BeholdtheMan Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Morality has nothing to do with getting laid Amen. A lot of dudes need to pull their heads outta their asses and realise women are not an incomprehensible aliens species. If you're not attracted to a woman, would her being "nice" somehow make you fall for her? No. Similarly, nice behaviour doesn't make women wet...neither does bad behaviour. Strong, confident masculine behaviour (which can be "nice" or "bad") is a turn on to women. 4
ponchsox Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 "You're a nice guy" is a code phrase for "you don't make my panties wet." 1
Revolver Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Amen. A lot of dudes need to pull their heads outta their asses and realise women are not an incomprehensible aliens species. If you're not attracted to a woman, would her being "nice" somehow make you fall for her? No. Similarly, nice behaviour doesn't make women wet...neither does bad behaviour. Strong, confident masculine behaviour (which can be "nice" or "bad") is a turn on to women. My problem is women like to argue against it, many times they'll specifically say "The reason guy A doesn't get girls is because he's a bad person" As if being a bad person has ever been a deterrent to attracting women. Look at all the drug dealers who sell poison to their communities who have women all over them. Look at all the men who physically,verbally, and emotionally abuse women who can get laid easily. I mean look at Chris brown, dude literally beat a woman ass, I don't see that stopping him from being successful. Heck for a while there he was still sleeping with the girl he beat up Edited January 10, 2014 by Revolver 2
GoodOnPaper Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Niceness is an ambiguous trait that is not necessarily a prerequisite to attraction. A lot of guys don't understand this until they've endured many an embarrassing scenario. Being nice shouldn't be your defining trait - it's a given. People expect you to be somewhat nice. But you have to have other traits that are as prominent as your "niceness". Things that set you apart, things that people will be attracted to you for, however they are manifested. The thing is, even if a lot of players and "bad boys" are not naturally courteous and respectful, they can fake it as needed to attract women of their interest.
Author BlametheIrish Posted January 10, 2014 Author Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Heres a not funny but quits interesting article that goes,a biyvin depth about the "nice guy" persona. Shakesville: Explainer: What is a "Nice Guy®?" I think many self proclaimed ""nice guys" are described in this article. It actually analyzes a,post from a "nice guy" which is very similar to.some of the "nice guy" posts on this site. Good read Edited January 10, 2014 by BlametheIrish
Philosoraptor Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Gave me a good laugh. People ruin all sympathy for themselves once they start classifying the masses. "X doesn't like Y". It just screams of manipulation. "Women don't like nice guys" "Men don't like good girls" "Horses don't like Captain Crunch" The only way to deal with things is to take them internally. "She doesn't like me"... too bad. 1
Mrlonelyone Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 My problem is women like to argue against it, many times they'll specifically say "The reason guy A doesn't get girls is because he's a bad person" As if being a bad person has ever been a deterrent to attracting women. Look at all the drug dealers who sell poison to their communities who have women all over them. Look at all the men who physically,verbally, and emotionally abuse women who can get laid easily. I mean look at Chris brown, dude literally beat a woman ass, I don't see that stopping him from being successful. Heck for a while there he was still sleeping with the girl he beat up EXACTLY. My favorite example is Juron VanDerSloot. Talk about a bad boy with a extreme dark-triad personality. He's probably a clinical level narcissist and user. He's been convicted of killing one woman, is accused of killing another. So he's a horror movie level psychopath. Yet while in prison in South America he got married last June. Wedding Bells For Natalie Holloway Suspect Joran Van der Sloot - The Daily Beast Looking at the bride she's not the prettiest pig at the county fair...but he's in freaking prison for murder and he now has a wife. She now has a husband who would've never looked at her twice outside of prison. Somehow we are supposed to believe that he's on some level a truly nice person who treats women well. Meanwhile the non-murderers that the woman could've had are really not nice but only pretending to be nice. OK. Here's my theory. Juron can do what he does because he looks good, works out, and has no scruples about using and hurting women. Meanwhile ALL not some science says all women see a hot stud and think / feel this. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/head-games/201205/why-do-the-wrong-men-feel-so-right-ovulation-can-lead-distorted-thinking Ovulation leads women to perceive sexy ca... [J Pers Soc Psychol. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI Ovulating women perceive that sexy cads would be good fathers to their own children but not to the children of other women. This ovulatory-induced perceptual shift is driven by women who experienced early onset of puberty. Taken together, the current research identifies a novel proximate reason why ovulating women pursue relationships with sexy cads, complementing existing research that identifies the ultimate, evolutionary reasons for this behavior. I know I must sound like a broken record. Science has confirmed everything the PUA's say and the "nice guys" say, and the "bad boys" say. Some could call a man who lacks empathy (doesn't cry), is a bit manipulative, and has almost unreasonable confidence (a touch of narcissism) is exactly the ideal we are told women want. Gave me a good laugh. People ruin all sympathy for themselves once they start classifying the masses. "X doesn't like Y". It just screams of manipulation. "Women don't like nice guys" "Men don't like good girls" "Horses don't like Captain Crunch" The only way to deal with things is to take them internally. "She doesn't like me"... too bad. So you hate all psychologist?
