OLD: Activities vs dinner/coffee etc

[RedRobin]

I don't think sitting down to eat and talk means automatic dig into private life.

It has in the past. I personally take that as a way to knock me off balance. Not as a way to get to know me.

 

What have you guys spoken about for 2-3 hours on the phone each time? Nothing personal? Just idle conversation?

Some personal stuff, but mostly things about where we grew up, our current lifestyle and habits, goals... things like that. Nothing all that deep, I guess. Enough to get a sense of each other's humor, way of speaking, and conversational style.

 

You should have developed some level of comfort speaking to each other if you're having 3 hour phone convos. Therefore, having those same convos face to face doesn't seem like an odd turn. Maybe for him it feels weird that you spend hours on the phone then in person don't want to see if you can have that same vibe?

Maybe, but I'm not ready for some big romantic deal with a stranger. That's what I think he's aiming for. Some canoodling. I'm not really interested in getting swept off my feet.

 

He told me twice he's not a fast mover or a smooth talker (his words). Anytime someone has to say something twice, I'm thinking, um right. This was in response to me saying I need time to get to know someone.

 

But more importantly as others have said, dating has to be two ways. It can't just be what you want. You guys already did what you wanted the first time, so I think you should oblige him this time around. You've already been speaking for long periods of time on the phone, which is even more involved so what do you think the difference will be?

He knew before he even emailed me the first time that my ideal first meeting is something active. It's in my profile.

 

I don't mind obliging him on a sit down thing, but I believe he's going to be disappointed if he tries to rush things rather than keep it light for awhile.

 

I get this and would agree except to say that, if you have already been speaking for hours on the phone and you have already had an activity date, aren't you comfortable enough for dinner?

 

Maybe I'm too quick to judge my compatibility or rather lack thereof, but for me, if we've been speaking on the phone and already went on one activity date, I can tell or should be able to already know if I feel comfortable with you. I don't think I'd need 3, 4, 5 more of those to then be able to sit down with you and have it not be awkward.

 

I guess I'm curious about what's a right number of dates before it can be a sit down date? Or rather that you'd feel comfortable with that?

 

Maybe. I don't judge anyone's compatibility right off the bat. If we can have a decent conversation, he seems on the up and up, and he's not unappealing physically to me, I'll give it a shot. I've fallen for guys in the past that I'd never would have considered if they had obliged me to make a romantic decision about them right away.

 

I'm also guilty of getting a little fooled by the good looking charmers...albeit not too bad since I work around all men and I'm pretty wise to their BS. Nothing tragic, but TBH, would have avoided had they been forced to put in a bit more effort.

 

So now, I just don't make snap decisions with anyone unless they are a jerk or I feel they are lying to me. If I like them, I keep seeing them. If I don't, I won't.

 

The right number of dates for me? About a month's worth. About the time that others are jumping into bed... I'm deciding if I even want to continue seeing them. If I haven't developed some romantic feelings by then, it never will.

 

I will say this... in his profile he did say he was "looking to socialize, hoping for a loving and lasting relationship". Ok. So SOCIALIZE already. Is what I'm thinking.

Edited January 10, 2014 by RedRobin

[RedRobin]

Maybe this OLD thing isn't for me after all. I thought I'd give it a shot since it had been awhile.

 

 

I'm really turned off to a lot of the men in this area anyway. Too many close calls with scumbags.

 

 

Maybe I'll just have to wait until I move to a better location or keep at it with the other activity groups where I have a chance to get to know them before being obliged to be 'romantic'.

[Eau Claire]

Ideal. First 3 encounters.

 

A coffee meet.

 

An activity date (I am an outdoors person and need the same in a man)

 

Third date...where I can dressed to the nines. Dinner and dancing, etc.

[MissBee]

I don't think there is a set number of dates, it's about comfort level. I, for one, am slow to get to that comfort level. I am VERY comfortable in an activity setting, great at sharing laughs, high fives, escalating physicality and making the environment fun for her and I... But when it comes to sitdown stuff, I am very slow at that. I am guessing many people are.

 

It's a totally different environment. It is just YOU and THEM. And conversation. There is loss of control over a situation. You have to entertain her (let's be honest, men lead, right?) with your stories, if the conversation does not come natural. Sometimes it is difficult to find a topic that you're both so into that it flows naturally. Most of the time, one person is trying to keep it going, the other tries to be receptive, but may not adequately reply to keep things afloat well.

 

What you're describing for me just sounds like we're not compatible.

 

That's just me though.

 

All my relationships have been such that we've been able to have natural, easy, free flowing conversation and it was never a case of pulling teeth, awkward silence or them "entertaining" me and trying to keep it afloat like a sinking ship. That free flowing easy conversation is important to me personally and in my personal experience if it doesn't happen on the phone or after a first date it probably never will. When I meet men and it's awkward in that way it usually goes no further,.

 

I agree that doing activities is easier. It is. For me, that can also mask the fact that you're not a good match romantically, as it's easy to have fun with someone, hi-fiving and while concentrating on something else...but when you're alone you have no chemistry and nothing to say, and for me, if I am more comfortable talking to you while we're busy doing something else but alone it's crickets chirping, I just take it to mean we're probably not that compatible. But that's just me and my experience and how it's worked out for me.

