keeping details of an affair

[janedoe67]

The BS has a right - yes, I said right - to know they details they need to know. In fact, I would encourage a WS to say right up front "I will share whatever you need to know, and I will do so without justifying."

 

That being said, there is only so many times one can honestly say that the only reason they are asking their WS to recount detail by detail "purely for information." After the same detail-oriented questions have been asked and answered several times consistently....still beating them out years down the road has ZERO to do with reconciliation.

[painfullyobvious]

This is a horrible idea to keep details separate from spouses regarding affairs. The only reason possible would be if all parties agreed in earlier sessions that by session five it will be time to come clean and for now we will work on the pain and emotional needs first and then address details. This is in reverse of what usually happens. You usually need to address the affair, what lead to the affair and how to reconcile and eliminate the AP's. I would ask the counselor why keep the details private. If the answer is not one you are comfortable with find a new counselor. In my experience if there is not a connection between client and counselor best find another one

[seren]

I would ditch the counsellor, one of the things betrayal does is rob the BS of the truth about their life during the A. As part of reconciliation, truth becomes all important and if that includes all the details, then the WS should be honest and answer all that has been asked. In that way the BS can take all the details they need before making an informed choice about what next. Trickle truth is the drip, drip of information with what is said managed by the WS, many say it's to prevent hurt, but is, in reality just yet more with holding of truth from the BS to try to manage their response.

 

I posted Letter to a Wayward Spouse in the pinned thread at the top, read it, it explains about the need to know. I gave a copy to my H after D Day and said that if he wasn't honest, warts and all, then we had no future and I meant it. My ethos is, if you are prepared to hurt another and are found out, then you own it and if you are trying to reconcile, you are totally honest.

[road]

Is it common for marriage counselor to advice spouses to keep details of an affair from one another. If so why? wouldn't that make reconciliation impossible if those details came out later.

 

 

 

Common for the bad marriage counselors.

 

 

The BS deserves the truth. To ask a BS to recover the marriage after an affair is just continuing the betrayal even if the WS never sees the AP again.

[road]

Because OM and I talked really dirty by text and H read a fair amount of them, he assumed that I became a very aggressive person in the bedroom with OM. He was hurt because I have not been like that with H. I had to remind him that talking dirty and what I was like in person were not the same.

 

 

 

I find it had to believe after sending all those steamy texts back and forth that you were not worked up with extra tension. Thus when you and the OM met up that built up tension had to be released as extra physical energy in the bed with the OM.

[dichotomy]

No, the details may not be important and serve no purpose - to you.

 

I just find it arrogant, when therapists, waywards and posters seem to believe that it's their call to determine just how much of the truth another human being is capable of dealing with. Why not just ask the person in question.

 

I believe withholding the truth is self serving in most cases.

 

 

I admire your posts - always have.

 

But you understand what kind of... ummm..."details" a BH might ask of WW and her OM and the affair. Stuff that I am not sure can be reconciled or overcome by being completely honest. Stuff that women find nearly impossible to be honest about when discussing their past other lovers. Ya those details. Tough stuff. I mean is it self serving to keep somethings away from your BS?

 

I mean - the flip side - I could not see a WH saying to his BW after she asks if he liked his younger yoga instructer OW better in bed " Oh ya - my OW was so fit and trim and young - it made the sex amazing yes". Thats just hurtful and I don't see how that honesty helps the marriage.

Edited January 13, 2014 by dichotomy

[Owl]

As I previously stated, details are all important to some people.

 

The betrayal is there. That is the fundamental issue.

 

The ancillary details do not address the root of the issue.

 

On the contrary...you've missed a big part of the issue.

 

A big part of the betrayal was the deception. The WILLINGNESS to share details and be honest now, where the WS was not honest before is CRITICAL to marital recovery.

 

You're right...not every BS needs to hear the details. But any BS who wants to recover their marriage needs the WILLINGNESS of the WS to share those details if need be.

