Wife vs. OW

January 10, 2014

How do you know I'm in a fog? Are you a psychologist? Have I explained to you in detail the depth of my love towards the OW?

I'm not ignoring the fact this happened to you, but let's not pretend that very real, deep loving relationships haven't started from affairs.

For what it's worth, both the OW and I had very powerful, unexplainable feelings towards each other well before the A started. The resulting affair was a manifestation of those feelings, not the reverse.

And we've tried NC on a few occasions, only to have our feelings grow stronger than ever before.

Hi Fullmona,

I know I don't know you from a bar of soap but even my AP and I would refer to this video. I always told her that life would have been completely different when there are bills to pay and children to beat (just kidding). That didn't stop me feeling the way I did, and in a small way do. Guess which two types of 'love' we were in? Those ones are guaranteed at this point in your relationship with the AP but the other one, the long lasting one? That's going to be quite the gamble.

Helen Fisher: Why we love, why we cheat | Video on TED.com

FWIW I'm totally in love with Helen Fisher's tone and cadence.

January 10, 2014

Ok, we are going to have to make it a requirement for wayward spouses to have to read about Affair fog, affair love and the wayward script/babble before posting here. It gets old reading about how all people in affairs are "soul mates", "kindred spirits" and how the stars and universe aligned for them to be together.

They should also read about how not to be selfish and not destroy all people around them.

You are destroying not only your family and 4yr old, but OMs home as well.

What can I say?

No there is nothing special about your affair or this OW. You are just overflowing with "love chemicals". Make sure everyone involved is aware of the A and once the betrayed spouses have made their decisions, you can follow whatever path is left.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you need to do some reading on affairs, marriage and love etc,etc.

This guy nails it,all this soul mate and kindred talk is cringe worthy. Lets be honest, you got some strange vagina after years of the same old and now you think you're in love and all that nonsense.

January 11, 2014

Ok, we are going to have to make it a requirement for wayward spouses to have to read about Affair fog, affair love and the wayward script/babble before posting here. It gets old reading about how all people in affairs are "soul mates", "kindred spirits" and how the stars and universe aligned for them to be together.

They should also read about how not to be selfish and not destroy all people around them.

You are destroying not only your family and 4yr old, but OMs home as well.

What can I say?

No there is nothing special about your affair or this OW. You are just overflowing with "love chemicals". Make sure everyone involved is aware of the A and once the betrayed spouses have made their decisions, you can follow whatever path is left.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you need to do some reading on affairs, marriage and love etc,etc.

Whenever any human being falls in love, that person is also "just" overflowing with "love chemicals." Chemicals are the most powerful thing in the world. Don't underestimate them. The OP is out of line, and wrong, but don't minimize the forces he's up against. Doing the right thing is often excruciating. Why do you think so many well-intentioned humans fail? It's a strong pull.

January 11, 2014

Whenever any human being falls in love, that person is also "just" overflowing with "love chemicals." Chemicals are the most powerful thing in the world. Don't underestimate them. The OP is out of line, and wrong, but don't minimize the forces he's up against. Doing the right thing is often excruciating. Why do you think so many well-intentioned humans fail? It's a strong pull.

Oh, I know. Believe me, I know......

January 11, 2014

About 5 months ago I met the OW (also married with young kids) through a working relationship. Our chemistry was instant. The way we look at each other, the transfer of energy, the way we finish each other's sentences. We acted like kindred souls without any effort and I was drawn to this woman with an intensity like I have never experienced.

You are very, very lucky. Don't pass up this chance. It sounds like you've met your Twin Flame! What do you think?

We’ve all heard about soulmates, a close connection between two people, but what are twin flames (aka twin souls) and what are the signs surrounding them?

Twin flames (unlike soulmates) come from an idea of there being another half of ourselves, without which we are incomplete. Writers have been thinking about this idea for thousands of years, right back to the Ancient Egyptians and the Greek philosopher Plato.

Plato and the New Testament of the Bible both discuss the idea that we were once whole but then got divided into two, and that we live our lives yearning and unhappy as we wish to be reunited with our other half. When we find this twin soul our lives are then complete and we spend blissful telepathic times with this special person.

“And when one of them meets with his other half, the actual half of himself, the pair are lost in an amazement of love and friendship and intimacy and one will not be out of the other’s sight even for a moment.”

It’s important that we don’t let these high ideals get in the way of finding happiness with a soulmate.

If we feel incomplete we should look to making ourselves feel whole, without another.

That said, for some lucky people meeting a twin flame is a reality, but how do you know the difference between twin flames and soulmates?

Well in fact there are a lot of similarities but here are the most common Top 10 Twin Flame signs that you can experience.

Twin Flame Signs

1. Instant Recognition

You meet eyes with your twin flame for the first time and feel that you recognise them in a deep way despite never having seen them before. Even their voice or laugh may sound familiar.

2. Love at First Sight

After meeting and perhaps from the outset you both feel a very powerful and strong bond that you have never felt before with anyone. This can be physical but also goes beyond that, a love to the very core of the other.

3. Unusual Meeting

Twin flames tend to report that they met under strange and unusual circumstances or coincidences, perhaps both doing something you would not normally do.

4. Separated yet together

Once together, the two of you become inseparable and when you are separated for any extended amount of time, you both feel lonely and empty, yet in another way you feel some kind of cord linking you telepathically or at least empathetically (where you are in tune with each other’s emotions.)

