My Marriage Situation

[SleeplessIn]

Okay, to begin with, I started a thread under "Friends and Lovers" because I initially thought that was where it should be, but after doing more reading around in the forum, probably it should have been posted in this section instead. Link to my previous thread is here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/friends-lovers/454801-he-just-friend

 

Also didn't know about the abbreviations, so I guess at this point "Jack" will magically become OM even though we are not having an affair.

 

I've been impressed with the really excellent and thoughtful advice and insights that I see given out on this website, and I do have something of a dilemma with my marriage that I wouldn't mind hearing thoughts on. There is a whopping lot of back-story to it that I will try to avoid for brevity unless I need to bring it in to explain something else.

 

My husband and I have been married almost 20 years. We have both been married a couple of times before. Briefly, my first love -- and my fiance at the time -- was killed in action in the Vietnam War when I was in my upper teens. I'd been in love with him since I was 12. It was a horrible shock and experience, and for various reasons I didn't go through the grieving process in a good way but instead subconsciously ran away from it because I didn't know how to deal with it. Roughly 25 years later, it came back around like a boomerang and only then did I really face what had happened and work through it with the help of a therapist. During that 25 years, that experience ran my life from "behind the scenes" and virtually prevented me from actually being able to bond to someone else, which is a large reason why my previous marriages failed although not the only reasons -- and I didn't know anything about me was causing any problems.

 

My current husband served in Vietnam. In fact, he served in the same unit and at the same time as my fiance who was killed. They were in different companies and didn't know each other, but they had been to all the same places at the same times. Part of my self-therapy for dealing with the loss of my fiance 25 years later, was to go in search of men he had served with to find out more about his war and try to find guys who had known him and could tell me exactly what had happened. Which I did find out. I met my current husband online in a military chat room for Vietnam Vets. By the time we met, I had learned a lot and heard more than most people would ever want to know about war, including precisely how my fiance had died. My current husband at that time was just beginning to face the fact that he had PTSD from his war experiences and he was looking to find guys he had served with, and I was able to point him in the direction of an organization formed for his military buddies and help him make some connections. I could also listen and he needed to talk. Over time, we became good friends, and eventually realized we really loved one another. His marriages too had not been able to withstand the issues he had inside due to his war experiences, so in a way we had that in common and understood each other very well.

 

Our marriage has never been without problems due to his PTSD and/or my issues, but in another sense it doesn't seem to me like we exactly HAVE problems because we do understand the situation. He is a good person with a good heart, but he is irritable and touchy, he's not able to bring emotional intimacy to the bedroom and in fact as mentioned in the other thread, he tends to indulge in online connections with other women. That behavior in particular did some damage to our relationship during the first couple of years, because he would even go so far as to avoid sex, which really affected my self esteem and was one aspect of PTSD that I didn't understand for quite a while. It took some time for me to realize that a part of him is frozen at about the age of 19, and he had sexual experiences during his time in service with foreign prostitutes that I can't begin to emulate, and he has difficulty with the emotional intimacy because he learned "over there" to NOT feel close in a caring way since the other person could literally be dead in the next second.

 

So, our marriage has never been idyllic in the bedroom, and over time I've just settled for it. His therapy for PTSD and our shared counselling sessions have not helped -- and as I've gotten older and menopause has come and gone, physical issues have come up that would be easily resolved if he would only make "dates" with me when he does want love making so I could be prepared ... somehow he can't or won't remember that, ever, and it's all turned into actually a painful experience for me. However, since we only get that involved about twice a year, it's not that big a deal probably.

 

In other respects, we are fine. We are affectionate, we do have fun together. Our kids were from previous marriages, grown and out of the nest.

 

In 2004, my husband was operated on for an esophageal cancer. Prior to the operation, he was a pretty big guy -- he was 6 ft tall and weighed over 250. The type of cancer he had caused hormone issues that led to the weight gain. The surgery removed the lower part of his esophagus and upper part of his stomach, he could take nothing by mouth for well over a month, and left the hospital on morphine for the pain. Chemo and radiation therapy, yes.

 

The good news is that the cancer has not returned, he's been doing well in that regard. The bad news is that during the surgery, a nerve in his right side along the ribs was damaged in some way such that it has left him with almost constant severe nerve pain that feels to him like being stabbed with a knife. Without heavy duty medications (methadone, oxycodone and gabapentin), the jabs of pain are frequent and make him jerk and yelp. The doctors have all told him that there is nothing that can be done, he will need to be on these medications the rest of his life. He's good about not increasing them, he works instead at reducing what he can when he can.