[MissBee]

It has in the past. I personally take that as a way to knock me off balance. Not as a way to get to know me.

 

 

Some personal stuff, but mostly things about where we grew up, our current lifestyle and habits, goals... things like that. Nothing all that deep, I guess. Enough to get a sense of each other's humor, way of speaking, and conversational style.

 

Maybe, but I'm not ready for some big romantic deal with a stranger. That's what I think he's aiming for. Some canoodling. I'm not really interested in getting swept off my feet.

 

He told me twice he's not a fast mover or a smooth talker (his words). Anytime someone has to say something twice, I'm thinking, um right. This was in response to me saying I need time to get to know someone.

 

He knew before he even emailed me the first time that my ideal first meeting is something active. It's in my profile.

 

I don't mind obliging him on a sit down thing, but I believe he's going to be disappointed if he tries to rush things rather than keep it light for awhile.

 

 

 

Maybe. I don't judge anyone's compatibility right off the bat. If we can have a decent conversation, he seems on the up and up, and he's not unappealing physically to me, I'll give it a shot. I've fallen for guys in the past that I'd never would have considered if they had obliged me to make a romantic decision about them right away.

 

I'm also guilty of getting a little fooled by the good looking charmers...albeit not too bad since I work around all men and I'm pretty wise to their BS. Nothing tragic, but TBH, would have avoided had they been forced to put in a bit more effort.

 

So now, I just don't make snap decisions with anyone unless they are a jerk or I feel they are lying to me. If I like them, I keep seeing them. If I don't, I won't.

 

The right number of dates for me? About a month's worth. About the time that others are jumping into bed... I'm deciding if I even want to continue seeing them. If I haven't developed some romantic feelings by then, it never will.

 

I will say this... in his profile he did say he was "looking to socialize, hoping for a loving and lasting relationship". Ok. So SOCIALIZE already. Is what I'm thinking.

 

It seems to boil down to the fact that you aren't looking for the same things.

 

He seems to want romance and possibly a lasting relationship and you seem to just want an activity's partner and nothing "big and romantic."

 

I think you should make that clear in your profile. You'll of course get dudes who will assume you just want casual sex, but you could also make that clear and maybe that way you will find more men who will be happy just doing activities and then if something more develops it does...as most other people will go in wanting to romance you.

[Fondue]

What you're describing for me just sounds like we're not compatible.

 

That's just me though.

 

All my relationships have been such that we've been able to have natural, easy, free flowing conversation and it was never a case of pulling teeth, awkward silence or them "entertaining" me and trying to keep it afloat like a sinking ship. That free flowing easy conversation is important to me personally and in my personal experience if it doesn't happen on the phone or after a first date it probably never will. When I meet men and it's awkward in that way it usually goes no further,.

 

I agree that doing activities is easier. It is. For me, that can also mask the fact that you're not a good match romantically, as it's easy to have fun with someone, hi-fiving and while concentrating on something else...but when you're alone you have no chemistry and nothing to say, and for me, if I am more comfortable talking to you while we're busy doing something else but alone it's crickets chirping, I just take it to mean we're probably not that compatible. But that's just me and my experience and how it's worked out for me.

I completely understand what you are saying.

 

With that said, I think you are also letting a lot of great opportunities pass you by when you make the assumption that if you can't connect in a solo environment one on one immediately, that you're just not meant to be.

 

Take my current girlfriend for example. She is quite shy and took a long time to warm up to. I am the same exact way. But one of us had to push that boundary. Having one on one encounters was incredibly painful for the first few times. Hell, even now, after many months in, it can be a little difficult when one of us is not in a good mood. The difference is that I stuck through it. Through all those encounters that were met with difficulty, I just asked silly questions and made jokes. Eventually those walls were broken and we developed a great relationship. She's open, silly, and not shy anymore around me.

 

If the roles were reversed and I was you in this situation, this would have never lasted more than a week. I think sometimes allowing someone to warm up to you will lead to great success.

 

I do know what you mean, though. There have been many times where instant connection and flow of conversation made for a quick progression in a relationship. But thus far, the one girl that was very difficult to warm to has been the best relationship I ever had.

[MissBee]

I completely understand what you are saying.

 

With that said, I think you are also letting a lot of great opportunities pass you by when you make the assumption that if you can't connect in a solo environment one on one immediately, that you're just not meant to be.

 

Take my current girlfriend for example. She is quite shy and took a long time to warm up to. I am the same exact way. But one of us had to push that boundary. Having one on one encounters was incredibly painful for the first few times. Hell, even now, after many months in, it can be a little difficult when one of us is not in a good mood. The difference is that I stuck through it. Through all those encounters that were met with difficulty, I just asked silly questions and made jokes. Eventually those walls were broken and we developed a great relationship. She's open, silly, and not shy anymore around me.

 

If the roles were reversed and I was you in this situation, this would have never lasted more than a week. I think sometimes allowing someone to warm up to you will lead to great success.

 

I do know what you mean, though. There have been many times where instant connection and flow of conversation made for a quick progression in a relationship. But thus far, the one girl that was very difficult to warm to has been the best relationship I ever had.

