Break up with Sex Addict / BPD

[dreamingoftigers]

Thank you DoT, you definitely hit another nail on the head. I cannot thank you all enough even for what the last couple of hours is doing for me. Obviously it's a long road ahead, but you have been a kick in the ass I needed.

 

As of ACOA, I definitely recognize a pattern of "suffering for love if we really care", of staying long after reason dictates. I had honestly thought I'd moved past any type of rescue patterns, but clearly that's not the case.

 

I am so happy for you that you have overcome this. Despite how it's affected me, I have seen glimmers of the pain my boyfriend has suffered, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Not even myself anymore

 

Again, thank you all.

 

I was trying to type a long post to you and Emilia but then my phone ate it! Arg.

 

I have had some stressful events as of late so I stopped into Community Mental Health here in Newfoundland. I think as a BPD sufferer that it is important to recheck after stressful times.

 

I no longer get the "emotional flooding" or suicide (trying to end the pain) urges that I used to. But even having worked through many issues I still have some significant self-destructive traits (binge-eating for example).

 

It takes time, focus and energy to realize that tje behaviours need not be something to be ashamed of, but worked through and as time goes on I hope and work toward my coping skills improving.

 

Having a supportive partner makes a difference only as long as I am returning that support and not using them as a crutch.

 

Enjoy your youth! Don't waste it trying to play California Closets with someone else's emotional baggage! We all have plenty of our own.

 

BPD (especially a sexually addicted BPD that is as deep in as he is) will not disappear in a year or so. He will need to be conscious of it, not using it as a ticket to behave recklessly and be working consciously to HONESTLY track his behaviour and remain accountable.

[dreamingoftigers]

If the sex addiction thing is the case (and it sounds like it is) you are dealing with cross addiction, and personality disorder.

 

I spent a lot of time working with mental health and addiction. Your partner would be in the category of 'complex addiction' ie unable to help through general residential rehab, or therapy. They are usually referred to a psychiatric program.

 

It isn't at all because they are impossible to help, but that it is usually a case of several relapses, and it is hard to get both the addiction and bpd under control for any length of time. I feel for you on this one, it is really really hard.

 

Where I was from there were 10 out of 100 people who would successfully keep their addiction and bpd symptoms under control for a year following treatment (with ongoing therapy), of those 10, only 2 would continue to keep things under control for more than a year.

 

The numbers speak volumes.

 

They need to seriously use EMDR as part if genersl treatment for BPD. Especially cross-addicted BPD.

 

Standard therapy for BPD patients tries too hard to load up cognitive changes on people that have inherent difficulty due to trauma making cognitive changes!

 

Fix the trauma without talk therapy first and the left and right lobes communicate better, laying a better foundation for cognitive change.

Clearly the BPD "hospitalize catch and release gane" doesn't work very well.

 

A 2% long-term success rate is abysmal at best.

 

AA has slightly better numbers.

But as long as we keep trying to shame BPD people with talk therapy, treatment goes nowhere and they can pretend to be well better than standard mental health can pretend to be competent. Then you have to let them go and watvh them fall flat on their faces again. No good

[dreamingoftigers]

Just for the record: Borderline Personality Disorder and Bipolar are two very different disorders.

 

I had an ex with bipolar. Thank goodness we didn't have kids!

[Downtown]

Tara, welcome to the LoveShack forum. I agree with the BPD advice you've already been given by Emilia and Dreaming. You are fortunate to have attracted their attention because both are very experienced with BPD. I also agree with Melell's insightful comments about bipolar disorder and addictions. I say this based on my experiences with my bipolar-1 foster son.

I noticed scars on his arms and torso from cutting himself. He disclosed that he has Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).

IME, the vast majority of BPDers (i.e., those having strong traits) are high functioning, a group that typically does NOT do cutting (except in rare cases where severe stress pushes them into a temporary low functioning state). The cutting behavior therefore is generally regarded as a sign of low-functioning BPD.

He has been a wonderful boyfriend for our year together, treating me very well.

