no one ever tells you...

January 16, 2014

Tired Girl, I know what you are saying and I agree with you regarding how she was being treated, or thought she was being treated versus how he thinks he was treating her, or how he things she was treating him. But that is the issue of the marriage, that is why I say "same marriage". That may in fact be what needs fixing, in the marriage.

January 17, 2014

It is not all your fault. A marriage involves 2 people. And you are right, when an affair comes out, the WS instantly is blamed for everything, her husband may have been the digest POS on the face of the planet, but ITS ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!!

Never mind what went wrong in your marriage to lead you to step out, that cant or wont be discussed as you have to do penance. So it gives the BS spouse a free train ride, there is no "us" there is only you that Fd up, and are responsible to fix it. You cannot fix it on your own. Radical honesty is called for, which means expressing to your husband why you steped out, putting the blame? on him for what he did pr did not do.

Actually I hate the blame thing, if he loves and cares for you, he will try and look past his hurt, so both of you can come to a deeper understanding and love in your marriage. It is not only up to you to rebuld your marraige, it is also up to him.
Hugs...you only did what you thought was best at the time, as painful as it is now.

Wow. So, my wife and I have had a lot of issues and struggles in our marriage since her betrayal. I thought it would be a good idea to work through these issues, but this solution doesn't seem to be on you list.

But you're suggesting that I should betray her instead and just tell her afterwards that it wasn't my fault? If it helps, even just a little, I might try that.

January 17, 2014

Actually what You are talking about was exactly on my list. That both parties need to work together on it. Not quite sure how you missed that from my post.

And your last sentance is exactly what I was trying to say not to do.. That both parties need to listen to each other as openly as possible ( as much as the hurt will allow) so that true healing and intimacy in the marriage can take place.

Really not sure how you've interpreted what I've said to fit your comments.

Wow. So, my wife and I have had a lot of issues and struggles in our marriage since her betrayal. I thought it would be a good idea to work through these issues, but this solution doesn't seem to be on you list.

But you're suggesting that I should betray her instead and just tell her afterwards that it wasn't my fault? If it helps, even just a little, I might try that.

January 17, 2014

Sometimes the blind open their eyes.. And to me, real love is about trying to understand the person you love, accept that person, realise their limitations, and not judge them.

Which is probably why half the people having affairs are the ones relating like this.

But I doubt that concept will be understood here.

Proof that anyone can find consolation for anything if they're patient. Proof that some wholeheartedly believe love must be acceptance (and nothing else) or it's not love. Where's the women's sexuality expert when you need him? Surely evolution will take us past silly notions like honesty and integrity. Right? Meanwhile, the blind lead the blind.

January 17, 2014

Actually I hate the blame thing, if he loves and cares for you, he will try and look past his hurt, so both of you can come to a deeper understanding and love in your marriage. It is not only up to you to rebuld your marraige, it is also up to him.
Hugs...you only did what you thought was best at the time, as painful as it is now.

Even the OP says having an affair isn't what she thought was best at the time. Yes, now comes the pain.

Look, if you are in a relationship with the understanding and commitment of monogamy between the partners and you're strolling down the street and you turn to your partner and pulling out a 12 inch incredibly sharp butcher knife and burry it into their back, you can't expect that the two of you will focus on your relationship before your partner's wounds are dressed, nor before their body is stabilized. Even then the two of you are going to have address the issue that you knifed them.

Following all of that, and the healing from you stabbing them you can address the common issues in the marriage. Attempting healing in any other order will blow up on you.

January 17, 2014

Sometimes the blind open their eyes.

Sometimes. And sometimes the blind continue to think that the tail of the elephant is what the whole elephant is like.

Considering it is human nature to react to betrayal by defending one's self, It takes a very magnanimous person to respond to being betrayed in a loving manner, especially initially. It's a gift to the betrayer if it happens, it shouldn't be the first thing assumed. If it happens the betrayer should be grateful.

January 17, 2014

Sometimes. And sometimes the blind continue to think that the tail of the elephant is what the whole elephant is like.

Considering it is human nature to react to betrayal by defending one's self, It takes a very magnanimous person to respond to being betrayed in a loving manner, especially initially. It's a gift to the betrayer if it happens, it shouldn't be the first thing assumed. If it happens the betrayer should be grateful.

It is indeed a gift. The gift of reconciliation and forgiveness.

The efforts this amount of mutual understanding, sensitivity and hard work are not to be sniffed at.

January 17, 2014

Which is probably why half the people having affairs are the ones relating like this.
But I doubt that concept will be understood here.

It isn't an issue of judging your partner who has betrayed you. It is an issue of the white-hot searing pain the betrayed person feels. Many times, even while experiencing tht pain, the betrayed is still loving their betrayer, attempting to forgive and reconcile.

