purplesorrow Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 Hello. My story in a nutshell. In February of 2013 I finally got proof that my husband had been cheating. The physical had ended by that time but they were still communicating. After the full story came out, his affair was 18 months, 12 of which was physical. He also confessed to 2 one night stands that he had in the 2 years prior. The first one was when I was pregnant, the second was the year after that and then the affair after that. Words can not express my pain. The horror of it all has been overwhelming. I didn't want to make a decision out of pain and anger, all though from day one I said I wanted a divorce. I made him move out in May of last year and we are still separated. He began individual counseling in March 2013 and still goes weekly. He really is trying to figure out and work through the mess he created. He told me from the beginning it was all his fault, It had nothing to do with me nor our marriage. He seems remorseful and appears to regret everything. He desperately wants to stay married. I am still so hurt and really do not know what I want. We have one 4 year old. I never imagined she would grow up with 2 homes. Some days I see the changes he is making and the work he is doing. He has been an open book the whole time. Gave all passwords and put a gps on his phone. He checks in with me all day. I want to know, those of you who chose to stay, how did you get to a place where you could respect a decision to stay? It is difficult when there is no justice. How do you get over the sheer cruelness of it all? Throwing you under the bus? Letting the other woman talk about me? Lying to my face, sneaking around? I just don' think I have It in me. Thanks for reading.
TiredFamilyGuy Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 You can decide what it would take him to do, for you to trust him. If nothing, then life is short and assuming it is possible, divorce and you will move on. Without trust, no marriage, in my opinion. 1
oldshirt Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 you may not have it in you to forgive and move forward. The damage and destruction may have been done and it may be unrepairable. Think of it like a terrible car accident. someone can crash their car, break their back and damage their spinal cord. They may receive the finest medical care, they may have the best insurance, they may go to the best spinal facility and be operated on by the finest spinal surgeons in the world but the damage was done in the split second of the accident and no amount of the most perfect after care in the world can restore what was lost. This is the risk cheater take when they cheat. We live in world where there are books written on how to survive an affair. Oprah and Ellen and Dr Phil interview 'experts' who tell us how to make amends and heal the pain and injury of affairs. There are countless websites like this one where people help each other through the storm and tell all the steps to take to recover. But the fact still remains that this is a huge blow and a big injury with a lot of damage. That damage may not be fixable. Just like a totaled car, the dents can be pushed out, the broken parts might be replaced. The scratches may be buffed out and repainted, but you never look at it in the same way again and the cost and the time and energy that goes into repairing it, far exceeds the value it will have when the repair is completed. and sometimes the frame is so bent and broken, the engine block cracked and transmission so damaged that all the kings horses and all the kings men aren't going to be able to get it running again. Sometimes with the time and cost of repairing a wrecked car, it's more cost effective in the long run to let the insurance company total it and buy a new one and get back on the road. That's still a loss and still a blow to the pocketbook at the time, but a year down the road you realize it was the best option. I'm rambling as usual but my point is, this wasn't an office attraction that got a little carried away and went too far. This was a pretty egregious and over the top violation. The damage was done in an instant over and over and over again. This may not be repairable and no one in the entire world would blame you or second guess you if you declared this a total loss and moved on. 7
Author purplesorrow Posted January 18, 2014 Author Posted January 18, 2014 Thank you both. I never thought I would get a divorce, I'm sure no one does. My thought of leaving really has nothing to do with some grand future with some man out there who doesn't even know I exist. More so to just be free of him. How do you ever look at someone the same? I have read the books and shows and been to the websites you have mentioned. I can not seem to see how this can be repaired and move forward to a happy and stronger marriage. How do you all that reconciled do that?