Likewise, my BPDer exW was a delight to date for a year, while we were living apart. I suspect that you would have quickly started seeing the abusive side of him, however, if you had made the mistake of moving in with him. Ironically, it therefore sounds like your surgical procedure (which delayed your move) may have saved you from suffering an enormous amount of pain.

What are your thoughts on the article, "The Male Borderline"?

I agree with Emilia that the author is, to some extent, "projecting her own views and values in that article." The author is Shari Schreiber, who is not a licensed therapist. In my view, Schreiber confuses BPD with full-blown narcissism. Indeed, in the article you cite, she claims that all BPDers are narcissists.

 

Granted, a recent large-scale study (pub. 2008) found that a third of female BPDers and nearly half of male BPDers also have full-blown NPD. See PubMed Central, Table 3: J Clin Psychiatry. 2008 April; 69(4): 533?545.. This does not imply, however, that all BPDers are narcissists. Nor does it imply that all the narcissistic traits are BPD traits. If they were, there would be no need for separate categories.

Yes, my mother was an alcoholic/drug addict/bulimic.

Like you, I grew up with an alcoholic parent (my dad). Such an environment often results in the child growing up "too fast" and becoming the little adult in the family (on whom the other parent relies too much for unmet needs).

 

The best explanation I've seen for how we excessive caregivers grow up to be this way is provided in a lengthy article by Schreiber. She argues that this type of childhood results in us having a desire to be needed (for what we can do) that FAR exceeds our desire to be loved (for the individuals we already are). Although I don't like Schreiber's confusion of BPD and NPD in the article you cite above, I nonetheless consider this other article one of my favorites. It is available at DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?.

I am not interested in staying with him now, but I am very unsure what to do if he actually follows through with treatment.

His having the self awareness to acknowledge having BPD is a remarkable accomplishment. I've not seen any statistics on it but I would guess that only about 5% of BPDers ever have that level of self awareness. But, sadly, that alone is not sufficient to get him out of the woods.

 

In addition, he also must have sufficient ego strength to be willing to work hard in a BPD treatment program for many years -- to learn the coping skills he had no opportunity to learn when he was a young child. I would be surprised if as much as 1% of BPDers have both of those assets: the self awareness and the ego strength. The result is that it is rare for a BPDer to remain in therapy long enough to make a real difference.

 

Even when they do remain in therapy -- as my exW did for 15 years of weekly sessions with six psychologists -- most will just play mind games with the therapist. The therapy works only is the BPDer is strongly self motivated to work hard at it.

[dreamingoftigers]

Tara, welcome to the LoveShack forum. I agree with the BPD advice you've already been given by Emilia and Dreaming. You are fortunate to have attracted their attention because both are very experienced with BPD. I also agree with Melell's insightful comments about bipolar disorder and addictions. I say this based on my experiences with my bipolar-1 foster son.IME, the vast majority of BPDers (i.e., those having strong traits) are high functioning, a group that typically does NOT do cutting (except in rare cases where severe stress pushes them into a temporary low functioning state). The cutting behavior therefore is generally regarded as a sign of low-functioning BPD.Likewise, my BPDer exW was a delight to date for a year, while we were living apart. I suspect that you would have quickly started seeing the abusive side of him, however, if you had made the mistake of moving in with him. Ironically, it therefore sounds like your surgical procedure (which delayed your move) may have saved you from suffering an enormous amount of pain.I agree with Emilia that the author is, to some extent, "projecting her own views and values in that article." The author is Shari Schreiber, who is not a licensed therapist. In my view, Schreiber confuses BPD with full-blown narcissism. Indeed, in the article you cite, she claims that all BPDers are narcissists.

 

Granted, a recent large-scale study (pub. 2008) found that a third of female BPDers and nearly half of male BPDers also have full-blown NPD. See PubMed Central, Table 3: J Clin Psychiatry. 2008 April; 69(4): 533?545.. This does not imply, however, that all BPDers are narcissists. Nor does it imply that all the narcissistic traits are BPD traits. If they were, there would be no need for separate categories.

Like you, I grew up with an alcoholic parent (my dad). Such an environment often results in the child growing up "too fast" and becoming the little adult in the family (on whom the other parent relies too much for unmet needs).

