The Past

[Quiet Storm]

There are a lot threads about the past and if it's necessary to disclose things you may now be ashamed of.

 

What surprises me is the number of people that believe they won't be judged.

 

If we don't pay our bills, we will get bad credit. We may not be able to buy a house or finance a car. It doesn't matter if we were only 22 and broke. We have consequences.

 

When we go to a job interview, we take our c.v. or resume. The past matters. If you were fired from a previous job for missing a lot of time, they could reject you for that, even if you were going through a bad breakup and you're over it now.

 

If a kid in high school gets bad grades, he won't get into the college of his choice. He can explain he was immature and distracted, and stays on task now. His new outlook on life isn't likely to sway admissions.

 

If we get a lot of speeding tickets, our insurance rates will go up, even if we vow never to speed again.

 

Our actions matter in all these different ways, but not when we are choosing a life partner?

 

I think its ok to have certain standards for the person you choose to marry. It is a lifelong commitment. It's your best friend, your lover, your coparent. The person you'll be with until you're counting his pills and hes steadying you on the stairs. Why such criticism for being choosy? None of us like to be judged, but it happens. We can't pick what matters to someone. We may not agree with it, we can think its unfair or unjustified, but it is part of life. Racism isn't fair but it happens no matter how much I think it sucks.

 

Our goal is to find "the one" who will love us regardless of our pasts. But people will judge us. It's not realistic to think you can do things and not have any repurcussions. We tell our kids actions have consequences. We tell them to make good choices. We say these things because we know mistakes made now could affect their future.

 

It's a tough spot to be in if you have a "past", but I think its better to be honest. Tell the truth with a soul baring explanation and hope for compassion and understanding. And if he judges or condemns you, or sees you differently- then you know hes not "the one". Before you marry and bring kids into it.

 

I think these kinds of secrets can cause big problems when discovered years down the line, and I hate to see families break up for something so easily avoidable.

[Got it]

So you are saying, you will be judged and continued to be punished for your past, but hey be forthright about it and throw yourself to slaughter!

 

I think that the amount of information and when it is disclosed varies. No one says that they don't have consequences but one may feel that something they did 5 or 10 or 15 years ago will have varying weight.

[MissBee]

What's alarming to me is the amount of people who believe the past doesn't matter and believe they should seal off important things and never mention them to a significant other.

 

To each his/her own, but that's not really the type of relationship I care to have. I've used the bestfriend example. My bestfriend knows EVERYTHING! Good, bad, ugly and I never feel like she will think of me differently. She is human and of course she doesn't just cosign like a robot. If she disagrees or it seems unlike me of course she will judge or be critical about it, but at the end of the day we're still friends and none of it overshadows that relationship and who I am to her. I need that kind of relationship with a SO.

 

One need not reveal every sordid detail but if it's something important/noteworthy, albeit not your proudest moment, I'd mention it. I also never see it as a "confession" type situation but more so in being comfortable with this person at some point certain things about the past come up. I think it is insane for people to act like we only live in the moment. No one does. We may try to, but all of us are a product of accumulated experiences and we can't approach people as though they are brand new and when they wake up in the morning it is a reset and yesterday, the day before etc. don't matter.

 

For me: I look to date who you are now but it's still based on accumulated experiences and I want to be clued in on your past. If it is no longer who you are then it won't be a huge deal, but if I cannot accept your past then we shouldn't be together as I really am against the idea of omitting, downplaying and packaging yourself to only highlight your fine moments in order to get someone to be with you. No need to air your dirty laundry on the first few dates but if for example it is a relationship leading to marriage, I personally cannot imagine marrying a man that I'd be ashamed or he would leave me if some aspect of my past came to light. No, I'd rather stand at the altar knowing that this man knows the good, bad, ugly and still chose me in spite of it and there is no "dirty secret" that can possibly pop up later and "tarnish" the image I presented.

Edited January 15, 2014 by MissBee

[Els]

The way I see it, there are two options for couples:

 

1) The past doesn't matter / I don't want to talk about it - Both parties choose to leave the past in the past, they barely talk about their own and barely ask about their partner's.

 

2) The past matters - Both parties choose to offer full disclosure of their own past and expect the same.

 

Both routes are valid choices and work fine if the people involved stick to them. Problems happen when people expect to get the best of both worlds; "we won't really talk about everything but there are some things that I think exceed boundaries and I deserve to know". Problem is, those boundaries are different for everyone, and if you don't talk about them then how is anyone to know what yours is?

[Quiet Storm]

So you are saying, you will be judged and continued to be punished for your past, but hey be forthright about it and throw yourself to slaughter!

 

I think that the amount of information and when it is disclosed varies. No one says that they don't have consequences but one may feel that something they did 5 or 10 or 15 years ago will have varying weight.

