Grumpybutfun Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 I have been reading here a lot this week because I have been traveling and bored in airports/subways. Seems like you have two camps of people in this world...one that wants to be right and ones that want to be happy. The right ones will argue their beliefs and points of views to the ground and not budge even though they are unhappy and alone and the ones who want to be happy will argue for compromise, wanting expectations to be transparent and will bend a little of the sake of being happy and with someone. What say you, poster, which one are you? No wrong answers here btw. Just curious as to the mindset of why one would rather be right or be happy. Inquisitively, Grumps 2
nescafe1982 Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Good question, Grumps. I've also been reading a lot more this week (I had oral surgery and am a little doped up right now, so apologies if my posts are less coherent than normal lol)... and I wonder the same thing sometimes. I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the narratives we form for ourselves go beyond logic or intellect. we form emotional bonds with the stories we tell about ourselves. Our stories are, by definition, "right." They are "right" because we feel like they are. Therefore, even when being "right" directly contradicts being (or becoming) "happy," we can cling to those narratives, even if they are clearly faulty. We are "right," dammit! Changing one's views, narratives, and values for the sake of happiness is uncomfortable, and it's uncomfortable right that that emotional spot that is the least logical part of ourselves. Sometimes I notice here (or on Facebook, or when having a debate with someone over beers, etc), that the more someone's perception is proven to be faulty, the more fervently they cling to it. Specifically because they don't feel safe to let go of the feeling of being "right," even if it's in the interest of happiness. Furthermore, in instances where I have been confronted with this decision, e.g. to be "right" or "happy," it hasn't always been clear to me that deciding to let go of righteousness would lead to contentment. Like my perspective was shaded enough i couldn't see that outcome. From a purely objective standpoint, choosing "happy" is clearly the better choice. But i have to admit I have chosen "right" several times in the past, because it's a comforting choice. 3
Silly_Girl Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 I used to be in more in one of those camps. Now I'm firmly in the other! 2
happydate Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) I have been reading here a lot this week because I have been traveling and bored in airports/subways. Seems like you have two camps of people in this world...one that wants to be right and ones that want to be happy. The right ones will argue their beliefs and points of views to the ground and not budge even though they are unhappy and alone and the ones who want to be happy will argue for compromise, wanting expectations to be transparent and will bend a little of the sake of being happy and with someone. What say you, poster, which one are you? No wrong answers here btw. Just curious as to the mindset of why one would rather be right or be happy. Inquisitively, Grumps This is discussed a lot in the mental field. The 2 extremes -- Perfectionism vs Contendnism and it has to do with your upbringing -- your parents. Perfectionism is someone who is brought up in a perfect family and always believe in perfection, even if sometimes perfect is just a viewpoint made up by that individual. That extreme makes the individual unhappy because no one else is good enough for him or her and his or her beliefs and experiences are right everyone else are less. This perfect relationship may look good on the outside, but we don't know what happens on the inside. Contendnism is someone who is brought up in a family where one person is manipulating the other to agree with the viewpoints and his or her own belief in a quest that individual belief will bring happiness to the other individual, disregarding that other individual has free will to choose whatever life and beliefs. Usually, it will end up with individuals being contend to live in a cease-fire agreement, where both individuals are trying to compromise and bend to make the relationship happy on the outside. Neither of these relationships are ever happy I think, because these are the extremes because there is pressure for either individuals to push and pull, so no growth happens on these 2 individuals. I used to be a perfectionist because my parents are known to be the perfect couple and for the longset time trying to pressure my partners to be the ideal mate and ideal relationships and always come out short. No one is good enough. Yet I don't believe in pressuring someone to conform to my ideals and beliefs either. So I chose the middle way. We can not please the world and control others. All we can do is be happy with ourselves and work with people be it happy or angry to get things done and don't take life too seriously if we don't always get what we want either. Edited January 10, 2014 by happydate 4
pteromom Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 What if being right is what makes you happy? 8
pteromom Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Seriously though, I want to be happy, but not at the expense of who I am. There's a balance to be had. You can't make so many concessions for peace and happiness that you no longer have a voice. 4
