no one ever tells you...

January 14, 2014

How did you envision things would be after you cheated? Do you have a timeframe in your head for how long your husband should feel like this?

You are wanting people to empathize with your situation BEFORE you cheated, because that is what you are still focusing on. The pain that you were in that caused you to go looking. What people are trying to get you to do is, refocus. Look inward at why you chose to pick that avenue.

I understand that pain, the issues that made you look elsewhere, the issues that are still there. The husband that still has the same problems. The marriage that is still broken. I get it.

But you have to look at you. Why did you make this decision? Why this choice? Start with you, then work from there. I promise, it will either get better, or you will feel ok enough to leave the marriage.

January 15, 2014

I think maybe you should. I was one of those out of line. :(That is up to her, of course.

Thread starter, this is a moderated forum. Would you like this thread moderated? If so, simply alert us to postings, or a general 'please review' and we'll clean it up and take care of members who are posting outside our guidelines. Thanks!

January 15, 2014

What have you learned from your infidelity?

What have you changed?

The experience isn't lost if you better your M and learn more about yourself and being the best you can be.

January 15, 2014

Is just frustrating that years and years of my begging for change and counseling etc fell on deaf ears, and yet now that I cheated, every thing is MY fault.

That isn't the issue and you know it. You wanted to lash out and punish but instead of feeling justified, you feel guilt. And blame. And remorse. That's what happens when you screw yourself over. See, no one ever tells you that the betraying spouse suffers more, and longer. Our judgement get cloudy when we're out to strike and we lose creditability when we destroy what we tried so hard to save. No one ever told you? Come now. You knew cheating was wrong. You knew two wrongs don't make it right.

You knew all of this.

I don't know your husband, but your best bet is to tell him the things you've typed here. Promise to keep it civil. Make him promise to let you finish talking and promise to do the same. Is love there? Or respect?

It's time to flush or fix, but you can't do either if you're not honest with yourself.

January 15, 2014

I'm sorry, I have not read the rest of the thread.

Yes, it is 100% the fault of the cheater for the cheating. However, often cheating is indicative of other issues in the relationship. I had a laundry list of things that I was upset about - yes, many were overblown, but some were also legitimate.

I am very thankful to my H that he immediately began addressing those issues right after DDay, even before he had made up his mind to stay with me. He expected me to do the work where my A and issues were concerned, but he was willing to work on the marriage WITH me.

For me, it made it possible to believe that our relationship still had a future. It also took a lot of the wind out of my sails. It's hard to blame your A on your H and feel justified in it when he has already fixed the problem, or is actively working on it!

I don't think this is the norm for the BS, and I am incredibly lucky that I had the kind of spouse who was willing to address these issues even as he worked through the most traumatic thing he'd ever experienced, knowing that I was the one who caused it!

January 15, 2014

WTF? no was not asking for support for cheating. Not even sure how you could interpret such a thing.

I have admitted my mistakes.

Not sure why everyone here is so f'in hateful. Just because someone makes a ridiculously poor choice doesn't mean they don't have feelings, feel bad and wish they could fix or go back and undo their bad choices and decisions.

This is different from your OP below as most interpreted and very refreshing. Understand that there are more than a few whom are not regretful at all and misinterpretation of your OP to a highly sensitive forum on the issue can escalate rapidly.

I have recently discovered that as the one who cheated, no one ever tells you that when you are the weaker of the two, when you actually break down and cheat, you essentially absolve your partner of any and all culpability of the missteps and prior breakdowns in the relationship.

Everything essentially becomes YOUR fault, regardless of anything they may have done, or how emotionally unavailable they may have been prior to you succumbing to the temptation of the "other".

By no means and I using this to justify my actions, however the truth is always somewhere in the middle, and I did not "step out" for no reason.

I recognize I should have done things differently, however I do not feel as if I am 100% to blame?

As I stated before your H cannot blame you for the problems of your M as a result of your infidelity and you vice-versa. However most are interpreting your blame statement and truth statement as deflection, perhaps wrongly.

Your later post shows more clearly the context of your first post and i can only add that it will be a much harder position to get across to your H the problems that if you two are to R work on. He is wrong in blaming you for everything but also in my opinion you should be careful of using the M problems as any context to you cheating. Time and MC helps where there is a 3rd party to help mediate, but if he refuses to go then really he is refusing to help or be married to you.

I'm sorry, I have not read the rest of the thread.

Yes, it is 100% the fault of the cheater for the cheating. However, often cheating is indicative of other issues in the relationship. I had a laundry list of things that I was upset about - yes, many were overblown, but some were also legitimate.