 

However, over the 9 years of this, other problems have developed. His memory is affected, so that for example, he will go online and buy things and is not able to keep track of what he has spent. We used to each have a personal allowance each month, and he won't even try to stick to that anymore. He doesn't remember agreements we have made, especially with regard to the finances but also usually with other plans too -- so that for example, if we've agreed to join family for this or that event such as a birthday party, he won't remember this and pitches a fit about going. I handle the finances in terms of paying the bills, because he can't remember to write things down in the check register and keep the account balanced. If we are short -- which we have been every month for a good while now, I get yelled at as if I am spending too much, when I'm not.

 

As indicated on the other thread, we moved west to look after my elderly parents about 6 years ago. I grew up out west, my family was all out here, and prior to meeting him I had been planning to move out here. I set that aside to marry him but with the understanding that when his son (who lived with us) finished high school, we'd move west. He was 100% on board with that idea until the time came and at that point said he didn't remember ever making me any such promise. The thing is, even just his PTSD alone can account for memory problems, and I know this is true, but I can't help sometimes thinking that he is claiming to not remember this or that just so he can push at getting his way.

 

Fast forward, we made the move, and it took 2 years to sell our house back east. Not long after my Dad passed, the house sold and my husband said that he didn't want to sit around at the home of his in-laws, he wanted a place of his own to work on ... fix up, plant garden, etc. We ended up buying a place that is 85 miles away from my Mom's house, in large part because her place is in desert and we wanted to have our home in the cooler elevation. So, for the last almost-3 years, he lives at the place we bought and I look after my Mother who is in her mid-90's. He and I see each other a couple of times a month; otherwise we talk 2 or 3 times a day on the phone. While he made the choice to buy a property, now somehow it is my fault that he's there alone. To the point that half the time he is saying he hates the place we bought and he doesn't like living in this state and intends to move.

 

Often when we talk on the phone, he is nearly incoherent due to the effects of his medications -- he takes them twice a day and they pretty well knock him out for a while. When he's not incoherent, he mostly gripes about this that and the other thing. I know better than to try to get him to take other views, as he will just get angry and frustrated and even hangs up on me at times. He needs to get back into PTSD therapy with the VA, but every time he plans to drive over there he ends up having pain issues and can't go. I should say that the meds do not totally control the pain and he often has bad days in one way or another.

 

He weighs 150 lbs since losing a lot of weight after the surgery, and is developing a noticeable spinal curvature (kyphosis) because the radiation has led to damage to the inner bones of his spinal column, so now he is barely taller than my 5'5". He has enough knowledge and background in enough types of work that he knows the things to be done to the property we bought (in decent shape but some fixer upper), but he finds it hard to muster the energy and he's not great at working by himself -- he does better when he has someone to talk to. And boss around, LOL! I worry about him being there by himself, having to take medications that are frankly dangerous (what if he overdoses??? with his memory issues, that's a real concern) and the potential for him to hurt himself while working alone on the property.

 

Meanwhile, I have no choice but to look after my Mother. Both my sisters work, one of them works 2 jobs and they can't possibly do it. My husband has been rated 100% disabled through the VA since 2000 and I had to leave my job to take care of him after the surgery, so we live on his disability compensation and Social Security, but that put us in the best position to come help my folks.

 

We want to keep Mother in her own home and that is what we will do unless some situation arises such that I can't physically do what is needed for her. She and I get along great, we've never had issues, but she doesn't hear very well and she spends her days either reading or sleeping, so I'm sort of here most of the time unless going to the grocery store or some other errand, with no one else to talk to.

 

My friend -- the OM -- presented me with the wish to have me write a book for him about a life experience, and this has been a real shot in the arm for me over the last months. There is an honest need to confer a lot about how to approach this and that, plus working on the book has brought back a lot of bad memories for him that he needs to vent about. My years of experience listening to my husband and other Vietnam Vets with severe PTSD make me a good listener and I don't mind it.

 

But as noted on the other thread, I am very attracted to this guy and I think he might be attracted to me (altho' gosh knows why), and I'm aware of vulnerabilities I presently have based on the above, one of them being that I'm lonely, another being that it is depressing looking after my Mother and watching her slowly slowly fail, plus it is depressing worrying about my husband and getting little back but a litany of complaints and accusations and incoherent sentences.

 

I have no thought of leaving my husband. But I sure would not mind hearing if anyone can think of any solutions to the issues we have. Counseling in the past has not helped us much with things, and mostly I just exercise patience. If I could get him to go to the VA for PTSD therapy, that has helped in the past but now with his pain problems it's so "iffy" whether he can even manage to get to a weekly scheduled session.

