My advice is: give her the space. Just be cordial and respect her wishes. I know its hard concept as you want to talk to her, be there for her, etc., but sometimes its whats needed. A's can be very complicated and very draining. Sometimes you have to just take a step back, take a breather, and what will be will be.

[Gunthar]

Sincerely, thanks to you all who responded so thoughtfully. MissTakes and hippetyhop, I could probably listen to you all day.

 

So, you'll probably all gasp, but it 'ended' (really, got ripped from us) about 1 year ago. Yes, not letting it go. I don't marginalize who we wanted the other person to be. I was told it could have gone on for a long time. So I'll find a way. It's just bad timing/circumstances now (may always be, and so it may never happen). What's been nice is that her friend (the woman I originally started talking with) and I are friends, in regular contact, and in very similar positions (her bf, a mm also, had to distance himself b/c she and he were discovered by her husband - she still wants to see her om). So we get to connect about the whole distance thing, bounce back and forth about why they need space and the risks in all of this, etc. etc., while she protects her friendship with my special friend (I don't get much of anything out of her about my friend).

 

Friend knows I want to resume with special friend, and is totally sympathetic with both sides, but when I push too hard I get put in my place (rightfully so).

 

What gets me is how wife can be so supremely reckless in her antics. We had only ever been with each other, and off she goes. She had to get tested after each 'round', and didn't even consider it needed, even after she told me the times her encounters when unprotected!!!! I made her go obviously- if she was clean I knew I was. And yet, I have one totally benign incident (she believes I just tried to kiss my friend when I was drunk and I got rejected), and somehow EVERY thing I do is suspect/questioned. I know she's looking for payback. If I thought her betrayals were about me, and not about her, I might conduct myself that way. But my wife is just whacked. Sick, really. And she's the mother of our 3 kids; kids who will have an intact family (I know personally what divorce does) that figures out forgiveness and how to overcome the kinds of stupid/insane decisions we make to hurt each other.

 

And all this while I miss my friend who started something special with me, but felt she had to end it prematurely. Waddya gonna do? I've been disappointed most of my marriage, so I can exist here. Don't want to, but I keep it special, so I treat it special. We'll see what happens.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Gunthar

[Got it]

Because jumping on anything you do helps her minimize and sweep away anything she has done. You know the saying "best defense is a good offense", think that applies here.

 

My husband's first wife had an affair. He just happened to find out a few years later and was blamed for it (he was working all the time because of 9/11, etc.) and told that it is over, basically get over it. There was no therapy, no reading of books, etc. So he grieved it on his own and left went on for about a year. He wanted to divorce but was waiting for his kids to grow up.

 

Our affair started and we were in it for a year. He was leaving but struggled because of the kids. He did little to hide it because, one I think he wanted to get caught,and two really didnt' think she would care that much. I warned him that based on her not leaving after her affair, but not truly reconciling with him, she was there for other reason - lifestyle, comfort, kids, etc. but would not take kindly to finding out about us.

 

Well dday happens, and I was right and he was shocked. Suddenly not only did her affair not count it started being minimized, over time, no longer existed! Suddenly his affair, him "leaving her and the kids", etc. was the only focus and when he would bring up her affair she would say, what affair? Anyway they have obviously divorced but the attitude hasn't changed. Everything is his fault. He was supposed to take care of her the rest of her life and him leaving blew that up.

 

So rewriting of history works in many manners and not surprised by your wife's behavior. Have you thought about having an open marriage? You guys would be discreet.

 

Sorry, sounds like a miserable marriage to have just for the kids. My parents stayed for the kids and I can tell you the kids rejoiced when they finally married. I struggle seeing divorce that much worse than living in the house with the two of them.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Gunthar]

Thank you for your story and thoughts, Got_it.

 

There is of course so much more to my story in terms of how she represents things now: increasingly less significant (surprise). But at the same time, she has totally sobbed about it and regrets it (there's a lot of shame for how utterly reckless she was); how she wanted the attention, crumbling each time I've caught her. She finally hung it all up end of this last May. BUT, she had come home Jan 1, 2013 (I had 'excused her' to her parents' prior, to go figure out what she wants, after I found out about 'round 2'). I find out at the beginning of this last June, after she had been home already for 6 months ('for good' reportedly) , that she was seeing the same guy (admitted to about 8 sexual encounters over the 6 months she had been back home while I was out of town working!! ). Just this last October (3 months after her last time with him - end of May), she was saying how it was 'so long ago'!!! WTF?! Right? What I am putting up for my 'ideal/intact' family. I know I know. But my kids and wife think I'm a hero for hanging in there. Anyway...