Maybe that's a concept that some betrayers don't understand. Maybe were that better understood, by the betrayer, couples could get back to the issues of their marriages.

January 17, 2014

YOU are not a POS, what you did was.

This sounds nice in theory, but I would bet every FWS on LS would agree that based on the posting style of quite a few people....it's very hard for us to see the distinction at times.

January 17, 2014

however I do not feel as if I am 100% to blame?

Of course you don't. Then you wouldn't have to accept that you chose a selfish path.

Are you blaming your spouse for you choosing to cheat?

January 17, 2014

To forestall the inevitable threadjack, moderation weighs in here with the following:

"Personal attacks against other participants will not be tolerated under any circumstances. We define personal attacks as posted comments which are intended to provoke, demean, or ridicule another participant. It is inevitable that members will sometimes disagree in their responses to any given problem, and LoveShack.org encourages healthy debate comprised of constructive questions and criticisms, so long as they pertain to the post and thread at hand. Personal dislike of another member has no place in any post, on any thread."

LoveShack.org: Community Guidelines

That's part of the Community Guidelines every member agrees to when joining our forums. Moderation does not discriminate between attacking a persons behavior and attacking the person themselves as they are part and parcel of one individual, hence members will exhibit civility and respect for fellow members, even if they disagree on behaviors and/or postings, or they will be sanctioned appropriately or banned from our forums.

In real life, you can do what you want. On LoveShack, you post by our rules. That's it. OK, back to the discussion.

January 17, 2014

I have recently discovered that as the one who cheated, no one ever tells you that when you are the weaker of the two, when you actually break down and cheat, you essentially absolve your partner of any and all culpability of the missteps and prior breakdowns in the relationship.

Everything essentially becomes YOUR fault, regardless of anything they may have done, or how emotionally unavailable they may have been prior to you succumbing to the temptation of the "other".

By no means and I using this to justify my actions, however the truth is always somewhere in the middle, and I did not "step out" for no reason.

I recognize I should have done things differently, however I do not feel as if I am 100% to blame?

Please forgive me, ms_E, if this question has already been answered. Could you be a little more specific on how you feel your hubby was failing you in the marriage? Many WS on this site have strayed because they felt their husbands ignored them, showed them little or no affection, thought of them only as sex "toys", had affairs of their own either EA or PA, were cold and distant, controlling to an unacceptable degree, demeaning, you name it. It would be instructive to us if you would share some of the frustrations you suffered in your relationship with your own husband that led you to stray. It was, of course, your choice to cheat, but why did you?

January 17, 2014

The marital issues ARE always responsible for an affair, (unless the WS is a total sociopath, a term bandied loosely here, but very rarely the truth) and until married people recognize this, no true healing, or indeed deeper intimacy in their marriage can occur. this may not be popular for me to say here, but it is the commonsense truth, and actually gives the BS much more scope to heal and repair there marriage, or move on once they recognize it

It simply isn't true that this is common sense truth.

This theory isn't enlightened, but the same old archaic attitude of ignoring bad behavior in the hopes the consequences will go away.

What you are describing is sweeping the affair under the rug. If this happens it continues to be the elephant in the room whether the person that had the affair realizes it or not.

Sweeping the affair under the rug, blaming the affair on deficits within the marriage is ignoring the brutal fact that the wayward spouse chose to betray their partner.

The marital issues are always responsible for the affair to happen, and continue. To think otherwise is to ignore the growth that an affair can bring to the marriage.

This is just flawed thinking all the way around and ignores the fact that only the person that commits the act of betrayal, by having an affiar, is reponsible for that choice.

Affairs are to marriage what murder is to life. Affairs kill a marriage, dead.

It is counter intuitive and absurd to think that an affair can bring growth to a marriage. The marriage would have grown more had the affiar not happened. The potential for growth was far greater before the affair was commited than it will ever be following the affair. The marriage might grow because the affair partner gets caught and is then scared straight, but that is growth within the affair partner specifically.

Ms, I'm sorry that you don't think that your marriage is moving past your affair. It sounds like you wish that it would. There's plenty of reading about how long it takes a betrayed spouse to heal from such betrayal. It usually takes from 2, to 5, years for that healing. I don't know where you are in the process, but the 1st year is going to be the rollercoaster from hell. It isn't realistic to think this is going to be a quick process.

It depends where you and your H are in the process, but attempting to discuss issues in the marriage without exhausting how he feels about the affair and without you disclosing to him what it is within you that permitted you to have the affair he will feel like you're trying to sweep it under the rug and any healing will stall right there.

January 17, 2014

There is more to most wedding vows than fidelity. Sometimes other parts of the vow are broken.

Are these parts not as important? I guess it depends on your perspective.