 

Fondue, understand that I'm not talking about the first second we meet it should be instant comfort. The situation the OP has described of multiple 3 hour phone conversations and a whole date is for me a lot of time to gauge how we communicate and could be spread out over more than a week. Plus I have actually done the let me give it a chance thing even though it felt awkward, it never panned out. It just remained awkward. It was as a result of growing and dating enough to where I became adept at realizing the signs of when we just weren't going to get along very well that I came to see it this way.

 

I doubt any of those men I didn't date further were great opportunities for me, so I don't feel like I missed out because I moved on to dating others with whom I had good relationships and a great time.

 

But what everyone needs is different. Your personality, love language etc will determine how much you rank certain things. Based on my love languages and personality it makes sense why for me ease of communication is something that helps me to like a person early on and the lack of it leads to discomfort and disinterest or anxiety. I don't need fireworks and magic instantly but I do need to be comfortable and a certain level of being able to carry conversation. What you're describing as painful and pushing boundaries, I'm simply not used to that and while I'm sure you can have a good relationship after doing that, my preference is to look for higher levels of compatibility where it isn't an uphill battle in terms of what I see as basics like having a conversation. We will have to compromise and will come up on other issues as a couple if we are in a relationship so for me I at least need some foundational things to come easy. That's my personality though and what I need to be comfortable and not a right/wrong thing. You have described yourself as shy and perhaps that and other aspects of your personality make the opposite more comfortable for you but for me, it doesn't.

 

The last guy I dated is reserved and shy, but with me, we just got on comfortably. The shyness only came in, and I found it charming, in that he never pushed for sex and we dated for about 3 months before that happened. But aside from that our actual comfort in being alone, talking etc was very natural. So that for me is my personal minimum requirement. Once we can talk and laugh naturally early on, that's the first clearance.

Edited January 11, 2014 by MissBee

[RedRobin]

It seems to boil down to the fact that you aren't looking for the same things.

 

He seems to want romance and possibly a lasting relationship and you seem to just want an activity's partner and nothing "big and romantic."

 

I think you should make that clear in your profile. You'll of course get dudes who will assume you just want casual sex, but you could also make that clear and maybe that way you will find more men who will be happy just doing activities and then if something more develops it does...as most other people will go in wanting to romance you.

 

 

He also said he was looking for someone who shared his interests.

 

 

I AM looking for a committed relationship, ideally for life. I'm not about to make a go-no-go decision about anyone based on a coffee date or two... unless he is an obvious jerk or grossly misrepresented himself.

 

 

That's the difference between me and most people doing OLD. His and lots of other people's need to 'romance' a total stranger is the reason I stopped doing it years ago.

 

 

It is hard enough for me to find someone who shares my values, interests, and goals without getting hung up on (perhaps) a bit of shyness or awkwardness on either of our parts in the beginning.... and yea, even when I tell guys I'm looking for a committed relationship, they still push for casual sex...

 

 

So, there is no way in hell I'm doing the 'go with the flow' or 'activity partner' route... that's surely not going to lead me to guys who are looking for a committed relationship. Even those guys, though, need to cool their friggin heels.

Edited January 11, 2014 by RedRobin

[Ruby Slippers]

That's the difference between me and most people doing OLD. His and lots of other people's need to 'romance' a total stranger is the reason I stopped doing it years ago.

Well, it is online dating, right?

 

I think a coffee date can be very romantic, or not romantic at all. How about if you agree to have coffee and then go do something active?

 

What is it about this guy that's got you worried? You said he seems nervous. Well, maybe he likes you. Plenty of people are a little nervous in the beginning when they like someone.

 

You seem very guarded about him already. Why is that?

[RedRobin]

Well, it is online dating, right?

 

I think a coffee date can be very romantic, or not romantic at all. How about if you agree to have coffee and then go do something active?

 

What is it about this guy that's got you worried? You said he seems nervous. Well, maybe he likes you. Plenty of people are a little nervous in the beginning when they like someone.

 

You seem very guarded about him already. Why is that?

 

 

I don't know why I need to be romantic about anyone I just met. I look at it similar to the high school dance... A big room with a bunch of single people in it who don't know each other.

 

 

Beyond that, they are total strangers with absolutely zero social connections or any kind of filter whatsoever. People can say anything, and do.

 

 

I'm guarded in general based on my past experiences in this area/demographic. Culturally, I'm just not a good fit for the mindset here. That's one thing. The second is that I'm not doing what lots of other people my age are doing when trying to find a relationship... and that's jumping in bed first and getting to know them later.

 

 

His sense of urgency is a bit off putting based on what he SAID in his profile... about wanting to socialize and hoping to find a relationship. There are a couple of other things that didn't sit right with me either.

 

 

For instance, the topic of opposite sex friends came up. I asked him what he thought about it. He said "why, do you have all male friends or something?" (ANSWER THE QUESTION, DUDE.... don't answer me with another question). This is what he does. I ask him a question, he deflects, then asks ME a question to figure out how to answer.

 

 

Me no likey.

 

 

I told him, no, I have a mix of friends... how about you? Oh, most of his friends are female (surprise, surprise). A couple of them are exes. Ok, that's fine. I tell him one of my good friends is an ex... later on, he's got lots of questions about my friend... but like usual, isn't volunteering about HIS female friends.

 

 

It doesn't add up. He's way too slick in getting me to talk about myself or at least trying to get me to spill my guts without offering much of anything about himself. THAT is why I don't want to be stuck sitting opposite him like that right now. I'm quite acquainted with folks who like to dig and pry and I don't know him well enough to know whether I trust him with information I might offer.