 

What I wish I had an answer to is this. I told my special friend EVERYTHING. Withheld virtually nothing about me. I even told her the worst (that I won't get into here), before her proposition. She NEVER gave me any of her story, good or bad. Why would she not tell me about her? Maybe I needed to ask (duh)? I just projected myself perhaps, thinking she'd spill her guts like I did to her and her friend.

 

Although, we both agreed we weren't leaving our families. It was intended that we'd stay in our families and just be there for each other, be that spark. So, she (and I) figured we'd have a nice time figuring that out along the way, I guess?

 

Ugh. Thanks for your story and thoughts, again.

 

G

Edited January 23, 2014 by Gunthar

[Gunthar]

bump (hoping for some additional comments from someone, maybe an xMM who stuck it out during a long NC period where she felt it was over but changed her mind later). Call me crazy...

Edited February 5, 2014 by Gunthar

[Leelou]

I'm in my forties. I was 100% faithful to my husband for over 20 years (he was the only man I'd ever had sex with). He betrayed me first, by having several affairs over our 27 year marriage (that I know of, I stopped prying into his affairs 6 years ago).

 

6 years ago, after I found out about the eighth affair woman, who he had been seeing over a two year period and was the first woman he was 'in love' with, I told him straight that I reserved the right to have an affair of my own.

 

And I met a really beautiful man who I thought would be the one I'd go off with and have my affair with. And I did. After about two years (a good enough period of time to 'balance' out my husband's crimes) I informed my husband of my affair by text message, but my husband laughed it off and said that guy WISHED he had me! So, I didn't press him to MAKE him believe me. Carried on seeing Mr. Beautiful for another year. Then my MM started acting weird and getting distant so I backed off him for almost a year. I wasn't sleeping with my husband either. I kept myself to myself.

 

MM pursued me until he got me back, we were together another year and then MM started blowing hot/cold and acting like a jerk, so I ended it. MM has been trying to get back with me now for well over a year, but I don't allow him to see me. He only texts me, and I brush him off, tell him 'no' and keep my distance.

 

When it's over, it's over.

 

Go find someone else.

 

I know I can! I have had many guys ask me out and I flatly refuse. Even my personal trainer had a 'thing' for me... but he was married, so I told him shame on him. Several guys in the gym would go ask my personal trainer who I was, and he would outright tell them, "She's married!".

 

So I am biding my time. When I finish my graduate degree in six months time, get a great job, and have my own income to take care of all my costs, I will divorce and start dating.

 

Until then, I don't screw around. I know how to say 'no' to a man - whether it's my exMM, or my H.

 

When a partner does not fulfill a healthy need, you should not go with them! In your case, your wife and your 'special friend' do not fulfill any healthy need of yours.

You truly need to re-evaluate your life.

Of course I understand if you are staying for the kid's sake (that's what most of the reason was in my case... that, and I still loved my husband), then go ahead and do so.

 

But in that case, wait out the years, and then go find yourself a special person, that you can truly love and truly be together with.

 

Affairs only help to keep a marriage limping along....

Edited February 5, 2014 by Leelou

[MissTakes]

But my wife is just whacked. Sick, really. And she's the mother of our 3 kids; kids who will have an intact family (I know personally what divorce does) that figures out forgiveness and how to overcome the kinds of stupid/insane decisions we make to hurt each other.

 

G, kids know when something is wrong. Divorce is absolutely terrible, but growing up in a household where parents are bordering on emotionally abusive / manipulative towards each other - which is what it sounds like is going on - can be far more damaging in the long run. That doesn't necessarily mean divorce is the right answer, but it certainly means that if you and your W can't manage to demonstrate a healthy relationship for your kids, you need to re-evaluate how you're going about parenting. That sounds harsh, but I don't mean it as a criticism of you! Just an observation of the situation - something to keep in mind.

 

I'm glad you have a friend who knows both you and your "special friend" and can be an open ear if not an intermediary between the two of you. And I'm glad you recognize that it is in no way her job to be an intermediary! If (okay, when) my MM asks my friends about me, he gets resounding stony, silent stares. As it should be.

 

Of course, I'm back in contact with my MM. So, there's that.