January 17, 2014

Please forgive me, ms_E, if this question has already been answered. Could you be a little more specific on how you feel your hubby was failing you in the marriage? Many WS on this site have strayed because they felt their husbands ignored them, showed them little or no affection, thought of them only as sex "toys", had affairs of their own either EA or PA, were cold and distant, controlling to an unacceptable degree, demeaning, you name it. It would be instructive to us if you would share some of the frustrations you suffered in your relationship with your own husband that led you to stray. It was, of course, your choice to cheat, but why did you?

I have read and received a lot of helpful advice here as well as some redirects to valuable information here and for that I am appreciative, however I am not at all interested in opening myself up to any further vitriol or attack by the Betrayed's here on the site.

I expressed the reason for my OP in subsequent posts. I was having my own bad day, YES based on the consequence of MY OWN actions. I posted and was subsequently raked over the coals. I do not wish a repeat. I have gleaned quite a bit of personal insight based on other threads by people with similar situations as my own, which is quite helpful. But for now I am going to be a silent observer and should the need arise in the future I will post my questions or issues judiciously.

January 17, 2014

I have read and received a lot of helpful advice here as well as some redirects to valuable information here and for that I am appreciative, however I am not at all interested in opening myself up to any further vitriol or attack by the Betrayed's here on the site.

I expressed the reason for my OP in subsequent posts. I was having my own bad day, YES based on the consequence of MY OWN actions. I posted and was subsequently raked over the coals. I do not wish a repeat. I have gleaned quite a bit of personal insight based on other threads by people with similar situations as my own, which is quite helpful. But for now I am going to be a silent observer and should the need arise in the future I will post my questions or issues judiciously.

Don't let them get to you. What you posted was a totally legitimate point, whether others see it or not. Been there, done that. Everyone is posting with their own particular bias.

January 17, 2014

There is no excuse for cheating, should be followed with, but never is, "There is an excuse for the husband who mistreats the woman who has chosen to give him her body and soul"

I am that, which you call a POS male who gets his jollys from banging married women. The truth of the matter is married women are easy, many of them are starving for attention they should be receiving from their husbands. They try and try to tell and warn their husband's that they are not happy, and need to make changes in their marriage, that fall on deaf ears. Until some body like myself comes along and takes advantage of a situation that they the husband has helped create.

If they were single, they could easily dump the husband, but being married they now have to suffer through a divorce.

You say Divorce is an answer. It is long and costly and not necessarily what they want. As what they really want is their husband to change and start paying them the attention they deserve for being his wife.

In many cases it is the husbands inaction, that makes it easy for some one like me to come in and fill the void that their husbands have left. Fill that void and I never get to first base

And less you forget, I am not the only one out their hunting married women.

January 17, 2014

I have recently discovered that as the one who cheated, no one ever tells you that when you are the weaker of the two, when you actually break down and cheat, you essentially absolve your partner of any and all culpability of the missteps and prior breakdowns in the relationship.

Everything essentially becomes YOUR fault, regardless of anything they may have done, or how emotionally unavailable they may have been prior to you succumbing to the temptation of the "other".

By no means and I using this to justify my actions, however the truth is always somewhere in the middle, and I did not "step out" for no reason.

I recognize I should have done things differently, however I do not feel as if I am 100% to blame?

yeah, I admit, I banged the other dude. No question. It just totally sucks, that now even tho he will admit the situation and relationship had major problems all around, the fact that I was the weaker of the two of us, somehow absolves him of all his wrongdoings and misdeeds that he would never admit to or acknowledge prior to my misdeeds.

Is just frustrating that years and years of my begging for change and counseling etc fell on deaf ears, and yet now that I cheated, every thing is MY fault.

This is another story from a separate perspective:

I have recently discovered that as the man who punches his wife, no one ever tells you that you are weaker of the two, until you become annoyed by your by woman so much that you snap, and you essentially absolve your partner of any and all culpability.

Everything essentially becomes YOUR fault, regardless of anything she may have done, or how much she deserved to be struck by my fists for behaving the way that she has prior to succumbing to the temptation of removing her teeth.

By no means and I using this to justify my actions, however the truth is always somewhere in the middle, and men do not strike women for no reason.

Yeah, I admit, I totally went to prison after being caught wailing on her. No question. It just totally sucks, that now even though she will admit the situation and relationship had major problems all around, the fact that I was the weaker of the two of us, somehow absolves her of all wrongdoings and misdeeds that she would never admit to or acknowledge.

It's just frustrating that after years of begging for change and counseling to fall on deaf ears, and yet now that I've been caught punching her, every thing is MY fault!

Thanks, but my premise has never been "it was ok for me to cheat" As I have said, I own my actions, not looking for absolution, or exoneration. Did not intend to try and deflect any of my responsibility for any of my choices or my actions.