lilmisscantbewrong Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 Recovery is not for the faint of heart. It is very hard work. Some just decide it is too hard. An affair changes everything. There are some people that survive and marriages that do last for years afterwards, but others fail even after years of trying. Things can never be the same, nor should they be - this is what caused the problem to begin with. It is very sad because although I do love my husband, I do not view him with the same amount of respect I had for him prior to his affair (now I always question if he is telling the truth and before I never gave it a thought - I believed he was honest). I am certain he feels the exact same way about me. There is an innocence that is gone and can never be there again. Some days I wonder if we will make it. The love is there. The history is there. Our kids and grand kids - it's all there and worth fighting for, but it is hard. I wish you strength for your journey. 2
Mickey_Fitzpatrick Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 He seems remorseful and appears to regret everything. He desperately wants to stay married. I am still so hurt and really do not know what I want. We have one 4 year old. I never imagined she would grow up with 2 homes. Some days I see the changes he is making and the work he is doing. He has been an open book the whole time. Gave all passwords and put a gps on his phone. He checks in with me all day. I want to know, those of you who chose to stay, how did you get to a place where you could respect a decision to stay? It is difficult when there is no justice. How do you get over the sheer cruelness of it all? Throwing you under the bus? Letting the other woman talk about me? Lying to my face, sneaking around? I just don' think I have It in me. Thanks for reading. I had minimal amounts of those things and a much longer marriage. In your situation I'm not sure I could reconcile either. It sounds like he may have had a "come-to-Jesus" type of turnaround. Does he say why he had such drastic reversal of behavior? Do you ever bring this stuff up with him now - the cruelty, lying, throwing you under the bus, letting other woman talk about you? If so, what does he say about it? If you don't bring it up, why not? What kind of justice are you looking for? What could either of you do to satisfy your need for justice? If you stayed with him, do you feel he would be loyal now? Do you feel that he genuinely loves you and wants to be with you, or he is doing this for some other reason?
Author purplesorrow Posted January 18, 2014 Author Posted January 18, 2014 He says he is sickened by his behavior. That he is so sorry for the cruelty and lying and just all of it. He has written several letters of apology, mapping out all the different things he is sorry for. He said he is so ashamed and can not believe the person he became. He says he was just lost and doesn't want to be his dad (also cheated) He was so disgusted and wanted to be immediately on the day I confronted him, he called and told all of his friends and his parents and asked them all to support me because he was the one who was wrong. I think he really does want to change. He has done parenting classed to be a better dad. Honestly he is becoming the person I thought I married, not the shell of the man that had been walking around our house. We have been married 12 years. I don't know if he would cheat again, I would hope not. But then I never thought he would in the first place.
Mickey_Fitzpatrick Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 Have you fallen completely out of love with him? Do you have any sexual attraction? Do you have any physical contact? Do you want to try to live with him again to see if it gets any better?
Author purplesorrow Posted January 18, 2014 Author Posted January 18, 2014 I have none of those feelings. We do no have any physical contact. I have told him we would have to start from scratch and date again. Our friendship has to be reestablished because I expect more from a friendship than what he gave. I don't hate him, our conversations, even about his affair are very civil. He will still answer any question I have. I know that is because I have moved to a place of indifference. I would be fine financially and I am not afraid of starting over. I know my daughter isn't a reason to stay, but is she reason enough to try? Is that selfish of me. I have been very honest with him about my feelings. I just can't seem to take that first step in the direction of reconciliation. I'm frozen.
Mickey_Fitzpatrick Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 I have none of those feelings. We do no have any physical contact. I have told him we would have to start from scratch and date again. Our friendship has to be reestablished because I expect more from a friendship than what he gave. I don't hate him, our conversations, even about his affair are very civil. He will still answer any question I have. I know that is because I have moved to a place of indifference. I would be fine financially and I am not afraid of starting over. I know my daughter isn't a reason to stay, but is she reason enough to try? Is that selfish of me. I have been very honest with him about my feelings. I just can't seem to take that first step in the direction of reconciliation. I'm frozen. Sometimes the best move is no move. Sometimes you have to make a decision, one way or the other, for some reason. For example, if you get a job offer, usually you have a limited amount of time to decide, even if you are undecided. That does not seem to be your situation right now. When I have been initially unable to make a decision and put it off, eventually I realized what direction I was heading and what that decision should be. It seems that you are gradually convincing yourself to divorce him and move on. Maybe you need more time to come to terms with it, maybe something will happen in the interim to change your mind. I don't think there is any rush. I love my wife, but I would not have reconciled if I did not have kids. That said, I am happy that I did and the way things have worked out. So initially the kids did have a lot to do with me giving her another chance, as well has her doing all the right things, too.
Mickey_Fitzpatrick Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 I have told him we would have to start from scratch and date again. Has he asked you on a date yet?
Author purplesorrow Posted January 18, 2014 Author Posted January 18, 2014 No, he hasn't asked me on a date yet. He told his mom he is still working on becoming a better man, someone he thinks I would be interested in dating. I'm still working on myself as this is a lot to recover from. I do think if we continue as we are without any work on 'us'. We will both move to a decision to divorce because it is easier. Abscence has not made my heart grow fonder. I really do want to do what would be best for all 3 of us. Thank you for taking time to respond to me. I haven't told my family because I didn't feel it was my place and it would break my dad's heart. It is nice to get other's perspective.