 

I do see a therapist myself a couple of times a month, just to help me keep my sanity, LOL! But the friend, the OM, has done me the most "mental" good in these last months, as he lets me know he cares about the things I am dealing with, and he presents me different things to think about (he's shared some books with me that we can talk about, etc.), and his sense of humor helps me regain some perspective. As I said on the other thread, although he has said some things that have made me wonder if he was attracted to me for more than friendship, he has not ever crossed the line with me and in fact seems to rather bend over backward NOT to, which is fine.

 

Oh, and he too (the OM) is roughly 85 miles away from me, so we rarely even see one another.

 

It's pretty late, I think I'm rambling now, and I should stop. Sorry for the length, thanks for reading, and I'd like to hear thoughts back. Whether I agree or not, maybe something will be said that will help me improve something.

[SnapCracklePop]

Lots of stuff going on there!

 

So for the medication, this one is an easy suggestion. You control the pills. Go to your pharmacy and buy one of those plastic pill boxes. I have seen ones that have the daily compartments and also ones that have daily AM and daily PM compartments. You take on the responsibility to fill each compartment with his doses.. he then just has to remember to take it.. if the compartment is empty he knows he already took it. That is about a $10 option right there.

 

As for taking care of your mom... your sisters have time to help.. maybe they don't have all the time in the world, but they have weekends also. It is not fair to you to be the only one taking care of this person who at one time took care of all of you.

 

You say you don't want to leave your H, yet you are attracted to this OM. Careful.. you don't want to complicate your situation, have feelings of guilt etc. You have plenty on your plate right now.

 

Make a list of all those daily "things" you have to manage.. schedule, prioritize and delegate - be sure to leave time for you and your H, and some time just for you also.. You can't do it all yourself, but there are some things that you can manage. You are clearly overwhelmed by all that you are taking on. The stress and time being consumed... it leaves you vulnerable to these instances where someone is paying attention to you and can lead to some bad decisions. If you need to make serious relationship decisions, its best to do that with a very clear mind.

[SleeplessIn]

Thank you, @SnapCracklePop, for your response. A couple of points:

 

1. I don't live with my husband under the present situation, so I can't oversee his medications. We are a 2-hour drive apart except for roughly 4 to 6 days a month. The pill boxes you refer to are great -- I totally agree -- I use one myself and one also for my Mother, and I bought one quite some time ago for my husband, but he won't use it. Don't know whether he simply forgets to, or what.

 

When I try to talk with him about things like this, he gets irritable and says he knows what he's doing and doesn't need a "mother".

 

2. As to my sisters helping. They live an hour away. When they can come to help with our Mother, neither of them can take a whole weekend because 1 of them (the one with 2 jobs) works also on a Saturday. So one can come out on a Friday night and stay until Saturday, the other comes out Saturday after work and can usually (but not always) stay until Monday afternoon.

 

Sigh ....

[SnapCracklePop]

Sorry SleeplessIn - I must have missed a few points.

 

Well, that is a challenging situation then isn't it? And I am sorry - it was a long post and I did not catch every point you mentioned..

 

To me it sounds like there are 2 main problems... You are taking care of your mother, and your relationship with your H is suffering.

 

I think that for you and your H to have a better shot at fixing your M, you should be spending more time together. But you need to decide if that is truly what you want too. The problem is that you can't be together more often because you are taking care of your mother.

 

Can you do some sort of compromise? Find a home somewhere in the middle that gives you and your H your place.. and a place for your mother (Duplex maybe?).. and both of you move into a single home. This will certainly ease the task of providing care. Or maybe the best thing to do is to move her to your area. Understood that "her place is in the desert", but if her care is falling into your responsibility, then where is the best place for you to provide that care? Maybe its in your city with your H... maybe you can find a place that would be sufficient for both of your independence, yet giving you the access needed to be there and present for her. At some point the child becomes the parent, and you will have to make decisions for her. She may not agree with all of them, but you didn't agree with everything your parents did for you when you were the child either. If she is mid-90s can any decisions be made as her POA?

 

If you are able to live with your H and take care of your mother, then this will take away one big strain on your relationship and give you more time in that regard. Takes away one of your stress points. Maybe then you can look at things like couple counselling (you cannot ignore what you need from a relationship indefinitely... and doing so would lead you to making decisions you might regret later)... and "helping" (ie filling that pillbox for him) him manage his day in a very passive manner that might be more accepted than telling him how to do things. But ultimately at some point, if he won't accept help there is no point offering until he learns the hard way.