 

 

Doing activities with people allows me to sort that out and get a sense of them without all the 'romance' push... or what passes as 'romance' these days.

[Ruby Slippers]

It doesn't add up. He's way too slick in getting me to talk about myself or at least trying to get me to spill my guts without offering much of anything about himself. THAT is why I don't want to be stuck sitting opposite him like that right now.

Well, that's valid. I'm very turned off by anything other than an open, honest, direct approach from a man - and that is also my approach.

[RedRobin]

Update: We're meeting today to do some indoor rock climbing... and will be playing it by ear for something afterwards.

 

 

 

 

He mentioned a place nearby that has a fireplace. (no, not my house lol)

 

 

 

 

Maybe one of the things we talk about is how he doesn't volunteer stuff When I told him how frugal I am, he tells me he's more traditional, and prefers to pay... even on big things. Not sure how I feel about that. There is another topic for discussion.

 

 

Has also said he doesn't mind making the 40 mile trip to my city during the week even if he can only see me for a little while. He certainly sounds like he's enthusiastic. Almost too good to be true. Hmm....

 

 

Maybe I need to take my finger off the skeptic button just a little.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Maybe I need to take my finger off the skeptic button just a little.

 

Wellllll....his methods seem pretty transparent to me, so I don't think you're off with what you're feeling, he's fitting the mold very quickly for me based on what he's saying, how he's responding and evasive.

 

I'm not going to go as far as to say what he's "looking for" but to me...well I'd be cautious about what he says matching what he actually means with this guy.

 

The important thing RR is you have to be in control and aware of what you want, and you also have to be communicative...you've got to let that guy know exactly what you're looking for and what you need him to do to establish that...because you're the one that has to live with how you feel and what you can or can't accept...a lot of women will accept a lot less and you have to recognize that this is what a lot of men are therefore accustomed to, they're used to investing a wee bit of effort before getting what they want...a man will say anything under the sun before you start becoming intimate, that isn't the real guy you're talking to there.

 

Don't read too much into what he is saying right now, it doesn't matter quite yet...go based on how you feel, how much you think you can trust him and how honest and transparent he is being with you, you have to be able to at least trust him before anything else..and meet him half way on that, don't just test or drill a guy...you can't just take take take, but this guy is careful with what he's saying, he's just absorbing information right now and therefore it doesn't take much for him to be called a good listener just for doing that.

 

Ask him the questions that are important to you...what I fear with you is you have a very strong agenda of what you are ultimately looking for and desire but don't know how to communicate that with the opposite sex...instead you just shutdown or avoid or act out in ways that men may find hard to understand or interpret....so try to be more communicative and expressive with how you feel and what you want/need that makes sense to these men and actually gets you the desired results.

 

Also try not to become so indecisive and flip-flop, try to make a decision and stick with it and give it a real shot, try to be present and invested...don't anticipate so much and think too far down the road...or else you're one of those people who prepare and stress over things that never even happen...it's wasted energy, just focus and be in tune with your feelings and gut extincts, don't be rash or quick to judge, don't worry so much about "wasting time"...if you feel very strongly about something then trust yourself however, you don't need it to happen 3 times just so you can say you already knew that would happen....but know your boundaries and your limits, because many times you seem like you're going one way one minute then turning the other direction the next instant...you have a lot of internal conflict going on inside of you and that can be draining and exhausting....you've got to be in control and deciding for yourself what you want or you'll just end up self-destructing or going through a cyclical withdraw behavior where you are just bitter and resentful towards the world.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Ninjainpajamas

[acrosstheuniverse]

Maybe each of you should pick a date, alternate You've had a fun active date, now he wants to spend some time focusing solely on you and not on keeping himself upright or not skating into someone else! Embrace it! The date after can be active again, if he's up for it

 

I actually tend to prefer coffee dates to any other type of date. The best way to see if you have chemistry is to be in a situation where the focus is each other: can you have a conversation? Are you good at eye contact together? Are you interested in finding out about each other? Plus it can be a short hour if you just don't hit it off, or you can drag it out as many hours as you like. It's cheap, no pressure.

 

Fun activity dates sound nice but also like a lot of pressure when you're just getting to know one another. Plus you might find that you can get on well when you are both concentrating on the activity but when it's just you two focusing on each other there's no spark.

[RedRobin]

Wellllll....his methods seem pretty transparent to me, so I don't think you're off with what you're feeling, he's fitting the mold very quickly for me based on what he's saying, how he's responding and evasive.

 

I'm not going to go as far as to say what he's "looking for" but to me...well I'd be cautious about what he says matching what he actually means with this guy.

 

 

Yea, I'm that way with everyone these days. Actions matching words.

 

The important thing RR is you have to be in control and aware of what you want, and you also have to be communicative...you've got to let that guy know exactly what you're looking for and what you need him to do to establish that...because you're the one that has to live with how you feel and what you can or can't accept...a lot of women will accept a lot less and you have to recognize that this is what a lot of men are therefore accustomed to, they're used to investing a wee bit of effort before getting what they want...a man will say anything under the sun before you start becoming intimate, that isn't the real guy you're talking to there.