Philosoraptor Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 So you hate all psychologist? Where did I use the word hate, dislike, or anything of the such? I said people ruin any sympathy they may garner as soon as they start classifying the masses based on their personal sample. In this case once someone has asked out every woman on the planet and got rejected for being a "nice guy" I will start to believe the hype that women don't like nice guys. Until then it's simply the sample of women you have approached do not find themselves attracted to you for one reason or another. Until one can internalize the issue instead of blaming someone else they will continue to repeat the same results. If one would take the time to analyze themselves rather than blameshifting they might be able to correct their failure. "Women don't like nice guys" suddenly becomes "maybe I am acting a little desperate and pitiful", "I do go into things with expectations for other people... and that's unfair to them", "I am reading too much into things and allowing my personal emotions to obstruct a logical view of the situation", "my attitude is a little off-putting", etc.
GoodOnPaper Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Heres a not funny but quits interesting article that goes,a biyvin depth about the "nice guy" persona. Shakesville: Explainer: What is a "Nice Guy®?" I think many self proclaimed ""nice guys" are described in this article. It actually analyzes a,post from a "nice guy" which is very similar to.some of the "nice guy" posts on this site. Good read I can give you a direct "nice guy" perspective on this article about "nice guys": Much of what he rants on about is simply a description of the typical attraction/dating learning curve that less-than-successful young guys go through. Guys really don't get any slack -- we are expected to jump into the dating world knowing exactly what we're doing but it's OK for girls to all go through their "bad boy" phases early on. The doormat issue is easily figured out with a couple of mini-relationships. The friendzone thing is a little trickier. I went through a crushing experience of that nature when I was 16 and eventually figured out that I just had to ask a girl out, no matter how nervous I felt, if that's what I wanted. It wasn't until much, much later that I realized that many women compartmentalize friendship and romantic feelings (which seems unnatural to me) just like many guys can compartmentalize sex and love (which seems unnatural to a lot of women, I think). One thing that really tripped me up when I was young was the "let's just be friends" request. I took that too seriously -- which paralyzed me because it didn't seem that we had a foundation for a real friendship -- and didn't realize that that really meant "let's just be friendly". I think the deep-down core issue for a guy who is troubled by his own "nice guy" issues -- and LS will attract quite a number of such guys -- is that life seems unbearably EMPTY without a deep, intimate relationship of some sort. Being able to attract women on a regular basis seems to be the ticket out of this, but the less success we have the more pressure we put on ourselves and a downward spiral starts. Guys who are young and feel that they are on this spiral are in a tough spot -- no money, probably working on their education, maybe just starting out in the work force. At that time of life, things revolve around how good you are socially at bars and parties and it's just plain depressing when that's not a natural environment for you. One of the toughest things for a young "nice guy" is to have patience with himself, but I think that is exactly what's needed -- and that's what I would go back and tell my early-20-something self if I could. Eventually, life starts to revolve around other things than your social scene, you have a little more money coming in and you can travel and cultivate some hobbies and interests that are satisfying. It's easier to make your life full -- that's what will put dating and relationships in perspective.
