SunnySide0418 Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Obviously I am going to agree with the first one and in situations where it's someone you met online the first meeting should always always be like that. In fact, she should always offer to pay in situations like that, even insist on it sometimes. Traditions should be broken and good manners should be displayed. At least when it's a blind date your going under the recommendations and word of someone you trust who set you up and knows the both of you. BTW: PegNosePete.............Great name. Awesome. I can't believe you're actually complaining about having to pay for a $12 drink. Gentlemen pay. Just the way it is ... Since when is a woman expected to pay for an initial meeting drink???? Wow, chivalry really is dead.
ChessPieceFace Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Some women do this deliberately and have little interest in anything other than free meals & drinks. Just ask yourself this -- a girl who discards you because you went Dutch on the first date - could that still be the girl for you? If so, I guess you're stuck with paying. If not, don't get chumped any further, and don't pay for strangers' food and drinks. Since when is a woman expected to pay for an initial meeting drink???? Wow, chivalry really is dead. Since the 1960's. Of course chivalry is dead. Feminists killed it. 2
MissBee Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 It was 23 years ago. We were both in the military and didn't make snot. $20 was a damn excessive meal back then. So....he paid $6 for a movie ticket AND then ordered $20 worth of food? You have to realize, a Big Mac cost $1.45 in 1988, probably under $1.90 in 1991. We should have easily been able to both eat well on that. I didn't count on him going for the most expensive thing on the menu or an alcoholic drinks. Well taking into account that it was long ago makes a difference. I was thinking about now and thinking huh, if I only had $25 I wouldn't offer to pay for dinner unless dinner was at McDonald's or something. Yea that's completely tacky on his part. I had a cousin do that to me. We went shopping with a friend of mine, we decided to go to eat at a mid-priced restaurant, she claimed she lost her debit card and only had a certain amount of cash that she spent shopping so I offered to pay for her meal. She offered to pay me back and I told her it was fine. We get to the restaurant and she orders the most expensive thing on the menu--- about $30.00 and alcohol and dessert, and my meal was about $16.00 or so and I almost always get water. We were also going out to a club later and it was already evening so my friend and I decided it didn't really make sense to buy drinks there as we would drink at home then also get drinks at the club. So the fact that she ordered a mixed drink when no one else was drinking and after we had already decided on that was also tacky. I was quite annoyed with her lack of a conscience, but I brushed it off because I did offer to pay and didn't make any stipulations about it. However, I did feel like had she had her own card she would not at all have ordered the stuff she ordered. That's also my other rule for myself, if I am out with a man or a friend who is paying I don't go wild and order things I wouldn't normally order or that I would think are too costly. But then again what I may think is costly he may not and vice-versa so I also fall back on the "Take the queue from him" rule.
gaius Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 How far do you take that? How much interest is o.k. for her to show before you feel that she may have an ulterior motive? Not being snarky, just curious. I read that some guys REALLY want women to work harder and resent that they feel they have to do the pursuing. But you distrust female pursuit. What's a girl to do? I'm not entirely convinced those guys who complain about women not doing enough work aren't just trying to mask their issues and excuse why they're single and don't really want a girl. Have you ever met a guy who claims to love women pursuing and is in a successful relationship? They're mostly all virgins or pretty close to it from what I can tell. And it isn't because women never try pursuing, most women here have at least one story about how they tried it once and it failed miserably. I guess I get suspicious when the woman has a built in ulterior motive already (salesperson) or she tries to take charge and move things along too quickly. There was one woman I met thorough a mutual acquaintance that I talked to for 2 minutes and could tell I had some really good chemistry with. So I wasn't surprised or suspicious when she suggested helping me out with something we talked about right before leaving and inquired through our mutual friend about me after. But she never tried to take charge or get sexual, just put herself in a position where I could get at her. Which feels natural and is all that's needed if the guy is really into you. 1
StanMusial Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Maybe it would help to think of dating as investing. Sometimes you put money into a stock and get no return. Sometimes you lose all of your investment. Either way you're not going to hit the jackpot unless you put some cash on the table. The best you could do would be to mitigate risk. OLD would be like shooting craps. Meeting someone through introduction or social outlets would be more like a blue chip stock. Also, if you're only putting in nickels and dimes don't expect thousands in return, unless you expect to win the lottery. 1