[JThompkins]

I just want to say if you think you are very attracted to this OM you should really take a step back from him. I realize you say you rarely see each other, but if that is the case and you are still very attracted then maybe you should not see each other or contact each other at all. No matter what, this OM will never be more important then your marriage and husband.

Edited January 20, 2014 by JThompkins

[SleeplessIn]

Thanks for additional thoughts

 

As to changing our present living conditions, that would of course be the ideal, but I'm not sure it is "do-able". No one thinks it would be a good idea to move Mother 85 miles away from her home of 30 years, her doctors, etc. She is of sound mind, we all agree that a major move/change like that for someone of her age would be nothing but detrimental to her state of mind and so on. A duplex or mother-in-law apartment is more or less out of the question because someone has to be handy pretty much 24/7. At most, I can leave her for a couple of hours a day in the afternoon when she naps.

 

If my husband would agree to it, the house we bought could be rented and he could move back here. We can't sell it in the foreseeable future for several reasons, so it's not a matter that we could buy a closer place to my Mother's. However, my husband doesn't want to live at Mother's place for the time she has left -- he wants our own property. And rentals could lead to more and more things that need to be fixed on our house, plus all the other potential problems that come with that.

 

As to the OM, at this point due to holidays and various stuff, we have not spoken on the phone for a month, and very few emails. I'm writing a book for him and it's the only paying job I can get under the circumstances, so I don't feel I can just drop that. Also, we have other business with him and I am the person who needs to handle it, so there is just no way we can stop contact entirely.

[JThompkins]

Fair enough if you can't cut contact entirely for business reasons. What have you told your husband about this man?

[SleeplessIn]

@JThompkins -- my husband knows the OM. We all met almost 3 years ago over a joint business matter, and we all hit it off just great as friends. I'm the person who has to be in touch regularly with the OM over business and also the book, so our friendship has grown more in the sense we know each other better. But when he comes over to our place or vice versa, he talks as much to my husband as he does to me. They both have military background although OM is not a combat veteran, they both have some construction work in their backgrounds and can talk housing fixes, etc.

 

The OM has offered a couple of times to come and help out my husband with this or that work that needs to be done at our place, but my husband hasn't taken him up on it. The thing is, my husband says he can do the work himself, but both the OM and I can see that probably he can't handle the physical aspects of some of it. OM would like to help, but he won't push.

 

My husband knows that I really really like the OM. I honestly said that if I was single and not dating my husband, that the OM would be a guy I'd enjoy going out with because he's fun to be around, and my husband agreed that he is and understood that. So I think basically he knows I have a "crush" on the OM, but he also knows that I love him (husband) dearly -- he's not being deprived of anything except the things he has chosen to be deprived of, and he knows that. He doesn't see any need to be questioning me about the OM, I keep him up to speed on recent discussions about the book and all that.

 

.

[JThompkins]

Ok so just to be clear, you are 100% sure that your husband is 100% clear that you are physically attracted to this man, yes? There is no room for any doubt maybe he does not know as much as he should? Since if there is that could be a problem in the future.

[SleeplessIn]

Yes, I'd say my husband knows. He made a comment to me a while back that "You and OM can run away together if you want, but I don't think you guys would do that." And I said, "I agree, I doubt we would." And we laughed. Now that I think about that exchange, I could have added "We'd probably just stay in the area and rub your face in it," and my husband would have laughed even harder.

 

I don't actually know whether or not the OM is physically attracted to me -- I'd be quite flattered if he was. We are all, by the way, in the range of our late 50's, early 60's in age. He has said a few things over a wide period of time that could indicate that he is, but I'm not sure. He has certainly had plenty of opportunity to really say something to me if he wanted to, and he hasn't done that. He knows what some of our marital issues are, but he also knows I love my husband -- I should add that I don't complain to OM about my husband, there are just some things he has picked up on.

 

And I should also add that while some of the conversations with the OM turn into funny remarks and we poke fun at each other, this is about as close as we come to anything that could be called flirting. I don't even know that it IS flirting since there are no sexual overtones to it.

[JThompkins]

I guess the only question left is, do you think there is even a small chance you might one day do something inappropriate with this OM? As in, is there even a 1% chance?

[SleeplessIn]

If the OM is attracted to me and I knew that, then I guess I would say Yes there could be a small chance. But I think the chance even then is VERY small, because the OM prides himself on being a man of principle, and even if I had a weak moment I'm not sure he would.