GoreSP Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 I think it's important to make a difference between the genuine nice guys and what I like to call the good bad guys... Nothing wrong with being the genuine kind of nice guy... 1
Mrlonelyone Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Where did I use the word hate, dislike, or anything of the such? Gave me a good laugh. People ruin all sympathy for themselves once they start classifying the masses. "X doesn't like Y". It just screams of manipulation. That sounds like a hateful thing to me. I guess I misunderstood. You mean you have no empathy for people who classify. I said people ruin any sympathy they may garner as soon as they start classifying the masses based on their personal sample. You did not say anything about a "personal sample" in the quote. You just said people who classify the masses. Psychologist classify the masses by taking a random and representative sample. Some of them are rather large samples. They administer test designed to get people to reveal their true feelings and biases. They observe actual behavior and not what people say they would do. They reach conclusions and publish them in peer reviewed sources. In this case once someone has asked out every woman on the planet and got rejected for being a "nice guy" I will start to believe the hype that women don't like nice guys. Peer revised scientific research I have cited again and again says this is true. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/head-games/201205/why-do-the-wrong-men-feel-so-right-ovulation-can-lead-distorted-thinking Why Women Choose Bad Boys | LiveScience Journal reference. Durante, K. M., Griskevicius, V., Simpson, J. A., Cantu, S M., & Li, N. P. (in press). Ovulation leads women to perceive sexy cads as good dads. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081112074436.htm I could fill a whole page full of these journal references. I ask you to present a source that contradicts the above showing women like to date "dads" ('nice guys') even when at peak fertility and I will say you are right. Right now I have academic sources that have effectively asked every kind of woman in the world. Oh and likewise men can tell that women are ovulating and take a greater interest in them when they do. http://www.examiner.com/article/psst-ladies-men-can-tell-when-you-are-ovulating Edited January 10, 2014 by Mrlonelyone
Author BlametheIrish Posted January 10, 2014 Author Posted January 10, 2014 The only way to deal with things is to take them internally. "She doesn't like me"... too bad. Thats exactly right but so many self proclaimed "nice guys" would rather say she hates me because I'm nice. Or she must only like *******s if she wont date me. Instead of just thinking "Well she's not interested, but luckily there's no.shortage of women in the world :)" Its almost like a child having a tantrum. "I want her I.want het I want her!!!!! Wait she doesnt want me??? What an ungrateful c****, I helped her do this and that and hard times and blah blah blah but she doesn't want me, I hate women, they're all useless sluts, booo hooo hoo no one wants a nice guy anymore." I've heard this crap enough that it's sickening. I've been dating a nice guy for 10 months now. He's quite nice and chivalrous and kind hearted. All things I highly.value. He's not needy, posessive, whiny and he has no sense of entitlement like many "nice guys" Being nice isn't his defining trait its just one of many that attracted me to him.
Philosoraptor Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Mrlonelyone, all those sources prove that that some women are attracted or unattracted to certain types. That's their personal choice but does not indicate that every woman will agree or feel the same way. Every "kind of woman" does not equal every woman. I'm personally see myself as an honorable guy. One who has the qualities that "nice guys" like to wear as a badge of honor, but accepting that all people have personal choice and that one persons' choice is not an indicator of what someone else will choose. If someone doesn't like me for who I am then too bad. The next woman that I'm interested in just might. I never had an issue attracting women and I've never been a "bad boy". People spouting "women don't like nice guys" is simply a way to avoid personal introspection. I could have spouted the same thing but what would it have gained me? "She didn't like me" was what I went with. Just like I turned down a lot of women, I got turned down as well. It was never the end of the world or an indicator of what all 3.5+ billion women on this planet would feel. 1
GoodOnPaper Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Thats exactly right but so many self proclaimed "nice guys" would rather say she hates me because I'm nice. Or she must only like *******s if she wont date me. Instead of just thinking "Well she's not interested, but luckily there's no.shortage of women in the world :)" Its almost like a child having a tantrum. "I want her I.want het I want her!!!!! Wait she doesnt want me??? What an ungrateful c****, I helped her do this and that and hard times and blah blah blah but she doesn't want me, I hate women, they're all useless sluts, booo hooo hoo no one wants a nice guy anymore." I've heard this crap enough that it's sickening. A lot hatred for guys that you don't have to have anything to do with . . . trust me, no one is harder on "nice guys" than we are on ourselves.
Eau Claire Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Mrlonelyone There is nothing more juvenile than when a poster gives some example of a bad boy celebrity as representing some example of society as a whole.. Are some men really this out of touch? They see models on TV swoon over some actor, rock star and 'assume' that this is what the girl next door is attracted to? No wonder they get frustrated in the real world with real women.
