xAkulax Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 Is it common for marriage counselor to advice spouses to keep details of an affair from one another. If so why? wouldn't that make reconciliation impossible if those details came out later.
aliveagain Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 Get a new counsellor, one that specializes in infidelity. There can be no reconciliation without honesty. The depth of the betrayal may change your wanting to reconcile. 10
Author xAkulax Posted January 11, 2014 Author Posted January 11, 2014 i'm not married if anyone was curious i just want to know if this was normal
TaraMaiden Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 What is your interest then? No, it's not normal. The point of counselling is free expression and transparency. What has led you to think (if that is the case) that this might be normal....? 1
Author xAkulax Posted January 11, 2014 Author Posted January 11, 2014 It's called basic human curiosity. I only ask because I recently read a thread where one spouse was told to keep some details of the affair to them self's and I was surprised I dint know if this was common or not that why i asked.
TaraMaiden Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 I can't imagine for a second why on earth they would have been advised to do that.... When I worked for a Counselling organisation, we advised couples to be completely honest with one another. Revelations of this kind often came out in bits and pieces.... gradually, the whole picture was built and shown, but over time. Some people cannot take the full story in one hit, even if they want it.... But honesty and transparency are absolutely vital if one is to rebuild - and re-gain - trust. It also depends what each person wants. Counselling is not a tool specifically used to keep people together, necessarily. Some people don't want to stay together. But people ALWAYS want honesty, clarity and to understand motives. 1
Betrayed&Stayed Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 Is it common for marriage counselor to advice spouses to keep details of an affair from one another. If so why? wouldn't that make reconciliation impossible if those details came out later. If a betrayed spouse needs the details in order to deal with the fall out, then the wayward spouse is obligated to provide those details. It is not the place of a counselor or a wayward spouse to dictate what details are pertinent, and which ones are not. Some BS's need a lot of details, others do not. At first I did not need a lot of details. But as I passed through the initial Denial stage and processed the depth of betrayal, then I required a lot of details.
dichotomy Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Enough details to deal with the affair - certainly things like why - where, when, and how. But two therapist have advised getting into certain "details" that would not be helpful but sometimes plague my mind - how was the sex really, the kind of disgusting details ones mind often goes to afterwards. But really how honest you think a WS is going to be on the fine sexual details? However there are couples here who have very much been open with more dirty details. But that information can be unheard. But everything else I do think should be shared for sure. 2
Spark1111 Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 there are a lot of crappy counselors out there that think that. Find another counselor. The BS should have all their questions answered truthfully. It is necessary to restore trust. If the BS senses the WS is holding back for WHATEVER reason, they most like assume it's because the WS still harbors feelings for the AP. Terrible, terrible advice....yet it is often given. 2
Realist3 Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Is it common for marriage counselor to advice spouses to keep details of an affair from one another. If so why? wouldn't that make reconciliation impossible if those details came out later. To some the details are all important. How many times? Where? What positions? All sorts of stuff. At the end of the day the basic fact is still the same. Getting lost and consumed with all of those details serves absoutely no purpose. 3
Fluttershy Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 If I were to advise a WS on what to confess I would say everything but play bu play details and to write it down. So when you met. Where you met, how it progressed, as much physical contact as you had, when, where. How often you talked planned. Make it an outline. But leave out things like positions and stuff. Mention if you used protection or not. If te BS wants to know how the sex was be honest- but be sure to tell them that it was hightened by the whole affair effect. And I'd avoid saying "the best I ever had". If the BS wants gritty details then be honest in positions. If they want to know what was said then tell as much as you can rememebr. And to BS I would say think for a bit on what you really need to know. Maybe general questions are better like "did you doanything with him/her we havent done" and "where did you do it". For some less info is good for others their imaginations are their worst enemy... Think about who you are before you go digging for details. I think that their are a wide range of counsellors who all have different views and opinions. And frankly some of them are bat poo crazy. And then think of how many people on here make up sht too. I could say: My MC told us that in order to heal we needed to go meet with the other couple and have a big happy meeting. 5
BetrayedH Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 To some the details are all important. How many times? Where? What positions? All sorts of stuff. At the end of the day the basic fact is still the same. Getting lost and consumed with all of those details serves absoutely no purpose. Not to necessarily disagree with your statement but I would posit that sometimes the import is in the willingness to share the details. 2