 

 

Of course. However, I'd like to believe that all single men I meet aren't bold-faced liars. I believe that many of them actually do believe their own press on those things though... or have no problems saying 'yes' to the hypothetical... but really don't have what it takes when pressed on the follow through.

 

 

Women do the same things, in their own way. Lots of people present themselves in a way that is not sustainable or not authentic in the early days. Some of it is self-protection... keeping one's secrets from those who might cause harm... This is expected. Other times it is straight out manipulation.

 

 

This is one reason why I prefer activity dates for a first meeting. It gives me insight into lots of things about them that chatting across a table never tells me.

 

Don't read too much into what he is saying right now, it doesn't matter quite yet...go based on how you feel, how much you think you can trust him and how honest and transparent he is being with you, you have to be able to at least trust him before anything else..and meet him half way on that, don't just test or drill a guy...you can't just take take take, but this guy is careful with what he's saying, he's just absorbing information right now and therefore it doesn't take much for him to be called a good listener just for doing that.

 

 

I met him half way on that yesterday. I'll elaborate more in a separate post.

 

Ask him the questions that are important to you...what I fear with you is you have a very strong agenda of what you are ultimately looking for and desire but don't know how to communicate that with the opposite sex...instead you just shutdown or avoid or act out in ways that men may find hard to understand or interpret....so try to be more communicative and expressive with how you feel and what you want/need that makes sense to these men and actually gets you the desired results.

 

 

I do ask questions, but it is easy to lie about direct questions. I don't know if you remember that show "Lie to Me"... or that video I posted about lie spotting. I'm pretty uncanny in my ability to be able to tell IRL when I'm not getting the whole story from someone. It used to make me a lot more anxious and angry because I'm super sensitive to it. What I've learned over the years (thanks to that show and that research, believe it or not)... is that yes, people CAN be lying or evasive about something... but you don't really know why. It is only by getting to know someone that you get a sense of whether it is done to manipulate you, to protect themselves, or to protect someone else. Sometimes, it is just that they don't know me well enough or trust ME. Which is understandable.

 

 

 

Also try not to become so indecisive and flip-flop, try to make a decision and stick with it and give it a real shot, try to be present and invested...don't anticipate so much and think too far down the road...or else you're one of those people who prepare and stress over things that never even happen...it's wasted energy, just focus and be in tune with your feelings and gut extincts, don't be rash or quick to judge, don't worry so much about "wasting time"...if you feel very strongly about something then trust yourself however, you don't need it to happen 3 times just so you can say you already knew that would happen....but know your boundaries and your limits, because many times you seem like you're going one way one minute then turning the other direction the next instant...you have a lot of internal conflict going on inside of you and that can be draining and exhausting....you've got to be in control and deciding for yourself what you want or you'll just end up self-destructing or going through a cyclical withdraw behavior where you are just bitter and resentful towards the world.

 

 

True enough.

[RedRobin]

Ok, update from last night...

 

 

Rock climbing went well. I did do a lot better than him (I'm not competing!!) but it was something he mentioned. When I suggested it, he said he'd done it before... AND he says he works out 2-3 times a week AND is huge into windsurfing. Rock climbing uses a lot of the same muscles as windsurfing (or so I thought)

 

 

He did say "way to make your date look weak!" with a laugh. He remarked a couple of times how strong I am.

 

 

 

 

Here is where I'll add, in no way did I set it up as a competition AT ALL. I just climbed the wall. When he went up, I was encouraging and fun. He asked me for a couple of tips, which he took and improved on a lot.

He did say that this would be a great way for him to stay in good winter shape for his summer windsurfing, and that he planned to look into the rock gym closer to his home... So I think it was a positive experience.

 

 

It was me who took it upon myself to find out where the fireplace restaurant was, and we went there.

We ended up talking for another couple of hours there. He opened up more and shared more personal things there. He was a lot more reciprocal and chatty this time than he was in the past.

 

 

 

 

I'm going to say that this is another reason I do activity dates. I AM strong physically, I DO have a lot of accomplishments. I am NOT competitive about it at all (the guys are), so it is important for me to see how they react when I'm not as good as they are at something, or when I'm better.

 

 

Well, and something I was reminded of last night, but already knew... I'm a very sensual person. As in, all my senses are very active when I meet a guy. Sense of smell being very important. How a guy smells when he sweats can either be a total turn on or a total deal breaker.

Bad news for this guy. I didn't like how he smelled. At all. Even when we were in the restaurant talking... I enjoyed the conversation, he was a lot more open. I like his expression and get a good feeling around him. But those pheromones aren't lining up. He mentioned during dinner that he is 'pre' type II diabetes and it runs in his family. I'm thinking "ok, your diet sucks. That's why you smell the way you do. This is something that can be fixed." But I've been down that path before... it is always with the guys who are kinda soft all over, who have some health condition, or drink too much/smoke. They just don't smell good to me.

 

 

Also, we've been talking/seeing each other for a few weeks. I don't remember even once where he said "just got back from the gym". He did admit that windsurfing with a harness means it doesn't involve a lot of strength. I don't need a muscle man at all... but it's not cool to me if someone says they work out regularly and then just don't.

 

 

At this point, I think I'm willing to give it a bit more time because he has opened up a bit and he's shown a lot of willingness and good sport about trying the things I've suggested... I'm not dying to rip his clothes off though. That could change though. It has in the past.