Author BlametheIrish Posted January 10, 2014 Author Posted January 10, 2014 UrA lot hatred for guys that you don't have to have anything to do with . . . trust me, no one is harder on "nice guys" than we are on ourselves. Read the post above yours and try to.reflect on it. I dont think you get the nice guys vs "nice guys" thing going on here. I have no hatred for anyone, just an opinion like everyone else.
Aquanut Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 No girl dislikes you because you're nice. That's absurd. They dislike you because you're boring, or clingy, or whiny, or whatever. I'm a nice guy and I have no doubt I could go out and get some strange tonight. But I won't because I'm a nice guy and I'm loyal to my fiancée. 2
Keenly Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 I think it's important to make a difference between the genuine nice guys and what I like to call the good bad guys... Nothing wrong with being the genuine kind of nice guy... A real nice guy wouldn't ever refer to himself as a nice guy. If some one tried to call me that is just respond with " you don't know me very well then "
ThaWholigan Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 The thing is, even if a lot of players and "bad boys" are not naturally courteous and respectful, they can fake it as needed to attract women of their interest. That's not the point - they can fake it, sure. But its not their defining attribute that they use as a selling point to whoever they want to date. Understand that "bad boys" are gonna keep getting laid whether they are nice or not because they have traits that at least attract someone to supplement them. If the only thing a nice guy is is "nice" and a few other stock traits that are simply neutral, then he'll never inspire friction or tension required to intrigue a woman.
Mrlonelyone Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 @ Philosoraptor Your argument is a logical fallacy. Because a random sample can't cover every single woman on earth it's conclusions are therefore not generalize able. By that logic no scientific inquiry it valid.
Philosoraptor Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 @ Philosoraptor Your argument is a logical fallacy. Because a random sample can't cover every single woman on earth it's conclusions are therefore not generalize able. By that logic no scientific inquiry it valid. Well one can generalize anything but it doesn't make it true. You can say many people, but can't spew it as a fact across the board. "Living humans have organs" is a fact. "Women don't like nice guys" is a generalization. "Some women don't like 'nice guys' " is a fact. As a sample can prove this. The above isn't important though. Some women don't like you, some women do. The desire to generalize yourself as a nice guy and generalize women as not liking nice guy is just a way to protect yourself from the facts: She didn't like you. Again, too bad. 3
polynomial Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) men who brand themselves as nice guys are usually never actually nice. it's so bizarre to me that they can't see that themselves. Edited January 10, 2014 by polynomial 7
hotpotato Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 No girl dislikes you because you're nice. That's absurd. They dislike you because you're boring, or clingy, or whiny, or whatever. I'm a nice guy and I have no doubt I could go out and get some strange tonight. But I won't because I'm a nice guy and I'm loyal to my fiancée. Exactly... I think think people are confusing nice with boring. So when a woman picks a guy who rides a Harley it must mean she likes bad boys. Never mind that he could be the nicest guy in the world who just happens to have an exciting hobby. If he's more attractive than the nice guy, he must be a bad boy. If he has an exciting hobby, he must be a bad boy. on and on... 3
Mrlonelyone Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Well one can generalize anything but it doesn't make it true. You can say many people, but can't spew it as a fact across the board. "Living humans have organs" is a fact. "Women don't like nice guys" is a generalization. "Some women don't like 'nice guys' " is a fact. As a sample can prove this. The above isn't important though. Some women don't like you, some women do. The desire to generalize yourself as a nice guy and generalize women as not liking nice guy is just a way to protect yourself from the facts: She didn't like you. Again, too bad. Philosoraptor. What I wrote weren't opinions I was quoting scientific research. Scientific research that has been replicated by experiments. That is as close to 100% true and 100% factual as any human knowledge gets.
hotpotato Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 men who brand themselves as nice guys are usually never actually nice. it's so bizarre to me that they can't see that themselves. Yes, they sound like,"Why didn't that gd b**** pick that jerking over me??? Or "I use women to make myself feel better, but girls reject me because I'm a nice guy." Most nice guys are passive aggressive and have a lot of anger boiling just beneath the surface. They are not nice out of kindness, but only to make a quid pro quo. The anger boils over if the subject does not dance to the nice guy's tune. I was nice to you, now let's have sex. I listened to all your problems, now date me b&*$#! 4
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