[Gunthar]

.."But in that case, wait out the years, and then go find yourself a special person, that you can truly love and truly be together with."...

 

I agree, but yet, this is what is so impossibly hard, now. She (AP) came to me; offered herself to me; risked so much for me. No, we couldn't truly be together, but we could ride out what we both said we feel obligated to (our families, kids, lifestyle we enjoy), and somehow be the missing parts to each other, of some form of a whole life that we clearly both believe we'll otherwise never have as we meet our obligations (not the route you are advocating, obviously).

 

Sometimes I think I was just a train wreck to her (knowing the events of my story) that she couldn't help but not look at and be drawn in to it/me. I'm still sick with grief over my W recklessness toward me, our family (trying to bust us up), etc. I mean, it's so obvious how painful it is, right? The wanton promiscuity, unsafe, with guys who told her she'd only be an object. How can someone (my AP) just go cold and leave me standing, demand NC when they know this, and they wanted the relationship with me (gawd it was her idea in the first place)!?!?

 

Well, I know. The Dday was my fault, unintentionally. I f'd up and forced her to take on this conclusion that NC is the only option. Now she's doing a 'Juan Pablo' saying our time was wrong and she's been a 'bad person'. ugh.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Gunthar

[Aspasia33]

bump (hoping for some additional comments from someone, maybe an xMM who stuck it out during a long NC period where she felt it was over but changed her mind later). Call me crazy...

 

Married 15 years, having an affair with a MM for 5 years. I have broken it off multiple times( out of guilt) and we have always got back together... However Gunthar, I haven't read your whole thread so I am not aware how long you were seeing the OW? I ask this as I think the length of time is important.. It took me about a year before I really fell in love with my MM.. He says he fell in love imeduatky. Tbh Gunthar, she may not be as intense over it as you are? I don't know, I don't know your relationship.

I have gone NC with my MM when we have broken up, mainly as it hurt me too much to pretend to be just friends. Every time he has broken NC.

We are a Long time affair though , love each other deeply and have experianced many ups and downs together.

Not sure if my post makes sense or helps you in any way. If your OW is saying she wants no contact, and not openly expressing why, I would respect her wishes.

[Scott Thomas]

Maybe she's decided to work on her marriage instead of having an affair with you.

I'd walk away from her and find someone else if I were you. Additionally, why are you still with your wife- she can sleep with other people but you can't?

[Realist3]

Married 15 years, having an affair with a MM for 5 years. I have broken it off multiple times( out of guilt) and we have always got back together... However Gunthar, I haven't read your whole thread so I am not aware how long you were seeing the OW? I ask this as I think the length of time is important.. It took me about a year before I really fell in love with my MM.. He says he fell in love imeduatky. Tbh Gunthar, she may not be as intense over it as you are? I don't know, I don't know your relationship.

I have gone NC with my MM when we have broken up, mainly as it hurt me too much to pretend to be just friends. Every time he has broken NC.

We are a Long time affair though , love each other deeply and have experianced many ups and downs together.

Not sure if my post makes sense or helps you in any way. If your OW is saying she wants no contact, and not openly expressing why, I would respect her wishes.

 

 

I agree with this. The length of time is very important.

 

I can't exactly tell by you post, but it seems like the NC period has been longer than your time together. This does not bode well for you hopes. In my 4 year A we have gone limited contact, but never NC. What you are describing sounds like a brief period of flirtation that really never developed into much more. Given that it has been a year of NC outside of niceties in public I would say it would be best to move on in your heart.

[Gunthar]

I am not aware how long you were seeing the OW? I ask this as I think the length of time is important.. It took me about a year before I really fell in love with my MM.. He says he fell in love imeduatky. Tbh Gunthar, she may not be as intense over it as you are? I don't know, I don't know your relationship.

I have gone NC with my MM when we have broken up, mainly as it hurt me too much to pretend to be just friends. Every time he has broken NC.

We are a Long time affair though , love each other deeply and have experianced many ups and downs together.

Not sure if my post makes sense or helps you in any way. If your OW is saying she wants no contact, and not openly expressing why, I would respect her wishes.

 

It was just 4 months. It was intense for us both I know, mostly because of the attraction, anticipation, how it was progressing, expectations that we could go on like this for a long time, the connection/commonality between us, the free time we both have during the day, and then the protection we had to carry it out under everyone's noses. But yes, not as intense for her I'm sure, not now definitely (but her fear of a Dday for her is all that drove her away). We know it 'ended' prematurely, but by her calculation she has to have it be over.