I think what is funny, is that he realized I wasn't BSing at all in my profile. It seems he was a little surprised that I really can do the things I talked about... *shrug*

[RedRobin]

One more thing...

 

 

I'll say straight out that yet another reason I do activity dates is because, for me, sex is the most awesome with men whose physical fitness is pretty close to mine.

 

 

I have a hard time getting excited about being intimate with someone who is going to wear out in no time flat. Think about it. If they can't do a few push ups, how is that gonna play out in the bedroom?

 

 

My concern with the current guy is that I'd always have my eyes peeled for someone more fit and closer to home.

 

 

He says he enjoys all those activities, and he's gone along with a couple I've suggested... but I'm not seeing him as someone who does these things regularly. In other words, I'm not convinced he'd really be the activity partner I'm looking for (in addition to a romantic partner) and I'd be disappointed in his fitness level in more ways than one. I must add here... I've dated men who had a few pounds on them or average build who were VERY fit and could kick my butt. One of my good male friends is just like that. He likes his beer haha... but he also runs marathons.

 

 

Anyway, I'm concerned that I'd resent being pulled away from my activity groups where I can meet people who are demonstrating in the here and now what their likes/dislikes are and what they can manage physically.

[blueskyday]

Research shows that couples who love each other's natural scent stay together. Those who don't, well don't. So, I have to be excited by the smell of a guy or I'm done. It's simple chemistry. Those who have compatible and strong immune systems smell good to us. Nature wants us to make babies with them!

 

I always go by the smell test. Great smell = great sex. You obviously aren't compatible on several different levels with this guy. Move on.

 

As far as coffee dates go, I like to grab a coffee and sit outside somewhere with someone. You can chat, walk for a bit, and get fresh air. I'm an outdoors person but I like to have a variety of dates. Light hiking or walking date. Movie date. Dressed up dinner date. They all give a date a chance to show different aspects of themselves.

 

One nonnegotiable for me is good communication. I like to talk with someone. I don't care if he's shy and quiet with others, but I want an easy one on one conversation with him. I understand that can take a few dates to build.

 

Have fun dating. It takes time to meet a good match. You seem to need a strong physical man who is active, playful, confident, and smart. He's out there.

Edited January 12, 2014 by blueskyday

[RedRobin]

So, I have to be excited by the smell of a guy or I'm done. It's simple chemistry. Those who have compatible and strong immune systems smell good to us. Nature wants us to make babies with them!

 

I always go by the smell test. Great smell = great sex. You obviously aren't compatible on several different levels with this guy. Move on.

 

 

Me too.

 

 

We may not be compatible. I'm willing to give it one more shot to make sure it was him I was smelling and not someone else nearby, lol.

 

 

We have hugged at the end of our dates, and it was a nice, strong hug. Not wimpy but also not pushy/gropy or anything like that.

 

 

Maybe next time I see him we'll hug for a bit longer, or I'll sit closer to see how I feel about it.

[PinkInTheLimo]

Well, and something I was reminded of last night, but already knew... I'm a very sensual person. As in, all my senses are very active when I meet a guy. Sense of smell being very important. How a guy smells when he sweats can either be a total turn on or a total deal breaker.

Bad news for this guy. I didn't like how he smelled. At all. Even when we were in the restaurant talking... I enjoyed the conversation, he was a lot more open. I like his expression and get a good feeling around him. But those pheromones aren't lining up. He mentioned during dinner that he is 'pre' type II diabetes and it runs in his family. I'm thinking "ok, your diet sucks. That's why you smell the way you do. This is something that can be fixed." But I've been down that path before... it is always with the guys who are kinda soft all over, who have some health condition, or drink too much/smoke. They just don't smell good to me.

 

Smell is SO important.

 

I loved the smell of my last partner so much that when I was approaching his office and caught a smell of his perfume I went already weak in the knees. If I could have bottled that smell I would have.

 

But he was a liar and a cheater so that basic attraction did not mean compatibility.

 

Right now I take the birth control pill and it seems like there is no man at all of who I like the smell. I actually find that the smell of most guys I meet puts me off (I have a very sensitive nose so even if I am not close to a guy I notice his smell).

I take the pill because I have a hair loss problem which gets worse without the pill but the pill definitely seems to "flatten"' my libido and my attraction to men in general. Sometimes I think that if I ever want to have a partner again I will have to stop the pill. The choice seems to be between being single or being bald . Will have to stop at some point anyway as I am approaching 50 and the dreaded menopause...

[Ruby Slippers]

Girl, your process of scrutiny is a thing to admire!

 

Bad news for this guy. I didn't like how he smelled. At all. Even when we were in the restaurant talking... I enjoyed the conversation, he was a lot more open. I like his expression and get a good feeling around him. But those pheromones aren't lining up. He mentioned during dinner that he is 'pre' type II diabetes and it runs in his family. I'm thinking "ok, your diet sucks. That's why you smell the way you do. This is something that can be fixed." But I've been down that path before... it is always with the guys who are kinda soft all over, who have some health condition, or drink too much/smoke. They just don't smell good to me.

Ugh, I must agree with you that this is not a good sign. Pheromones tell so much more of the story than the eyes can see.