 

The best explanation I've seen for how we excessive caregivers grow up to be this way is provided in a lengthy article by Schreiber. She argues that this type of childhood results in us having a desire to be needed (for what we can do) that FAR exceeds our desire to be loved (for the individuals we already are). Although I don't like Schreiber's confusion of BPD and NPD in the article you cite above, I nonetheless consider this other article one of my favorites. It is available at DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?.His having the self awareness to acknowledge having BPD is a remarkable accomplishment. I've not seen any statistics on it but I would guess that only about 5% of BPDers ever have that level of self awareness. But, sadly, that alone is not sufficient to get him out of the woods.

 

In addition, he also must have sufficient ego strength to be willing to work hard in a BPD treatment program for many years -- to learn the coping skills he had no opportunity to learn when he was a young child. I would be surprised if as much as 1% of BPDers have both of those assets: the self awareness and the ego strength. The result is that it is rare for a BPDer to remain in therapy long enough to make a real difference.

 

Even when they do remain in therapy -- as my exW did for 15 years of weekly sessions with six psychologists -- most will just play mind games with the therapist. The therapy works only is the BPDer is strongly self motivated to work hard at it.

 

In recent history I have met two BPD people.

One was high-functioning and went through treatment with maternal support.

Her BPD has resolved so well that it didn't even trip my instincts when we started talking.

It wasn't until hour two or so of hanging out that I casually mentioned BPD and she told me in confudence (just didnt want coworkers knowing, I am not linked with her it is more than safe here).

 

I (for some reason or another) have managed to keep my instincts even though I have had trauma therapy. In fact, I believe that I still rely on that part of my brain a little too much day-to-day. (It breeds anxiety). There have only been a handful of people I have met in my lifetime that have instincts that are super-sharp compared to mine.

 

The other BPD person was one for sure. She wandered into my yard at the end of November with no shoes or socks. Very poor self-management skills. I picked up on the BPD just looking at her. Not because she was drunk or sloppy or anything like that.

 

It's hard to articulate. It's as though she looked in my yard and knew exactly where to go. She had skipped about 8 or so houses on the trip down the alley with no footwear. But she knew as soon as she came across mine that there would be reception.

 

People leave clues to who they are everywhere. How they dress. Their hair. Eye makeup is a big one I find. How long they stare. And from my previous experience panhandling: even how they DRIVE. Many BPD people can pick up a very full portrait from a lot of people from a first impression. And accurate too.

 

The thing is, they can't self-manage.

 

Frankly, the healthier the person, the harder they are to read. IMHO. I never felt more flattered when that woman (who stayed at my place a little over a week) alternated between sobbing, begging, gratuitous complements and bits of anger at the end of it asked why she couldn't pick up on what I was thinking moment to moment. I kind of laughed. I'm glad I don't wear my heart on my sleeve anymore!

 

You can feel BPD because you feel an INTENSITY radiating off of the person. They get under your skin super-fast. They mirror you. They feel what you feel and then when they break away super fast from that you feel kind of "swirled around" inside.

 

If your boundaries aren't great it can feel like a fun whirlwind. Or like magic. Or "oh wow someone gets me!"

 

If you've been through it before you notice that somehow someone crept past your emotional safe zone.

 

Be really careful how you FEEL when you first meet someone. Your body will tell you long before your mind can process it all.

[Emilia]

I know this will sound weird but I'm glad I've encountered BPD because to me what they are capable of in terms of mirroring and reading people is incredible. In many ways I respect it. You can all correct me if I'm wrong but I agree with another poster here on LS who once said that BPDers were just incredibly sensitive people who didn't have the means to process the flooding of emotions.

 

DoT is right about boundaries, I am much more careful with anyone I meet in a romantic context, especially when it's a man that I perceive to be more on the emotional side.

[Emilia]

How are you doing Tara? Are you around?

[tara83]

Hi Emilia,

 

Yes I'm around, came to check in. Things have been emotional and crazy busy the last few days and I am still absorbing everything you have all offered.

 

I will post a longer reply shortly, just have a few work things to get through first.

