Guys paying on the first date ...

[lino]

Well certain things do cost money. 50 bucks isnt a big deal for me if its a girl I see good potential with.

 

For example, lets say I meet a girl, we start chatting a lot...like daily. By the time we get to go on our first date theres a great amount of chemistry and rapport. Lets say shes passionate about one of my passions (soccer or music for example).

 

We could easily spend a tiny part of the afternoon kicking around a soccer ball and talking, and then in the evening going to a local show to see a particular band or artist. If you factor in afternoon snacks, a quick bite to eat in the evening, and drinks at the venue, things will easily be over 50 bucks, and I wouldn't mind at all. (nvm transportation costs).

 

Point is, I will spend money on people I have good rapport with. Some women understand this and others don't. I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't know me well to spend money on me. However, I would expect kind gestures from a woman Ive built a good rapport with and who I am being kind to as well.

 

OP is cheap herself. Not wanting to pay after offering to do so? Cheap, cheap, cheap.

 

 

Excellently said.

[ChessPieceFace]

I'd likely still be a virgin if I had issues with paying for first dates.

 

So you literally were paying for sex then. At least you admit it.

[dontgo]

So you literally were paying for sex then. At least you admit it.

 

Women do it to themselves, by thinking romance is a man buying them a meal/evening out and that the man's company alone is not romantic.

[bubbaganoosh]

I'm a guy. If I ask a women out on a date, it's because I want her to be with me that night. That said, if we go to dinner or a movie, I pay for it. She was asked to accompany me and therefore I'm paying. Period.

[Els]

of course i'm in the minority, and i have never figured out the 'art' of getting a guy to pay. .

 

There really is not an 'art' for that...

[the_entertainer1]

So, OP... I get it you want to leave the appearance of sharing and being equitable... but don't want to follow through? What's up with that?

 

I'm all for equality, and I did follow through. Going dutch on the first date is not a deal-breaker. I just think it's a nice gesture for the guy to pay for at least part of the first date. Like, a coffee or something. It's happened on all the other dates I've been on, so I suppose I've become accustomed to it. And really, I think that society (the media, pop culture, etc.) conditions women to expect it too. That's why I was surprised when he accepted my money for my meal.

 

I wouldn't have cared if we'd gone to do something for free. If he'd paid for dinner for us, I'd've happily paid for dessert for both of us. With other guys I've dated, after the second date I'm happy to go dutch or take turns or even pay for the guy. I know it's nice to be treated and I enjoy giving in return.

 

How is it 'traditional' exactly when a man pays? 'Traditional' has so many other layers than just who pays. I know it is sort of a knee jerk thing to assume if a guy pays, then he is more traditional, but I don't see that at all.

 

 

 

Just because he pays for your date doesn't mean he will care for you that way... or be there for you when you really need him in a million other ways.

 

This is a really good point. I'd prefer him to be there for me if/when I need it, rather than pay. I agree that that shows a guy's character much more than if he pays or not. I'm also attracted to good manners though. Holding the door open, etc. (I do that for everyone though, anyway!)

 

 

 

Given your obvious dissonance on this topic, I'd strongly urge you to get clear on what you really want and are looking for... and express THAT...

 

Do you mean express that to myself, to people on here, or to the guy?!

[MissBee]

There really is not an 'art' for that...

 

Right. It's really not anything I've had to inveigle a man into doing.

[the_entertainer1]

I'm a guy. If I ask a women out on a date, it's because I want her to be with me that night. That said, if we go to dinner or a movie, I pay for it. She was asked to accompany me and therefore I'm paying. Period.

 

 

When you say you want her to "be with" you - do you mean you want her to spend time with you on a date or that you are wanting to have sex with her later that night? (Though I guess these aren't mutually exclusive!)

[gaius]

Just cough up for the first date already guys. More often than not it turns the girl on and if she's turned on she wants to turn you on. I'm sure even Red would be turned on seeing the guy turn out to be more stubborn than her. As long as his breath didn't reek of predisposition to one disease or another.

 

What do you really have to spend your money on that's better anyway? Ringtones?

[readynow]

I think this is a matter of preference - as well as all other things. For some women, a man not paying means he doesn't care, for others, it means she is an equal. Just like for some, being spanked means he's really into it while to others, being spanked is abuse!