MuddyFootprints Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 I was thinking the same thing. I'm so infrequently right that when I am it does make me glow a little! 4
regine_phalange Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 That's an interesting question. If my beliefs, point of views and values are really mine, came after experience and personal reflection, I will be fulfilled. Being friends with my gut feeling and my conscience feels fulfilling, calm. Happiness is moments, intangible and unexpected, how can I even predict it? So I guess I choose "both" and "none". 1
yellowmaverick Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 I like a good, healthy, robust discussion. The result doesn't matter. 3
Author Grumpybutfun Posted January 10, 2014 Author Posted January 10, 2014 Great discussion...like I said, no wrong answers here. Just wondering, is there a distinction you make in your mind for romantic relationships/ marriage as opposed to careers or jobs? I know for me there really is a distinction. My work I have to be right or billions of dollars are wasted and people aren't managed correctly whereas with my wife we share so many values that compromise on the small stuff doesn't really chaff my mule or anything... G 1
Shepp Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the narratives we form for ourselves go beyond logic or intellect. we form emotional bonds with the stories we tell about ourselves. Our stories are, by definition, "right." They are "right" because we feel like they are. You're always the hero in your own story right? I guess happy if i had to pick but its hard to say really. At work i have to be right, have to make the right call even if it doesn't make me particularly happy - which being claustrophobic it often doesn't. But with family, my gf, i try not to sweat the little things, being right in that environment (although nice and being smug is enjoyable ) is pretty unimportant in the whole scheme of things 2
Shepp Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Great discussion...like I said, no wrong answers here. Just wondering, is there a distinction you make in your mind for romantic relationships/ marriage as opposed to careers or jobs? I know for me there really is a distinction. My work I have to be right or billions of dollars are wasted and people aren't managed correctly whereas with my wife we share so many values that compromise on the small stuff doesn't really chaff my mule or anything... G .....which is pretty much exactly what you just said! This is why you scroll down before you answer kids! 1
happydate Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 What if being right is what makes you happy? What if right or wrong doesn't matter as you can't control the outcome; though you hope you can! Once I was told that you have to truly know and be taught what is right or wrong first before you know that right or wrong doesn't really matter. 1
Author Grumpybutfun Posted January 10, 2014 Author Posted January 10, 2014 .....which is pretty much exactly what you just said! This is why you scroll down before you answer kids! Hey I'm cocky....i assumed you had already read what I wrote. Great minds and all that.... G 1
nescafe1982 Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Great discussion...like I said, no wrong answers here. Just wondering, is there a distinction you make in your mind for romantic relationships/ marriage as opposed to careers or jobs? I know for me there really is a distinction. My work I have to be right or billions of dollars are wasted and people aren't managed correctly whereas with my wife we share so many values that compromise on the small stuff doesn't really chaff my mule or anything... G Being right is so much more important to me in my professional life. But I'm an academic. We literally make our living on being disagreeable. I actually struggle with this balance in my interpersonal relationships. Especially (and I hate to say it) as a woman. I often feel torn between doing things in my romantic affairs the "right" way, and in the way that might make me happier. Case in point: I'm a feminist and feel strongly that a woman should pursue her career aspirations to their fullest possible potential. That's what "right" looks like to me. But when I'm faced with (for instance) having to limit my career choices in order to make room for the man in my life, I struggle mightily with whether I should do the "right" thing or what makes me happy (in the case, being with him, even if it means losing career mobility). I feel pressure, too, from others to be "right" (or "politically correct" maybe). It's a hard battle for me. 2