I disagree, M problems and cheating are separate islands but you owned what you did entirely and you did have a unique situation as both your H and have posted. There are a few WS like sophie, yourself, coolit and others who get support here, but i think everyone got off on the wrong foot for misinterpretation of the "blame" statement.

January 15, 2014

Is just frustrating that years and years of my begging for change and counseling etc fell on deaf ears, and yet now that I cheated, every thing is MY fault.

I think if that's the case, then the partner is not very mature, and the inability to talk things out dooms the possibility of the relationship getting better.

Other issues pale in comparison. It's like someone on trial for murder and their defense is...'geesh, there are also other bad people. A gal had a late library book and Mary stole a candy bar from Walmart.'

I really think it depends on the other issues. I don't necessarily agree that cheating is the worst thing that can happen in a relationship. Certain kinds of abuse or neglect, lying about important issues (like, you drained our savings and lost the house), and other kinds of betrayals may be just as bad or worse.

January 15, 2014

No, no, NO. I certainly don't think it is your fault. I don't think BS is responsible for the affair. But I really get sick of it being a blanket excuse to not ever looking inward.

And just as an aside, if your spouse cheats, yeah, they should do what they can to make things right, but so should the BS.

I just know that my guy felt betrayed, hurt, miserable, shut down, and pushed away from his ex long before he stepped out. I am not saying it is always that way, but for goodness sake, you have to examine not just the WS's faults, but the problems in the marriage. Surely you would agree.

Yes, of course. It's the perfect time to do so but after the damage caused by the affair has been healed. And the message cannot be 'it serves you right'. Most marriages suffer from problems caused by both parties not just one and the reasons and origins of those problems will be so intertwined and twisted over the years it is impossible to say whose fault it was. I don't know your chap or his ex but I'd be prepared to guess she wasn't 100% happy either. And as soon as you add infidelity into the mix the balance tips right over. I was by far the unhappiest in our marriage but I kept trying to find a way to improve things. I didn't have the energy to do anything alone. You would be amazed how having youngish children saps you. All I ever did was try to be the best wife and mother I could whilst holding down a full-time job and juggling most of the household responsibilities while H wandered from one job to another trying to find one that made him happy. Yes, I lost a little respect for him and the children weren't that close to him but those were down to his

choices - I was simply filling the gaps he left. He admits all this now, he doesn't blame me at all. Fwiw I don't blame him either it was just 2 people blundering through as best we could. Marriage doesn't come with a manual. But the affair was utterly cruel and selfish and did more damage than anything else that had happened prior. That is an unavoidable fact and no amount of 'well you did that first' makes a difference.

January 15, 2014

Ms_enigmatic, if you haven’t left the thread, I would like to offer you an attempt of an explanation (in a bit more detail) as to why everything else is placed second to your infidelity. You haven’t revealed anything about the conditions of your affair/ONS or whatever it was, so most of the following is only relevant if you didn’t tell your husband about your affair in advance.

People who have secret affairs, they lie. People who lie, they can’t be trusted. It’s very difficult to work at any problem with a person who can’t be trusted. You have to evaluate every single sentence they say and then try to verify it yourself.

Imagine that you suggest your husband and you should see a marriage counsellor. He may think (I know because I did):” Yeah, and pay 200$ an hour to have some stranger listen to a bunch of lies, how is that going to help?” Or he may think “I bet she offers this just to throw me off the track of her continued cheating”.

Add to this the continued doubt he has as to if you really want the relationship or not. He needs to be able to trust you to some degree in order to invest further in the relationship. And that’s why you have to address your infidelity first. Personally, I wouldn’t invest one second in working on a relationship my wife if I didn’t know (as in almost certain) if she continued seeing the other dude at the same time or not.

You must build a platform of shared trust in the relationship, how shaky it might be, in order to move on.

I would like to comment a bit on what appeared to be deflection and blame shifting in your recent posts. It’s a very common thing to do, and you also managed to get some posters to support it, and if you try other fora as well, posters may even tell you something along with “He had it coming” or “What did he expect when he treated you that bad…”

You’re not going to get those lines from me. I believe that the vast majority of people want to be good people. “Normal” people don’t really want to betray those close to them. And yet they do. And it’s hard to wake up to reality, to see the destruction you’ve created, to see who you’ve become, someone very different from who you thought you were. Some people even find it hard to look in the mirror, it’s just too painful.