 

But I'm hopeful right along with you - maybe he had a bad meal or drank a little too much recently. I hope it works out. But in any case, I'm enjoying going on your dates vicariously.

 

A personal trainer (who seems nice and not player) messaged me this morning, and I was immediately thinking, "Yes! You can inspire me to get rid of my winter softness."

[Ninjainpajamas]

"I think what is funny, is that he realized I wasn't BSing at all in my profile. It seems he was a little surprised that I really can do the things I talked about... *shrug"

 

I think that's exactly what his reaction should be...because this guy is used to being able to run the show on his own terms, I get the feeling you're throwing him off his game (based on the "profile" of his behavior) a bit not just with your physical ability and athleticism but I doubt he feels in control of the romantic dynamic as he would like to...now he's feeling a bit like he's got to keep up and kind of "figure you out"...he has plenty of female friends and the like, so I'm sure he feels confident with women on his own terms...I don't know how he feels emotionally speaking but I know what he may be thinking.

 

Anyway, from my point of view I'm seeing if he can manage turning the corner...seeing if he's got an ace up his sleeve, because you've said a lot about this guy that means a lot to my interpretation of men but I won't waste an epic post describing that, and I'll save everyone from the critiques as well...I think as long as he stays on-board he'll be fine, but he's got to pique your interest carefully and gradually before you dismiss him.

 

I think what's most important for you in dating these men is how to handle that transition where seeing is believing, because unfortunately lets face it...women say a lot of things usually to us men, 90 percent of the time they don't ever back it up in the end...they say them with the intention of upholding those "standards" or "values" but Mr. Charming and maybe not even handsome but oh boy if he is walks through the door and the gig is up, now it's a landslide in his favor because the blinders are over her eyes...the euphoria and the "possibility" feels too good to pass up, after all there's always a "chance"...ultimately there are many women who would rather contend with those emotions and conflicts than not take the chance at all.

 

I get the sense you really want to take the chance with a potential romantic interest, that you'd like to dive into something worth while soon....I get the feeling you're holding yourself back and really just tired of of this process and would like a romantic partnership but I can also seeing you snap yourself out of it at the last minute pulling yourself back out of fear you're going be hurt or used...which is not a compromise you can live with...but I'm getting the sense you're losing the battle some days of sticking so firmly to your guns...which is good in a way, you could afford some loosening up...even if you don't make any radical decisions or find what you're looking for, at least you can somewhat dare I say "enjoy" the experience and live in the moment...for what it is of course, even if it doesn't get hit out of the park.

 

Anyway...

 

As far as the "smell" thing being mentioned...funny how that's been something on my mind lately, I've always enjoyed smelling a woman's natural scent...I think that's one thing I like about European women, they're less liable to be doused in perfume or some kind of lotion, and I love that opportunity to get a good whiff of their real selves.

 

I was traveling through France out of Los Angeles airport a while back, about to catch my flight...a french girl, who was pretty attractive but definitely dressed down for the long flight sat right next (closer than what you would expect) to me as I was waiting for my departure near the terminal gate...I just sat down on the floor in an odd place by the wall and was talking to a friend on the phone and asks me something about the flight...if this is the right terminal or something or other in her, with a distinct French accent....first off, yes she did have that typical kind of onion-like BO scent going on...but damn...she stunk good, she was just raw in her scent and my senses blew up like a equalizer on a old stereo...now I like a good smelling woman don't get me wrong with all the pretty pretty lotions and expensive perfumes, but she smelled great the way she was....yeah a bit homely smelling but I have no problem with it myself.

 

I've also noticed that with my own scent, some women are very drawn to it and can't get enough...a few are neutral about it, I don't think I have a bad smell overall though...but I've played sports and been in locker rooms, gyms and all kinds of situations where men were smelly and I don't know how any woman could find that attractive on some of these guys, I loathe being around a bunch of men for that reason, some smell like a straight trash can with 3 day left overs filled with raw meat. I'm also really thankful that I don't have those genes where I sweat profusely, I sweat much less than most people.

 

My preference is definitely towards finding that natural smell...if I feel like I want to bury my face in their armpit then I'm sold

Edited January 12, 2014 by Ninjainpajamas

[RedRobin]

Welll, I must say that all this romancing must be getting my 'love' bug running because I caught the eye of a couple of hunky-hunks at the gym this morning.

 

 

One of them I've seen before. After checking me out when I was doing sit ups, he made a point of coming over to do dips next to me. Yea baby.

 

 

Oh, about the smell thing. I saw him again tonight. I wasn't sure about seeing him so soon, but he really wanted to see me again and I thought, well, why not? Might as well find out.

 

 

We hugged a bit tonight. Feeling neutral. When we were talking, I smelled his breath and yep, it was the same smell from yesterday. I'm not going to flatter myself. I'm thinking that neither one of us is necessarily 'feeling' it.

 

 

Him and his last GF started things out really quick, she said she loved him within a month or so. Here I am, three dates and just hugging, which... to be honest, is pretty nice not to be pressured for more.

 

 

I dunno. Maybe I should tell him about his breath? How tacky would THAT be? Probably wouldn't be a good idea... but maybe if I segue into the whole pheromones talk next time we are on the phone. Might be a way to let this go gently without insulting him. Plus I do like him.

 

 

I found this... apparently, bad breath is linked to diabetes... and of course, a host of other diseases. Now I feel like I HAVE to say something... for his own welfare.

