AnyaNova Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Is there a workaround for this sort of mental block or is this just the way I am wired? Have any of you struggled with this and found a way to be able to?
Under The Radar Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Some people ARE just "Hard Wired" that way, and ... as a result ... there is no need for a "Work Around". Your natural personality is shy and sensitive. You need to feel comfortable and safe emotionally to become physical with someone. I am not shy, but find it usually takes me until the third date to initiate a kiss. I don't like to rush anything physical in the beginning so I have a chance to see if chemistry exists beyond the physical attraction. Too many people create a sense of false intimacy by pushing the physical aspects of a relationship without any idea who the person is. In your situation I personally wouldn't worry about it. If you meet the right guy you'll be kissing soon enough, and he would not care if it happened on the first date, or the fifth. 5
carhill Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 IMO, your disinclination to kissing on the first date doesn't rise to the pathological; it's merely a personal preference and style. If you've successfully formed and maintained healthy interpersonal relationships, then it works for you. If the same style makes having such relationships, in general, difficult, as in you demonstrate the inability to feel and show affection for another human being, then you might wish to study that further.
Author AnyaNova Posted January 20, 2014 Author Posted January 20, 2014 Some people ARE just "Hard Wired" that way, and ... as a result ... there is no need for a "Work Around". Your natural personality is shy and sensitive. You need to feel comfortable and safe emotionally to become physical with someone. I am not shy, but find it usually takes me until the third date to initiate a kiss. I don't like to rush anything physical in the beginning so I have a chance to see if chemistry exists beyond the physical attraction. Too many people create a sense of false intimacy by pushing the physical aspects of a relationship without any idea who the person is. In your situation I personally wouldn't worry about it. If you meet the right guy you'll be kissing soon enough, and he would not care if it happened on the first date, or the fifth. You know, though I am curious know of others have found a way to, I think perhaps you are right about this. There are some ways in which I wish I could do what others have the ability to do and I do not, but there are others in which I think you make a very good point about the rushing of physical intimacy. I remember getting teased by some people at my former church about this very issue. They kept saying "It's just a kiss." But to me, the more I think about it, a kiss is not "just a" anything to me. It is something very significant and I think, myself, that maybe I need to already have some level of feeling for a man to be able to. But I think you are right too, in saying that the right man for me would not care if it took awhile. I guess I had been thinking about it from the strategic point of view of risking losing good potential partners by not being able to, but the right man for me is going to want to wait until I am comfortable with it and will want me to be comfortable. Sometimes I wonder if I make too much out of things, or if I am just too sensitive. But then I remember how beautiful life is when everything is so vibrant and full of meaning that many other people gloss right over.
Author AnyaNova Posted January 20, 2014 Author Posted January 20, 2014 IMO, your disinclination to kissing on the first date doesn't rise to the pathological; it's merely a personal preference and style. If you've successfully formed and maintained healthy interpersonal relationships, then it works for you. If the same style makes having such relationships, in general, difficult, as in you demonstrate the inability to feel and show affection for another human being, then you might wish to study that further. Well, I have formed and maintained more or less healthy relationships (the more healthy being the much much longer of the three total). :-) And, just for reference, the use of the word pathological was for dark humor and nothing else. I don't really think that its pathological. And I can definitely feel and show affection for another human being. It just takes a little more for me to feel comfortable.
carhill Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 FWIW, I can't ever recall kissing a woman on a first date. I later came to understand that such reticence was being interpreted as not being interested in them sexually, compared to other men's actions in my demographic, so I had to alter my style a bit to get to a second date. My natural style is still one of 'getting to know' before feeling the impetus to be affectionate physically. The same style extends to sex. TBH, now that I'm older, I'd rather be alone than deal with those kinds of expectations. 2
Author AnyaNova Posted January 20, 2014 Author Posted January 20, 2014 FWIW, I can't ever recall kissing a woman on a first date. I later came to understand that such reticence was being interpreted as not being interested in them sexually, compared to other men's actions in my demographic, so I had to alter my style a bit to get to a second date. My natural style is still one of 'getting to know' before feeling the impetus to be affectionate physically. The same style extends to sex. TBH, now that I'm older, I'd rather be alone than deal with those kinds of expectations. The realization that it may cost me second dates is what caused me to post this thread, but rethinking it, I suspect that I am going to be much happier with someone who understands that about me and also is that way themselves.