 

And...many BS's feel that they need those details in order to understand the scope of what it is that they're being asked to forgive...the depth of the situation that they're trying to recover their marriage from.

[Fluttershy]

The other thing is forgotten things that can become trickle truths. I've read a fair but on here that the WS remembers every detail. That is not always true. The longer the affair the less likely or the longer the time gap from the affair. My H was not very long in his but he genuinly forgot a coule non-sex instances. Told me when he remembered and it probably felt similar to trickle truth. But he doesn't have the greatest memory for details.

[sidney2718]

I admire your posts - always have.

 

But you understand what kind of... ummm..."details" a BH might ask of WW and her OM and the affair. Stuff that I am not sure can be reconciled or overcome by being completely honest. Stuff that women find nearly impossible to be honest about when discussing their past other lovers. Ya those details. Tough stuff. I mean is it self serving to keep somethings away from your BS?

 

I mean - the flip side - I could not see a WH saying to his BW after she asks if he liked his younger yoga instructer OW better in bed " Oh ya - my OW was so fit and trim and young - it made the sex amazing yes". Thats just hurtful and I don't see how that honesty helps the marriage.

 

I disagree. If you are the betrayed person and don't want to know, then don't ask. But if you do want to know and do ask, the last thing you want to hear is "I won't tell you because I don't think it would be good for you to hear it. How can the BS trust the WS on this. Think about it. The major problem with that is the infidelity itself. Should that be kept from the BS? Surely hearing that it happened wouldn't make the BS happy?

[Zenstudent]

I admire your posts - always have.

 

But you understand what kind of... ummm..."details" a BH might ask of WW and her OM and the affair. Stuff that I am not sure can be reconciled or overcome by being completely honest. Stuff that women find nearly impossible to be honest about when discussing their past other lovers. Ya those details. Tough stuff. I mean is it self serving to keep somethings away from your BS?

 

I mean - the flip side - I could not see a WH saying to his BW after she asks if he liked his younger yoga instructer OW better in bed " Oh ya - my OW was so fit and trim and young - it made the sex amazing yes". Thats just hurtful and I don't see how that honesty helps the marriage.

Thanks, Dichotomy, it's mutual - but I also happen to think that you're out on a limb here

 

My username could've been ChooseTruth, but unfortunately it was already taken:) - I believe in truth, the truth will eventually set you free.

 

I perfectly understand that we're all different and handles the truth in different ways. If someone says "I don't wanna hear anything about it, let's just move on", fine by me, then don't tell them anything - it's a win-win, the BS doesn't get his mind messed up with images and mindmovies, and the WS doesn't have to face the rawness of the betrayal, and the first line of defense will hold. Nothing wrong with that - it's just not for me.

 

I think that the imbalance in knowledge about what happened will create an imbalance in power and control. The WS is in control of the process and will be able to influence the BS' decissions. If R is going to be succesfull, I believe that the BS and WS needs to look at the exact same picture (reference to Joseph's letter). They may have different opinions of what they see, and that's OK, as long as the picture is the same.

 

The WS may not like to revisit their actions, but it is what it is, I think they will eventually be better off to face reality. Same goes for the BS. If I don't know who you are and what you're capable of, how do I know if I love a real person or just a mirage? I'm done with chasing fata morganas.

 

So if I ask to know the truth in any detail, of course my WS can refuse to give it to me out of goodness and for my own good - I'll make sure to return the favour and help her pack her things and not tell her exactly when the papers will be ready.

 

If I ask, tell me. Nothing wrong with asking if I'm sure I wanna know, but if I insist, don't keep it from me. Also; there are different ways of telling something, you don't have to be rude or cruel when you speak the truth. You're quote above could for instance be delivered this way instead: "My OW had some qualitites, otherwise I wouldn't have fallen for her, but it's you that I love, I think our sexlife is great, I just love when you XYZ me, it makes me feel safe and valued as a partner" or something like that - you get the picture.

