Were your needs being met?

[BetrayedH]

I disagree, i believe people do have emotional needs that are important for thriving not just surviving. We can survive on the bare minimum but in order for us to thrive? Of course some are just wants but in a marriage you need neeeeeeed time together, communication, support, and help. You neeeeeed to know the other person has your back. If your parner works 10hr days, comes home and eats in front of the tv and doesn't lift a finger but thinks it is okay because they are providing a "lifestyle" they aren't fulfillinf basic needs in a marriage. Sex too, if sex is very important to one spouse and the other spouse, knowing this, stops giving it they are denying their spouse somethin that is important and needed for their marriage to be healthy.

 

But if your spouse is available to, makes it clear they love you, makes love to you, and you are still denyin some illusive "need" being met. Then it is far more likely you are insatiable and need to look within to see the problem. Being honest and figuring out if your unhappiness is from within or without and taking steps to fix that. And btw, those steps should never be an affair.

 

Children have needs beyond food. It has been shown pver and overagan that in order to thrive they need love and touch. So I would say that right their shows that love and touch is not a want but a need.

 

It's one thing to discuss emotional needs as they pertain to building your marriage. I get that. And the semantics in that case don't bother me, frankly. But when the word is used to justify an affair, give me a break. There are other choices. You didn't "need" a second set of genitals to play with. I went thru 7 years of a virtually sexless marriage and didn't cheat. If my "needs" were a justifiable excuse, I guess I was a fool not to exercise that option.

[Fluttershy]

Needs are things like food, water, shelter, and clothing.

The topic was about "needs" and were the BS's needs being met. My reply was to this comment also about what "needs" are and I disagreed. My reply wasn't about an affairs being "need" driven but that I don't believe the things I described should be called "wants" when they appear to be vital in most healthy marriages.

[Fluttershy]

I can't really say that I disagree with you when you have chosen the most obvious examples - ie. touch/contact with other humans.

 

But I think you chose to overlook the intend of my post - on purpose? I'm sure you can think of a lot of justifications for having affairs on these boards that are merely wants instead of NEEDS.

 

I know that I have reclassified a lot of my pre-affair needs to be wants instead - I simply don't expect anything from life, wife or anything devine.

 

Zen, I never even read your post, i was replying to BH and them got called away before posting. So yes I overlooked it... Entirely. In fact when I read this post I felt slightly attacked for no reason.

[BetrayedH]

The topic was about "needs" and were the BS's needs being met. My reply was to this comment also about what "needs" are and I disagreed. My reply wasn't about an affairs being "need" driven but that I don't believe the things I described should be called "wants" when they appear to be vital in most healthy marriages.

 

I recognize the topic of the thread. I said (and now repeat) that no, my needs were not being met. But considering that we're in the infidelity section and this justification of "needs not being met" is so ridiculously prevalent, I think my post was perfectly on- topic.

 

I also fundamentally disagree with your assertion that these justifications are "needs" at all. I mean you no offense; I just disagree. I could make you a full list of my "needs" that weren't met but I both survived and managed not to engage in infidelity. Apparently they weren't "needs" at all.

 

I think Zen's comments are quite relevant. My expectations were different from that of my wife. I was mentally prepared for the early years of our children's development to not be all about us (and so some of my "needs" would be on the backburner). There are competing priorities in life and that's certainly true when you have kids. We put ourselves in that position. My wife's expectations were apparently quite different; I would submit that nothing was ever quite enough for my wife and so I am particularly bothered when having everything is suddenly a "need." Mularky.

[yellowmaverick]

 

You didn't "need" a second set of genitals to play with.

 

Well, I do NOW. My first one got herpes from his other "toy".

[Fluttershy]

I am unsure of where I "justified" anything. Fml, i am obviously not cut out for online forums as I seem to constantly have things put in that I didnt say or didn't even mean the way they were interpretad.

[goodyblue]

Absolutely, there's a distinction between "wants and needs" and it's ironic how some folks think it's the same thing.

 

Yeah....it's remarkable how often the overbenefitted spouse ends up being the one to cheat.

 

Overbenefitted. I guess that's relative, isn't it? You may think the one who cheated was overbenefitted, when in their mind they went without the things that mattered most.

