what happens before a marriage???

[underpants]

Another thread has made me think...

 

Would a discovery of a pre-marriage behavior or act(s) make you second guess your spouse, your commitment, and the decision to continue with your partner?

 

Can you truly let it go?

 

What if your spouse was a wanted felon, and they failed to disclose this to you?

 

What if your spouse had a history of homosexual acts/relationships, and failed to disclose this to you?

 

What if your spouse was a serial cheater in a former marriage or relationship(s), but failed to let you know about that?

 

What if your spouse was a former porn star or prostitute?

 

What if they cheated on you before the wedding?

 

What if your spouse was formally a different gender, and they failed to disclose this?

 

...the list goes on, and I think at the end of the day, it is up to the betrayed (lied to) partner to decide what is acceptable or what they cannot accept, or even if the omission or lie itself is too great to get past.

 

I just read so much about how lies erode the trust in a marriage, or relationship and I agree. To discover you have been lied to for your entire marriage and the reality that you never really knew a side to your partner is a big deal.

 

Its odd that some folks that rally for truth and transparency seem to be cooly cool with big omissions before the nuptials.

 

I'm just curious about that logic.

 

Thanks for reading.

[dichotomy]

I understand this very well and it has been an issue in my own marriage.

 

I remember a very interesting movie called " a history of Violence" which discusses what if you find out your spouse was a violent felon - but also gave it up out of a deep level of disgust, before they met you?. Very interesting end to that movie (wont give it away) worth renting. Sometimes we are very different people in our pasts.

 

To me its not always about what they did, but how they now feel and believe about it - but you do list some extreme examples.

Edited January 20, 2014 by dichotomy

[carhill]

Would a discovery of a pre-marriage behavior or act(s) make you second guess your spouse, your commitment, and the decision to continue with your partner?

 

Can you truly let it go?

 

Presuming this was post-M, I feel it would be natural to 'second-guess' the whole dynamic and, at my age and with the experiences I've had, I'd be less likely to give 'benefit of the doubt' and more likely to address the issues directly, most likely with a professional. Such realities (I've seen plenty of them) are why I'd involve my lawyer in any future marriage plans. Sucks but that's how life is these days. We only get one.

[underpants]

but you do list some extreme examples.

 

Well, I do watch the lifetime network from time to time.

 

I will check out the movie suggestion, I do recall a story about a woman who was a former felon, changed her identity and started a family only to be discovered later and imprisoned. Interesting.

 

Then there are people like Jerry Sandusky's wife. Weird.

 

Actually, I have witnessed some of those examples or more in people I've known or been aquainted with.

 

There is a episcopalian PRIEST, who has 4 grown sons and a wife. He is gay and cheats on her with men. Not sure she knows.

 

Another man that has been married for over 30 years, gay and has aids, but hey, the marriage is still together. She knows and she stays.

 

Worked with a former man, now woman. s(he) doesn't let men know her former status. I think that is crazy, but whatever.

 

Knew someone who was married and the husband "forgot" HA!!! that he was already married to someone else.

 

Others that hide former addictions or big debts.

 

I just thought it was an interesting subject and I wonder if sometimes people don't put more thought into buying a car then their choice in a life partner.

[Fluttershy]

The discussion here is not clear therefore pointless. Your last examples are betrayals post marriage not pre knowing one another.

 

When you cheat you did an act against that specific person. My sexually explorin with my bff at 13... Not something relevant in any relationship that came up. It was a secret between my bff and I. My bff (at the time) have no romantic interest in each other... This happened almost 25 years ago. It has nothing to do with who I am. It has nothing to do with my husband. I am not bi and don't feel any need for sexual exploration anymore... Unless with my husband. I am not living a lie or decieving him. Those are just things self entitled people make up to make themselves feel worse. It has no effect on my life.

 

And illegal action that I have been charged with or could be charged with is entirely different. If I am running from the law I know that eventually I could get caught. That is pretty major. But no unconvited criminal is gonna say "hey btw, I'm an axe murderer."

 

If I had been a prostitute and got my life together in a perfect world people would forgive me for it. But unfortuantly any man willing to marry a reformed prostitute is probably not the type of person the reformed prostitute wants to be with. So, she moves far away and starts a new life and doesn't tell anyone. She is tested for stds. She has no pimp out to get her. She wants nothing to do with her very sad and dark past. She is a good and faithful wife. They grow old together. They die happy. Of course everyone says she should have told. So easy to do when not walking in her shoes. Yep, let everyone know she was a former prostitute and live the rest of her life alone and miserable. After all she has to pay for her past. We love to make others pay from our ivory towers.