 

Of course it possible that the truth is just so plain ugly that R is impossible, but then R IS impossible and it's time to move on. It's better than build a shared future on a lie or skewed picture.

 

It was meant to be a short post, but unfortunately, I got carried away

[road]

 

I mean - the flip side - I could not see a WH saying to his BW after she asks if he liked his younger yoga instructer OW better in bed " Oh ya - my OW was so fit and trim and young - it made the sex amazing yes". Thats just hurtful and I don't see how that honesty helps the marriage.

 

 

 

There is a difference between being honest and brutally honest.

 

 

BW: How was the sex with the OW, was it good?

 

 

WH: Yes I enjoyed the sex with the OW. Having sex is always enjoyable for people.

 

 

The BW did not ask if the OW was the tightest, and could she squirt gallons. There is no need for the WH to volunteer such information.

 

 

It is the place of the BS to control how much detail they learn.

[road]

The other thing is forgotten things that can become trickle truths. I've read a fair but on here that the WS remembers every detail. That is not always true. The longer the affair the less likely or the longer the time gap from the affair. My H was not very long in his but he genuinly forgot a coule non-sex instances. Told me when he remembered and it probably felt similar to trickle truth. But he doesn't have the greatest memory for details.

 

 

 

Everyone's ability to remember the details differs. Though a WS forgetting a fact then remembering it later and saying I remember this happened. Is not trickle truthing.

 

 

To trickle truth is to deliberately withhold information. Letting a little bit of truth drip out over weeks, months, years.

[road]

If I ask, tell me. Nothing wrong with asking if I'm sure I wanna know, but if I insist, don't keep it from me. Also; there are different ways of telling something, you don't have to be rude or cruel when you speak the truth. You're quote above could for instance be delivered this way instead: "My OW had some qualitites, otherwise I wouldn't have fallen for her, but it's you that I love, I think our sexlife is great, I just love when you XYZ me, it makes me feel safe and valued as a partner" or something like that - you get the picture.

 

 

 

 

It is not kind saying how good the AP was. The BW did not ask to have her own performance evaluated.

 

 

Your response comes across as a politician doing damage control. Trying to put a spin on things.

 

 

Putting a spin on things is not being sincere or honest. It is doing damage control.

[experiencethedevine]

Any 'counsellor' giving such loose advice would be wise to take up further professional development in my opinion.

 

 

Such advice is detrimental to the process of recovery and reconciliation.

[compulsivedancer]

I find it had to believe after sending all those steamy texts back and forth that you were not worked up with extra tension. Thus when you and the OM met up that built up tension had to be released as extra physical energy in the bed with the OM.

 

Of course. That was half of what made the affair so intense. But my point was that my H let his imagination run wild and thought I was being very aggressive in person with OM, so he thought I was withholding that from him. The reality is that I was exploring fantasies by text that I did not explore in person (in many cases I wouldn't have wanted to).

[compulsivedancer]

So if I ask to know the truth in any detail, of course my WS can refuse to give it to me out of goodness and for my own good - I'll make sure to return the favour and help her pack her things and not tell her exactly when the papers will be ready.

 

If I ask, tell me. Nothing wrong with asking if I'm sure I wanna know, but if I insist, don't keep it from me. Also; there are different ways of telling something, you don't have to be rude or cruel when you speak the truth. You're quote above could for instance be delivered this way instead: "My OW had some qualitites, otherwise I wouldn't have fallen for her, but it's you that I love, I think our sexlife is great, I just love when you XYZ me, it makes me feel safe and valued as a partner" or something like that - you get the picture.

 

Of course it possible that the truth is just so plain ugly that R is impossible, but then R IS impossible and it's time to move on. It's better than build a shared future on a lie or skewed picture.

