scarletibis Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 Been reading the threads, and the "in love with 2 women" thread just got me thinking some. This is really for all the OW (but others are more than free to chime in): Do you really feel your MM loves you? I do, but then I come here and read all these threads, and of course it gets me thinking, which I'm sure is their purpose - make us think about what we're doing. I like to think that every situation is different though, special...but... I think to myself "Of course he loves me, but too many things keep him from leaving at the present time." And then, what do you know, I read that exact same thing in numerous posts. I don't know. I'm just all confused (or hormonal.) Maybe I'm just missing my MM. Maybe I'm being way too naive, but I do - I do think he loves me! Am I alone in this? Do you believe your own MM loves you?
Barby Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 Honestly I think every situation is different, I believe that there are decent guys out there who get "caught up" in A's and fall in love, they may still love their wives and not want to leave but honestly may really really be in love with their "OW" as well. Then I'm sure there are situations were the "OW" is just a side piece of tail (not because she's worthless) but because the "MM" is honestly a completely selfish piece of work! In these cases I believe he knows EXACTLY what to tell the wife and the "OW" to keep them both feeling happy and gushy inside, all the while trusting his every word. Most of the time I think "most" of us try and give advice on individual situations with the "OW" and "MM" BUT sometimes the situation seems exactly like other ones seen on here and it seems obvious to outside viewers (such as fellow LSers) but other's see it as "spouting off the exact same advice over and over" but that isn't the case! Anyway so to answer the question, I think yes sometimes the "MM" truly LOVES the "OW" but sometimes I think they ONLY love what the "OW" provides (good sex (I assume) with no strings attached and no obligation). I should add that I am neither the "OW" "BS" or anything like that either!
Owl Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 I'm not a MM or OW...more the BS. But here's my opinion. I think that he thinks he's in love with the OP. You may have seen some of my other posts and what I consider to be the difference between "being in love" and "love". I think that most of the time during an affair, it's the "being in love", short-term kind of feelings that occur at the beginning of a relationship that are felt. And these last longer with the OM/OP than they do with the spouse because rarely are the MM/MW exposed to nearly as much of the negative aspects of the OM/OW as they are those of their spouses. The OP/MP relationship often isn't worn down with the grind of day to day living. He doesn't come home to the OP beat at the end of the work day smelling like doodoo because he's been working, kick off his shoes, and fall asleep over his dinner because he's exhausted. And the OP (I'm guessing) always tries to dress nicely, put on perfume, etc when he's with them. He's not trying to have his relationship with them at the same time he's dealing with the kids, the bills, etc... Often, the OM/OW is an escape from all of that daily grind. So his feelings for them aren't the same as what he has for his spouse. There's no negative feelings associated with his time with them, like there may well be with his wife who asks him to take out the trash the moment he walks in the door from work. Can he love them...what he sees of them (what the OP shows him, and what he allows himself to see), he loves. But unless this is in some kind of long term relationship built up over years, its not the same kind of feeling that someone has for a spouse that they've spent 17 years with. If you asked him if he loved you, he'd say yes he does. But if you ask him to tell you WHY he loves you, and what it is he loves about you, I'd bet that he'll relate all of his responses back to what you do for him. (I love you because you make me feel good, because you take time for me, because you're there for me, etc...). It won't be "I love you because you're the most special person in the world. You're smart, honest, pretty, kind, caring, etc...". Not that you AREN'T any of those things...but because those aren't the qualities that truly make him want to be with you. I REALLY REALLY hope this didn't come across as a bash or attack. It's not intended to be one at all. I am simply trying to post what I think most MM feel during an affair. My wife felt like she was "in love" with her OM, she said she was "in love with him, but still loved me". Again, because there was never a chance for anything negative to happen between them. Just my thoughts.
ICantStopLovinHim Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 I have to say I completely agree with you wise. What you said was true to the fact that when you are in an extramarital affair you dont deal with the every day things that your spouse deals with and that makes all the difference in the world... I was the OW I walked away. But if i ever had the chance to be with him completely would I? Honestly No i dont think so because i have all this love built up for him i am too afraid it would diminish the first time we have to deal with "real life " problems...I am in love with him and I love my current b/f. There is a difference and its exactly what you spoke about.