[BetrayedH]

Overbenefitted. I guess that's relative, isn't it? You may think the one who cheated was overbenefitted, when in their mind they went without the things that mattered most.

 

Some people can have it all and not appreciate what they have. And so they lie, cheat, and deceive to get more.

[peruano99]

I can't say much for BS...but For some cheaters, their needs are not being met, they have problems, or just don't have a connection; BUT there are others who just have affairs for the fun of it even if their needs are met.

[BeingMe]

But that is just blameshifting. If a WS needs are not being met, they could talk about it, go to MC, end the marriage, but instead, because of a deep flaw within themselves, they CHOSE to have an affair. Unmet needs did not drive them to it.

[Fluttershy]

But that is just blameshifting. If a WS needs are not being met, they could talk about it, go to MC, end the marriage, but instead, because of a deep flaw within themselves, they CHOSE to have an affair. Unmet needs did not drive them to it.

 

Is it or is that the hypersensitivity of a BS speaking?

 

In most cases here it seems that the WS is the complete one at fault for everything from the A to any precieved marital problems.

 

But let's say a BS withholds sex and anything sexual. Let's say x amount of time passes with no real change. Let's say the WS does what they can but the BS still doesn't get with it. They have children and lots of other things are great but the WS grows tired of satisfying their own sexual needs. They crave the physical touch. Then along comes AP who they form a friendship with. Overtime lines start being crossed. It becomes physical. Let's say in this case the WS is someone who has always had high morals. It starts to eat at them. They get caught and of course the sht hits the fan. Let's say they realize that instead of what they should have done (the 180) they basically made a difficult situation almost irraparable. They let someone else's (the BS) selfish behaviour cause them to do something wrong. They own that they f'd up badly. This wasn't somethin that happened overnight.

 

But where does this leave them? They can't actually be honest about where their mind was at pre-affair and why they were more than likely more susceptible to an affair. Honestly, if this were the case I would advise the WS to not reconcile. Not leave for AP but be single fo awhile because they basically gave up their chance (if their was one) to put their foot down. By having the affair they made the marriage all about the BS and the BS needs. The BS gets to call all the shots and the BS gets to decide what can and cannot be discussed. So if the affair was born out of a troubled marriage... Then in most cases that marriage likely won't survive with the concept of any even mentioning of something lacking in the marriage preaffair is blameshifting.

 

If I go cheat on my husband and then say "I did it because he cheated first" would I be blameshifting or just speaking the truth? Obviously his affair didn't force me to spread my legs. Obviously I used poor coping skils and had my own issues to deal with. But the fact still remains... My RA wouldn't have happened without his A.

 

So in the cliche no sex example the fact remains their is a very good chance the A wouldn't have happened if the BS hadn't ignored their WS sexually for so long.

 

Now this is where I see the hypersensitivity on here. People will say that is just jusification and blameshifting. I don't see it that way. Justification means the WS did somethig "just". Nope they screwed up big time when their were better (but not so tempting) options. Blameshifting? Nope, they still are 100% to blame for the affair. It was their choice alone. No sex may just have put the option on the table when before they would never have even thought of it. But the affair was just one, don't get caught and rock the boat, option. And now if they truly want to repair the damage they did to themselves and others, they need to dig deep inside and work on why the chose that pill.

 

In the case of an insatiable person who is just insatiable and so stepped out because they craved "something more than their spouse could give" yeah that one is 100% blameshifting i they make up imaginary problems or blow tiny problems up into unclimable mountains. And rewrite history.

 

It seems to me most BS on here have spouse's in the last. Or at least how they tell it they did.

[BeingMe]

No.

 

Most BS, incl me,take responsibility for 50% of the marriage problems BEFORE the affair.

 

The choice to have an affair is all on the WS.

 

During the affair and in the run-up (the yearning/flirting stage),even before DDay, the marriage becomes much worse due to the secrecy,lies, blocked communication, emotional distance and lack of emotional intimacy from the WS. As DDay approaches, the BS becomes (rightly) suspicious and that makes things even worse.

 

But the state of the marriage before an affair does not drive a WS to have an affair. They have an affair because they want to and choose to rather than choose to end their marriage with integrity,first,and then go on to a new relationship.