 

For me personally, from the first date I had since I was 13, through to my marriage, divorce, and after, up till now, I have never once paid for a date or even offered to pay and I have dated a lot. I have never once had a man even expect me to pay - with the exception of one man. He paid for the first date (I just had a small coke anyway while he scuffed down our entire sharing platter) and during a conversation a few days later, he revealed he was struggling financially and would always appreciate it if a woman offered to split the bill. I proceeded to invite him to the cinema out of pity - I pre-booked the tickets because I would die of embarrassment if I had to bring out my wallet in front of man. We had a nice time but for some reason, I could never carry on seeing him again - he still doesn't know why.

 

It's nothing to do with a free meal, free ticket, feminism or the absence of it. I don't eat much and can only drink one glass of anything anyway! For me, I've always seen it as a man thing to pay and I am not bothered if the date is at The Savoy or McDonalds, the man that is taking ME out should pay. I work full time and can look after myself well, I'm not extravagant and don't remember ever being broke in the last 15 years. I always take cash and a card with me anytime I go out - you never know what would go down! but it's not so that I can 'offer' to pay.

 

Like I said, we're all different and see things differently. There's nothing forcing you to date someone who pays or refuses to - if it doesn't work for you, move on.

[RedRobin]

OP, neither of you did anything inherently wrong. You're simply two strangers trying to figure each other out. The clearer the messages you send the better.

 

If I like a guy, I don't offer to split the bill, pay, etc. I don't reach for the bill or my purse. I prefer that the guy pay for our first few dates (and all the signals I send are consistent with that preference). Now, if I am not interested in the guy, I'll pay my half, regardless of how heavily he protests. I don't want to leave any impression that there will be a repeat.

 

I don't believe it's an age thing since I date over a very wide age range. Only once did a guy ever suggest we split the bill, and he was in his forties and the oldest person I had ever dated.

 

 

That's so backwards. So basically, if you like a guy, he pays more?

 

 

Sounds not much different than women who will make a guy they like wait for sex, but have sex quick with guys they don't like all that much but are just hot for.

 

 

Both behaviors only create confusion and resentment among those who are simply just trying to meet someone who they are compatible with and share their values, for chrissakes!!!

 

 

Oh, and about leaving the impression there won't be a repeat?? How about SAYING "Thank you for a nice evening, but I don't think we are a match?"

 

 

Why resort to this kind of thing? It is SOO much easier and straightforward to just say what you want and expect rather than play these little games that can so easily be misinterpreted.

 

 

How about being consistent?? Men and women? Why would how much you like or not like someone change whether you offer to pay when you are getting to know each other?

[Els]

That's so backwards. So basically, if you like a guy, he pays more?

 

It does sound strange, but depending on culture, the signals a woman sends by insisting on paying can vary. Where I come from, it's common perception that if a girl insists on dutch despite the guy wanting to pay for her, she is enforcing a platonic friendship. I've done that with guys who wanted to pay for me but whom I only wanted to be friends with. It's an effective deterrent.

 

This is all assuming the guy actually wants to pay, of course. Guys who do not, should not.

[RedRobin]

I'm all for equality, and I did follow through. Going dutch on the first date is not a deal-breaker. I just think it's a nice gesture for the guy to pay for at least part of the first date. Like, a coffee or something. It's happened on all the other dates I've been on, so I suppose I've become accustomed to it. And really, I think that society (the media, pop culture, etc.) conditions women to expect it too. That's why I was surprised when he accepted my money for my meal.

 

I wouldn't have cared if we'd gone to do something for free. If he'd paid for dinner for us, I'd've happily paid for dessert for both of us. With other guys I've dated, after the second date I'm happy to go dutch or take turns or even pay for the guy. I know it's nice to be treated and I enjoy giving in return.

 

 

Ok... if you are accustomed to men behaving one way in the past, and this one acted a differently, then it is natural to wonder what the deal is.

 

 

I hope this thread and the many, many other threads devoted to 'who pays' sheds some light on it. I'm a woman who has dated a lot too... My experiences with 'who pays' has indicated zero correlation with their real interest in me or a relationship at all. None.