 

We will judged by some, but not by all. By being forthcoming, we have the opportunity to dismiss the judgemental ones.

 

I agree, the impact of the "secret" will vary depending on time passed, behavior in the interim and the people involved. But should we assume it won't matter, because we think it shouldnt matter?

 

I see both sides. I understand not wanting to be defined by your past, but I dont understand wanting to be with someone that would define me by my past. I also empathize with how an old lie or omission can still feel like a fresh betrayal.

 

I think "the past" is a common issue couples face. I think honesty benefits everyone. If the truth ruins things, then I think that means they aren't right for each other.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Quiet Storm

[Els]

I think honesty benefits everyone. If the truth ruins things, then I think that means they aren't right for each other.

 

Yeah, this is my personal belief as well. It just feels like a natural part in the progression of emotional intimacy, to talk about everything and anything, including things that others might consider 'TMI' or taboo. I agree that complete honesty benefits both parties, but I have also seen successful Rs work on the premise of 'don't ask don't tell'. I suppose that can work if both parties are really laid back about such things.

[Emilia]

Honestly the past sometimes just feels so irrelevant and there are things that were major at the time but I hardly ever think about. I'm definitely the kind of person who lives in the present.

 

I'm 41. I got married when I was 22 and separated when 30. Got divorced a few years later (we took our time but never got back together, I went travelling for a while, etc) but honestly I couldn't tell you in which year because it's not something I think about.

 

When I'm seeing someone I mention my ex husband quite early on but really only because I know people expect to know about these things and I wouldn't want it to come up years later 'What, you were married once?' It's a conscious decision to talk about though because honestly I never think about my past marriage. We split up almost 12 years ago, I'd have to check my divorce papers to see when it became official, not even sure where it is (I think my ex has it).

 

There are other things I suppose like past relationships but I hardly ever dwell on stuff. It's not that it doesn't matter or want to hide it, I'm happy to be the person I am today and obviously my past has created me but I look to the present and the future. I don't ask that much about guys' past and if I see that they still dwell on it, it's a flag to me that they haven't moved on or aren't perhaps capable of moving on.

 

Just my perspective.

[gaius]

Shrug, there are some things society as a whole just doesn't understand. Just imagine 75 years ago if a bisexual guy decided it was a great idea to be honest and tell his wife about his experiences with men. How would she even understand? Would that honesty help maintain a healthy marriage? Would she be correct in judging him the way they judged that back then? Of course not. As much as we like to think we've evolved in all understanding since then we're really just as ignorant when it comes to a lot of things.

 

I know there are some experiences I've had I'll take to my grave. And it's a wise thing to do.

[twosadthings]

While I think it may not always be true, there's an old saying: "Past is prologue". Everything we say and do has consequences. Not just bad but also good and certainly not always life altering.

 

If something in our past can cause significant dissruptions in the lives of those we love we should be ready to disclose it. Not to be a cause for judgement or rejection but to allow for the preparation and strength necessary to deal with it.

 

The perfect example is to be found in the Marriage and Life Partnership section where nineteen year old porn videos are causing havoc in an otherwise happy and satisfying seventeen year marriage. If a disclosure had been made years ago the very palpable agony conveyed by the thread starter could have been avoided or at least be dealt with with the minimum amount of disruption to the relationship and the son they both love and are concerned about.

 

I used a thread where a woman was not forthcoming but of course it is applicable in every relationship. If your past will cause a significant impact on the relationship in the future it should be presented for discussion and consideration.

[Quiet Storm]

Shrug, there are some things society as a whole just doesn't understand. Just imagine 75 years ago if a bisexual guy decided it was a great idea to be honest and tell his wife about his experiences with men. How would she even understand? Would that honesty help maintain a healthy marriage? Would she be correct in judging him the way they judged that back then? Of course not. As much as we like to think we've evolved in all understanding since then we're really just as ignorant when it comes to a lot of things.

 

I know there are some experiences I've had I'll take to my grave. And it's a wise thing to do.

 

It may be wise if your goal in life is to avoid judgement or consequences. But not so wise if your goal is to have an honest, intimate relationship.

 

Even though it may not matter to some people that their husband is bisexual, it might matter to his wife. Regardless of popular opinion or evolution- she is the only one he is married to. Shouldn't she be able to choose whether or not she wants a bisexual husband? Sexuality is a big part of who you are, and by hiding such big part of himself, he would miss out on the true acceptance & intimacy of marriage.

 

If your only goal is to be married, then I can see why someone would lie or omit. But my idea of marriage isn't "hide things that he might divorce me over". Marriage to me is true intimacy, vulnerability, acceptance. Its someone knowing your secrets & mistakes and STILL loving you.