One way to ease the pain is to project your guilt, or a part of it, to someone else. It makes it easier to handle the consequences. Another way you can choose is to work through it, to grow from it. Learn from your mistakes and bad behaviors. Accept what you did, accept full responsibility for your own actions, and find out what inside of you made you think it was a good idea to stab your husband in the back. When you find the answer, you can apologize sincerely to those who were affected and make an effort to change in order to act different the next time an opportunity shows up.

THEN you can start working on the relationship and your husband may even think it’s worth it.

If you like to read or listen to audio, I would, in addition to infidelity literature to understand your betrayed husband, suggest a book about projection and deflection, it’s title is “Mistakes were made, but not by me.”

I hope that you will take the opportunity to learn from your actions and grow as a result, and I wish you well on your journey.

January 15, 2014

Regarding the other forum that was mentioned, I have to say that if the OP goes there saying 'OK it was wrong to cheat, but.....' she will be given very short shrift.

January 15, 2014

Regarding the other forum that was mentioned, I have to say that if the OP goes there saying 'OK it was wrong to cheat, but.....' she will be given very short shrift.

Thanks, but my premise has never been "it was ok for me to cheat" As I have said, I own my actions, not looking for absolution, or exoneration. Did not intend to try and deflect any of my responsibility for any of my choices or my actions.

I really was just looking for someone to say, yes you f'ed up, you hurt your spouse, you made bad choices, but at some point, hopefully given enough time, talking, crying, screaming, soul searching, rebuilding, etc, etc. There might possibly be a light at the end of the tunnel. just looking for a bit of moral support in my own moments of hurt and weakness, that YES I KNOW, I brought on myself, its my fault, it will always be ALL my fault and I can never every expect it to ever be anything less than ALL my fault. I was just hoping someone could say something supportive and even though it is ALL my fault, that maybe one day there might be hope that with enough work it won't feel so f'ed up.

January 15, 2014

Thanks, but my premise has never been "it was ok for me to cheat" As I have said, I own my actions, not looking for absolution, or exoneration. Did not intend to try and deflect any of my responsibility for any of my choices or my actions.

I really was just looking for someone to say, yes you f'ed up, you hurt your spouse, you made bad choices, but at some point, hopefully given enough time, talking, crying, screaming, soul searching, rebuilding, etc, etc. There might possibly be a light at the end of the tunnel. just looking for a bit of moral support in my own moments of hurt and weakness, that YES I KNOW, I brought on myself, its my fault, it will always be ALL my fault and I can never every expect it to ever be anything less than ALL my fault. I was just hoping someone could say something supportive and even though it is ALL my fault, that maybe one day there might be hope that with enough work it won't feel so f'ed up.

Well I can tell you that! There will be light at the end of the tunnel if you both move forward with good will and honesty. Good luck x

January 15, 2014

Regarding the other forum that was mentioned, I have to say that if the OP goes there saying 'OK it was wrong to cheat, but.....' she will be given very short shrift.

Yes, but sometimes it is better to hear from someone who has been in your shoes. Think of how many BS who get rankled by a statement made by an AP/WS even when what was said was not in fact something wrong. They really just have a hard time with the source.

January 15, 2014

I have recently discovered that as the one who cheated, no one ever tells you that when you are the weaker of the two, when you actually break down and cheat, you essentially absolve your partner of any and all culpability of the missteps and prior breakdowns in the relationship.

Everything essentially becomes YOUR fault, regardless of anything they may have done, or how emotionally unavailable they may have been prior to you succumbing to the temptation of the "other".

By no means and I using this to justify my actions, however the truth is always somewhere in the middle, and I did not "step out" for no reason.

I recognize I should have done things differently, however I do not feel as if I am 100% to blame?

How held the gun to your head?

You pulled the trigger to bang somebody. You get all the blame.

January 15, 2014

I can tell you that there is light at the end of the tunnel. If you both are there working on it.

You have to work your end. He has to be willing to not rugsweep how he feels about what you did.

Then at some point, you guys will start working on the marriage if you both start to get healthy.

It is a long road. You get to carry the majority of the load because of what you did now. But there is light. It will get better. The days won't always be horrible. You guys will laugh together again.

I didn't think I would ever see that light back in my H's eyes, it is there now. It can happen. Can you put in the work?

January 15, 2014

... but at some point, hopefully given enough time, talking, crying, screaming, soul searching, rebuilding, etc, etc. There might possibly be a light at the end of the tunnel.

For me, I didn't see the light at the end of tunnel for 2+ years. It took me exactly 3 years to exit the tunnel.

That was with 3 years of MC and IC for both of us (intermittently), lots of screaming, soul searching, rebuilding, and one of us sleeping on the couch many nights.

January 15, 2014

I can tell you that there is light at the end of the tunnel. If you both are there working on it.