Edited January 12, 2014 by BeingMe

[Zenstudent]

Zen, I never even read your post, i was replying to BH and them got called away before posting. So yes I overlooked it... Entirely. In fact when I read this post I felt slightly attacked for no reason.

I'm sorry you felt that way, I wasn't trying to attack you at all, It's not what I'm here for, and it's not who I am (or aim to be). I believe that a persons actions reflect on themselves and tell us something about their character, so I don't hope that my posts come across as hostile. Then I would have to blame you for writing the most that made me attack you....

Well, I just seem to disagree with some of your premises and conclusions.

 

I actually like the following quoted post of yours because it made me reflect and think.

 

Is it or is that the hypersensitivity of a BS speaking?

 

In most cases here it seems that the WS is the complete one at fault for everything from the A to any precieved marital problems.

 

But let's say a BS withholds sex and anything sexual. Let's say x amount of time passes with no real change. Let's say the WS does what they can but the BS still doesn't get with it. They have children and lots of other things are great but the WS grows tired of satisfying their own sexual needs. They crave the physical touch. Then along comes AP who they form a friendship with. Overtime lines start being crossed. It becomes physical. Let's say in this case the WS is someone who has always had high morals. It starts to eat at them. They get caught and of course the sht hits the fan. Let's say they realize that instead of what they should have done (the 180) they basically made a difficult situation almost irraparable. They let someone else's (the BS) selfish behaviour cause them to do something wrong. They own that they f'd up badly. This wasn't somethin that happened overnight.

 

But where does this leave them? They can't actually be honest about where their mind was at pre-affair and why they were more than likely more susceptible to an affair. Honestly, if this were the case I would advise the WS to not reconcile. Not leave for AP but be single fo awhile because they basically gave up their chance (if their was one) to put their foot down. By having the affair they made the marriage all about the BS and the BS needs. The BS gets to call all the shots and the BS gets to decide what can and cannot be discussed. So if the affair was born out of a troubled marriage... Then in most cases that marriage likely won't survive with the concept of any even mentioning of something lacking in the marriage preaffair is blameshifting.

 

If I go cheat on my husband and then say "I did it because he cheated first" would I be blameshifting or just speaking the truth? Obviously his affair didn't force me to spread my legs. Obviously I used poor coping skils and had my own issues to deal with. But the fact still remains... My RA wouldn't have happened without his A.

 

So in the cliche no sex example the fact remains their is a very good chance the A wouldn't have happened if the BS hadn't ignored their WS sexually for so long.

 

Now this is where I see the hypersensitivity on here. People will say that is just jusification and blameshifting. I don't see it that way. Justification means the WS did somethig "just". Nope they screwed up big time when their were better (but not so tempting) options. Blameshifting? Nope, they still are 100% to blame for the affair. It was their choice alone. No sex may just have put the option on the table when before they would never have even thought of it. But the affair was just one, don't get caught and rock the boat, option. And now if they truly want to repair the damage they did to themselves and others, they need to dig deep inside and work on why the chose that pill.

 

In the case of an insatiable person who is just insatiable and so stepped out because they craved "something more than their spouse could give" yeah that one is 100% blameshifting i they make up imaginary problems or blow tiny problems up into unclimable mountains. And rewrite history.

 

It seems to me most BS on here have spouse's in the last. Or at least how they tell it they did.

I find it interesting that you mention the RA, because I've thought a lot about that option from time to time. Does this mean that my wife brougt this option on the table, or that her affair did? No, I did. And I do. Will I act on it? No, because I don't believe in this tit-for-tat game. The thought was born only because her affair and the aftermath made me realize just how little she values our relationship and the promises we made. Her actions speak to me.

 

According to your logic; I needed a safe relationship, someone safe to help me guard my family's home base, some safety to build my future on. My needs were and obviously still are not met - how can I feel safe in a situation like this? I can't, but does it make an RA OK? No, IMO it doesn't, and it doesn't provide me with safety either. It would just tell myself as well as other people, that I'm not the person everyone thought I was. My actions reflect who I am.

 

In you sexless mariage example; did you consider that the withholding of sex could be caused by her partners lack of hygiene? And that the lack of hygiene could be caused by.... etc. etc. Where does it end? If no one takes responsibility for their own actions, nothing will change for the better.