Fluttershy Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Not to necessarily disagree with your statement but I would posit that sometimes the import is in the willingness to share the details. Or if the details stop wild imaginations. Like the stereo-type that WS (specially WW) do sexual things with their AP they never dis with their spouse. But the reality in that situation is it was vanilla sex topped with the chocolate syrup of strange or forbidden lust. 6
Sofie2013 Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Is it common for marriage counselor to advice spouses to keep details of an affair from one another. If so why? wouldn't that make reconciliation impossible if those details came out later. Well my counselor told if I want to reconcile then I have to tell my husband. Although she did tell not to do it all at once unless that what my husband wanted. She believes the WS should only tell the BS the details BS wants to know. I agree with her 4
dichotomy Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Or if the details stop wild imaginations. Like the stereo-type that WS (specially WW) do sexual things with their AP they never dis with their spouse. But the reality in that situation is it was vanilla sex topped with the chocolate syrup of strange or forbidden lust. I mean you bring up a good point - sometimes the imagination of BS (particualry BH) is worse than the actual sex, or it was the illicitness of it that heighten it as you say for sure...... but...... it is not always a stereotype that a WW does engage in acts or enjoys it more outside of the role as wife and mom. I can think of several stories here were the WW did in fact engage in sexual acts (from anal to oral) and BH found this out.... and it caused terrible pain and issues in reconciliation. Men react differently to these kind of specific details - and the images stay in our head. Also there tends to be an other detail men get "hung" up about that one wonders if it should be shared in detail. But then there are tons of other sharing details that I think show the level of betrayal like doing it in the house, the car, or involving meeting the kids. Ya the devil is in the details sometimes. Edited January 12, 2014 by dichotomy 2
Zenstudent Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 To some the details are all important. How many times? Where? What positions? All sorts of stuff. At the end of the day the basic fact is still the same. Getting lost and consumed with all of those details serves absoutely no purpose. No, the details may not be important and serve no purpose - to you. I just find it arrogant, when therapists, waywards and posters seem to believe that it's their call to determine just how much of the truth another human being is capable of dealing with. Why not just ask the person in question. I believe withholding the truth is self serving in most cases. 9
lilmisscantbewrong Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 I didn't really want details from my husbands affair. I wanted to know when and where and how long it had been going on - that was trickle truth (from "it only became physical recently, to 9 months ago, to only on Tuesdays, to some Saturdays, etc.). I found that to be funny because when he asked me questions I told him the truth immediately. He didn't want details about my affair really either, but he did want to know how many times we met in hotels and he wanted the names of the hotels. The thing is I don't know if all truth will ever be disclosed - you cannot know for certain if they have told you everything. The biggest question my husband had was "why?". That is really what he wanted to know and I don't know if I can ever fully answer that question because I am not completely certain I know - except that I was broken. I know the reason he had his affair, but my sadness(and his) comes in not being able to explain why I had mine.
BetrayedH Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 No, the details may not be important and serve no purpose - to you. I just find it arrogant, when therapists, waywards and posters seem to believe that it's their call to determine just how much of the truth another human being is capable of dealing with. Why not just ask the person in question. I believe withholding the truth is self serving in most cases. I agree. Willingness to share the details provides the BS with a measure of respect that isn't granted during the affair. We are denied information and the right to make informed choices. It isn't to protect us; it is self-serving and it's a continuation of the disrespect when we're denied the ability to come to grips with the actual reality of what's happened and instead handed some watered- down version of the truth as if we're not adult enough to handle it. Seriously, of the two people involved, which one appears the most unable to make adult decisions? I also think that some of it has to do with the BS having the courage to hear the truth so they can come to grips with it. After being lied to, we just want to know the honest reality so that we can make a decent decision about what to do. I nearly lost my fool head just trying to determine what was the truth so I could deal with it. Trying to sift thru lies and avoidance really compounds the problem. But the affair is such an ego blow that I blamed myself extensively. People said I was in denial. I got irritated with that statement because there was no denying what happened; I had the evidence right before me and knew it was true. Only more recently have I come to understand that I was in denial about how significant the affair was. I saw my wife as having some kind of temporary insanity and I was focused on the task of fixing it. Perhaps I'm not explaining myself well but having the courage to really look at the physical and emotional side of the affair was something I had to garner over time. I needed to be able to face those details; it's not healthy to sweep them under the rug. Bear in mind, this is coming from a person that is pretty much in agreement with Sofie's therapist. It really gets down to the BS. If they need the details, they need them (for a variety of reasons). If they don't, then they don't. I think it's ok for a wayward to ask, "Are you sure this is something you want to hear?" But if the answer is yes, then I think the BS deserves the truth. I think saying that knowing the details serves no purpose is too much of a blanket statement. For me personally, I kind of needed to just go ahead and hit rock bottom so I could rebuild. And if my wife wanted to reconcile, she also needed to be willing to lay herself bare so I could feel some measure of confidence in her moving forward. I think those are two good reasons to consider just letting the details come out, however painful they may be. 3