Mickey_Fitzpatrick Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) I haven't told my family because I didn't feel it was my place and it would break my dad's heart. Haven't told them what? Do they know you are separated? If so, do they know why? His family knows, but yours does not? Edited January 18, 2014 by Mickey_Fitzpatrick
oldshirt Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 I have none of those feelings. We do no have any physical contact. . How much longer do you think he will stay and continue to work on things if you have no feelings for him and no physical contact? Any chance that is your objective here? Any chance you are building up a wall to force him to make a move and seal his fate as the bad guy? Any chance you are ready to throw in the towel but you are afraid that will make you look like you were the one to pull the plug so if you just cut him off from all warmth and affection then he will be the one that hits the ejection handle and then you can say that he cheated on you and divorced you and relieved you of any dirt on your hands? Don't get me wrong, you absolutely have just cause to file and move on with your life. I am just questioning why you haven't already done it. Is part of it because you want him to make that decision and for him to bare 100% of the responsibility of the divorce?
oldshirt Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 . My thought of leaving really has nothing to do with some grand future with some man out there who doesn't even know I exist. More so to just be free of him. When someone decides it's time to pull the plug when there isn't someone else, isn't a plan B in place and have no aspirations of finding Mr/Ms Perfect, they just want to get away from their partner and be free from him/her no matter how perfectly that person is acting now .....that's usually the time to actually do it. 1
oldshirt Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 Just some other random thoughts in no particular order or relevance to any of the discussions so far - - You are aware of two ONS and an ongoing affair. There is likely more that you don't know. - you have mentioned him going to IC and parenting classes. Are you in IC and have you two done any marital therapy? If not, why not? Why is he in parenting classes? Was he neglectful or abusive with your daughter? - you said you didn't want to make a decision immediately after DDay because you didn't want to make a decision in anger - OK, fair enough. but it's been almost a year since DDay and 8 months of separation. We all get that there is hurt, anger, resentment, loss etc etc but it can hardly be called the heat of the moment anymore. - he has showed progress and definitive steps in self-improvement. Have you made any progress and achieved any definitive steps in coming to terms with this and making any decisions towards your future??? - As he has been working hard and making strides in realizing what has happened and has taken big steps towards self-improvement and atonement for his wrongs, they day is going to come soon that he is going to tell you to $hit or get off the pot and it will be completely within his right to do so. he will have the right to know whether his life is going to move forward as a married man and father with a wife and child in the home. or move forward with his life as a divorced single father with shared custody. - His wanting to be the man that you would want to date speaks huge volumes. When he reaches that point, he will not only have the skills and confidence to interest you, but he will also have the traits, characteristics and confidence to interest every other woman. He will offer you an opportunity to reconcile for real and get back together. If you decline, he will be able to move on with someone else and he will be within his right to do so. - he has committed a great wrong and has a mountain of redemption to do. But he has been doing it. His sense of paying for his wrongs will only go so far. there will come a point where his life needs to go on too. You have the right to be hurt, disappointed and angry with him. You have a right to divorce him and leave him behind as you move on with your life. What you don't have the right to do is to punish him forever by putting him on the shelf and holding him in limbo forever not knowing which direction you are going to go. Eventually he will decide he has paid his dues enough, has sat in limbo enough and will move on. (a part of me thinks this is what you are wanting) - Separation is good for preparing people for divorce and life on their own. It does not help people reconcile. The longer you are separated the easier and less complicated divorce gets and the harder reconciliation gets. It's one thing to for someone to spend a few nights or a week or two in a hotel after DDay to let the dust settle and the tempers to settle down enough so that people can have some rational discussions. 8 months of separation is a long time. - the opposite of love isn't hate. love and hate are closely related and sometimes you can't really even have hate without the presence of love. the opposite of love in indifference. - Marriages can and do recover and move on to be happy and healthy after violations even worse than this one. people do recover and go on to live happy, healthy productive lives as married couples after worse. - Conversely people have divorced after much less and both parties have gone on to live very happy, healthy and fulfilling lives as divorced people. - no one can move forward and live a healthy and fulfilling lives by sitting on the fence and not moving one way or another. One of my favorite movie quotes is Morgan Freeman in the Shawshank Redemption - "Get busy living, or get busy dieing." It's time to move forward with your life. Move forward with reconciliation or move forward with divorce. You, your husband and your daughter can live happy, healthy and productive lives as a repatriated family or as a family of divorce. None of you can live in limbo much longer. Give divorce your full faith effort or give divorce your full faith effort. Both can have good outcomes. Sitting in limbo letting life pass you by and letting other people determine your fate is going to have a very bad outcome for you.