 

I'm not sensitive in a way that prevents me from seeing my own shortcomings and faults, I just get a little annoyed when someone suggets that unless I'm perfect, fullfilling each and every perceived want and need, I can't expect my partner to be honest with me.

[BetrayedH]

They let someone else's (the BS) selfish behaviour cause them to do something wrong.

 

The BS doesn't cause the WS to do anything. An affair happens because the wayward chooses to have an affair. It's that simple.

 

Even in your "no sex" example, I was the one denied sex for a 7-year stretch beginning at almost the instant my wife became pregnant with our first child. It was like a switch was flipped that she immediately transitioned from a wife to a mother. I tried everything under the sun to remedy this marital problem to no avail. But somehow, her selfishness didn't "cause" me to have an affair. Ironically, she was the one to have an affair. Hmm. Perhaps that means that there is no external causation but that it's actually something within each individual that bears itself out.

 

Comically, this is pretty much the point of this whole thread. My situation isn't rare. In many cases, it's the BSs "needs" that weren't being met but the WS is the one that uses this excuse to justify their affair.

 

And truly, if my behaviors "caused" her affair, apparently it must have been justified for her to undertake an affair. How can it be her fault if I caused it, right?

 

The fact is that the BS and marital problems (which are present in any marriage I've ever seen) don't cause a wayward to do anything. That choice was made solely within the wayward.

 

I also disagree with your assertion that BSs don't take responsibility for marital problems. Even as bitter as I may be, I will own my half of the responsibility for every improvement we could have made and didn't. But frankly, NONE of that is relevant when it comes to her choice to cheat. She gets to own that exclusively; I didn't get a vote. In fact, I was lied to extensively to make sure I didn't.

[yellowmaverick]

I'm sorry you felt that way, I wasn't trying to attack you at all, It's not what I'm here for, and it's not who I am (or aim to be). I believe that a persons actions reflect on themselves and tell us something about their character, so I don't hope that my posts come across as hostile. Then I would have to blame you for writing the most that made me attack you....

Well, I just seem to disagree with some of your premises and conclusions.

 

I actually like the following quoted post of yours because it made me reflect and think.

 

 

I find it interesting that you mention the RA, because I've thought a lot about that option from time to time. Does this mean that my wife brougt this option on the table, or that her affair did? No, I did. And I do. Will I act on it? No, because I don't believe in this tit-for-tat game. The thought was born only because her affair and the aftermath made me realize just how little she values our relationship and the promises we made. Her actions speak to me.

 

According to your logic; I needed a safe relationship, someone safe to help me guard my family's home base, some safety to build my future on. My needs were and obviously still are not met - how can I feel safe in a situation like this? I can't, but does it make an RA OK? No, IMO it doesn't, and it doesn't provide me with safety either. It would just tell myself as well as other people, that I'm not the person everyone thought I was. My actions reflect who I am.

 

In you sexless mariage example; did you consider that the withholding of sex could be caused by her partners lack of hygiene? And that the lack of hygiene could be caused by.... etc. etc. Where does it end? If no one takes responsibility for their own actions, nothing will change for the better.

 

I'm not sensitive in a way that prevents me from seeing my own shortcomings and faults, I just get a little annoyed when someone suggets that unless I'm perfect, fullfilling each and every perceived want and need, I can't expect my partner to be honest with me.

 

 

BINGO!!!

 

EVERYONE has a "reason" for their actions - the spouse who doesn't desire sex because the other is unclean or she is simply too tired at the end of a 20-hour day of managing a job, a house, laundry, dinner, homework, bills (and, yes, it is VERY common to find this level of imbalance in a marriage). The ironic thing to me is that, based on the posts of cheaters and certain books/blogs, my H gave me every "reason" for me to cheat on him. Everyone who knows us, including our children and H's own mother, would agree that he was the selfish one in our marriage. He had given me all the "reason" in the world to cheat, but I didn't......because I know that there really is no reason. I know that choosing to be an adulterer says much more about the cheater's lack of character and integrity than it does the BS.

[goodyblue]

Some people can have it all and not appreciate what they have. And so they lie, cheat, and deceive to get more.