I get why some people keep pre-meeting secrets. I don't judge it. I get why it hurts people's feelings and, yes, pride, when they find out a secret. But if someone is truly in love with the other person, is not arrogently self entitled, has a drop of empathy and doesn't make it to be all about them, just sensasionlize it and choose to look at it as negative as possible they will

Overcome it. To be clear I am talking about past behaviour pre-meeting their partner.

[Fluttershy]

Maybe being honest is not easy, but there is absolutely no excuse for not doing so. Life is not supposed to be easy, relationships are not supposed to be easy. Nobody deserves to be alone and miserable, but at the same time they certainly do not deserve to be lied to either, and lies of omission still equate to lies in the end.

 

But not everyone's pOV. Not everyone buys into that theory and you can't force people to do so. Therefore people should make that clear. Their morality line is "lie of ommission exsists". Because often people don't even consider it until they feel they are a victim. And we aren't talking making life "easy". We are talking being in a place and through something that most people have no idea what it is like.

[underpants]

The discussion here is not clear therefore pointless. Your last examples are betrayals post marriage not pre knowing one another.

 

When you cheat you did an act against that specific person. My sexually explorin with my bff at 13... Not something relevant in any relationship that came up. It was a secret between my bff and I. My bff (at the time) have no romantic interest in each other... This happened almost 25 years ago. It has nothing to do with who I am. It has nothing to do with my husband. I am not bi and don't feel any need for sexual exploration anymore... Unless with my husband. I am not living a lie or decieving him. Those are just things self entitled people make up to make themselves feel worse. It has no effect on my life.

 

And illegal action that I have been charged with or could be charged with is entirely different. If I am running from the law I know that eventually I could get caught. That is pretty major. But no unconvited criminal is gonna say "hey btw, I'm an axe murderer."

 

If I had been a prostitute and got my life together in a perfect world people would forgive me for it. But unfortuantly any man willing to marry a reformed prostitute is probably not the type of person the reformed prostitute wants to be with. So, she moves far away and starts a new life and doesn't tell anyone. She is tested for stds. She has no pimp out to get her. She wants nothing to do with her very sad and dark past. She is a good and faithful wife. They grow old together. They die happy. Of course everyone says she should have told. So easy to do when not walking in her shoes. Yep, let everyone know she was a former prostitute and live the rest of her life alone and miserable. After all she has to pay for her past. We love to make others pay from our ivory towers.

I get why some people keep pre-meeting secrets. I don't judge it. I get why it hurts people's feelings and, yes, pride, when they find out a secret. But if someone is truly in love with the other person, is not arrogently self entitled, has a drop of empathy and doesn't make it to be all about them, just sensasionlize it and choose to look at it as negative as possible they will

Overcome it. To be clear I am talking about past behaviour pre-meeting their partner.

 

That is alot of words.

 

My last examples are pre-marriage carried over into post marriage discovered, in some cases later.

 

I burned my ivory tower down long ago. Just curious how people stab one thing and nurture another is all.

 

carry on.

Edited January 20, 2014 by underpants

[Fluttershy]

That is alot of words.

 

My last examples are pre-marriage carried over into post marriage discovered, in some cases later.

 

I burned my ivory tower down long ago. Just curious how people stab one thing and nurture another is all.

 

carry on.

 

But if those incidents carried over they weren't in the past and therfore... Entirely different. If the deed is long over before meeting it is entirely different than if it is while with someone. And even more different if it is after marriage. Two different situations.

[Fluttershy]

Sometimes common sense has to come into play though.

 

If people always followed common sense they wouldn't expose their dirty laundry to a group o people almost guaranteeing their child being exposed to something that could bring him terrible teasing at school.

[Fluttershy]

I know, but that doesn't actually negate the fact common sense should come into play.

 

So what would common sense look like for a woman who was desperate enough or forced to be a prostitute, got out, started a new life and wanted desperately to never been seen as the woman who prostituted herself?

[underpants]

So what would common sense look like for a woman who was desperate enough or forced to be a prostitute, got out, started a new life and wanted desperately to never been seen as the woman who prostituted herself?

 

I don't know....honesty with her future husband perhaps?

[Fluttershy]

And that is where you guys don't get it. Or fail to see. Most women involved in prostitution are there because they think thu have no choice and they often start out very very young. So getting out takes huge amount of strength. But now they are faced with this.