 

I know for sure that she was super sad for a month after our DDay. I saw her in public few times, talked some about her stress not wanting to be found out. We talked (I kept it brief for her sake). We recognized how sad it is/was that she just had to end it (maybe I went along with her view of the world too easily?). She'd ask how things were with my BS. But then eventually, she asked for NC and got kinda militant about it. She doesn't want anything found out, fears her iPhone is being monitored (it's not jailbroken though), wants any contact to be completely organic (not coordinated or forced), wants peace only, etc.

 

When she first asked me for NC, I told her I just couldn't promise but I would do my best, which has been pretty good but not good enough for her- not 100% (I miss her terribly, just derailed). I did start to promise her even though I fail (getting much better tho). But now I basically never run into her. She changed her life around so we don't run into each other. We did have a run-in a few weeks ago, but it was just all plastic-y smiles and exchanging of 'safe' pleasantries. It felt like old times at first, the genuineness of it all (her bff said I scored points, but then leaped backwards when I texted about 30 minutes later), but the contact ends up hurting in the moment as I realize we're just pretending (in her mind I assume) to be acquaintances, like she's just suffering me to "manage the situation" gracefully. I know it's hard for her. Desire, but regret. A whole ball of emotional confusion, perhaps.

 

She has said she wants it to be over. She can't have me in her life (fears being exposed and then divorced). Is sad it is over. Misses 'it' (me). But I know her. And see from afar (facebook) how she is no different. Same gaping holes in her heart. Feeling she's missing something. And does wish at times we hadn't fallen apart. She's said maybe we can be friends again someday. I know how to interpret that. So, I respect her, and wait...

 

I told her when we last had a 'real' conversation a few months back (I had asked for some sort of 'closure' conversation since there hadn't been anything of the sort at all, just me respecting her view of the world, and she was 'winning' with the NC method of wearing me out) that I just simply didn't believe her, but I'd respect her wishes. She knows I'm here waiting, which probably works completely against me. idk...

 

My AP's bff (another MOW) had her own dday with her A (a MM), and the bff and I talk all about that and all her personal stuff. Her AP went NC and she's in the same boat as me (sad/mad about NC, but gets it, knows going underground is an option but the AP won't even consider, etc.). So bff and I connect on all of this, for now.

 

"Time, why you punish me?" Right?

Edited February 5, 2014 by Gunthar

[Gunthar]

I truly appreciate everyone's thoughts. It certainly does 'add up' that I should just move on. She is not in the same place she was, nor where I am. No question.

 

But... what is engrained in my soul is the lesson I learned about women and their word, through my own W. See, when I excused her to her parents, she was absolutely done w us. Totally. She'd said every thing she could possibly conjure in her confused and misconstrued mind to justify and get the word out to her 'friends' about us being over. For the 3 months she was away, she'd tell her parents she was going to a gf's house, but she was going to see the same very wealthy younger, single OM who sucked her back into all the attn seeking earlier that summer (and he told her he had about 6 other women, always would, and made no apologies). Even had a 3-some with a gf of hers and this guy!!!

 

For 3 months she was "done", saying she'd figure it out. Now, we're married right, so there's just so much we'd have to uproot, deconstruct, etc. So, she came back home (but as you'll see in other posts, she still saw him).

 

My A is not a marriage, but I can't say it doesn't have as much meaning/depth for me at this point. I laid myself bare to my AP. And I mean, look the extent of the risk you take (we took) to try and be with each other. "Market worth" is something that fluctuates in our estimations (they change), but real worth is something that doesn't actually ever change. I was utterly worthless to my wife for a long time. I don't believe, based on my experience, that my AP will hold to a similar notion about our A. I hold her in high regard, she's just where she is because she got off-the-charts scared. But, maybe my 'stock' will never come back... I believe it will; I know how great I am.

 

My W is 'done' with the cheating. At this point, I'm convinced. She's willing to be monitored and all. Super ready to always take care of me. Back on board with our life, and having fun, being parents. But, I go out of town still. And I suspected nothing when all the betrayals occurred. She's a great actor. Most everything happened when I was gone. I'm out of the state now as I type. This guy could have contacted her and she gone over to his place again after the kids are in bed. It's a vicious cycle that is only solved with either trust and open-ness, or self-preservation and pride.

 

I just keep my A special, and look forward...