[Solcita2]

Wow... A LOT... I didn't read the responses but I hope this can help.

 

When I started dating my F, his mother was just out of the hospital after a hip replacement and he was living at her house and taking care of her. The idea was to take care of her for 6 months at most, then he would move out and she would be back to be independant again.

 

It wasn't possible. MIL developed alzheimer and parkinson. She almost died under our watch 3 times.

We were lucky because her psychiatrist was wonderful and he would not only speak with her but also with F and me. He would ask F how we were doing and then he would check on me.

 

I had to move in with them because MIL was very delusional and wouldn't let F take care of her but she was very friendly with me. She would refuse to eat if I wasn't around. So it got to a point where F and me would be sleeping on the living room floor... we made the decision of moving to a bigger place where we could have a proper room, and a room for MIL. This would mean big debt but we were willing to do so in order to live better. However, by that time the doctor was already telling us to get ready for a nursing home moving, because he would not only think in MIL's best interest but also in ours. He did not agree with the idea of moving together. Even when we were doing very well as a couple (this made us stronger) he said that eventually it would hurt the relationship.

 

By the time MIL had to be transfered to the nursing home because she needed 24/7 nurse care, the psychiatrist was the one to make the decision because F was not able to do so.

 

We were able to go through that specially because we were both strong and worked as a team.

 

Your case is different. You also need to help your H. I would suggest the same things I was told and helped me:

 

1) You can't leave your life because of your mom. Your husband ALSO needs you. I'd suggest you to take her to your home so you can be together with your H. Yes, the ideal situation it would be for her to remain in her house, but when that means stressing your life so much, it's no longer possible. You have to priorized your own life. You won't neglect her by doing so, just taking her to a place where you can also be more at home. If your siblings don't agree with this tell them staying with your mom at her house is no longer an option, you need to be with your husband (and it's not a selfish thing to ask!).

 

2) Your friend... DANGER ZONE. You're still strong enough to realize what's going on and you are very clear what you want and don't want (leave your marriage). But it will get to a point where you will fool yourself... don't let that happen. STOP. You're already letting him in too much. You are crossing the line. and you know it... safe yourself from it.

 

Hope it gets better!

[SleeplessIn]

So you basically said there is a small chance you might cheat on your husband with this OM, so now it seems like it is time to get him out of your life. I realize you said something before about business, but is it worth your marriage? Is there zero chance you can do business with someone else? You do realize this is some very murky waters right? Have you informed your husband there is a small chance you will cheat on him with this person? He has a right to know that. I wish you luck.

 

I don't think I need to inform him -- I'm sure he knows there is a small possibility, just as I know that there is a small possibility that he might decide to take his online flirtations into the Real World. We're adults, we've experienced a lot in life, why put an emphasis on saying "Gee, I might actually do it" and cause either one a reason to be upset, when the likelihood is so small? A lot of things in life are in the "might" category.

 

If I were to say what I really would like to see happen in terms of the OM in this situation, I'd like to see the friendship clarified so that we both know where we stand. If he cares about me beyond friendship, can he keep it as just a good friendship or is he going to feel he needs to back away? I'd be happy to know that the OM will simply continue to be there for me in the ways he has been so far, no more but no less.

 

Something he said one time when at our house ... the 3 of us were standing and chatting as he was getting ready to leave, and my husband turned aside to look for something on a table. The OM got my attention, indicated my husband and very quietly said to me, "Look after him, yeah?" That warmed my heart because it told me that OM knows the difficulties, and it made me feel like he (OM) was joining me in a supportive way, that he was taking on a sense of responsibility also for the welfare of my husband. I think that the OM and I could care a lot about one another but recognize and agree that we aren't going to get all involved with each other in the "wrong" ways but be "best friends" in the RIGHT ways.

[SleeplessIn]

@Solcita2 -- You make good points, identifying that my husband and I need to make our life together a priority. I will talk to my sisters and see if they can think of a good way to improve the situation overall. The thing is, I'm perfectly happy to look after my Mother -- she has been a wonderful mother and she is a delightful person and I feel it is a privilege to have her with us so long and that I can be here for her. But for my personal life, it is a difficulty.

[beach]

Your husband isn't in his right mind. No one could be while on those medications.

 

You are dealing with his altered self.

 

Without getting off the meds - your H can't get present in the moment. He's unpredictable at best. Druggy's are like that.

 

No, don't act on things with OM - if you intend to get involved with the OM then divorce your H first.

 

FYI - your H is completely numb.

Edited January 21, 2014 by beach