 

This is a really good point. I'd prefer him to be there for me if/when I need it, rather than pay. I agree that that shows a guy's character much more than if he pays or not. I'm also attracted to good manners though. Holding the door open, etc. (I do that for everyone though, anyway!)

 

 

Yes, there is basic civility and decent conduct we expect from everyone as a baseline. I've had guys pay, hold doors, etc who turned out to be real jerks. It's not hard to fake 'manners' for awhile. What *I* look for is consistency. Much harder to fake.

 

Do you mean express that to myself, to people on here, or to the guy?!

 

 

Express it to the men you date. Don't be afraid to speak up and express what you are looking for and what you expect. In a nice way, of course.

[RedRobin]

It does sound strange, but depending on culture, the signals a woman sends by insisting on paying can vary. Where I come from, it's common perception that if a girl insists on dutch despite the guy wanting to pay for her, she is enforcing a platonic friendship. I've done that with guys who wanted to pay for me but whom I only wanted to be friends with. It's an effective deterrent.

 

This is all assuming the guy actually wants to pay, of course. Guys who do not, should not.

 

 

 

I don't insist on dutch. I offer to pay my half, he either accepts or refuses. I sometimes offer again and say "you sure?" He says "I'm sure", then he pays.

 

 

My grandma taught me that you offer twice, and if they still refuse, then you accept gracefully. I would never get into an argument over a bill or enforce anything to prove a point. I'd just tell him I was interested in being friends and leave it at that.

[Els]

I don't insist on dutch. I offer to pay my half, he either accepts or refuses. I sometimes offer again and say "you sure?" He says "I'm sure", then he pays.

 

My grandma taught me that you offer twice, and if they still refuse, then you accept gracefully.

 

Ah, yes, I agree with that.

 

I would never get into an argument over a bill or enforce anything to prove a point. I'd just tell him I was interested in being friends and leave it at that.

 

This is probably best. All I'm saying is, in some cultures, a woman who really wants to go dutch is perceived as not being interested, due to that. So it isn't about 'making a man you're interested in pay more', it's about social signals.

[berrieh]

Never mind 10 characters.

Edited January 15, 2014 by berrieh

[bubbaganoosh]

When you say you want her to "be with" you - do you mean you want her to spend time with you on a date or that you are wanting to have sex with her later that night? (Though I guess these aren't mutually exclusive!)

 

I guess it was a wrong choice of words. If I ask a woman out it's because I like her and want to share company with her.

 

I'm one of those old school people being 66 years old that 99.9% of the time sex never happened on the first date. Hell, in my time, I would have been grateful for a kiss.

[soccerrprp]

This is probably best. All I'm saying is, in some cultures, a woman who really wants to go dutch is perceived as not being interested, due to that. So it isn't about 'making a man you're interested in pay more', it's about social signals.

 

Not only some cultures, but general perception/thinking regarding dating from individual to individual. I made this point earlier in this thread.

 

I stand by my thought that the paying issue is not inherently about being fair. It's about things much more important. It's about social cues, personal expectations and relational attitudes.

 

I have been following LS long enough (unfortunately in some ways lol!) to know that guys think you're whipped if you delineate from the traditional male-role norms, yet are some of the same people who get pissy about paying for dates. You know, "be a man and do this...." or "man, you sound like a *****, man up..." but later, or in other aspects of a relationship insist that women should pay or help pay or not expect that the meal will be paid....etc.

 

Confusing to hear. But, I must admit that I have no reason to disassociate myself from the traditional social expectation as a male to pay for meals. I have had success in dating and relationships with women. Perhaps, many men who are adamant about not having to pay are not so fortunate?

[Iguanna]

She was asked to accompany me and therefore I'm paying. Period.

 

Why??? Is there a better and logical explanation than "that's that, period"?

 

I never thought of money as an issue. I never thought a man can buy my company or sex from me. I haven't had many first dates in my life cause I had a few long lasting relationships, but with my current fiance I never let him pay, as I have said before we had a third wallet and we paid everything from there, putting in equal amount of money. I hate the issue of money so I helped make it vanish.

 

OP, if you didn't want to pay on the first date, you shouldn't have offered to pay, it's simple. You can't put a trap on someone and then get mad when they don't act like you want them to act. Be honest and express your opinion, this is the fair thing to do.