 

Really appreciate people jumping in on this...

 

G

Edited February 5, 2014 by Gunthar

[Gunthar]

Maybe she's decided to work on her marriage instead of having an affair with you.

I'd walk away from her and find someone else if I were you. Additionally, why are you still with your wife- she can sleep with other people but you can't?

 

That would be the adult/responsible/authentic thing for us both to do, right? But I am beside myself, and she (AP) is clearly still a spoiled, unaccountable, party girl, looking like Betty Crocker socialite with a marriage and bank account, who has mastered how to LOOK above reproach while at the same time attending the kinds of events and embracing a lifestyle that screams 'party like a rock star' (in EVERY sense of the notion), but actually be more crafty and insidious than you can possibly imagine. She hides it well, because she's being monitored by her H.

 

She (W) can't sleep with anyone. I protest it as soon as it comes out. I pressure her all the time to verify where she's been, who she was with (it sucks). As I mentioned above, I do think she's truly done, for now anyway.

 

I could sleep around (I have plenty of time and pass up opportunity monthly), but I don't. I couldn't do what she's done, unless maybe if I were filthy rich?? Idk. I have a life, a family I have to keep intact.

 

A friend (my AP) stuck their life out there for me because she valued me. I don't think she just changed her value of me; her 'risk assessment' is what changed drastically (and it was my fault, unintentionally). I have to find out if we can get rebuilt, and I won't find out if I give up. She's a chaotic one-of-a-kind mess, and I think I almost 'get' her.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Gunthar

[Leelou]

.."But in that case, wait out the years, and then go find yourself a special person, that you can truly love and truly be together with."...

 

I agree, but yet, this is what is so impossibly hard, now. She (AP) came to me; offered herself to me; risked so much for me. No, we couldn't truly be together, but we could ride out what we both said we feel obligated to (our families, kids, lifestyle we enjoy), and somehow be the missing parts to each other, of some form of a whole life that we clearly both believe we'll otherwise never have as we meet our obligations (not the route you are advocating, obviously).

 

Sometimes I think I was just a train wreck to her (knowing the events of my story) that she couldn't help but not look at and be drawn in to it/me. I'm still sick with grief over my W recklessness toward me, our family (trying to bust us up), etc. I mean, it's so obvious how painful it is, right? The wanton promiscuity, unsafe, with guys who told her she'd only be an object. How can someone (my AP) just go cold and leave me standing, demand NC when they know this, and they wanted the relationship with me (gawd it was her idea in the first place)!?!?

 

Well, I know. The Dday was my fault, unintentionally. I f'd up and forced her to take on this conclusion that NC is the only option. Now she's doing a 'Juan Pablo' saying our time was wrong and she's been a 'bad person'. ugh.

 

I can see you're hurting from all the way here. And I am sorry for you. I know the pain. Your wife is screwed up and your hands are tied because of the kids. You also probably still feel something for your wife. Your AP offered yourself a wonderful salve and you felt like your lot in life was made bearable, so you happily took that. Now she's retracted herself. . . I don't blame her -- your wife was going to end your AP's marriage and lifestyle by exposing her possibly, to her H, if she continued to see you! How can you not understand that your AP was not willing to lose everything by continuing to see you?

 

Either find another lover (and don't cry with pain when you fall in love with her and you lose her too because you are a MM), or just wait out the years.

 

In my case, it certainly helped having a MM for a few years - it allowed me to detach my heart from my H who is narcissistic, and a serial cheater. It allowed me to stop hurting so badly.

 

You have to weigh up the risks - there's a lot at stake when you take on a lover. Not only by your W finding out and making life hell for you and the AP, but also between you and the lover -- will she be married, or single? If married, her H might find out and harm you. If single, she may expose you to your W in order to push you into her arms. You are taking risks and gambling. And you WILL distance your wife AWAY from you... if that is your goal (like mine was, after I realized that my H was never capable of change) then fine, but if you are secretly hoping your W will be yours, then cheating is not good for your marriage!

[Leelou]

 

My A is not a marriage, but I can't say it doesn't have as much meaning/depth for me at this point. I laid myself bare to my AP. And I mean, look the extent of the risk you take (we took) to try and be with each other. "Market worth" is something that fluctuates in our estimations (they change), but real worth is something that doesn't actually ever change. I was utterly worthless to my wife for a long time. I don't believe, based on my experience, that my AP will hold to a similar notion about our A. I hold her in high regard, she's just where she is because she got off-the-charts scared.