You have to work your end. He has to be willing to not rugsweep how he feels about what you did.

Then at some point, you guys will start working on the marriage if you both start to get healthy.

It is a long road. You get to carry the majority of the load because of what you did now. But there is light. It will get better. The days won't always be horrible. You guys will laugh together again.

I didn't think I would ever see that light back in my H's eyes, it is there now. It can happen. Can you put in the work?

yes, I can and have been. Just as with anything we all have our good and bad days and on those bad days even POS cheaters need an encouraging word now and again from someone else who has been there, which is all I was seeking.

Thank you for your encouragement!

January 15, 2014

YOU are not a POS, what you did was.

Keep going. When you get tired, come here for encouragement. We are four years out from what I did in three days. It doesn't happen overnight, but it happens.

Good luck to the both of you.

January 15, 2014

You know, I think this is one of the hardest parts to figure out about reconciliation--for both the BS and the WS.

The path of reconciliation is fraught with missteps and minefields and mistakes. It's really hard.

My H has said much the same thing as you, Ms. Enigmatic. Yes, he was the one who cheated several years ago. And yes, I have raked him over the coals about it for a long time.

It's just hard sometimes for a BS to let it go enough to see your (the WS) side of things. We as BS are so immensely hurt by the betrayal that it is hard to see the other person's pain too.

My H and I still struggle with this sometimes, years later, when we have a serious argument about something else. All that old hurt flares up for me again and we somehow get back into the discussion/disagreement about his choice to have an A. In some ways, it never goes away. At least it hasn't for us. We've moved on, built a new relationship but some of those wounds-his and mine-run pretty deep.

Reconciling a marriage after infidelity is not for the faint of heart. Do you and your husband want to continue your marriage? Have you talked about this?

I do understand what you're saying in some of your posts and I agree that explanations are not excuses, which I think is what you are trying to do...explain why you did what you did without excusing it. However, for some people, especially here, any explanation is just an excuse. Some people cannot or will not make the distinction.

Anyway, I hope some of this helps. I can't verbalize what I mean for some reason.

January 15, 2014

Thanks, but my premise has never been "it was ok for me to cheat" As I have said, I own my actions, not looking for absolution, or exoneration. Did not intend to try and deflect any of my responsibility for any of my choices or my actions.

I really was just looking for someone to say, yes you f'ed up, you hurt your spouse, you made bad choices, but at some point, hopefully given enough time, talking, crying, screaming, soul searching, rebuilding, etc, etc. There might possibly be a light at the end of the tunnel. just looking for a bit of moral support in my own moments of hurt and weakness, that YES I KNOW, I brought on myself, its my fault, it will always be ALL my fault and I can never every expect it to ever be anything less than ALL my fault. I was just hoping someone could say something supportive and even though it is ALL my fault, that maybe one day there might be hope that with enough work it won't feel so f'ed up.

Let your husband read this! Some people learn by hearing, some by reading, some by feeling. Let him SEE this so he might just get that you are hurting too. Words are so cheap. He has probably been remembering things you have said over the years that now mean nothing. Maybe these sentences will give him hope and make him realise just how much you care.

People talk about the WS needing to prove themselves. I still don't understand how ......... NC etc is fine. But how does the BS BELIEVE that???

And when I am feeling low/sorry for myself, i read the very emails and messages I discovered on D day. NOT a healthy thing to do.

But if there was something like the above post to read, something positive and full of passion , hope and truth - THAT would be a great thing to hold onto.

January 16, 2014

My fiancee cheated with me with my best friend. he was the only man who i involved my son with while he was young, and it gutted me. I lost 10 kilos in 2 weeks, and went mad for about 2 years. There was no resolution either after an 8 year relationship he moved out(on my request) and we never discussed it. he was also famous, so i would open the newspapers and see pictures of him and her in their new house. There was no mention of the woman who financially supported him for 8 years (me) so he could get to the position he was , and reap the benefits with my "friend"

I truly fell apart, and hated him and her...

However, I look back now, and see how I contributed to the breeding ground of the affair to flourish, we did not have good communication, there was the belief that we were the "perfect" couple, and many other things.

Unless a person is a complete Ass, there is ALWAYS a problem in the marriage for an affair to happen. The marital issues are always responsible for the affair to happen, and continue. To think otherwise is to ignore the growth that an affair can bring to the marriage.

The things you have suggested, counseling, communication or divorce are a very nice concept, but often do not work in reality. Often a marriage partner involves their spouse in something without their knowledge or permission, gambling, alcoholism, withholding sex ect.