carhill Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 I think where I went wrong was that I presumed that the ladies thought I was interested in them romantically because I asked them out on a date and that was enough. Apparently, for many, over time, nope, it wasn't enough. They wanted immediate and clear evidence of that sexual interest, and were getting it from other men, so were used to it. It was merely a misjudgment on my part, not uncommon due to my generally outlier perspectives on romance at the time. There is a slight difference in the dynamic since women have never asked me out on dates so I have no idea if they're interested in me personally until that is expressed; conversely, when I ask them out on a date, they're pretty aware that I'm interested in them. Who's on first? You decide TBH, if I had 'waited around' for a woman who matched up with my 'style', I'd still be single and a virgin. I did experiment with that for about a decade, hence my opinion on the matter. I'm single (divorced) and happy with that now. IMO, a man who is genuinely interested will get to the second date with you, presuming of course the interest is mutual. If he asked you out in the first place, there is some interest there so go with that.
MixedUpChick Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 FWIW, I can't ever recall kissing a woman on a first date. I later came to understand that such reticence was being interpreted as not being interested in them sexually, compared to other men's actions in my demographic, so I had to alter my style a bit to get to a second date. I've been on a couple dates where the man didn't make any attempt to kiss or have any physicality on the first date, I assumed it was due to shyness. If nothing happened on the second date either, I start wondering if he's actually interested. By the third date if there's still nothing, I'm done. I'm too affectionate of a person to be with someone who can't be affectionate back. I always greet a new date with a hug, & usually say goodbye with another hug - so whether he's shy or not, there's an easy opening to extend the length of the hug or work in a little kiss, even on the cheek.
MissBee Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Is there a workaround for this sort of mental block or is this just the way I am wired? Have any of you struggled with this and found a way to be able to? If it feels right I can do it. However, if you can't I don't think it's something you need to remedy. It is what it is and if you like this person and are receptive and open not kissing them after the first date shouldn't be a dealbreaker. 1
carhill Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 OP, I was just thinking of how, even amongst close friends, affection styles differ. In my social circle I'm probably one of the more affectionate types, kissing and hugging and saying 'love ya man' to my male friends. It's the 'stranger' thing which has been consistently a barrier, in that I've never gone in for instant intimacy, preferring it to grow, if it does, over time. I recall one lady telling me she loved me and I responded, honestly, 'I don't know you well enough to say that, but thank you'. We later got to know each other far better and I was very affectionate with her. Does this make any sense to you, in that your style may be compatible with some people and incompatible with others? It sounds like you have a handle on that but are seeking to balance your style with feelings about 'missing' opportunities because of it. Tough call. I'd say, if you're getting a lot of first dates, soldier on and see how it goes. If first dates are few and far between, then IMO it's decision time. Alter style a bit or live with the current results. Hard to know which way to go, as each of us are different and at different times in our lives. 2
Els Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 I have never kissed on the first date. It only makes sense to me. You barely know the person at that stage, and kissing is an intimate thing. Why do you feel that your discomfort with it is 'pathological'? IMO it merely reflects different preferences and relationship styles. 2
JoelBarish Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Anya, Don't worry about someone else's timetable about what is supposed to happen when. When the time is right for you, you will know it. 1
somedude81 Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 I'm definitely not a kiss on first date guy. I tend to only want to kiss girls I REALLY like. Odds are that I won't really like her on yet. Second date more of a chance. 3rd date I would definitely know yes or no. 1
Author AnyaNova Posted January 21, 2014 Author Posted January 21, 2014 OP, I was just thinking of how, even amongst close friends, affection styles differ. In my social circle I'm probably one of the more affectionate types, kissing and hugging and saying 'love ya man' to my male friends. It's the 'stranger' thing which has been consistently a barrier, in that I've never gone in for instant intimacy, preferring it to grow, if it does, over time. I recall one lady telling me she loved me and I responded, honestly, 'I don't know you well enough to say that, but thank you'. We later got to know each other far better and I was very affectionate with her. Does this make any sense to you, in that your style may be compatible with some people and incompatible with others? It sounds like you have a handle on that but are seeking to balance your style with feelings about 'missing' opportunities because of it. Tough call. I'd say, if you're getting a lot of first dates, soldier on and see how it goes. If first dates are few and far between, then IMO it's decision time. Alter style a bit or live with the current results. Hard to know which way to go, as each of us are different and at different times in our lives. On the one hand, I don't get that many dates. On the other, there are a lot of messages from perfectly nice men who I am pretty sure really don't fit the criteria I have (I don't have that many, but the ones that I do have are pretty important to me) that I do not respond to. On a third hand somewhere out in the galaxy far far away, the dates that I do have are far more likely to be successful because of it. Perhaps holding out for what I really want will result in me being alone for the rest of my life. But I think I will be happier doing that than always wondering "what if"
Author AnyaNova Posted January 21, 2014 Author Posted January 21, 2014 I have never kissed on the first date. It only makes sense to me. You barely know the person at that stage, and kissing is an intimate thing. Why do you feel that your discomfort with it is 'pathological'? IMO it merely reflects different preferences and relationship styles. Apologies. The "pathological" is my own dark humor. I don't actually think it is. I'm sorry that that didn't come across. Agreed. Kissing is a very intimate thing!
