youdunsay Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 Some articles mentioned that in the first few dates or even first sight men would know whether they want you for long term relationship or marriage. Men, can you explain further on how women are categorized base on your criteria? What are the details or situational issues and how it is being analyzed?
potsticker Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 some articles also say that men hate you when you help them with something because it emasculates them. Some articles are full of it. 2
gaius Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 some articles also say that men hate you when you help them with something because it emasculates them. Some articles are full of it. That actually sounds about right. In the 15 years since puberty hit I've run into a grand total of 3 women I could see myself in a significant long term relationship with, maybe even marriage. It's hard to explain why. They all met my needs on a level I'm not totally consciously aware of. The rest were great girls, they had a ton going for them, but there was just something lacking. And yes, it doesn't take you long to figure out which is which. 1
salparadise Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 Some articles mentioned that in the first few dates or even first sight men would know whether they want you for long term relationship or marriage. Men, can you explain further on how women are categorized base on your criteria? What are the details or situational issues and how it is being analyzed? It's mostly intuitive as opposed to being based on criteria. Criteria is just a checklist of compatible items. I met a woman online about a year ago whom I thought had enormous potential. She met the criteria, looked nice in her pics, held up her end of the conversations, smart, charming... no red flags, no negatives other than living a little distance away. We were both enthusiastic and hoping the attraction would be strong when we met. We set it up at a restaurant. I got there early, got us a great table. When she walked in the door I got a jolt of adrenaline at first sight (based on anticipation) but before she had even taken her seat I knew that the vibe wasn't there. We went ahead and ate, and it definitely was not there, and it was mutual. We exchanged a few texts afterward, both expressing disappointment but accepting what was obvious. There is something that happens between men and women that can't be explained by science. The best analogy I know of is the concept of matching wavelengths. If you match there is energy and synergy. If not, well, it just doesn't happen. It's not always instant like in the story I shared, but at some point you just realize that the energy is either being generated or it's not.
Frank2thepoint Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 It's mostly intuitive as opposed to being based on criteria. Criteria is just a checklist of compatible items. I met a woman online about a year ago whom I thought had enormous potential. She met the criteria, looked nice in her pics, held up her end of the conversations, smart, charming... no red flags, no negatives other than living a little distance away. We were both enthusiastic and hoping the attraction would be strong when we met. We set it up at a restaurant. I got there early, got us a great table. When she walked in the door I got a jolt of adrenaline at first sight (based on anticipation) but before she had even taken her seat I knew that the vibe wasn't there. We went ahead and ate, and it definitely was not there, and it was mutual. We exchanged a few texts afterward, both expressing disappointment but accepting what was obvious. What struck me about this is maybe both of you had built up this fantasy of each other before actually meeting. Both of you had placed each other on a pedestal, without intentionally wanting to of course. When you guys finally met in person, reality kicked in, and that fantasy bubble was bust. 1
Targetlock Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 I do this all the time I always get carried away with my emotions and my ideas only for the reality to turn out not as good as i thought (she not as interested in me as a thought etc) And yes i believe it is very much a same wavelength, synergy when you know you know, it just clicks. it hasn't happened for me yet, but I've heard so many stories of this.
salparadise Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 What struck me about this is maybe both of you had built up this fantasy of each other before actually meeting. Both of you had placed each other on a pedestal, without intentionally wanting to of course. When you guys finally met in person, reality kicked in, and that fantasy bubble was bust. In one sense that may be true, but there were no inconsistencies between what was previously known and what was revealed when we met. We simply didn't have that matching wavelength, aura, chemistry or whatever you want to call the part that defies definition. I have felt that energy without expecting it and become weak in the knees, but in this case we were expecting it––or at least hoping for a little bit of it––and it wasn't there at all. A couple of years ago I traveled a long way to meet someone and that energy was there, much greater than expected, and we were drawn to one another like magnets. I don't believe there is any logical explanation.
somedude81 Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Yup, as soon as I get on a second date with a woman, I know that I want to be in a LTR with her.
Leigh 87 Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Men do know. It is just a feeling. My good friend met her future husband at a gay club. He was out every weekend having one night stands, he didn't want a relationship. The second he saw HER, however, he had to be with her. There was just great chemistry. They were on the same wavelength. Yes, she is stunning, but he had other stunning girls he took home every weekend also. As a woman, I also know right away. I went on a second date a few months ago with a guy with potential (on paper), yet I just didn't "feel it" with him. 3
Teraskas Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 I do this all the time I always get carried away with my emotions and my ideas only for the reality to turn out not as good as i thought (she not as interested in me as a thought etc) And yes i believe it is very much a same wavelength, synergy when you know you know, it just clicks. it hasn't happened for me yet, but I've heard so many stories of this. Thank god I'm not alone in this, was beginning to think I was flawed in some way for doing this. Agreed, it's important to find someone on the same wavelength. Yet these days, that seems like an impossible task, lol. :/
SYLLPalmer Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 I am just playing devils advocate. If men know so much than why is divorce so prevalent. Seems to me their picker is broken. The remaining marriages are NOT all stellar. Even if 20% were perfect .... that is an 80% failure rate. Now granted other things play into this, greatly. Still if going on the premise of gut feeling I would say they would be better off in most instances enforcing a 5 date min before tossing a potentially goodie away. Either that or going against their gut. If friendship develops so too does love. That being said repugnance should never be endured.