OpheliaSong Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Maybe it would help to think of dating as investing. Sometimes you put money into a stock and get no return. Sometimes you lose all of your investment. Either way you're not going to hit the jackpot unless you put some cash on the table. The best you could do would be to mitigate risk. OLD would be like shooting craps. Meeting someone through introduction or social outlets would be more like a blue chip stock. Also, if you're only putting in nickels and dimes don't expect thousands in return, unless you expect to win the lottery. This is exactly what my guy friends say, and they are all very attractive and successful at dating. It is an investment of their future to find exactly the right girl. I am college aged and I do not know of any girls who are out for free meals and drinks as most of them have jobs and daddy's who give them money for stuff like that. I am looking for my forever man, not whoring myself out for paltry bits of alcohol and food. Ridiculous. I am starting to think guys who think that are just really unsuccessful with women or they only online date so they feel used because it is such a meat market out there. I have never online dated for this exact reason. 1
Author High_hopes Posted January 12, 2014 Author Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) I can't believe you're actually complaining about having to pay for a $12 drink. Gentlemen pay. Just the way it is ... Since when is a woman expected to pay for an initial meeting drink???? Wow, chivalry really is dead. Good Morning...LS community. Maybe I posted in the wrong section because again, as I already said, I in no way thought of this as a date. Stan Musial.....yes, finding a women is an investment but not just money, it's my time, the effort I put in, the attention I give her. I am looking for a quality women but not just someone who likes a lot of money. To me she doesn't care if we have tacos and a beer at a local hole or filet mignon at the best steak house in town. It depends on personal preference and what your looking for. Sunny Side. I am not complaining. I have repeated it a lot. I am not angry or bitter either. This post was to start a discussion about my experience and to see what others thought. This isn't about the 12. dollars. It's my belief that in certain situations a women should offer to pay and not just assume it's a guys responsibility just because your in his company. I was asked out for a drink. I had never met this person before. It wasn't a date. It was just convenient for us to meet instead of going back and forth emailing. The way by which we meet people has changed a lot, or should I say there are more and much different opportunities then there were 30, 40 yrs ago. I am a gentlemen, I take my girl out, I open doors, I do things to help her. I am very courteous and respectful towards women. I am traditional in a lot of ways and I am also very generous. However, women are stronger, more independent, more responsible. They have more self value these days. Women have worked hard for that and deserve that. A lot of women have traditional values. It was how they were raised. They are values that were instilled in them and that's ok. In this situation though, considering all the factors, I believe she should have offered to pay for her drinks and not just head for the door. I think it would have been good manners to offer, even insist. Particularly if she didn't have interest. I usually find that the girl who offers to pay, insists on paying or throws a twenty on the bar are the most down to earth women and I normally have the best time with them. It's not about the money, the traditions, the game.....its just about having good company and good conversation. For those that had said or agreed that a women should make a man work for her attention I just have to say that when it's an overly conscious effort it's just a game. I don't think it should be a literal translation of the idea. I think it means the opposite, don't put much conscious effort into him, be yourself, take care of your own business. Don't put life on hold and allow yourself to get too caught up mentally on the him until you know he likes you (cause he will put in the effort if he does) and that you like him. By doing that you are unknowingly making him chase you. IMO, don't MAKE HIM show or prove himself. If you like him, go for it..... Edited January 12, 2014 by High_hopes
StanMusial Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 You repeatedly referred to the encounter as a "blind date" in your original post. If you met on a dating site, she probably considered it a "date". 1
Author High_hopes Posted January 12, 2014 Author Posted January 12, 2014 You repeatedly referred to the encounter as a "blind date" in your original post. If you met on a dating site, she probably considered it a "date". Hey No I didn't. I said it 'wasn't' like a blind date. If I did at any point, and I may have, things are getting convoluted a bit, it was a mistake. I know I compared it to NOT being like a blind date because in a blind date, at least your being introduced by someone. A mutual friend who knows the both of you well enough. I think I am being really redundant in this whole post. If your reading this and your one to think, considering all the factors, that it would not have been polite for you as a women to at least offer to pay for your drinks then I disagree with you, that's all. It's not about my money. It's about that whole mentality. It's great to see the different perspective though.
Iguanna Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Maybe it would help to think of dating as investing. Sometimes you put money into a stock and get no return. Sometimes you lose all of your investment. Either way you're not going to hit the jackpot unless you put some cash on the table. The best you could do would be to mitigate risk. Dating is investing indeed and I think this is the best way to "filter" between women who have pride and dignity and won't expect to be fed by strangers just cause they do them the honor to offer their valuable presence (sarcasm here...) and women who will judge a man by an outdated and stupid rule who was created in different times and circumstances. I never let my bf pay for anything for me. He appreciated that and he told me after like one year of dating "everything I own is yours". He would never have done it for a woman who would expect him to pay and pay and pay for her cause he is a kind man but he doesn't like to be manipulated...