 

Gunthar - based on the above paragraph I can see you truly felt something special, but this is also because she was the FIRST one you had an affair with... you poured your heart out to her (that's a pretty binding bond right there), but she did NOT... she kept quiet about her situation, and you in a secret, heady relationship with a beautiful woman, and the affair was cut short... of course you are still wanting her back and feeling a little obsessed.

 

But -- from these clues above, I figure that was NOT her first affair! This AP of yours strikes me as a serial cheater, narcissistic and an all out liar. They can be sweet and charming and get you reeled in, hook, line, and sinker. But --- they can also cut you off just as suddenly, and be pretty callous about it (hence her wtf does he want from me comment). She has done this with several men. And I am sure she has had others after you. Sorry you still feel she is super special, but she was just using you in the moment, the way she used others too. I promise you that you were NOT her first AP!!!!!! No way.

 

She never opened up to you either. Thus she didn't fall for you hard like you fell for her. She never had you listen to her pain and anguish like you had her do that for you. That kind of a listener makes us feel close to the person, but if they are cold-hearted users, they won't feel that connection.

The fact that she is callously using her husband for her wealthy comfy lifestyle and to look 'respectable' and married, smacks of narcissistic trademarks!

 

You are better off without her.

 

I know you fell for her, I know she was charming (that's the KEY feature of a narcissist), I know you want her... but she didn't fall for you as hard, she lacks empathy (another trait they share) and she finds it easy to move on.

 

And that is that.

 

Now -- what are you going to do? Do you still WANT your wife? Then work on your marriage. Do you still need more revenge on your wife before you can forgive her? (I get that). Do you want to get a new AP, or not? What do you want. And NO - don't say you want your 'special friend' because she is a fraud.

[Gunthar]

Well, Leelou, you are spot on about her, I fear.

 

I do almost completely understand her concern for her own life. I don't blame her for distance and NC, based on what I did. She had no other choice then. My perspective is why I can maintain, and be patient, like my bearing w my W. It's also why I can question my AP at the same time. But ultimately I respect her wishes. I want a 'win' for her. But I want her. So it's crazy tough, of course. There were times I've dwelt on being vindictive in some way toward her. But I really do love her. She likely is the serial narcissistic thrill-seeking betrayer, just as you've conveyed. But I know she really cared at one point.

 

My W doesn't know the true story. And never will. W is a complete loose canon and possessive of me even though she tried to bludgeon me emotionally so I dispose of her (W). While part of me wonders if it's the final step (to tell W what happened with AP) for the repair of my M to happen, I know with everything I am that one drunk night my W would destroy my AP, potentially, if W knew the real details. So, the only thing I can do now for my AP is keep that secret, for my AP's sake. I also happen to view it as the only way (along with NC) I can show her love any longer...Maybe that's warped and flying in the face of everything decent.

 

When I stop and consider it all, the gratuitous and blatant insult and injury from my W, I'm just dead (exponentially beyond numb). It hurts more than I may ever know/realize. I've given her everything. Every last ounce of dignity. Taking her back. Listening to her blather on about how she just can't stop herself from random men (but now she's home for good and committed to us, she says). Letting her misrepresent me to family and friends (while they no NOTHING of her betrayals), but still taking care of her with her medical issues.

 

Just last weekend, we had another 'cycle' where we argued, she again said she wanted a divorce. But, I push through to have a REAL conversation to clear the air, break down the whole communication problem that just occurred (because she won't pay close enough attention to details as things occur, to then rewind and slow-motion through it to learn from it all) and patch us back up. I'm the adult, always tracking the facts of how something broke down, so we can rightly discuss after the heat dies down.

 

But what truly hurts more than all of that sick stuff W presents is that the one woman (AP) who presented herself to me, the one thing I felt I had in my life that was safe and pure, who I bore my soul to, would have the heartlessness to walk away without a word of concern for me. Yes! It was TOTALLY my fault she was forced into a no-win scenario where she had to completely cut ties. We know if I hadn't messed up we could be having the time of our lives still, with no RADAR. But no. And she won't even check in with me. It's just unheard of what I'm trying to repair here w W, and not even a brief "how are things going?" No "hey, can't do 'us' anymore, but want to check in on you." Other than her own preoccupation with the next 80's tribute band concert at the local casino, or how to hang out with 'old friends from high school' and not getting 'caught' fooling around, NC is her 'gift' to me now.