 

For example, my husband is black, I'm white. Say I were to get divorced and date a white guy from the south. Intellectually, I know that interracial relationships are still judged or looked down upon by some people, even though it's wrong. My thought process would not be "Well, I better never tell him my husband was black because he's southern and I heard his friend make racist comments. I can't risk it, he might break up with me". My thought process would be, "I better tell him that my husband was black because I don't want to be with someone that will judge me or look down on me."

Edited January 15, 2014 by Quiet Storm

[Quiet Storm]

Honestly the past sometimes just feels so irrelevant and there are things that were major at the time but I hardly ever think about. I'm definitely the kind of person who lives in the present.

 

I'm 41. I got married when I was 22 and separated when 30. Got divorced a few years later (we took our time but never got back together, I went travelling for a while, etc) but honestly I couldn't tell you in which year because it's not something I think about.

 

When I'm seeing someone I mention my ex husband quite early on but really only because I know people expect to know about these things and I wouldn't want it to come up years later 'What, you were married once?' It's a conscious decision to talk about though because honestly I never think about my past marriage. We split up almost 12 years ago, I'd have to check my divorce papers to see when it became official, not even sure where it is (I think my ex has it).

 

There are other things I suppose like past relationships but I hardly ever dwell on stuff. It's not that it doesn't matter or want to hide it, I'm happy to be the person I am today and obviously my past has created me but I look to the present and the future. I don't ask that much about guys' past and if I see that they still dwell on it, it's a flag to me that they haven't moved on or aren't perhaps capable of moving on.

 

Just my perspective.

 

I agree that it is a conscious decision to talk about these things, especially prior to a marriage. If you are just dating & getting to know each other, I understand not wanting to reveal things you may be ashamed of or you think are irrelevant.

 

But marriage takes it to another level, IMO. If it is discussed and he says "The past doesn't matter to me, lets keep the past in the past", then it is a communicated agreement between the two of you. It has been decided that the past is irrelevant.

 

I just don't think it's smart to avoid discussing the past, or to assume the past doesn't matter...because it might. I think it's fairly common. I think it's better to find that out early on, before you get married and start a family. Kids end up getting hurt, when all the parents had to do was to have an honest talk & they would've concluded that they weren't compatible.

 

You have the opinion that men who dwell on the past may not be capable of moving on and this behavior causes a red flag for you. That is a valid opinion/judgement and one that can be used to weed out those that wouldn't be a good partner for you.

 

In the same light, another person may have the opinion that a person's sexual past matters, and parts of it may cause a red flag for them. That is also a valid opinion/judgement that they can use to weed out those that wouldn't be a good partner for them.

 

Everyone has their own criteria for what they want it a partner. All of us look for red flags that may give clues into a person's character or their ability to have a healthy relationship. But what matters to each person depends on the individual. However, a relationship is made up of two people, and it's important for those people to be compatible if the goal is to have a healthy, honest relationship.

[Quiet Storm]

I've thought about this and concluded that my opinions on this topic are likely swayed by the fact that I married very young.

 

As high school sweethearts, I really did tell my husband everything. He knew everything about me & my family, from my dad's drug addiction, to my mom's codependent behavior, to my sister's eating disorder. I shared my deepest thoughts and feelings. He was from a much more functional & financially secure family than I was. His parents had the perfect marriage, IMO. He was one of five kids in a happy family. I was embarrassed at times about things, but I never thought to hide them from him. He also shared everything with me. He found his brothers gay magazines and kept the secret from his family until his brother was ready to come out, but he told me. He struggled with keeping that secret from his parents (his dad was a military man) and talking about it with me made him feel better. We trusted and confided in each other, and were so accepting.

 

So... I think that I use my own marriage, and the fact that we are totally open and know everything about each other, as the standard for intimacy. I could be wrong about that. It seems foreign to me, but maybe it's possible to have a healthy, fulfilling & honest relationship without full disclosure?

 

I think we are more accepting in our youth. We haven't beed jaded by wisdom or experience. Maybe I am too idealistic about "true intimacy" and what is needed to achieve that.

[Grumpybutfun]

QS:

Full transparency in a relationship is the healthiest, most lucrative way to keep it healthy and happy. Trust is broken when events or behaviors of the past is brought up, and they almost always find their way to the light.

I didn't comment on the porn star wife thread because it sounded like something a troll who writes several of our threads and has been caught would write. I am learning his writing style and do not bother with his threads.

However, I agree that the past needs to be discussed because until you know someone's past, you cannot know them. It is the same as if a therapist really needs to help you but cannot because they do not know the facts of your past. In marriage, there are going to be a myriad of issues. They can be worked through as long as the partners are open and honest. My issue wouldn't be the events so much as the duplicity by not sharing it with me. If I think someone I was with was one person and they end up being another because they were a stripper, porn star, abortionist, terrorist, cult member, etc. I deserve to know these things before entering into a union with them. Otherwise, without full disclosure, the contract is null and void and I could leave based on false advertising. If I buy a shirt without knowing where that shirt was made and I find out later it was made in a sweatshop by children under deplorable conditions, I would feel duped and I would have contributed to child slavery. Details are very important and knowledge is a must in making a decision.