 

Wow. Sounds like you are talking about a sociopath. If someone has 'it all', they wouldn't want more, would they, as there would be nothing more. Whatever. If they 'felt' they were missing something, that is what matters, isn't it? God. All these excuses. And then you (generally on this thread) say you weren't getting what you needed. Well, then you can understand neither was your partner. I guess this gives you the moral high ground, that you were martyrs and just 'lived with not getting what you needed'. It doesn't make you martyr's I won't even say what it makes you. Our lives on this planet are so brief. Be happy. If you are not, don't stay in the relationship that makes you unhappy.

[BetrayedH]

Wow. Sounds like you are talking about a sociopath. If someone has 'it all', they wouldn't want more, would they, as there would be nothing more. Whatever. If they 'felt' they were missing something, that is what matters, isn't it? God. All these excuses. And then you (generally on this thread) say you weren't getting what you needed. Well, then you can understand neither was your partner. I guess this gives you the moral high ground, that you were martyrs and just 'lived with not getting what you needed'. It doesn't make you martyr's I won't even say what it makes you. Our lives on this planet are so brief. Be happy. If you are not, don't stay in the relationship that makes you unhappy.

 

Not sure where you're seeing excuses. Am I making excuses for not taking responsibility for my wife's affair? I don't take responsibility for that decision and never implied it makes me a martyr. I am far from one.

 

I lived with not getting everything I wanted because I had commitments - to my marriage, my children, my job, etc.. I was prepared to not have it all. I won't just leave those commitments because I am momentarily unhappy. That's childish.

 

As for what you would call me, please feel free to go ahead; I have no fear of a debate with you. Although, it gives me no pleasure to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

[Furious]

Odd, how if a WS whines about their unmet needs the affair partner buys it hook line and sinker, but if a Betrayed spouse also had unmet needs and expresses it they're labeled as hypersensitive or playing the martyr.:

[yellowmaverick]

[quote=BetrayedH;5460704

 

As for what you would call me, please feel free to go ahead; I have no fear of a debate with you. Although, it gives me no pleasure to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

 

LMAO :laugh:

 

I love a man with real cajones!!!! :love:

[BetrayedH]

LMAO :laugh:

 

I love a man with real cajones!!!! :love:

 

As a unremorseful OW, I actually think it takes real balls for goodyblue/sohappytogether to come onto an infidelity thread for BSs to discuss their unmet needs and assume that she can speak to what happened in my (or our) marriage(s). My "needs" weren't met (which makes me think they weren't really needs after all) and I accepted that life isn't always perfect. Otherwise, I was pretty happy with my life and marriage; I looked forward to better times when life wasn't so hectic. I felt awful when I found out about my wife's affair because I hated the thought that she would be so unhappy that she'd feel the need to do such a thing. But as time passes and you take a closer look at things, you realize that some people just have unrealistic expectations of life and have to have it all. We didn't have a bad life or a bad marriage. The absence of problems in our marriage was actually what made me look into the possibility of an affair. Out of the blue, she said she wanted to separate. I beat myself up something awful but slowly realized that there must be something else causing this as we hardly ever even argued. The absence of marital problems is what caused me to investigate and low and behold, there just happened to be something else that caused her to rewrite our marital history.

[jnel921]

I am a BS, 14 months since D-Day and currently in R with my H. Before D-Day I have to say some of my needs were not being met. However my H never made me believe that he didn't love me. Which was the surprise for me when I discovered his betrayal.

 

I tried for many years to resolve many of our issues. Communication and intimacy being the biggest ones. Because of our work schedules and kids it made it almost impossible.

 

There was one clear point in time which was near the time of the A that I would call him at work and seemed angry or annoyed, as if I were interrupting him. He'd be nasty and scream at me in front of the other guys. He'd ask me why was I calling him to ask stupid questions that I should already know the answer to. Just a real jerk! This made the red flags go up. I felt something was up but I wasn't sure what. I brushed it off as stress from the job. He'd come home and slip into bed and would always hold me and kiss me. So I never suspected anything.

 

When I did the analysis of our cell phone bills is when I discovered he was chatting it up with another woman. When confronted I was told a lie about what it was really about and what was worst was that it was with his good friend's GF whom he lied to as well. 2 months later the OW called and told me the truth and was not nice about it all. Her agenda was to hurt me.