 

Her risk assessment of me/us/the A is flipped on its head now. And I respect it, but at the same time I don't. Because I was present; I know she was for real during our time. Yes, she's for real now too.

 

She's not willing to risk now. Plain and simple. And that's ok. People do (and will) change. So, for now, I just do my best to keep my family moving, keep my AP special even though she may not think the same of it/me, and look for the planets to align with her, again... (I do seem to have some influence on that, just need some run ins with her again).

 

At the same time... like I said, I fear you're dead on correct. The ease with which she puts on the face for pleasantries. The thoughts/speculation that add up to who she 'really' is (probably) behind closed doors, or how she speaks of me when I am a topic of conversation. If I didn't have AP's bff on my side, completely understanding me and at times telling me how to help my cause, but not giving me 'a map' (if that makes sense), that's a characteristic of this that suggests to me I do have what I need; that if anyone could be in a crazier no-win scenario but have the experience and resource to see it through, to reverse a post-Dday situation of something that is 'over', it's me it seems.

 

You break down the scenarios well. What will I do. Not sure. Right now though, I need to go run 4 miles.

 

Much thanks for your time and attention (and to everyone who's posted).

 

I'd certainly welcome more comments from you all...

 

G

Edited February 6, 2014 by Gunthar

[Leelou]

My W doesn't know the true story. And never will. W is a complete loose canon and possessive of me even though she tried to bludgeon me emotionally so I dispose of her (W). While part of me wonders if it's the final step (to tell W what happened with AP) for the repair of my M to happen, I know with everything I am that one drunk night my W would destroy my AP, potentially, if W knew the real details. So, the only thing I can do now for my AP is keep that secret, for my AP's sake. I also happen to view it as the only way (along with NC) I can show her love any longer...Maybe that's warped and flying in the face of everything decent.

No, it's not warped, it's perfectly understandable, actually! Yes, it is a loving thing you can do for your exAP - NOT to throw her under the bus! And I agree that it would be wrong to do that to her. So, no, you cannot tell all to your W because she would destroy your exAP! When my H told me all about his exOW (plural OW), I had the power to hurt some of them through their work and their husbands, but I chose not to do that to them and to focus on my H. But not every spouse can do that, and if your wife is WEAK (which it sounds like she is), then no, don't entrust the loaded gun to her!

 

 

When I stop and consider it all, the gratuitous and blatant insult and injury from my W, I'm just dead (exponentially beyond numb). It hurts more than I may ever know/realize. I've given her everything. Every last ounce of dignity. Taking her back. Listening to her blather on about how she just can't stop herself from random men (but now she's home for good and committed to us, she says). Letting her misrepresent me to family and friends (while they no NOTHING of her betrayals), but still taking care of her with her medical issues.

 

Just last weekend, we had another 'cycle' where we argued, she again said she wanted a divorce. But, I push through to have a REAL conversation to clear the air, break down the whole communication problem that just occurred (because she won't pay close enough attention to details as things occur, to then rewind and slow-motion through it to learn from it all) and patch us back up. I'm the adult, always tracking the facts of how something broke down, so we can rightly discuss after the heat dies down.

Not only is your W weak, but your actions of being the better partner, always listening to her, helping her, and patching things up and making things right is only making your W feel closer to you! You are repeating the scenario where your AP listened to you and you felt heard, validated, cared for by you doing the same with your wife! Your W is talking openly, honestly about all her feelings, hurt, actions, and truths to you and you only listen well, but you don't open up like she does... you are holding back the Truth so your AP doesn't get exposed, but in doing so, you are not bonding with your W, but SHE IS. You are building up a stronger love connection by being there for your W. But it is not a two-way connection, because you are withholding ... does this sound familiar? It should - it's what you had with your AP where she did the listening and you poured your heart out, but she withheld and didn't talk openly about her hurts, and truths. So it wasn't a true bonding both ways. You are distanced to your wife. Your AP was in the same way, distanced from you, even though it appeared she was fully present for you (just like in your wife's eyes, you appear present for her).

 

But what truly hurts more than all of that sick stuff W presents is that the one woman (AP) who presented herself to me, the one thing I felt I had in my life that was safe and pure, who I bore my soul to, would have the heartlessness to walk away without a word of concern for me. Yes! It was TOTALLY my fault she was forced into a no-win scenario where she had to completely cut ties. We know if I hadn't messed up we could be having the time of our lives still, with no RADAR. But no. And she won't even check in with me. It's just unheard of what I'm trying to repair here w W, and not even a brief "how are things going?" No "hey, can't do 'us' anymore, but want to check in on you." (...)