[Iguanna]

There really is not an 'art' for that...

 

Of course there is! I know a girl who, every time she was going out for the evening (planning to meet her friends in the village she was going) she put 5 euros in her bra (!!!!) cause she was expecting to be treated drinks and food from guys she knew - she didn't have a bf. The 5 euros was for the exceptional situation that she couldn't find a transport back to her house and she had to take a taxi or something.

 

There are women who act like this, like they are expecting they have to be treated. It goes like this:

W: So are we going now?

M: Yes if you want to.

W: Ok, I'll go to the bathroom first and I'll wait for you in the car - outside (whatever).

 

[Iguanna]

I would die of embarrassment if I had to bring out my wallet in front of man. .

 

Ooh, it reminds me of old movies haha.

 

"Take your wallet away, I'm paying, I'm THE MAN!!!!".

 

[clia]

I don't know...I took a look at your previous thread and he asked you out for dinner and drinks, so in my opinion he should have paid. He should've at least paid for your coffee after dinner. (Did you hand him $3? How embarrassing.) Did he pick the restaurant? He should've just planned for a cheaper date if he couldn't afford it. You don't have to do anything expensive on a first date, but dinner and drinks will nearly always run at least $50, so guys should just suggest something else if they don't want to make that kind of investment. (Two burgers at $10 each, a couple of beers each...yeah $50. And that's a low estimate.).

 

That said, if you don't want to chip in, don't offer in the future. I don't get it at all when women offer to pay their half and then get bothered when the guy actually takes them up on it -- especially a younger guy. From the posts around here, it seems like many of the younger guys do expect dates to be dutch from the beginning. (Blech...I feel sorry for you young gals. I much prefer the more formal, traditional way of dating where the guy asks you out in person or in a phone call (not via a stupid text), comes to your house to pick you up, plans a date, takes you out, pays, etc., and doesn't complain about any of it. It's so much more romantic than this casual, hang out type of thing that seems to be all the rage.)

 

He's 22, so I might be willing to cut him some slack just out of plain ignorance, but now you've set a bad precedent. I do think it sometimes puts the guy in a bad position when a woman offers to pay her share, because then he starts to wonder if she really likes him or not, or if she will be offended if he doesn't let her pay her share. The easier way is to just let him pay unless he asks for you to chip in. Or pick up a cab fare, after dinner drink, dessert, whatever later on that evening.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I'm all for equality, and I did follow through. Going dutch on the first date is not a deal-breaker. I just think it's a nice gesture for the guy to pay for at least part of the first date. Like, a coffee or something. It's happened on all the other dates I've been on, so I suppose I've become accustomed to it. And really, I think that society (the media, pop culture, etc.) conditions women to expect it too. That's why I was surprised when he accepted my money for my meal.

 

I think women who expect men to pay for first dates are equivalent to men who expect sex on first dates.

[O'Malley]

Did he pick the restaurant? He should've just planned for a cheaper date if he couldn't afford it.

 

That's what I was curious about as well. Did he ask the OP where she would like to go, for either the dinner or dessert (although it sounds like the OP offered to pay a portion, not that he expected it outright). Someone asking for your input on an initial outing gives you as much insight into their style as who pays for what on that first date.

 

I have no issue with going dutch, but if someone goes into dating situations with the dutch mindset, they should also be asking for input about the outing or restaurant that both would enjoy going on (as well as both of them being able to afford it). What they should never do is pick the outing or restaurant by themselves and then have the expectation that their date pays their own way. The other side of it is that it shouldn't be a big issue to offer to chip in for dessert, drinks, or other incidentals of the date in this day and age, especially if you're doing as well financially as your date.

 

If you're not comfortable with this guy's dating style, find someone who treats when they've ask you out on an initial date, then you can pay the tip, drinks or transportation. Apply the going dutch and treating for subsequent dates.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Oh yeah I can totally see that.

My vagina is worth right around the price of an Outback Steakhouse bloomin' onion.

 

Are we really about to talk hooker prices?

 

My take on it it like this. If I have to pay a woman to show up... Then she really isn't that interested. I always pay on dates for traditional women. However, that also means I have much higher expectations for their maturity and character.