Transparency is a must in a relationship. Redemption is only redemption if the person is honest and open from the beginning and pursues that redemption themselves, not if the secret is revealed by another. You don't get redemption if you weren't even the one disclosing the truth in the first place.

The past does indeed stay in the past once the two parties disclose and forgive and move on. But, if the past is never disclosed, the past still hangs between them like a stench that will permeate every other part of their marriage whether it be through fear, further lies, loss of reputation, lack of morals and values, deceitful practices, etc.

The past matters and a good marriage doesn't have secrets,

Grumps

Edited January 15, 2014 by Grumpybutfun

[jba10582]

The past is a very powerful teacher, motivator, and even a blessing through the mistakes and errors and the lessons and learnings you find, can release past mistakes and create better ways of living and incorporate them into the now. There is lot of wisdom here about honesty and trust building in a relationship and even acknowledging the judgmental nature people have. Love has roots in compassion, trust, honesty and forgiveness, not in labels, judgments, or lack of empathy.

Edited January 15, 2014 by jba10582

[gaius]

It may be wise if your goal in life is to avoid judgement or consequences. But not so wise if your goal is to have an honest, intimate relationship.

 

Even though it may not matter to some people that their husband is bisexual, it might matter to his wife. Regardless of popular opinion or evolution- she is the only one he is married to. Shouldn't she be able to choose whether or not she wants a bisexual husband? Sexuality is a big part of who you are, and by hiding such big part of himself, he would miss out on the true acceptance & intimacy of marriage.

Today it's different. There are legitimate issues for some women when it comes to being with a bisexual man but people aren't indoctrinated to all think that kind of thing means the guy is a mentally ill degenerate like they used to. Besides I think most people have a good instinctual sense of who others are without fully realizing it. Or discussing it. I know my last girlfriend started acting uncannily like my mother when we were close to breaking up. I could never tell why I was so attracted to her before but that spelled it out for me.

If your only goal is to be married, the I can see why someone would lie or omit. But my idea of marriage isn't "hide things that he might divorce me over". Marriage to me is true intimacy, vulnerability, acceptance. Its someone knowing your secrets & mistakes and STILL loving you.

 

For example, my husband is black, I'm white. Say I were to get divorced and date a white guy from the south. Intellectually, I know that interracial relationships are still judged or looked down upon by some people, even though it's wrong. My thought process would not be "Well, I better never tell him my husband was black because he's southern and I heard his friend make racist comments. I can't risk it, he might break up with me". My thought process would be, "I better tell him that my husband was black because I don't want to be with someone that will judge me or look down on me."

There are guys who might hold that against you but it's ignorance that's not nearly as widespread or ingrained as other forms. At least not anymore. I get what you're saying quiet and I will admit I did tell one girl what it was and it did make me feel good and closer with her, but I also don't think I liked that she had that new image of me. It was emasculating as well on some level. I don't think I would do it again in the future.

[Emilia]

I just don't think it's smart to avoid discussing the past, or to assume the past doesn't matter...because it might. I think it's fairly common. I think it's better to find that out early on, before you get married and start a family. Kids end up getting hurt, when all the parents had to do was to have an honest talk & they would've concluded that they weren't compatible.

 

You have the opinion that men who dwell on the past may not be capable of moving on and this behavior causes a red flag for you. That is a valid opinion/judgement and one that can be used to weed out those that wouldn't be a good partner for you.

 

In the same light, another person may have the opinion that a person's sexual past matters, and parts of it may cause a red flag for them. That is also a valid opinion/judgement that they can use to weed out those that wouldn't be a good partner for them.

I'm not saying the past doesn't matter. I talk about the family I grew up in for example and I discuss some of the family issues I had as a kid because I think it's fundamental to who I am today. How you spend your formative years will unfortunately/or fortunately have a huge impact on you later.

 

However, I find that a lot of people seek to redress their insecurities by wanting to know everything about the other person. Sexual past is a very good example of this. I think that the person's insecurities and views are their own, I am not here to prop it up by putting all my past actions under the microscope for his own judgement. I try very hard not to do this to him either. This doesn't mean not discussing relationship history, it just means being your own person, being allowed to be your own person and not obliging your partner's thinly veiled insecure attempts at interrogating you.

 

I think there is a balance. I also think that at the age of 41 I am very different from who I was at 25 and especially 18. It's not that I'm worried I would pay for past mistakes, it's that what matters is who I am today. Get to know me, don't lazily rely on some past information trying to predict or control the outcome.