Fluttershy Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 I mean you bring up a good point - sometimes the imagination of BS (particualry BH) is worse than the actual sex, or it was the illicitness of it that heighten it as you say for sure...... but...... it is not always a stereotype that a WW does engage in acts or enjoys it more outside of the role as wife and mom. I can think of several stories here were the WW did in fact engage in sexual acts (from anal to oral) and BH found this out.... and it caused terrible pain and issues in reconciliation. Men react differently to these kind of specific details - and the images stay in our head. Also there tends to be an other detail men get "hung" up about that one wonders if it should be shared in detail. But then there are tons of other sharing details that I think show the level of betrayal like doing it in the house, the car, or involving meeting the kids. Ya the devil is in the details sometimes. I don't disagree. Stereotypes are usually stereotypes for a reason. But each situation is different. So a WS would do better to tell the true detaisl if the sex wasn't kinky. Their BS might not believe them but at least they know they finally were honest. 2
compulsivedancer Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Or if the details stop wild imaginations. Like the stereo-type that WS (specially WW) do sexual things with their AP they never dis with their spouse. But the reality in that situation is it was vanilla sex topped with the chocolate syrup of strange or forbidden lust. Because OM and I talked really dirty by text and H read a fair amount of them, he assumed that I became a very aggressive person in the bedroom with OM. He was hurt because I have not been like that with H. I had to remind him that talking dirty and what I was like in person were not the same. 1
Realist3 Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 No, the details may not be important and serve no purpose - to you. I just find it arrogant, when therapists, waywards and posters seem to believe that it's their call to determine just how much of the truth another human being is capable of dealing with. Why not just ask the person in question. I believe withholding the truth is self serving in most cases. As I previously stated, details are all important to some people. The betrayal is there. That is the fundamental issue. The ancillary details do not address the root of the issue.
PoopHappens Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Either way, with or without advice, I would keep an accurate record of your side of an affair. And I wouldn't tell the WS about it either. Such a record serves many useful purposes. Writing things down slows the thought process and allows you to see things in a more objective light. What may seem a big deal can show as something petty and the other way around. Plus if the worst should happen, you don't have to rely on memory to form a proper time line of events. Don't feel bad about it either. You've just been screwed over and keeping a secret journal is hardly an offense no matter what the reasons. A book of your thoughts and observations is not an affair and you shouldn't be made to think it is.
sidney2718 Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Well my counselor told if I want to reconcile then I have to tell my husband. Although she did tell not to do it all at once unless that what my husband wanted. She believes the WS should only tell the BS the details BS wants to know. I agree with her I think your counselor was exactly right. In fact I agree with most of the opinions given here. The WS has to understand that the immediate reaction of the BS is to contemplate divorce. There can be no reconciliation without the BS knowing what he or she needs to know about the affair. One reason often given for withholding information is "If I tell him about that my spouse will divorce me for sure." That's a false reason, since an unwillingness to "come clean" often leads to divorce anyway. As Sofie says though, the total truth need not be dumped out all at once. It is sometimes best if in comes out over several conversations. But the WS should always be prepared to tell more if the BS really wants to know it. Men in particular have problems when they are the BS. They have many fears, many times about sexual performance, "positions", and the like. Lack of truth in such situations can lead to quick divorce coupled with hatred and great difficulty for any children involved. 2
Zenstudent Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 As I previously stated, details are all important to some people. The betrayal is there. That is the fundamental issue. The ancillary details do not address the root of the issue. True. But it's not about that. I thought I knew the woman I married, obviously I didn't. If she wants to continue the relationship after her betrayal, I need to know exactly WHO I am getting involved with. The details add to the picture Nothing more, nothing less. If she refuse to reveal who she really is, I'll bail. The same would apply to any possible new relationship. Everyone is different in how how much detail they want, but let them decide for them selves instead of treat them like objects. 3
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