I really was just looking for someone to say, yes you f'ed up, you hurt your spouse, you made bad choices, but at some point, hopefully given enough time, talking, crying, screaming, soul searching, rebuilding, etc, etc. There might possibly be a light at the end of the tunnel. just looking for a bit of moral support in my own moments of hurt and weakness, that YES I KNOW, I brought on myself, its my fault, it will always be ALL my fault and I can never every expect it to ever be anything less than ALL my fault. I was just hoping someone could say something supportive and even though it is ALL my fault, that maybe one day there might be hope that with enough work it won't feel so f'ed up.

Excuse me, but with all due respect, when have you ever owned your actions? Tell me about it. How exactly did this happen? Did you feel better or worse? The only thing I see is a woman who blames her husband her cheating on him. I understand why people choose to blame others for their own actions, oh boy do I understand. But even though I've been there, and know exactly where your coming from, I have yet to see you own your actions.

This isn't some judgment or an attack on your personal character. This is merely an honest observation. You've had an affair, you've blamed your husband for the affair, and then attempted persuade a public audience that you've somehow took responsibility for your own actions. My question for you is why is there such an importance placed on blame? You can grieve, forgive yourself, and move forward with your life. And you do not need a cop-out excuse or a shift in blame in order to achieve exactly that.

January 17, 2014

Are these parts not as important? I guess it depends on your perspective.

I think there is reasonably common agreement on the varied importance of the many components in the vow. And, yes, perspective always factors in.

January 17, 2014

for now I am going to be a silent observer and should the need arise in the future I will post my questions or issues judiciously.

Are you saying your H was just as responsible as you for your decision to cheat?

If you're saying he was just as responsible for allowing a crappy marriage, I'm right there with ya.

Just not if you're trying to get out from under even part of the blame of the affair.

January 17, 2014

There is more to most wedding vows than fidelity. Sometimes other parts of the vow are broken.

Are these parts not as important? I guess it depends on your perspective.

Unfortunately, I've learned that not all wedding vows are created equally. You could be treated like dirt for years, but if you choose to cheat, you are automatically at fault for destroying the M no matter how badly your spouse treated you prior to the affair.

January 17, 2014

Are you saying your H was just as responsible as you for your decision to cheat?

No, never even alluded to that

If you're saying he was just as responsible for allowing a crappy marriage, I'm right there with ya.

yes, BUT OF COURSE that does NOT mitigate, validate, justify, forgive, MY actions.

Just not if you're trying to get out from under even part of the blame of the affair.

Again, never tried to absolve myself from any of MY actions.

Every one is jumping to conclusions about my motives, what I meant, what things I am trying to get out of, what I am trying to hide or justify. When the bottom line is, I was merely having a bad f'in day of my own, YES due to my own actions. Was looking for a bit of support, but now have determined this was the absolute wrong place to look for support. Have since found a place.

So please, I do appreciate all the comments, both negative and positive, but this thread just needs to die a natural death. I will not be posting details of my situation, my husbands, situation, or our ongoing reconciliation here. This forum is not a good fit for my or our recovery.

January 17, 2014

Yes, of course. It's the perfect time to do so but after the damage caused by the affair has been healed. And the message cannot be 'it serves you right'. Most marriages suffer from problems caused by both parties not just one and the reasons and origins of those problems will be so intertwined and twisted over the years it is impossible to say whose fault it was. I don't know your chap or his ex but I'd be prepared to guess she wasn't 100% happy either. And as soon as you add infidelity into the mix the balance tips right over. I was by far the unhappiest in our marriage but I kept trying to find a way to improve things. I didn't have the energy to do anything alone. You would be amazed how having youngish children saps you. All I ever did was try to be the best wife and mother I could whilst holding down a full-time job and juggling most of the household responsibilities while H wandered from one job to another trying to find one that made him happy. Yes, I lost a little respect for him and the children weren't that close to him but those were down to his
choices - I was simply filling the gaps he left. He admits all this now, he doesn't blame me at all. Fwiw I don't blame him either it was just 2 people blundering through as best we could. Marriage doesn't come with a manual. But the affair was utterly cruel and selfish and did more damage than anything else that had happened prior. That is an unavoidable fact and no amount of 'well you did that first' makes a difference.

This is the best post I've seen in so long. Thank you.

January 17, 2014

OP, I'm sorry to read this wasn't the right place for you. This seems to happen to so many of the WS who come here.

Good luck to you and your H. I hope that in time both of you will find forgiveness for the other one.

January 17, 2014

Are you saying your H was just as responsible as you for your decision to cheat?

No, never even alluded to that

Actually, you said this:

I did not "step out" for no reason.

Sounds like blaming him to me.

I don't care how you see this, it's your business. I just want to be sure you see this for what it really is: blaming him for you 'having' to cheat.

Not because I'm a bitter BS (never been cheated on), but because taking that stance will NOT allow you to move forward and have a better life. You OR your spouse.

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