 

Her risk assessment of me/us/the A is flipped on its head now. And I respect it, but at the same time I don't. Because I was present; I know she was for real during our time. Yes, she's for real now too.

 

She's not willing to risk now. Plain and simple. And that's ok. People do (and will) change. So, for now, I just do my best to keep my family moving, keep my AP special even though she may not think the same of it/me, and look for the planets to align with her, again... (I do seem to have some influence on that, just need some run ins with her again).

To me, it is very, very simple - your AP is pissed that you didn't put her on the pedestal at the End. You 'chose' your W over her, in the way you chose what to do, and to initiate NC. It's a slap in the face. It's an insult. And to a narcissistic person, they don't take too kindly at being treated second best! Her ego took a knock, and she cut you off too. It's extra tough for a narcissistic lover to be second best to the spouse!

 

You have to deal with reality... what you had with your AP, what you felt, what you experienced was not real. It was an illusion. She was expert at making you feel special and she was callous to cut you off in return... it's what N's do best. They discard you when you no longer serve a purpose to them. You have to understand that she is NOT capable of love and deep feelings in the same way that you are. It may have fooled you for a while, but if her feelings ran true and deep, she wouldn't have acted the way she did in the end, right?

 

You cannot love a N and expect them to love you back the same way -- they are not wired up for true love. They KNOW this! They KNOW they are different to everyone else, and they spend their entire lives studying other people, their emotions, and how to pretend to show empathy. They become better actors as a result. They are incredibly charming because they were focused on their shortfalls in their make-up.... but in the end, they are not capable of long-term love and a genuine relationship... look at her marriage... H no doubt thinks he is a lucky man to have her, he has NO idea she is swanning around with whomever she likes, and enjoying herself.

 

You have got to get it into your head that she was all smoke-'n-mirrors; an illusion.

If you don't get this, you will ALWAYS pine after her, as the 'perfect' woman for you. But she's not. She's not genuine. It's all an act, one that she can drop as fast as she put it on in the first place.

 

I hope you can realign your thinking.

 

You break down the scenarios well. What will I do. Not sure. Right now though, I need to go run 4 miles.

G

 

Run 4 miles? -- rather you than me, ha ha! I'd rather do an aerobics class for an hour.

[FLguy77]

 

 

To me, it is very, very simple - your AP is pissed that you didn't put her on the pedestal at the End. You 'chose' your W over her, in the way you chose what to do, and to initiate NC. It's a slap in the face. It's an insult. And to a narcissistic person, they don't take too kindly at being treated second best! Her ego took a knock, and she cut you off too. It's extra tough for a narcissistic lover to be second best to the spouse!

 

You have to deal with reality... what you had with your AP, what you felt, what you experienced was not real. It was an illusion. She was expert at making you feel special and she was callous to cut you off in return... it's what N's do best. They discard you when you no longer serve a purpose to them. You have to understand that she is NOT capable of love and deep feelings in the same way that you are. It may have fooled you for a while, but if her feelings ran true and deep, she wouldn't have acted the way she did in the end, right?

 

You cannot love a N and expect them to love you back the same way -- they are not wired up for true love. They KNOW this! They KNOW they are different to everyone else, and they spend their entire lives studying other people, their emotions, and how to pretend to show empathy. They become better actors as a result. They are incredibly charming because they were focused on their shortfalls in their make-up.... but in the end, they are not capable of long-term love and a genuine relationship... look at her marriage... H no doubt thinks he is a lucky man to have her, he has NO idea she is swanning around with whomever she likes, and enjoying herself.

 

You have got to get it into your head that she was all smoke-'n-mirrors; an illusion.

If you don't get this, you will ALWAYS pine after her, as the 'perfect' woman for you. But she's not. She's not genuine. It's all an act, one that she can drop as fast as she put it on in the first place.

 

I hope you can realign your thinking.

 

 

 

 

I haven't posted my story yet but you don't know how appropriate what you said is for me right now. In the blink of an eye it seems like I have been tossed aside by someone who told me they loved me more than they have ever loved anyone. It's been a pretty devastating day for me but your comment has opened my eyes some since it fits very well.