 

 

Breath odor: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

[RedRobin]

"I think what is funny, is that he realized I wasn't BSing at all in my profile. It seems he was a little surprised that I really can do the things I talked about... *shrug"

 

I think that's exactly what his reaction should be...because this guy is used to being able to run the show on his own terms, I get the feeling you're throwing him off his game (based on the "profile" of his behavior) a bit not just with your physical ability and athleticism but I doubt he feels in control of the romantic dynamic as he would like to...now he's feeling a bit like he's got to keep up and kind of "figure you out"...he has plenty of female friends and the like, so I'm sure he feels confident with women on his own terms...I don't know how he feels emotionally speaking but I know what he may be thinking.

 

 

Probably some of that. Yes, he's used to running the show. That's what he does in his job. Heck, that's what *I* do in my job.

 

 

He seems to be confident with women, and relaxed. Sure. I'm really not trying to throw anyone off their game though.

 

 

As far as being afraid of being hurt or used. It's worse than that. I can handle a little pain... even a little humiliation. What I can't handle is mean, vindictive, or fatally flawed men... who some association with unduly harms me professionally or puts into mine or other's minds some doubt about my judgment ability.

 

 

This area is pathetically crawling with professional looking and sounding men with horrible life histories. How some of them manage to be so outwardly high functioning is beyond me. I'm thinking about the guy who asked me out at the Starbucks who had FOUR DUI's and did prison time, yet was able to find a good job working as a civil engineer. No, I didn't go out with him. But I'm floored at their pluck for even trying with me.

 

 

I'm not about to give social lubrication or a leg up to men with those backgrounds.

 

My preference is definitely towards finding that natural smell...if I feel like I want to bury my face in their armpit then I'm sold

 

 

Yep, that's me too! Sometimes I just walk around the gym or a road race like a beagle. Waiting for the wind to bring me the scent of my next dating target. Even if it goes nowhere or they are with someone... just being around all that, um, manly manness... mmm, mmm.

[RedRobin]

I think what's most important for you in dating these men is how to handle that transition where seeing is believing, because unfortunately lets face it...women say a lot of things usually to us men, 90 percent of the time they don't ever back it up in the end...they say them with the intention of upholding those "standards" or "values" but Mr. Charming and maybe not even handsome but oh boy if he is walks through the door and the gig is up, now it's a landslide in his favor because the blinders are over her eyes...the euphoria and the "possibility" feels too good to pass up, after all there's always a "chance"...ultimately there are many women who would rather contend with those emotions and conflicts than not take the chance at all.

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but I'll say that 'managing the transition' has not been fun or easy for me... at all. There are times I feel that dating at all these days has seriously hampered and even endangered my naturally affectionate and giving nature.

 

 

You know, it is not fair to expect women to be the ones with standards and values all the time. It is exhausting. Why do guys get to 'live in the moment' while women are obliged to obsess about intentions??

 

 

How about the guys have some standards and values and treat women with respect for a change? I'd like to see guys stop assuming it's their job to push and take, and it's my job to stop them from doing that... oh, and it's also my job to be 'fun' and pleasant while they are trying to push and take too. Does it occur to some guys that getting to know them isn't all that fun these days? Most of us can tell when guys don't give a shyte about us... but WE are the ones who are obliged to give you the benefit of the doubt or else never even have a chance at a relationship. Or so it seems.

 

 

Stop lying... stop being vague just so they can see what they can get away with... and grow up and realize that nothing good in life comes without commitment. Is that too much to ask? Apparently, yes.

 

I get the sense you really want to take the chance with a potential romantic interest, that you'd like to dive into something worth while soon....I get the feeling you're holding yourself back and really just tired of of this process and would like a romantic partnership but I can also seeing you snap yourself out of it at the last minute pulling yourself back out of fear you're going be hurt or used...which is not a compromise you can live with...but I'm getting the sense you're losing the battle some days of sticking so firmly to your guns...which is good in a way, you could afford some loosening up...even if you don't make any radical decisions or find what you're looking for, at least you can somewhat dare I say "enjoy" the experience and live in the moment...for what it is of course, even if it doesn't get hit out of the park.

I do, but I refuse to do the f*ck first, ask questions later thing that they all seem to press for. "Living in the moment" is just another way to say "FWB" or "f*ckbuddy" while they sexually sample other women simultaneously and we are 'getting to know' each other. If the words 'live in the moment', 'go with the flow' or 'do what comes naturally' comes out of a guy's mouth, that's code for "I'm emotionally unavailable, but I want to have sex with you, and be vague as long as possible so I can keep seeing other women and pretending I give a shyte about you"

 

 

I AM tired of this process. It's terribly draining. Once upon a time, when I dated before I got married... when you slept with someone YOU WERE IN A RELATIONSHIP by default. And if you were sleeping with or seeing someone else when you did that, you were cheating. By default. There was none of this exclusivity crap. I didn't have to use world class investigative tactics to figure out someone's intentions back then. AT ALL.

 

 

So anyway... I really don't see any in between with guys these days. If they don't at least claim to be looking for a serious relationship (even if it is BS), I don't have time for them.... and if they can't be bothered to spend time getting to know me in advance, then good riddance.

Edited January 13, 2014 by RedRobin