[Emilia]

Hi Emilia,

 

Yes I'm around, came to check in. Things have been emotional and crazy busy the last few days and I am still absorbing everything you have all offered.

 

I will post a longer reply shortly, just have a few work things to get through first.

Take your time. If you need a break from it certainly don't feel obligated to post.

[Emilia]

How are you doing Tara?

[M30USA]

I know this will sound weird but I'm glad I've encountered BPD because to me what they are capable of in terms of mirroring and reading people is incredible. In many ways I respect it. You can all correct me if I'm wrong but I agree with another poster here on LS who once said that BPDers were just incredibly sensitive people who didn't have the means to process the flooding of emotions.

 

DoT is right about boundaries, I am much more careful with anyone I meet in a romantic context, especially when it's a man that I perceive to be more on the emotional side.

 

In a way I'm also glad I've encountered BPD. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger...and wiser. I always assumed people meant what they said and said what they meant. Now I realize that not everybody is forthcoming with their motives.

[Emilia]

In a way I'm also glad I've encountered BPD. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger...and wiser. I always assumed people meant what they said and said what they meant. Now I realize that not everybody is forthcoming with their motives.

Yes, I've never experienced growth spurt to such a degree before. You learn a lot about human nature at its very basic form.

[pseudosauce]

I don't like immediately branding OP "codependent" her relationship sounded idyllic before she discovered the issue at hand. She has stated her intention to leave her boyfriend and seemed to be looking for insight on the disease that her SO had led her to believe was no longer an issue. Even if she stayed with him on a trial period wherein he agreed to delete everything (part of which is confirmed to a big source of income for him) that is not codependent, she is helping him as he has begun to slip (in light of suspicious activity found only in the last few months of the relationship as well as years before with a large remission period coinciding with treatment) and he is open to changing.

 

I see so many posts where people are lighting quick to label and dismiss people, if current or former BDP people, with or without sex addiction are unfit for relationships of any kind, what is the motivation to seek help? Personal peace is important, but it is the rare person who doesn't seek love in their life, if we are to label entire tracts of the population as "undateable" no matter how hard they try to improve themselves, I see a very bleak future in which more and more people are marginalized.

 

Continuing the Internet forum tradition of "the blind leading the blind" and full disclosure, I am currently in the process of extricating myself from an extremely codependent relationship, and have a raft of issues myself, but it is his ongoing actions and my acceptance of the unacceptable that makes it that way. Being unwilling to immediately kick someone to the curb who is being open and honest, and has a miraculous history of responding well to treatment and medication in the past and willing to fully embrace any and all professional help... I don't know if that's too much to ask...

 

Either that or I can open the first "BDP" colony, and start with my boyfriend, hehe

Edited April 8, 2014 by pseudosauce
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[VeronicaRoss]

Tara,

 

My father is a sex addict and not surprisingly I was involved with a few romantically too. The boyfriends didn't at all seem like sex addicts, more like boy scouts. It's very tricky stuff. That said my life completely changed when I went into recovery as a co-dependent to sex addicts. I rebuilt myself and life got better in every way -- financially, emotionally, mentally, physically. That journey started almost 20 years ago, I'm still on it.

 

I was concerned that you somehow got a stat that said there is a 70% recovery rate, that's wishful thinking. You could flip that percentage and still be in wishful thinking. Read a few books by Patrick Carnes, MD, he's one of the original doctors to make the connection between sex and addiction. He believes it's the addiction behind most alcoholism too.

 

You need a ton more help than we can offer you, you need real people in your world who can help you day in and day out though you're sure getting great advice here too. There is a great resource for you, 'S-Anon'. It's for partners of sex addicts. You will not believe how familiar the stories are. You're not alone. Find a group in your area and go. As long as the group is focused on their own recovery and not on stories about the sex addict, you've found a good group. You'll hear them, that's part of recovery, but the focus should be on the people in the room and their own lives and growth.

 

The more you focus on the addict, their behavior, their actions and your reactions to their actions you're staying deep in your own illness. Chances are very high you're using this relationship to run away from your own health, growth and happiness. That's the nut you really need to crack. The real exciting journey is discovering and supporting who you are when you leave behind trying to fix others.