salparadise Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) I am just playing devils advocate. If men know so much than why is divorce so prevalent. Seems to me their picker is broken. The remaining marriages are NOT all stellar. Even if 20% were perfect .... that is an 80% failure rate. Now granted other things play into this, greatly. Still if going on the premise of gut feeling I would say they would be better off in most instances enforcing a 5 date min before tossing a potentially goodie away. Either that or going against their gut. If friendship develops so too does love. I'm not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that it's the men's pickers that are broken. Is it not mutual failure since it takes two to make a couple? Or do you believe that men have more than half of the responsibility for picking the right person? Actually, I think it's more often the women doing the choosing at the start of a relationship. Assuming that both people are invested and want their marriage to be a success, I think the majority of failures happen like this... the two are attracted and enter a relationship based on the belief that the other partner is capable of meeting their needs, healing their wounds, and making them whole. It's an attempt to reunite with one's whole self, a part of which was split off during childhood in order to be who we were expected to be––to excise our unacceptable aspects to secure the parent's love and acceptance. Since it was the parents for whom we split off parts of ourselves, our subconscious believes that someone who resembles our parents (the imago composite) will hold the key to healing and becoming whole again. But the partner we choose has no real ability to make us whole in this way, and in fact, may have their own expectations requiring us to split off another piece to secure their love and acceptance. As the limerence stage of the new relationship wanes, the partners begin to realize that the other has no ability to reunite them with these lost parts of the self and it begins to feel like a breach of contract, broken promises. The partners maneuver to get the other's attention but it feels overly demanding, like conflict. They lose respect, pout, retaliate and so on until their resentment builds to an intolerable level. At this point something has to give. They may go to counseling, one or both have extramarital affairs, or one of them leaves and files for divorce after a period of open conflict or passive divestment. So while initial attraction is almost certainly connected to the expectations that are responsible for unraveling the relationship, it's tangental and not causal. The failure is caused by infantile backlash to the unmet expectation that our spouse would restore our whole, perfect self as we were at birth. PS: yes, I know it's highly theoretical and not provable. I'm just putting it out there and not trying to sell anything. Edited January 20, 2014 by salparadise
Frank2thepoint Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 My good friend met her future husband at a gay club. He was out every weekend having one night stands, he didn't want a relationship. Did I just read that right? Are you saying there is a treasure trove of single, heterosexual ladies hanging out at gay bars?
Phoe Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 My boyfriend knew by the end of our first date. He later told me that he liked me so much that he decided not to try to kiss me, that he wanted to move slow and respect me, so to speak. He said he'd never had a first date where he didn't kiss the girl, so by not kissing me it meant he really liked me.
carhill Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Men, can you explain further on how women are categorized base on your criteria? For myself, they were categorized primarily by emotional stability over time; how they reacted to and addressed issues in their own lives, as well as within our dating dynamic. While I've only been married once, it was my exW's comparatively calm demeanor and general consistency between word and action that, all else being equal, promoted her to 'marriage material' for myself. What are the details or situational issues and how it is being analyzed? YMMV but for myself it was more of a feeling of confidence in the synergy of our interactions than any discrete analysis of specifics. Where LTR's didn't work out, forensics may have addressed specifics to better understand for the future but in the moment it was more 'gut' than 'head'. Over time, and with failure and success, the head helped the gut fine tune its perception. Some articles mentioned that in the first few dates or even first sight men would know whether they want you for long term relationship or marriage. That would be a negative for myself, so outlier to that assertion. It has always taken time and getting to know.