happydate Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Great discussion...like I said, no wrong answers here. Just wondering, is there a distinction you make in your mind for romantic relationships/ marriage as opposed to careers or jobs? I know for me there really is a distinction. My work I have to be right or billions of dollars are wasted and people aren't managed correctly whereas with my wife we share so many values that compromise on the small stuff doesn't really chaff my mule or anything... G If everyone works on the same frame as you and your wife, there wouldn't be loveshack.org and there wouldn't be millions of con-artists trying to sell self-help books to try and get laid by women either. That's the ideal world and certainly we can all strive for that; only if every individual is willing to improve their frame, be happy and live an authentic life free of judgement. But in the real world, we live in a world full of judgement. The judgement of right and wrong and usually we strive to do the right things but sometimes on the detriment of our own health and emotional well being. Not everyone is like you Grumpybutfun; although I have a sense that you are full being with happiness and that's why your wife packed her bags to become your life partner!! No one has to duplicate Grumpybutfun, but they can change their frame and be as happy as the OP and live an authentic and happy life. Everything else is just challenges that we face living in this world. Nothing wrong with that, but if you strive to improve yourself, you can change the world that revolves around you. Instinctly though, most happy and fair people live a good life and things just flows naturally without effort. Whereas people who are in despair, angry and in a state of sadnes always feel life is tough and then chooses one of the 2 extremes (right or wrong). Live a full life and who cares if people judges you right or wrong as long as you feel your life is full that means you are right and whatever they say is wrong. You control your own destiny! Edited January 10, 2014 by happydate 1
hotpotato Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 I'd rather be right. I've already done enough bending. 1
regine_phalange Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Great discussion...like I said, no wrong answers here. Just wondering, is there a distinction you make in your mind for romantic relationships/ marriage as opposed to careers or jobs? I know for me there really is a distinction. My work I have to be right or billions of dollars are wasted and people aren't managed correctly whereas with my wife we share so many values that compromise on the small stuff doesn't really chaff my mule or anything... G If I don't agree with the ideology of my workplace or my boyfriend, Houston we have a problem. In matters of practical nature though, I'm all about compromise. My own field of work is product oriented and adaptive, the outcomes can be very personalized, deliverables can be done in many iterations, so one can't be just "right". I have to be flexible. Feedback is very important, crucial. So there is a lot of compromise, because human needs are varied, never static and always a priority. But if the management was disgusting (eg dividing and conquering)? I would be gone with no second thought (as I have done before). Same as relationships. Let's say my husband wants kids, and I want kids, but I can't have them because of health issues. It's a matter of practical nature, so compromise can happen Maybe adopt a baby, "borrow" ovum, etc. But, what if we are both healthy, he doesnt want kids (natural or adopted) and I want kids? It's a clash in ideology, which I think is going to make both of us unhappy and shouldn't compromise. 1
happydate Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 It's ok to be wrong too. I was trying to live a life full of right -- a perfectionist remember as I was. It's only wrong in your mind because you're used to being right. It's like eating chocolate and then you eat french fries and am dissappointed becaues it's not sweet. But it provides a different perspective to you? Life is like a box of chocolates-- you never know what you'll gonna get. How many people truly embrace the life like a box of chocolates?!? I can tell you that very few are. Many live by ideals and aspirations because they've seemed to be wronged so they right what's wrong or wrong what they had been doing so right. If you got it wrong, laugh it off and be happy and be grateful you didn't cause most harm, unless you lost a billion dollars worth of sales. Then I suppose you can cry about it. I lost sales and lost my position as well, but I didn't fret about it. So what -- so I laughed it off. I got a better paid job now and has LESS stress! I suppose be wrong I was was actually a blessing in disguise! Unless you embrace life in the full, you never really know your potential as a lover in a relationship. And for that, it is an essential ingredient in being a full complete being who you are to complement another full being in a growth intimate relationship! 1
Author Grumpybutfun Posted January 11, 2014 Author Posted January 11, 2014 Being right is so much more important to me in my professional life. But I'm an academic. We literally make our living on being disagreeable. I actually struggle with this balance in my interpersonal relationships. Especially (and I hate to say it) as a woman. I often feel torn between doing things in my romantic affairs the "right" way, and in the way that might make me hap pier. Case in point: I'm a feminist and feel strongly that a woman should pursue her career aspirations to their fullest possible potential. That's what "right" looks like to me. But when I'm faced with (for instance) having to limit my career choices in order to make room for the man in my life, I struggle mightily with whether I should do the "right" thing or what makes me happy (in the case, being with him, even if it means losing career mobility). I feel pressure, too, from others to be "right" (or "politically correct" maybe). It's a hard battle for me. Nescafé: My wife has struggled with profession/marriage too so I can relate to what you are saying here. My military career had me traveling unaccompanied tours for many many months so I felt we compromised greatly in