Author AnyaNova Posted January 21, 2014 Author Posted January 21, 2014 I'm definitely not a kiss on first date guy. I tend to only want to kiss girls I REALLY like. Odds are that I won't really like her on yet. Second date more of a chance. 3rd date I would definitely know yes or no. It is nice to know that there are guys like this out there (several even on this thread!). It is a bit of a joke on me. I actually posted this thread, (most of the time I know that this is just the way that I am and that there is nothing wrong with it) After a date where given his body language after I wasn't able to kiss him, I was fairly sure that I wasn't going to hear from him again. And I guess I was thinking that maybe if I could, I needed to re-evaluate my approach. But I know to do so would fundamentally violate who I am and what I am comfortable with. And so I will not. Even if, in the future, it does lose me dates. Apparently, I was wrong. 1
carhill Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Something occurred to me when reading your post, that there is a difference between feeling the ability to kiss a person one has had knowledge of and contact with prior to a first date and kissing essentially a stranger on the first date. What I can liken the latter to in the pre-internet days would be friends setting up friends who didn't know each other on 'blind dates'. Comparing the two, and thinking of asking women out on dates whom I've known in real life versus those met online (including my exW), I've been far more likely to feel like kissing the former on the first date simply because we have a familiarity and rapport from our prior interactions and it's easier for me to grow that with attraction to want that physical contact and expression. Any insight from you on that aspect?
Els Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 That's all good. There was no offense taken, I was just wondering why you were classifying yourself as such. Anyway, yeah... don't worry, be yourself, compatible men will like you for you!
Author AnyaNova Posted January 21, 2014 Author Posted January 21, 2014 Something occurred to me when reading your post, that there is a difference between feeling the ability to kiss a person one has had knowledge of and contact with prior to a first date and kissing essentially a stranger on the first date. What I can liken the latter to in the pre-internet days would be friends setting up friends who didn't know each other on 'blind dates'. Comparing the two, and thinking of asking women out on dates whom I've known in real life versus those met online (including my exW), I've been far more likely to feel like kissing the former on the first date simply because we have a familiarity and rapport from our prior interactions and it's easier for me to grow that with attraction to want that physical contact and expression. Any insight from you on that aspect? Perhaps. I mean, if I extrapolate and imagine men that I know in my own life asking me out (most of them who aren't married are way too young, because I am in grad school right now), I really can't imagine kissing any of them on a first date. Possibly one. But even that I would be really unsure of. I mean, even the friend who if it weren't for one thing which he is working on and we have agreed that if and when he is able to completely take care of that one thing and we are both single we will definitely give it a try, I am pretty sure (though admittedly, not completely) that I couldn't kiss him on our first actual "date." I think for me it is more than perceived familiarity. I think I need several times in person with actual bodies in vicinity to each other before I feel comfortable with that. Interesting though, though. And probably quite relevant for many people.