SYLLPalmer Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I'm not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that it's the men's pickers that are broken. Is it not mutual failure since it takes two to make a couple? Or do you believe that men have more than half of the responsibility for picking the right person? Actually, I think it's more often the women doing the choosing at the start of a relationship. Assuming that both people are invested and want their marriage to be a success, I think the majority of failures happen like this... the two are attracted and enter a relationship based on the belief that the other partner is capable of meeting their needs, healing their wounds, and making them whole. It's an attempt to reunite with one's whole self, a part of which was split off during childhood in order to be who we were expected to be––to excise our unacceptable aspects to secure the parent's love and acceptance. Since it was the parents for whom we split off parts of ourselves, our subconscious believes that someone who resembles our parents (the imago composite) will hold the key to healing and becoming whole again. But the partner we choose has no real ability to make us whole in this way, and in fact, may have their own expectations requiring us to split off another piece to secure their love and acceptance. As the limerence stage of the new relationship wanes, the partners begin to realize that the other has no ability to reunite them with these lost parts of the self and it begins to feel like a breach of contract, broken promises. The partners maneuver to get the other's attention but it feels overly demanding, like conflict. They lose respect, pout, retaliate and so on until their resentment builds to an intolerable level. At this point something has to give. They may go to counseling, one or both have extramarital affairs, or one of them leaves and files for divorce after a period of open conflict or passive divestment. So while initial attraction is almost certainly connected to the expectations that are responsible for unraveling the relationship, it's tangental and not causal. The failure is caused by infantile backlash to the unmet expectation that our spouse would restore our whole, perfect self as we were at birth. PS: yes, I know it's highly theoretical and not provable. I'm just putting it out there and not trying to sell anything. Of course it is more a matter of mutual failure and I agree with the theoretical basis of the assertion that you outlined here. What I am merely pointing out is the flaws in the rule out process. I think a vast majority of us could benefit from structured didactic course work with directed study into selecting mates and cultivating relationships. Sexed100 Consequences of rushed intimacy Sexed101 Male sexual physiology for women Sexed101F Female sexual physiology for men Sexed102 Female sexual physiology from the home court perspective Sexed102M Male sexual physiology from the home court perspective I could author a menu of lecture topics for a masters program easily. The things that really **** us up in life I think we should have education and study in from early on. When I was young this is what I hoped Chemistry class was to really be about. 1
Woggle Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 It took me a few months. There was instant attraction but once I saw she was a genuinely good woman I wanted to make her my wife. 1
Mondmellonw Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 My boyfriend knew by the end of our first date. He later told me that he liked me so much that he decided not to try to kiss me, that he wanted to move slow and respect me, so to speak. He said he'd never had a first date where he didn't kiss the girl, so by not kissing me it meant he really liked me. Ex did the same. Haven't kissed til we were boyfriend-girlfriend. Things went bad and I broke up with him. He started to date a friend of mine, and for what a mutual friend told me (...) they kissed on the first date, a lot. Dunno. This doesn't even has to do anything with the thread, lol.
Aquanut Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I hardly ever kiss on first date. Only if I like her and she makes the move to kiss me. I can never, ever tell after the first date. Sometimes I do get a strong feeling after a week or two. But it takes 2-3 months to get to know someone well enough to know for sure if it's headed for long term. If the budding relationship survives that crucial 2-3 month juncture it has always gone on to last a year or more.
StalwartMind Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I think that highly depends on how insightful your first dates/encounters are. Hopefully both parts are pretty sincere about their expectations and desires and can find a pace that suits them both to progress at. If a woman/man is shy, it may take longer to make that person feel comfortable and so on and so forth. There is no recipe for how a man judges a potential partner, we are all different thankfully. If you are yourself, sincere, consistent, can and are willing to communicate without beating around the bush, then you have my attention and the basis for at least a friendship to start with. I highly doubt I'm alone on this one but I can see potential in friendships and relationships in most people that just fulfill basic requirements and are straightforward. I don't care if you are shy or a social buzzing bee, I adapt well to most people with common sense.
GravityMan Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Did I just read that right? Are you saying there is a treasure trove of single, heterosexual ladies hanging out at gay bars? My understanding is that it's not all that uncommon for hetero women to go out to gay bars with their friends. Usually because they just want to enjoy a good night out with their friends without getting hit on and leered at by unsavory straight men left and right. 1
Barbarossa Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I would say the article is pretty accurate I can tell after talking to a woman a couple times if she's LTR material. That being said I don't understand how I know at all and this woman is a rarity.
Woggle Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 It takes longer than a few minutes to see a person's true colors. This is something that reveals itself over time. 3
Frank2thepoint Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 My understanding is that it's not all that uncommon for hetero women to go out to gay bars with their friends. Usually because they just want to enjoy a good night out with their friends without getting hit on and leered at by unsavory straight men left and right. I actually heard stories from hetero women hanging out at gay bars and clubs. They said the lesbians are way more aggressive than the hetero men. 1
salparadise Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Of course it is more a matter of mutual failure and I agree with the theoretical basis of the assertion that you outlined here. What I am merely pointing out is the flaws in the rule out process. I think a vast majority of us could benefit from structured didactic course work with directed study into selecting mates and cultivating relationships. Sexed100 Consequences of rushed intimacy Sexed101 Male sexual physiology for women Sexed101F Female sexual physiology for men Sexed102 Female sexual physiology from the home court perspective Sexed102M Male sexual physiology from the home court perspective I could author a menu of lecture topics for a masters program easily. The things that really **** us up in life I think we should have education and study in from early on. When I was young this is what I hoped Chemistry class was to really be about. Yes. Absolutely agree. I didn't learn many important things until the mid-point in a 23 year marriage when I realized something was upside down and started researching and going to counseling (she would never go). I was naive before getting married and if I had known even a little bit of what I subsequently learned it would have changed my life. I also think new parents should take classes in developmental psychology and parenting skills. There are so many parents who mean well but simply don't understand basic concepts. They keep passing issues from generation to generation by making exactly the same mistakes their parents made when perhaps all that's needed is a bit of awareness. Anyway, this thread is about attraction and chemistry being recognized early, and I think we all understand within seconds of meeting someone whether we're on those matching wavelengths that facilitate attraction. The problem is that attraction and true compatibility are not one in the same. There are a lot of couples who resonate because each person's basic dysfunction attracts the other's. They're the yen for each other's yang, but not in a healthy way. 3
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