Author scarletibis Posted January 10, 2005 Author Posted January 10, 2005 Thanks for your reply Barby! I honestly don't feel that people spout off the same advice over and over again. That's one of main reason I like the LS community. People offer individualized advice, whether people want to hear it or not, but of course sometimes the advice people are getting is the same, because what everyone is saying is true. I get what you're saying about sometimes the MM truly loves his OW, and sometimes he's just being a manipulative @ss. I'm all confused. I think he truly loves me. We've been together 4 years now. He didn't tell me he loved me until almost 2 years into our relationship. It was definitely something that just grew over time. He even began discussing children with me, even though I am/was nowhere near ready for that (I'm only 24 right now.) He even began seeing his dr. to start proceeding with a vasectomy reversal, and I began seeing my own dr. to make sure I was all healthy, just in case. I know, it sounds bad, proceeding with something like that with an MM, who is still married. Of course nothing came of that because while he was being checked out for the reversal they found advanced prostate cancer. That was devastating, not just for him obviously, but our situation. Luckily he was able to undergo a radical prostatectomy and has been doing fine the past year. He actually seemed more devastated than I was at the prospect of us not being able to have children now. I don't think of myself as a piece of @ss (who would) even though I think it did start out that way. I'll be honest and say great sex was a huge part of the relationship in the begining (like most MM/OW situations) but we grew out of that. He actually sat me down one day and told me he no longer wanted our relationship to be just about sex, that we're more than that now. And this was before the cancer when we were still having a lot of sex. The surgury of course left him impotent for the most part, but it honesly hasn't affected our relationship (not even really sexually), we're still intimate and our feeling have only grown. He's been with his W for 17 years, and has children still at home so leaving is out of the question. Honestly though I've never given him an ultimatum, never asked him to leave, never even discussed with him the prospect of him leaving W for me. There have been times when he keeps telling me he'll do anything to make me happy, and says "Ask me anything! I'll do it! What will make you happy?" kinda like he wants me to ask him to leave...but I won't ask that of him. Thats a desicion he'll have to come to all on his own - no way I'm asking for such a thing. Sorry for just rambling on. I figured I probably needed to share my actual situation that I'm in. I'm just all confused. I know you're kinda suppose to be confused at 24 - but THIS confused...well, I don't know about that!
Naive Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 I think it's possible to love the OW but I think it's even more possible for the MM to be a BIG A** liar who is selfish that all he wants is to have fun. It all depends on the situation, I guess.
Debster Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 I think that if you have to ask and question whether or not they love you, they don't. I am not a BS or OW. I am a happily married woman. However, before I found my husband I was in relationships where I would question and ask the same question you have. I have since learned, if you have to question it, and ask if they love you, basically if you are doubting it - THEY DON'T. I know it might not be what you want to hear, but it is my opinion that a man in love SHOWS it and is in it 100%. You would never need to question it.
Author scarletibis Posted January 10, 2005 Author Posted January 10, 2005 Originally posted by Owl If you asked him if he loved you, he'd say yes he does. But if you ask him to tell you WHY he loves you, and what it is he loves about you, I'd bet that he'll relate all of his responses back to what you do for him. (I love you because you make me feel good, because you take time for me, because you're there for me, etc...). It won't be "I love you because you're the most special person in the world. You're smart, honest, pretty, kind, caring, etc...". Not that you AREN'T any of those things...but because those aren't the qualities that truly make him want to be with you. I REALLY REALLY hope this didn't come across as a bash or attack. It's not intended to be one at all. I am simply trying to post what I think most MM feel during an affair. My wife felt like she was "in love" with her OM, she said she was "in love with him, but still loved me". Again, because there was never a chance for anything negative to happen between them. Just my thoughts. No, this doesn't come off as a bash at all. I've been just visiting LS (not posting/registered) for a while, and I value your opinion Owl, especially since you bring a whole different perspective to this because of your own experiences. I agree with you about not being there for the day to day things making everything seem idyllic (I can't spell. ) MM and I have discussed how we always feel like we're on a honeymoon. He's told me numerous time he wants to spend just everyday life with me. He wants to just lay around the house, go do chores, fix dinner, fix up the house, just random everyday things that we don't get to do - he says he regrets that we don't share that - that's its a whole different experience that we don't get to share that he wishes we did. I know sharing these things would change the relationship - but he says it just makes things better, fuller. I wouldn't know though - I'm 24, never married. He's 50 so I'm gonna have to take his word for it! I'd like to think I was different and special, it's just hard sometimes. I hate being alone and hormonal.
Author scarletibis Posted January 10, 2005 Author Posted January 10, 2005 Originally posted by Debster I think that if you have to ask and question whether or not they love you, they don't. I am not a BS or OW. I am a happily married woman. However, before I found my husband I was in relationships where I would question and ask the same question you have. I have since learned, if you have to question it, and ask if they love you, basically if you are doubting it - THEY DON'T. I know it might not be what you want to hear, but it is my opinion that a man in love SHOWS it and is in it 100%. You would never need to question it. I understand that, and thanks for the reply. I usually never question this, it's just all this stuff I'm reading gets me thinking when before I never questioned his love for me. Maybe I'm just torturing myself for no reason.