 

People knowing and judging them without seeing where they come from. Only ever seeing them as tainted. Men as a rule have way to much ego and sexual pride to ever marry a prostitute. Way to visual and hard to overcome. So the full disclosure route would guarantee her a life of lonliness. "I'm a nice guy and I understand why she dis it but... I can't get over the fact she was a prostitute" would be every guys reaction.

 

But she could have a happy life and give a man a happy life by keeping it in her past. So 100% unhappy future by telling or at least anchance at happiness by withholding.

 

I get that. Why can't you?

 

Oh I know why... Because you can't see a 16 year old girl who has no food or money should know to starve herself instead of taking that cash from a business man, closing her eyes tight shut and wishing she had chose to die but her will to live was to strong.

 

Overly dramatic? No, every day thousands of girls in our first world nations find themselves in prostituation and hopeless because a chance at a real life a healthy life is impossible not just because it is hard to get out but when you do... What does it matter? You will forever be judges.

[underpants]

And that is where you guys don't get it. Or fail to see. Most women involved in prostitution are there because they think thu have no choice and they often start out very very young. So getting out takes huge amount of strength. But now they are faced with this.

 

People knowing and judging them without seeing where they come from. Only ever seeing them as tainted. Men as a rule have way to much ego and sexual pride to ever marry a prostitute. Way to visual and hard to overcome. So the full disclosure route would guarantee her a life of lonliness. "I'm a nice guy and I understand why she dis it but... I can't get over the fact she was a prostitute" would be every guys reaction.

 

But she could have a happy life and give a man a happy life by keeping it in her past. So 100% unhappy future by telling or at least anchance at happiness by withholding.

 

I get that. Why can't you?

 

Oh I know why... Because you can't see a 16 year old girl who has no food or money should know to starve herself instead of taking that cash from a business man, closing her eyes tight shut and wishing she had chose to die but her will to live was to strong.

 

Overly dramatic? No, every day thousands of girls in our first world nations find themselves in prostituation and hopeless because a chance at a real life a healthy life is impossible not just because it is hard to get out but when you do... What does it matter? You will forever be judges.

 

You are projecting a preceived notion, not all are 16 forced and starving. I'd even go further to say those girls would cling to honesty in hope of being saved, but whatev'. Even so, as desperate as someone may be, for whatever reason, clinging to a lie to better oneself, is just that, and it happens everyday.

 

People can be very selfish, at the expense of others. Perhaps their own young choices, confusion, grant them such entitlement?

 

Interesting.

[Fluttershy]

What if the man feels a happy life includes an honest spouse? So that means nothing? She feels bad about her past, so that is the end of the discussion? Kind of seems like marriage should not work that way. Nobody is saying she should be shouting her past escapades from the rooftops, but she can certainly tell the guy she claims to love.

 

You just don't get it. And that is why nothing will change for the women who are trapped in prostitution. They are tainted, often by no choice of their own. And because people feel so entitled to know everythig negative thing their spouse ever did even i it was long ago in the past and nothing to dow ith how they live their life now they need to be "honest" even though that means they will never have happiness. If those people had empathy over their own selfish view (it's all about me) in the first place than.

 

I know a girl who was raped by her dad and she was so ashamed... To top it off no one ever dated her. They just couldn't handle it as "it was all they thought about". She moved away and I don't know what happened to her but I would dare anyone to accuse her of "lie of ommission" if she decides to keep that a secret... Forever.

[underpants]

What if the man feels a happy life includes an honest spouse? So that means nothing? She feels bad about her past, so that is the end of the discussion? Kind of seems like marriage should not work that way. Nobody is saying she should be shouting her past escapades from the rooftops, but she can certainly tell the guy she claims to love.

 

Write this down for your session.

 

Of course, you deserve an authentic life, with the revelation you begin the work.

 

It will be okay.

[Fluttershy]

You are projecting a preceived notion, not all are 16 forced and starving. I'd even go further to say those girls would cling to honesty in hope of being saved, but whatev'. Even so, as desperate as someone may be, for whatever reason, clinging to a lie to better oneself, is just that, and it happens everyday.

 

People can be very selfish, at the expense of others. Perhaps their own young choices, confusion, grant them such entitlement?

 

Interesting.

 

And you my friend are sadly ignorant of the underworld and what really goes on. Most people have no idea just preconcieved notions. But that is a topic jump and obviously the answer for many is.

 

Tell your boyfriend/girlfriend absolutely everything. Because they are entitled to judge you on past actions, dump you, and then let everyone you know know... (because as we have seen, that is what usually happens when secrets come

Out)

[Fluttershy]

You deserve, you deserve, you deserve...