Author purplesorrow Posted January 18, 2014 Author Posted January 18, 2014 Thank you. You have both given a lot of points to ponder. My dad and a couple of siblings know that we are separated but not why. My only need in telling someone about his infidelity would be to seek support. I already know what my family's support will be, I've seen it...forgive and work it out. He isn't ready to work on us either because his ic is on going, so no, no marriage counseling yet. Here you must be separated one year before you could divorce so there really isn't much more I could do except wait. As to my therapy, I was in ic before I got proof and have remained. I wanted to be sure that we both want this for the right reasons. I think that sometimes rejection or feelings there of mimic love in trying to hold on. Thank you all. I have much to think about. I know that I mostly just have fear that he might do it again. Maybe I've been waiting for him to become some one I could take a leap of faith for again. The one thing I am sure of is I'm tired.
oldshirt Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 - he has showed progress and definitive steps in self-improvement. Have you made any progress and achieved any definitive steps in coming to terms with this and making any decisions towards your future??? - As he has been working hard and making strides in realizing what has happened and has taken big steps towards self-improvement and atonement for his wrongs, they day is going to come soon that he is going to tell you to $hit or get off the pot and it will be completely within his right to do so. he will have the right to know whether his life is going to move forward as a married man and father with a wife and child in the home. or move forward with his life as a divorced single father with shared custody. - His wanting to be the man that you would want to date speaks huge volumes. When he reaches that point, he will not only have the skills and confidence to interest you, but he will also have the traits, characteristics and confidence to interest every other woman. He will offer you an opportunity to reconcile for real and get back together. If you decline, he will be able to move on with someone else and he will be within his right to do so. - he has committed a great wrong and has a mountain of redemption to do. But he has been doing it. His sense of paying for his wrongs will only go so far. there will come a point where his life needs to go on too. You have the right to be hurt, disappointed and angry with him. You have a right to divorce him and leave him behind as you move on with your life. What you don't have the right to do is to punish him forever by putting him on the shelf and holding him in limbo forever not knowing which direction you are going to go. Eventually he will decide he has paid his dues enough, has sat in limbo enough and will move on. (a part of me thinks this is what you are wanting) I am a guy and while I have never cheated on my wife of 18 years, in my 20s I cheated on a serious GF so let me give you a little perspective from the cheaters point of view. When I got caught, I did feel shame and remorse and guilt etc and I begged her stay and work things out etc. She was understandably cautious and leery and had some hard feelings. In time I paid my dues, reearned her trust and we were able to move on for a couple more years until we realized we just weren't right for each other (she eventually came out and accepted she was gay and took up with another woman but that's a whole other topic LOL) During the reconciliation phase, I came to realize that I may have blown it big time and while I was working hard to reconcile and earn back her love and trust, I had to be honest and true to myself that if it didn't turn around I would have to take my lumps and swallow my pride and break up with her even though I was the one that initially wronged her. In other words, I still wanted a warm, loving relationship with someone who loved me and wanted to be with me. I accepted that I had wronged her and that she had just cause to no longer love me or be comfortable with me and that it was my fault. But that didn't change the fact that I still wanted a loving and viable relationship. If it wasn't going to be her, I could accept that but was going to move on. What I am saying is even though your husband committed the offense and wronged you, he still probably wants a loving relationship and marriage and if he can't have that with you, it will be within his right to cut his losses and move on. Where I'm going with this is if there is any part of you that wants to reconcile, you are going to have to make your move NOW! because the longer this separation and limbo goes on, the less likely you will be able to R successfully and every day you spend in limbo is a day of living lost. and if the R ultimately fails, you will regret all the time wasted that you could have been moving on. I suspect you are sitting on the fence in an effort to punish your husband and make him to crawl through broken glass and rusty thumbtacks and to do backflips and jump through hoops for you but in the end you want him to be the one to pull the plug. I discourage this for several reasons. the primary one is he who files first often gets the head start and gets the better deal in the settlement. He may have been the one who cheated but he is also the one who has been working on therapy and parenting classes and self-improvement etc. He is working hard to win back your trust and approval but as a man I can assure you that the day will come that he will see the futility of it and he will turn icy cold and his attentions and focus will be on moving on with his life and he will cut you out of it like a coyote chewing off his leg in a trap. He will divorce you but he is going to focus it on his terms and he will deliver it with cold ice water coursing through his veins. God only knows what he is going to try to do and what he is going to try to pull. (worse case scenario is he can document that he received therapy and parenting classes. He can get documentation showing he is emotionally sound and is a competent father. You have been emotionally distraught and indecisive for a year. Can you produce documentation from a shrink stating you are emotionally sound and can you document that you have received formal instruction on parenting????????????? see where I am going with this? :-O ) If you want to divorce, do it but do it on your terms and you be the one that's proactive and doing it on your terms. Get off the fence and get proactive. 1