 

At that point not only was I broken and betrayed but was extremely hurt that those needs I fought with my H over the years was being given to another woman so easily without a fight. He said and did things he never attempted with me. Who the hell was I married to? I didn't deserve that. He didn't deserve me. When I confronted him with the truth , he cried like a baby. He kept telling me how sorry he was. I wanted to leave and was ready to walk but my H begged me to stay telling me how sorry he was and how he didn't care about the OW. He kept telling me he loved me. I still struggle with that until this very day. I am not sure how you can love and hurt the one you say you love like that. I still wonder where was that love, where was the thought of your wife and kids when you laid down with that witch? That's not love. He says it was lust. I have a hard time dealing with that. Where was the desire for your wife? Did I not discuss that until I was blue in the face and often walked away in tears?

 

It was a short-lived A, but it has done unbelievably long term damage to our M.

 

Right now my H is in fix-it mode. He is doing a great. I am doing my part as well. It is not easy as I have my days and there are times we randomly mention things and shed tears now and then.

 

I can honestly say that if I would have held my ground and left him I would have felt that I exhausted every resource to try and resolve our issues and improve our M to get our mutual needs met. He was blinded by a piece of a$$ unfortunately.

 

His remorsefulness is what convinced me to stay. If he wasn't or stayed in contact with that witch I wouldn't have stayed. Leaving is still an option as I don't feel 100% within our marriage. But I am hoping we get there.

 

R is a gamble and all you can do is hope that it works out in your favor. Situations are different for everyone. Circumstances and reactions dictate that.

Edited January 12, 2014 by jnel921

[waterwoman]

Wow. Sounds like you are talking about a sociopath. If someone has 'it all', they wouldn't want more, would they, as there would be nothing more. Whatever. If they 'felt' they were missing something, that is what matters, isn't it? God. All these excuses. And then you (generally on this thread) say you weren't getting what you needed. Well, then you can understand neither was your partner. I guess this gives you the moral high ground, that you were martyrs and just 'lived with not getting what you needed'. It doesn't make you martyr's I won't even say what it makes you. Our lives on this planet are so brief. Be happy. If you are not, don't stay in the relationship that makes you unhappy.

 

Goody, why are you so hostile to BS? Every post you make about them seems so angry.

[janedoe67]

I realized about a year and a half before my A that I could be doing a better job with home organization and giving him more admiration. I went all in. I admit that a selfish part of me also hoped if I was good enough he would want me and touch me. Nothing on his end changed. So yes, prior to my realization I was falling short in those ways.

 

Fluttershy, I appreciated what you were trying to say, but surely you have figured out by now that once someone cheats nothing else matters.

[Furious]

I realized about a year and a half before my A that I could be doing a better job with home organization and giving him more admiration. I went all in. I admit that a selfish part of me also hoped if I was good enough he would want me and touch me. Nothing on his end changed. So yes, prior to my realization I was falling short in those ways.

 

Fluttershy, I appreciated what you were trying to say, but surely you have figured out by now that once someone cheats nothing else matters.

 

 

Janedoe

 

I was looking for input by betrayed spouses but I welcome your point of view as a former WS. Having read your threads I have always found you to be fair minded and I sympathized with your situation.

 

No one is this thread said or implied that once someone cheats nothing else matters. This thread asks the question to betrayed spouses if their own needs were being met. This is a legitimate question and those betrayed spouses who responded have a right to express whether their needs were or were not being met.

[janedoe67]

Part of why I posted was to affirm that yes, it is very very often true that a BS's needs were not all being met, as I stated that my own BH had some needs that I definitely needed to work on meeting lots better. I have no doubt that most of the time the BS has unmet needs, and they CERTAINLY likely have un met needs once the WS gets all into their A. I have no doubt that a BS is probably very well aware of their own unmet needs.

 

It is doubtful that any BS can be sure whether or not another WS (even their own) is lying or not about having unmet needs. I would not pretend to be able to read someone else mind or know all the ins and outs of someone else's marriage.

 

Regardless, however, an A is ALWAYS wrong. And no matter how "unmet," unmet needs are NEVER a justifiable excuse to have one (or to participate in one WITH a WS)