 

It was meant to be a short post, but unfortunately, I got carried away

 

When H asked about particular details that I knew would be difficult for him, I asked "Are you sure you want to know this?" before I responded. Most of the time he said yes, and so I answered the question. But a few times he reconsidered it and realized that he only needed the broad outline and not the details.

 

I think it's important to ask that because the BS may be haunted with mental movies for the rest of their life. They may think they want a play-by-play NOW, but later they'll wish they hadn't gotten quite so much detail.

 

As far as the young bendy yoga instructor, I'd say something like this: "Well of course we had good sex. Why do you think I was interested in a yoga instructor in the first place? But that's what it was - sex. It didn't compare to a real relationship, and while I enjoyed it physically, it wasn't as good emotionally as what I have with you."

 

It also helps if you can follow it up with some things bendy-girl lacked in (because no one is good at everything in sex). "Yeah, she was flexible, and that was a fun idea, but it didn't really make for hotter/better sex." Or "yes, we got to try out a few new positions due to her flexibility, but she was too concerned with showing off and it was actually kind of distracting."

 

But I've been a bit brutal with my truths since DDay. That's what my BS is looking for. If he had wanted me to deliver it in a softer way, then that would have informed the way I answered his questions.

[road]

When H asked about particular details that I knew would be difficult for him, I asked "Are you sure you want to know this?" before I responded. Most of the time he said yes, and so I answered the question. But a few times he reconsidered it and realized that he only needed the broad outline and not the details.

 

 

That is wise. That is letting the BS control the information revealed.

 

As far as the young bendy yoga instructor, I'd say something like this: "Well of course we had good sex. Why do you think I was interested in a yoga instructor in the first place?

 

 

That is honest and brutal. The sex was good. Is honest and not brutal.

 

Saying that why you did you think I wanted the yoga instructor in the first place is rubbing the OM in your BH's face.

 

It is a WW saying the OM was hotter in ways that you never was, are, or will be. That implies the sex that your BH provides will always be 2nd best.

 

Great way to repair a BH's self esteem and confidence.

 

 

But that's what it was - sex. It didn't compare to a real relationship, and while I enjoyed it physically, it wasn't as good emotionally as what I have with you."

 

 

 

Men are about physically enjoying sex. They want them and there wife to enjoy it. You in your example here just had the WW tell her BH that the OM was better in bed. While trying to sound nice by saying I did not have the same emotional connection. Which is baloney because the OM had to get you to have those emotional connections for you to have sex with him. The OM did not walk up cold and said "let's have sex".

 

Being hit with an iron glove covered in velvet does not lessen the hurt.

 

It also helps if you can follow it up with some things bendy-girl lacked in (because no one is good at everything in sex). "Yeah, she was flexible, and that was a fun idea, but it didn't really make for hotter/better sex." Or "yes, we got to try out a few new positions due to her flexibility, but she was too concerned with showing off and it was actually kind of distracting."

 

 

 

Well all the BH thinks it was good enough for you to keep doing it. All those knew and different ways that you never did with me and that we can never do together.

 

And the remark down playing the great new sex was the OM really liked to show of was distracting will be taken as a politician doing damage control.

 

But I've been a bit brutal with my truths since DDay. That's what my BS is looking for. If he had wanted me to deliver it in a softer way, then that would have informed the way I answered his questions.

 

 

There is a difference between being honest and brutal. Putting a spin on things does not lessen the damage. Just because a BH says be brutal does not mean the WW has to be brutal.

 

She can be direct and still not be brutal. Usually short answers are the best.

 

Did you have sex with the OM

Yes

 

No need to qualify the answer, honest, no sugar coating, no spin put on to do damage control.

 

The BH is left to decide the next question. The BH may never ask if the OM was a yoga instructor. Given that fact without asking will cause a bunch of details to come out that the BH did not even think to ask about.

 

Was the sex good

Yes

 

No need to say how often, who was better, why it was better. Being honest and letting the BH control how info is revealed. The answer will hurt but the WW was honest without being brutal.