MrNate 2.0 Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Ok so I've been in a really terrible slump and dealing with a little depression. I posted here twice recently. One about my job and living situation and again about running into a girl I dated over a year ago. My last ex. I said to myself I really need to get out. Maybe meet someone and have a drink and talk. I met this girl online who lived by me and we agreed to cut out all the online chat and meet up the block for a drink. My experience with blind dates or with meeting women online is that the first meeting shouldn't be a date. It should be super casual. I've done this before and had girls milk a meal and drinks, not offer to pay and then never hear from them. I don't know you, never met you before why should I have to live up to traditional standards in these situations? I'll always offer to pay. I'm not like that but... Onto last night, she seemed really nice, sweet even, good looking and very soft spoken. I thought we would have a drink each and be on our way. Immediately she ordered a Martini, I ordered a beer. Then we both a beer. Fine, conversation was going well. We didn't have too much of a romantic connection or chemistry for that matter but conversation was decent. When we decided to call it a night she got up and put her jacket on. The bar tender put the bill on the bar and I naturally picked it up. She didn't offer to pay her share, the tip or anything. This morning I got a text saying she didn't feel any chemistry or romantic connection. That I was a nice guy, good luck. I'm just tired of this. I mean come on. She had to have known last night that she didn't have a connection. Considering everything. Having never met before, feeling no romantic connection she should have paid for her own drinks. Plus, I appreciate a girl who will throw a 20 on the bar. Even if I do offer or insist on paying. Its a character trait. Especially in a situation like this. Thoughts?! I actually feel like telling her 'next time offer to pay for your 12 dollar martini' Maybe it's the southern gentleman in me. I don't know, but I'd always offer to pay. That's just how I was brought up. Even if we don't really click. Outside of her doing anything to intentionally just make you angry, I feel like it's really not that big of a deal. Just go on to the next girl. 2
MissBee Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 This is exactly what my guy friends say, and they are all very attractive and successful at dating. It is an investment of their future to find exactly the right girl. I am college aged and I do not know of any girls who are out for free meals and drinks as most of them have jobs and daddy's who give them money for stuff like that. I am looking for my forever man, not whoring myself out for paltry bits of alcohol and food. Ridiculous. I am starting to think guys who think that are just really unsuccessful with women or they only online date so they feel used because it is such a meat market out there. I have never online dated for this exact reason. I am often amused at this because unless the woman is clearly severely disadvantaged in life, if as far as you can see she has her life together, how can you honestly think anyone seriously cares that much about getting some man to buy a drink and food? I mean really? And lots of wealthy women who do not in fact need someone else to purchase anything also go on dates with men who foot the bill. Are they also saving their millions up and bubbling with glee to get some man to pay for some negligent amount of food and drinks? I doubt. For such men: get over yourselves please.
MissBee Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Maybe it's the southern gentleman in me. I don't know, but I'd always offer to pay. That's just how I was brought up. Even if we don't really click. Outside of her doing anything to intentionally just make you angry, I feel like it's really not that big of a deal. Just go on to the next girl. :love:
Imported Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 I have no problem paying, but I do have limits. I wish I were rich enough where money didn't matter and I could treat women with no second thoughts on finances and they can have what they want and that is great. I want them to get what they want. Try something new and cool, **** the cost. I do OK for money and I think most women can peg me for @ how much $$ I make. It usually cost me @$75 and up for a first date and that is no problem. It's not like I am constantly dating new women every week and only get one date with a girl. If that were the case, I'd have a problem with it. Not to mention, I always get something out of the date. Like spending time talking to a girl I find attractive and who seems to like me. I enjoy that and it is not a waste of my time. I like women that are concerned about spending my money. If I am paying for everything on a date, then you are spending my money. I don't want a girl to not get what she wants, but it's nice when I notice they are aware of what things cost and are trying not to abuse my wallet. I notice this and I am usually suggesting them to try the more epensive stuff that I think is worth trying. It doesn't have to be the more expenisve stuff, just stuff I think was great and maybe they never had before. When I go out with a friend and they want to pay for the meals and I know they are frugal (married dudes), I kinda feel restricted. I do have a habit of ordering the more expensive stuff, especially when it comes to alcohol and beef. Honestly, I'd rather just pay for my own meals and not have that hanging over my head. 2