order to keep a balance between our marriage and her career...which was only right because my career and her career has always held equal importance in our hearts, but mine was always more immediate in our time frames. In other words, we wanted to be PC and say that they were equal but mine afforded a lifestyle and finance options that secured our retirements...financial security is very important to her due to her rather meager childhood. Therefore, I did pass on some advancement opportunities that would have kept me from her and our wards at times, but she always put us first. She said she would have done the same even if we hadn't received custody of the children because her priorities in life changed when she met me. It is amazing to me that she held it all together and still managed to have a journalism career that most men or women would have envied. That balance wasn't always easy and there were tears and frustrations that I caused many time because of my career. Looking back, I would have been more understanding, compassionate and there more, but during those years I was growing up too and that was the rub....we both grew together and it somehow worked for us. It wasn't easy, but a balance did occur with a lot of work, compromises and patience. She also gave more in some ways and I gave more in others. I was smart enough even as a clueless young man to know that a woman like this wasn't going to put up with being a military wife only with a passel of kids...she needed more because she is my equal in work ethic, intelligence and goals. Thank you for reading the tome, hope it helped to see another's struggles with this, G 3
happydate Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 All I can say is that Grumpybutfun and his wife is the epitome of the success in an intimate relationship -- both people are willing to grow together and both are equals. This mirrors all my friends who are successfully married as well. They all have similar ingredients of success as the OP and his wife. Which is why the majority of marriages fail, because one side says right and the other side says wrong rather than both say in UNISON -- for whatever reasons we do this together for the benefit of our growth till death do us part! Kudos G! 1
Author Grumpybutfun Posted January 11, 2014 Author Posted January 11, 2014 All I can say is that Grumpybutfun and his wife is the epitome of the success in an intimate relationship -- both people are willing to grow together and both are equals. This mirrors all my friends who are successfully married as well. They all have similar ingredients of success as the OP and his wife. Which is why the majority of marriages fail, because one side says right and the other side says wrong rather than both say in UNISON -- for whatever reasons we do this together for the benefit of our growth till death do us part! Kudos G! Happy date, you are kindness itself, but I am as clueless as other people. I just have an understanding partner, and a good sense of humor about my flailing around like a gutted fish. G
MissBee Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 Good question, Grumps. I've also been reading a lot more this week (I had oral surgery and am a little doped up right now, so apologies if my posts are less coherent than normal lol)... and I wonder the same thing sometimes. I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the narratives we form for ourselves go beyond logic or intellect. we form emotional bonds with the stories we tell about ourselves. Our stories are, by definition, "right." They are "right" because we feel like they are. Therefore, even when being "right" directly contradicts being (or becoming) "happy," we can cling to those narratives, even if they are clearly faulty. We are "right," dammit! Changing one's views, narratives, and values for the sake of happiness is uncomfortable, and it's uncomfortable right that that emotional spot that is the least logical part of ourselves. Sometimes I notice here (or on Facebook, or when having a debate with someone over beers, etc), that the more someone's perception is proven to be faulty, the more fervently they cling to it. Specifically because they don't feel safe to let go of the feeling of being "right," even if it's in the interest of happiness. Furthermore, in instances where I have been confronted with this decision, e.g. to be "right" or "happy," it hasn't always been clear to me that deciding to let go of righteousness would lead to contentment. Like my perspective was shaded enough i couldn't see that outcome. From a purely objective standpoint, choosing "happy" is clearly the better choice. But i have to admit I have chosen "right" several times in the past, because it's a comforting choice. This is a really excellent post! I don't think it is always right or happy but sometimes simply, comfortable. There is a notion about the "comfortable uncomfortable", where even if a situation/thought pattern is wrong, not that great, doesn't make you happy etc. it is still comfortable and safe and you understand that devil, so to speak, so stick with it. 2
RedRobin Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 I would love to be happy, even if it meant being wrong. Unfortunately, I'm usually right... even when I don't want to be. Now I just carry on being right, and save the messy in between of trying to be ok being wrong, but happy... because that hasn't worked either Sometimes it just sucks being right. 2
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