BoatingBabe Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 Sometimes I think the OW is merely there to provide a fantasy life for the bored married guy. Nothing more, nothing less...Probably unintentional in the beginning for the MM....but damaging to the OW.
Owl Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 Originally posted by BoatingBabe Sometimes I think the OW is merely there to provide a fantasy life for the bored married guy. Nothing more, nothing less...Probably unintentional in the beginning for the MM....but damaging to the OW. Damaging to everyone involved friend...MM/MW, BS, OM/OW, all. I've said it before and I'll say it again...affairs are like bad car wrecks...no one walks away from one without scars. I'll never be the same after what I've gone through...hopefully my wife won't either. Hopefully she's learned a lot about herself and about me, and that will color her decisions for years to come. Even the OM in our case was hurt... I fully realize that as well.
BoatingBabe Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 Yes Owl, I am sure all parties are affected....the BS and the OW/OM most probably worse than the cheater himself/herself.
KissMyTiara Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 Scarletibis - is it the "situation" that makes you question his feelings for you? If he were John Doe, single from the street, and y'all had been together for 4 years and been through everything you have...would you question his feelings still? I somewhat agree with Debster re: if you question it, he doesn't. Only thing is, I know I am madly in love with mine, but I'm not so sure he knows it. I'm actually pretty certain he questions my feelings, because he kinda dances around the issue, using the "love" word in other contexts with me and watching me for a reaction. But, knowing that he questions MY feelings doesn't make my feelings nonexistent. Following me?
Author scarletibis Posted January 11, 2005 Author Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by KissMyTiara Scarletibis - is it the "situation" that makes you question his feelings for you? If he were John Doe, single from the street, and y'all had been together for 4 years and been through everything you have...would you question his feelings still? I somewhat agree with Debster re: if you question it, he doesn't. Only thing is, I know I am madly in love with mine, but I'm not so sure he knows it. I'm actually pretty certain he questions my feelings, because he kinda dances around the issue, using the "love" word in other contexts with me and watching me for a reaction. But, knowing that he questions MY feelings doesn't make my feelings nonexistent. Following me? Well, I've never questioned his feelings before...and if he were the single John Doe it would have never occurred to me ever to question him, especially with all we've been through. I think it's hearing/reading all the stuff about how the feeling b/w MM's and OW's aren't "real" since they aren't based on trust and honesty, and living a lie and all that...not that anyone here is saying those things really. I just feel lonely at times, missing my MM and then I come here to browse and suddenly I feel sorta bad even though it never really occurs to me that he doesn't love me...get what I mean...am I making sense? Also, I am so following you about your own MM questioning your feelings for him even though you yourself know you love him. You and your MM sound exactly like me and my own MM in that regard. I fell totally in love with him, but I couldn't bring myself to tell him, like I was scared he'd head for the hills or something, that I'd freak him out. He in turn kept hinting that he loved me and kept dancing around the subject. He would use the word "love" though ALL the time about different things regarding him and me waiting to see my reaction. Or, he'd say over and over again "you're so special to me", "you have no idea how much you mean to me", "I love everything about you", "I care about you so much" etc. When he finally did tell me he loved me I could tell he was really nervous and a tad scared. Afterwards he admitted he'd wanted to tell me for so long but was afraid of what my reaction would be. We sat there afterwards actually laughing at each other and making fun of each other for being such wimps about not saying it even though we both knew how we felt, and we even each knew how the other felt. Of course now he'll call me just to say "I love you" - just a quick 3 second call, so, I really don't know why I'm questioning his love now...I'm not really, just feeling weird I suppose. I better check my calender - maybe it's that horrid time again!!! I actually kind of think now that if he knew I was even having these random thoughts that it would probably really hurt his feelings.
SoleMate Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 There are several kinds of man/woman love: Type 1) I enjoy the benefits of being with you Type 2) I have warm feelings towards you, and count you among the somewhat important people in my life Type 3) I value your happiness as high as my own I would say about 100% of MM have Type 1 love for their OW, possibly 50-60% have Type 2, and 0.3% have Type 3.