Author AnyaNova Posted January 21, 2014 Author Posted January 21, 2014 That's all good. There was no offense taken, I was just wondering why you were classifying yourself as such. Anyway, yeah... don't worry, be yourself, compatible men will like you for you! If only such men weren't so few and far between. Especially at my age.
carhill Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I think for me it is more than perceived familiarity. I think I need several times in person with actual bodies in vicinity to each other before I feel comfortable with that. That's a really helpful answer. It sounds like you're very clear on that aspect. Tell me, how are you regarding personal space? I'm reading you as preferring some distance, in general, though are fine with close vicinity with familiars. Is that accurate or off? I mention it because of the way you outlined 'actual bodies in vicinity to each other'. When I think of the examples which came to mind prior to my post, our bodies have been quite in vicinity and there has been some of what folks call the 'mating dance' without any formal action, sometimes long prior to any dating activities. I tend to be very friendly with women anyway and have had platonic female friends over the decades so maybe my 'style' gets into closer 'vicinity' which might explain the perspective. Overall, my view is that you have your own style of dating interaction which you're apparently generally comfortable with but are examining because something about it isn't achieving what you want in dating. It is kind of fun examining the details of how we tick, yes? Oh, one last thought which did help me, long ago, when trying to change my style to progress dates better. I started thinking about kissing the lady, of course presuming we were getting on well and I felt attracted to her, more and earlier and letting that leak into my gaze, facial expressions and body language. This seemed to help, not only myself, but those dates who perhaps felt the same way but were waiting for 'the man' to initiate. I kind of talked myself into it.
Author AnyaNova Posted January 21, 2014 Author Posted January 21, 2014 That's a really helpful answer. It sounds like you're very clear on that aspect. Tell me, how are you regarding personal space? I'm reading you as preferring some distance, in general, though are fine with close vicinity with familiars. Is that accurate or off? I mention it because of the way you outlined 'actual bodies in vicinity to each other'. When I think of the examples which came to mind prior to my post, our bodies have been quite in vicinity and there has been some of what folks call the 'mating dance' without any formal action, sometimes long prior to any dating activities. I tend to be very friendly with women anyway and have had platonic female friends over the decades so maybe my 'style' gets into closer 'vicinity' which might explain the perspective. Overall, my view is that you have your own style of dating interaction which you're apparently generally comfortable with but are examining because something about it isn't achieving what you want in dating. It is kind of fun examining the details of how we tick, yes? Oh, one last thought which did help me, long ago, when trying to change my style to progress dates better. I started thinking about kissing the lady, of course presuming we were getting on well and I felt attracted to her, more and earlier and letting that leak into my gaze, facial expressions and body language. This seemed to help, not only myself, but those dates who perhaps felt the same way but were waiting for 'the man' to initiate. I kind of talked myself into it. I think you're assessment is quite right. Except with "familiars" I am more comfortable with more distance. But once you register in my mind as a familiar , closer is not a problem. It is rather odd, too, how that works,and sometimes who registers in my mind as familiar/safe enough to enter into my personal space comfortably for me and who doesn't. It is very fun examining the details of how we "tick." And that is exactly right. I am generally comfortable with my particular style, but was questioning its effectiveness. The conclusion that I have come to is that it may not be terribly effective for many men, but it will be for the kind of man I want. I suspect that sort of thing is probably not going to help me. Especially given some things, I suspect that I am just going to need time. But that is a good tip, and might be very helpful for some readers.
Eau Claire Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 It is important at the end of a date to give a man some confidence to contact you again. If you don't have a kiss then say something like : 'thank you for the nice evening. I enjoy being with you.' All so simple. If a man seemed shy and did not make a move to kiss me, I would give him a quick kiss on the cheek (if I liked him) when we parted. You can leave that off but definitely say something kind to give him encouragement.
Author AnyaNova Posted January 22, 2014 Author Posted January 22, 2014 It is important at the end of a date to give a man some confidence to contact you again. If you don't have a kiss then say something like : 'thank you for the nice evening. I enjoy being with you.' All so simple. If a man seemed shy and did not make a move to kiss me, I would give him a quick kiss on the cheek (if I liked him) when we parted. You can leave that off but definitely say something kind to give him encouragement. Yeah. I don't think I have it in me even to give a quick kiss on the cheek. Not on a first date. But yes. Obviously it is important to give him something to go on.
Recommended Posts