Author purplesorrow Posted January 18, 2014 Author Posted January 18, 2014 Our separation is not to punish him. In fact a big part of why I hadn't moved to reconciliation early on was because I didn't want to punish him. I knew how angry and upset I was. I've also had therapy and I took parenting classes before I even had our daughter. I really don't think that 8 months is a long time to make a decision that effects the rest of your life. It is a decision that I don't take lightly. He has had much longer to deal with these types of thoughts. I feel like he already left our marriage the minute he sent his first inappropriate text or email or phone call. I've not asked anything of him except to learn to live an honest and authentic life. I don't want him to stay with me out of obligation. I don't want him to try to redeem himself by staying. I will get to a point of full forgiveness leave or stay.
Just_AGuy Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 When I found out I thought my life has shattered. Later I understood that it was my dreams that were shattered not my life. Dreams are just dreams, but life is real and I am no less alive than I were before I learned. 4
oldshirt Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 I will get to a point of full forgiveness leave or stay. And what I am saying is, you may never get to the point of full forgiveness. If you are waiting for some form of cosmic acceptance and forgiveness, you may spend your whole life waiting. My point is he isn't going to wait for you to achieve that level of enlightenment (or at least I wouldn't, his mileage may vary) he is going to work on himself until he believes he has himself worked out and his $hit together and is ready to move forward with life. (and you may not think he has reached that point when he thinks he has) When he reaches that point, he's going to want a stay or go answer from you and that is not an unrealistic or unreasonable demand. 8 months may not be enough time to adequately determine how the rest of your lives is going to play out. You will never know that. If you are waiting for assurances that he'll never cheat, assurances that you'll never cheat, assurances that you'll love him and feel warm fuzzys for him forever again etc etc etc those assurances are never going to come. Nothing is ever going to come with any guarentees. The question you have to answer for yourself is are you going to put your efforts into reconciliation or your efforts into divorcing and moving on. And please realize I am not trying to get you to make that decision now. I am just trying to get you to realize that even though he was the one that screwed the pooch, in time he will decide he has done all he can and he will expect to move forward one way or the other. He won't sit in limbo forever waiting for you to make up your mind.
Just_AGuy Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 I know a person who cheated and he said his wife still remember that even after almost 20 years.... He still cheats but his wife does not seem to know. Not saying what you should do. It is very personal decision. Some marriages can be saved but I believe it takes way more effort to save marriage than just divorce and try to start new life. From my short personal experience (have been in one marriage only so far, I am 39) there are people who would cheat and those who wont. And there are about half of one kind and half of the other kind.
oldshirt Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Some marriages can be saved but I believe it takes way more effort to save marriage than just divorce and try to start new life. . "It's easier to give birth than to resurrect the dead." -Athol Kay The real challenge is knowing when the marriage is truly dead and knowing where that break even point is.
BeholdtheMan Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 How do you ever look at someone the same? Given the magnitude of his betrayal, the answer is you don't You're experiencing a complete lack of trust and respect for a spouse who has deceived and cheated on you. That's normal. Your feelings are justified. Forgiveness is an option, but it's not necessarily the best option or even viable. You might want to consider divorce and moving on. Life is short. Why spend it with a cheater? 1
Author purplesorrow Posted January 20, 2014 Author Posted January 20, 2014 I know, it is really my heart that is in turmoil. My brain has actively moved toward divorce through action. The separation, I go to divorce care, never discussed reconciliation in IC, part time job to pay off the little debt I had, living on a much stricter budget. I think I'm still just emotionally sad. With having to be separated for a year there isn't much else I feel I can do. I won't date or even look until we are done. Maybe I've wanted a reason to reconcile that just doesn't exist. I do consider at times trying because of our child.
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