If one partner refuses to change or address the problems in the marriage, the healthier partner has a few options:

1.Keep the marriage intact the way it is and look at getting their needs met elsewhere

2.Do nothing and gradually fall into a depression that destroys them

3.Divorce and rip their families and lives apart.

The marital issues ARE always responsible for an affair, (unless the WS is a total sociopath, a term bandied loosely here, but very rarely the truth) and until married people recognize this, no true healing, or indeed deeper intimacy in their marriage can occur. this may not be popular for me to say here, but it is the commonsense truth, and actually gives the BS much more scope to heal and repair there marriage, or move on once they recognize it.

My understanding of how i contributed to the demise of my engagement, gave me freedom and understanding, and helped me let go of my anger with him and her. I wasn't a victim, I was just someone trying to love someone else to the best of my ability, the same he and her were.

PS, the break up affected him much worse than I, they are now married with 2 children, and he still feels guilty?

You are 100% responsible for your choice to involve your spouse in an open marriage without their knowledge or permission to do so.

The issues that you perceive gave you permission do to so are issues that should have been addressed either through appropriate counselling, communication, or divorce.

Those marital issues are not responsible for an affair. The person who instigates it is entirely responsible.

January 16, 2014

It is not all your fault. A marriage involves 2 people. And you are right, when an affair comes out, the WS instantly is blamed for everything, her husband may have been the digest POS on the face of the planet, but ITS ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!!

Never mind what went wrong in your marriage to lead you to step out, that cant or wont be discussed as you have to do penance. So it gives the BS spouse a free train ride, there is no "us" there is only you that Fd up, and are responsible to fix it. You cannot fix it on your own. Radical honesty is called for, which means expressing to your husband why you steped out, putting the blame? on him for what he did pr did not do.

Actually I hate the blame thing, if he loves and cares for you, he will try and look past his hurt, so both of you can come to a deeper understanding and love in your marriage. It is not only up to you to rebuld your marraige, it is also up to him.

Hugs...you only did what you thought was best at the time, as painful as it is now.

Thanks, but my premise has never been "it was ok for me to cheat" As I have said, I own my actions, not looking for absolution, or exoneration. Did not intend to try and deflect any of my responsibility for any of my choices or my actions.

I really was just looking for someone to say, yes you f'ed up, you hurt your spouse, you made bad choices, but at some point, hopefully given enough time, talking, crying, screaming, soul searching, rebuilding, etc, etc. There might possibly be a light at the end of the tunnel. just looking for a bit of moral support in my own moments of hurt and weakness, that YES I KNOW, I brought on myself, its my fault, it will always be ALL my fault and I can never every expect it to ever be anything less than ALL my fault. I was just hoping someone could say something supportive and even though it is ALL my fault, that maybe one day there might be hope that with enough work it won't feel so f'ed up.

January 16, 2014

Actually I hate the blame thing, if he loves and cares for you, he will try and look past his hurt, so both of you can come to a deeper understanding and love in your marriage. It is not only up to you to rebuld your marraige, it is also up to him.

Hugs...you only did what you thought was best at the time, as painful as it is now.

Proof that anyone can find consolation for anything if they're patient. Proof that some wholeheartedly believe love must be acceptance (and nothing else) or it's not love. Where's the women's sexuality expert when you need him? Surely evolution will take us past silly notions like honesty and integrity. Right? Meanwhile, the blind lead the blind.

January 16, 2014

Everything essentially becomes YOUR fault, regardless of anything they may have done, or how emotionally unavailable they may have been prior to you succumbing to the temptation of the "other".

By no means and I using this to justify my actions, however the truth is always somewhere in the middle, and I did not "step out" for no reason.

I recognize I should have done things differently, however I do not feel as if I am 100% to blame?

You are 50% responsible for the problems in your marriage and what you do to repair them.

You are 100% responsible for making the decision to have an affair. You're right, there are so many other options you could have taken.

I did not "step out" for no reason

The reason you "stepped out" resides within you.

It isn't hopeless. You have to noodle through the tough personal issues before you can tackle the marriage problems. It may help to remember that your H was in the same marriage and apparently didn't step out. It begins by figuring out why you did.

Once you have done the your introspection you may determine that your H isn't willing to work on the marriage and then you have other decisions to make, if that proves to be the case.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Snipercatt

January 16, 2014

It may help to remember that your H was in the same marriage and apparently didn't step out.

This is not true. He wasn't on the receiving end of how he was treating her. Each person is in a different M. Different perceptions. Still no excuse for cheating, always the wrong choice. But they were both in a different M. Different experiences.

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