Author scarletibis Posted January 11, 2005 Author Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by SoleMate There are several kinds of man/woman love: Type 1) I enjoy the benefits of being with you Type 2) I have warm feelings towards you, and count you among the somewhat important people in my life Type 3) I value your happiness as high as my own I would say about 100% of MM have Type 1 love for their OW, possibly 50-60% have Type 2, and 0.3% have Type 3. Yeah, I think that sounds accurate. I also think most if not all us OW are holding on and hoping we truly are that 0.3%
quankanne Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 having read a number of posts through the years about women who actively chose to become the lover of a married or otherwise "taken" man, (or "taken" women with a male lover), it occurs to me that the married party "loves" what's being freely offered, while the lover simply loves the person they're having the affair with ...
Owl Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 I'll repeat myself, just in agreemant with Quankanne... If you asked him if he loved you, he'd say yes he does. But if you ask him to tell you WHY he loves you, and what it is he loves about you, I'd bet that he'll relate all of his responses back to what you do for him. (I love you because you make me feel good, because you take time for me, because you're there for me, etc...). It won't be "I love you because you're the most special person in the world. You're smart, honest, pretty, kind, caring, etc...". Not that you AREN'T any of those things...but because those aren't the qualities that truly make him want to be with you. I'd be interested to see responses to this from the OW/OM on the board.
Author scarletibis Posted January 11, 2005 Author Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by Owl I'll repeat myself, just in agreemant with Quankanne... I'd be interested to see responses to this from the OW/OM on the board. Yes, I fully understand what both you and Quankanne are saying, and I appreciate the candor. I think in a lot of cases these things are true, but again I'd like to think I could be the exception - I think all we OW hold that hope. You know, the next time my MM calls to say he loves me I'm going to ask him "Why?" Now I myself am anxious to hear what his answer will be. Will it be b/c of what I do for him, or just because I am me. This should be interesting!!!
Owl Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 Do that friend. You know...we ALL want to hope that we can be the exception. All of us. Sadly...we're all statistics when it comes down to it. Odds are, we're NOT gonna be the exception. Look at me...pretty much 50/50 odds on having a marriage that's impacted by an affair...guess where I ended up? Still hoping to beat the odds too...65% of all marriages that have an affair end in divorce...but fighting tooth and nail to make things work out. Good luck. I hope that everything works out in your situation the best way possible for everyone involved...directly or indirectly.
Owl Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 OK...gonna do something that I shouldn't do, but I will anyway. Big shock, huh? Today has sucked for me too. Today is the 8 month "anniversary" of the day I found out about my wife's affair and confronted her with it. My proof was a log file of her IM's with the OM for the last few days prior to the discovery. This was just as they really got serious and had decided to meet and figure out if what they had online was real in person. I should have deleted this a long time ago, but I still have copies of the log files. I got to thinking about this thread, and decided to dust off that file. I've gone through and pulled out my wife's (who had the affair) response to the question framed by her OM as to why she loved him. Amazing how much this still hurts even after all the wonderful things we've done to repair our marriage. Anyway...here you go: I love you because you show me everyday that you love me.....you're a very kind and thoughtful and a big softie who tries to always prove otherwise and fails miserbly I love you (OM) because you are here you take time out of your day to be with me and show how much you care I love you because when I'l feeling down you change that....at times I feel worse for a bit but in the end I always come out of it feeling soo much better I lvoe you because you take the time to try to understand me and explain to me when I dont and take the to explain and you listne to me you really listen to me I love you because even though you're not right in front of me I know you're with me I love you because everytime I hear a song I think of you and Im happy I love you because I just do (OM) Realize that they weren't together physically. But look at what she's saying in this...its not about WHO he is....it's about what he does for her. The good news is...I'm the one doing it for her now!!! Happy D day.
Author scarletibis Posted January 11, 2005 Author Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by Owl Do that friend. You know...we ALL want to hope that we can be the exception. All of us. Sadly...we're all statistics when it comes down to it. Odds are, we're NOT gonna be the exception. Look at me...pretty much 50/50 odds on having a marriage that's impacted by an affair...guess where I ended up? Still hoping to beat the odds too...65% of all marriages that have an affair end in divorce...but fighting tooth and nail to make things work out. Good luck. I hope that everything works out in your situation the best way possible for everyone involved...directly or indirectly. Thanks Owl! I have trouble sometimes putting my thoughts into words...but, just Thanks!
fanou22 Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 "I love you because you're the most special person in the world. You're smart, honest, pretty, kind, caring, etc...". When I asked xMM why he loved this is exactly what he said. When I asked him whether he loved his W and why, he said "yes I love her, why? because she is the mother of my kids" So if I am to use Owl's logic, I will let you guys make your own conclusions
Recommended Posts