 

It is all Self entitlement. So a spouse deserves to know of a past action that has no bearing on a present life. But on the otherhand a spouse doesn't deserve to keep their past in the past that has no effect on a present life. seems to me to be a one sided point of view.

 

Nobody "deserves" anything. They can ask for, they can want, they can attain to, and they can live their life... But they don't "deserve".

 

You can want a spouse who is 100% honest all the time. You can be non hypocritcal about it and be a 100% honest yourself. But you don't "deserve it"

[underpants]

And you my friend are sadly ignorant of the underworld and what really goes on. Most people have no idea just preconcieved notions. But that is a topic jump and obviously the answer for many is.

 

Tell your boyfriend/girlfriend absolutely everything. Because they are entitled to judge you on past actions, dump you, and then let everyone you know know... (because as we have seen, that is what usually happens when secrets come

Out)

 

By that rational if you were to betray your spouse/partner then such secrrets/betrayl are still okay, as long as they don't know about it?

 

...getting a strage pulp fiction diner vibe...

[Fluttershy]

By that rational if you were to betray your spouse/partner then such secrrets/betrayl are still okay, as long as they don't know about it?

 

...getting a strage pulp fiction diner vibe...

 

I have clearly said actions done against your spouse or while with yourself are entirely different.

 

I just understand why someone would keep things in their past a secret. I choose not to see it as "tricking" or whatever. More of a sad fact of our unforgiving world.

[underpants]

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but yeah, I kinda do want the person I'm spending my life with to be honest with me about everything. I find people tend to have huge problems when they feel honesty is something they can choose to just turn on and off depending on their whim and how bad they feel about their life choices.

 

It is really not too much to ask. Like really.

[Fluttershy]

Would either if you guys marry an ex prostitute? You may say yes tow in your argument but I doubt it. I seriously do.

[underpants]

I have clearly said actions done against your spouse or while with yourself are entirely different.

 

I just understand why someone would keep things in their past a secret. I choose not to see it as "tricking" or whatever. More of a sad fact of our unforgiving world.

 

Okie dokie, I guess I think that marrying a person, means marrying the whole person, not a pretty box that they decorated and presented to you....forget those other boxes, they don't concern you, that is the past, lets sweep them under the carpet.

 

To each their own.

 

I would consider someone's past and respect the hell out of them for letting me know before hand. After marriage, and with an anchor child ...I would feel betrayed and tricked, hoodwinked, maipulated, played, a chump. I don't care about foo issues or whatev', you lied!

 

Any way you slice it it is a poop sandwich.

[Arieswoman]

This is a difficult issue.

 

Personally I would be more bothered about what someone had been involved with financially, rather than sexually.

 

If, for example, they had a poor credit record/were an undischarged bankrupt/had been to court for maintenance payments, now that could impact on our future life together.

 

Those sort of problems show at best a lack of organisation or practicality, and at worst irresponsibility.

 

I'm much less bothered about what they did with another schoolboy behind the bike-sheds when they were 13.

[JThompkins]

This is a difficult issue.

 

Personally I would be more bothered about what someone had been involved with financially, rather than sexually.

 

If, for example, they had a poor credit record/were an undischarged bankrupt/had been to court for maintenance payments, now that could impact on our future life together.

 

Those sort of problems show at best a lack of organisation or practicality, and at worst irresponsibility.

 

I'm much less bothered about what they did with another schoolboy behind the bike-sheds when they were 13.

 

I can see what you mean, I would also say past criminal history might be something I want to know. I mean, if you got nabbed with a dime bag of weed one time then ok no big deal that isn't very relevant to the here and now, but if it is something a lot more serious...

[blueskyday]

Bottom line, we need to own our past and present choices. If we have done "bad" things, then we can't pick and choose what we present to a potential mate. That's called manipulation. It says that I can get whatever I want at your expense. That is pure selfishness and even poorer insight. It's much better to explain what was behind that choice and what one's current mindset is. What did you learn? What do you want now?

 

Love is putting another before yourself. Honesty about your past choices is your partner's right. So they can understand and know you. So they can make an informed decision. So they can love the whole (real) you.

 

Past abuse is a bit different. It wasn't a choice. It was done to you. Your choice to disclose, but I would and have. It is part of who I am. I want to be known. I want someone with whom I can be vulnerable and honest. I deserve that from a partner as well.

 

It's simple. Tell the truth.

Edited January 20, 2014 by blueskyday