MrNate 2.0 Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Since the 1960's. Of course chivalry is dead. Feminists killed it. Chivalry is very much alive. Blaming it on Feminism is just a lame excuse to justify stopping it. Equal rights and romance are two different ball games. 3
Author High_hopes Posted January 12, 2014 Author Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Ok, I think Im still not clear to some. I would have offered to pay anyway even if she had offered to pay. Unless she insisted she wasn't going to pay. Considering the circumstances she should have,. Some people find this so absurd. I have met plenty of women who have offered to pay or have put some money on the bar. Does it mean there is something wrong with them? Is this unexceptable behavior ? I don't think so... Seussy, your comment was funny. Yes, I know it was a dating site. A lot of people are speaking in terms of dating in general. I wasn't. Actually tired of saying that....... Genrally speaking.... I think what 'Imported' said makes some sense to me. It's nice when a women recognizes the value of a dollar and understands how expensive things can be or even dating in general. She shows a general concern. Probably more my type of women and it has nothing to do with money. It's a character trait......If I had all the money in the world I still would appreciate a women like that more then a buy me everything because I am a women and it's your job type. Not to say I wouldn't buy you everything. Someone mentioned successful wealthy women who never would pay for there date. I say why not? Just the offer in itself is very nice in my opinion. Shows she's not stuck on tradition or gender roles. She's self assured, self reliant and confident and she doesn't see it as a big deal. I think this conversation is common these days and only shows that there is different opinions both from a male and female perspective and that it is relevant. I've seen and heard stories of women who are serial daters. It's particularly prevalent in the online dating world. They date several times a week with the I shouldn't pay for anything mentality. They don't have to go food shopping and they get a social life. They save there money or can afford to pay rent this way. There even was an article in the paper with one girl who come forward about how she can afford to live where she lived. Some women don't understand that this actually happens. There are women who take advantage. Guys don't date different women several times a week. Not me.... I have no desire to do that. Edited January 12, 2014 by High_hopes 2
Author High_hopes Posted January 12, 2014 Author Posted January 12, 2014 Chivalry is very much alive. Equal rights and romance are two different ball games. I agree! But romance is no more about money then looks and nice biceps are about a good quality human being... No that your implying that but a walk in the park with a good person can be romantic. An expensive dinner from a guy who picks his nose and eats it isn't. 1
Ruby Slippers Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 If you're going to get upset when a $12 drink investment doesn't yield the return of a second date, just ask women out on very cheap or free dates. I really do not care if my first date with a guy is dinner with drinks or a walk around the park. I've dated some guys who are amazing at finding all kind of deals all over the city, and I LOVE that, because I appreciate the virtues of frugality and smart spending. If a guy asks me out to $4 burger night where it's normally $10-15 a burger, I think that guy is smart. 1
Author High_hopes Posted January 12, 2014 Author Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) If you're going to get upset when a $12 drink investment doesn't yield the return of a second date, just ask women out on very cheap or free dates. I really do not care if my first date with a guy is dinner with drinks or a walk around the park. I've dated some guys who are amazing at finding all kind of deals all over the city, and I LOVE that, because I appreciate the virtues of frugality and smart spending. If a guy asks me out to $4 burger night where it's normally $10-15 a burger, I think that guy is smart. It doesn't matter, no matter what the cost and no matter the outcome it would have been proper, IMO in this situation, to offer to pay for her drink(s) or to just pay. I wasn't upset and didn't view it as a first date but my feeling was that she should have done so especially if she didn't think she liked me, again considering. I had even said, I didn't feel a connection and would not have wanted to see her again. I don't think a women should just assume that in all situations a guy is expected to pay for her. She asked me to go.. I liked your answer though because it shows that you don't care 'how much' is spent as long as your having a good time. That was perfect. Your the only women, as far as I can tell who touched on that. Everyone else seemed to focus on the 'who's' spending and why they should aspect. I always like your responses.... Edited January 12, 2014 by High_hopes 1
lollipopspot Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 it shows that you don't care 'how much' is spent as long as your having a good time. That was perfect. Your the only women, as far as I can tell who touched on that. Everyone else seemed to focus on the 'who's' spending and why they should aspect. No, post #74 I suggested a park. I think the way you feel, you should stick to your guns and refuse to upgrade meet-ups to a bar from a coffeeshop, and if possible meet at outdoor places and walk around.
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