5. I know what you are thinking!

Twin flames will frequently find that they know what the other is thinking, even sometimes when far apart from each other. A look between you can communicate so much even though you don’t really know how it works.

6. Spiritual Awakening

This one of the more common twin flame signs. You begin to notice new things about yourself and the world around you, and think about life in a new more positive way.

7. A Divine Purpose?

Often twin souls find that together they have a strong desire to go and help other people in a meaningful way, usually as a team.

8. You can say anything to each other

Similar to soulmates, another of the twin flame signs is that you will find you can talk together for hours and houses, but particularly with twin flames there are no communication barriers between you and the relationship feels totally upfront and open. You feel as if the level of friendship and intimacy is unlike anything you have ever experienced.

9. Sexuality – ooh that’s hot!

Not only is your sex good and passionate (as it would hopefully be with a soulmate) but also you feel that that having sex with each other is a sacred, almost religious act that expresses the amazing love you feel for each other, in a way you never knew before.

10. Completeness (but not a clone!)

Finally more than ever before in your life, you feel a sense of completeness that goes beyond what you ever thought possible. You grow closer and closer, becoming more and more like a whole, yet still keep your individual identities.

If you are feeling many of these signs and symptoms then the chances are that you have met your twin flame, but I think you probably already knew that didn’t you, if you’ve felt all that!

January 11, 2014

One of the things that repelled me most in my situation was that the MM who was ready to abandon his loyal wife showed no remorse, regret, or guilt. OP, do you feel any responsibility, regret, shame, anything? Do you even know you're in the wrong? Is your OW OK with this?? Or do you not even care? Because the posts you mentioned that were useful to you were talking about possible fallbacks for YOU if you left for the OW. But I haven't heard you even mention any remorse at all. Honestly curious.

January 11, 2014

My wife has reacted with alot of hurt and has really looked inward rather than be angry. She has tried to reach out to me in new ways to develop the emotional chemistry that I received from the OW in an attempt to restore the marriage. After initially supporting my desire to end the marriage, she wants to continue to make the effort for the sake of our son. I admire her courage, I just question if it will be enough for me.

I decided to break things off with the OW a few days ago so we can both focus on giving our spouses one last chance to meet our needs in the marriage.

Cake!!! Ego Strokes!!! Yum Yum Yum!!!

January 11, 2014

We began to confide in each other about our marriages and our family life and things slowly crossed into emotional affair territory. We are both people of strong moral character

Indubitably.

January 11, 2014

Sorry, man. I know it's your life, but can you even believe some of the stuff you wrote? Imagine that about five years ago someone else wrote this stuff and you read it. What would you think about it?

January 11, 2014

According to empirical data, only 15-18% of cheaters end up in a relationship with their affair partner. Of that small percentage, only ~10% end up staying together 12 months later.

But I am sure the OP's love is as pure as morning snow and isn't like all those other broken post-affair relationships...

January 11, 2014

I guess my question is how do I know the the difference between the feelings of love one gets in an affair vs. the feelings of a lasting connection and bond?

You don't, not while you are in the affair.

If what you have already doesn't make you happy, and you're willing to throw it away to be with this other woman because you are "soul mates", go ahead.

Maybe you are.

Just know the odds are against you.

But, please stop screwing around with your wife's feelings. From your posts you've already made up your mind, and are just trying to lessen your guilt by pretending to give her another chance to meet your "needs".

January 11, 2014

Come on. End the charade and let your wife go and find real happiness with someone who can truly love and care for her, as you apparently do not. She's your wife, for heavens sake! She should never have been put in the position of having to compete for the love of her own husband. Prove herself, indeed.

January 11, 2014

What you are describing sounds more like limerance than love, and it also sounds as if you wouldn't recognize love if you saw it.

This is not meant as an insult to you, but rather that you are assigning a lot more meaning to such a short term relationship.

I know you feel like you are souls mates, fated to be together, but the truth is this is a woman you know very little about, and the things you do know should send up some pretty huge red flags about her. It also sounds like you are assigning way too much meaning to the things she says and does.

You have only known her for five months, and part of that was as just as workmates. Do you really feel that you can truly know a person in such a short period of time?

Again, I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I have been there myself ( not the A part though). About two days after we met, a guy I was dating said we should get married, and I said yes. After two years, we did, and have been M around 17 years now. I know what the "rush" of limerance is like, as I felt it with him and also with someone else I dated. I also know that when that dies down, you can be left with nothing of any substance.

With the other guy I felt that with. It was pretty bad. We planned out our future house, how many kids we would have and what their names would be, talked about vacations we'd take together, and a whole lot of other things too. We even planned out our wedding. We were so much"in love" and it seemed almost like we were the fabled soul mates. I can honestly say that after a while, it didn't see that way anymore. I found that for all the things we seemed to magically have in common, there were far more that we didn't . I didn't really know him, when that first rush was so strong, and the reality is there is no way I could. It's really impossible to know someone so fast,and looking back with age and wisdom, I wouldn't want to anyway. That eventually leads to boredom and unhappiness ( even after all this time,I am still finding out things about my husband and we still have fun together) .

What it comes right down to is you are basing some very serious life decisions on a relationship that hasn't even gotten off the ground, and you are dragging your w right along with you. Maybe you shouldn't be m to your w anymore. Maybe there is nothing there worth saving, but you are holding her back because you are love sick but also too afraid to make a decision. You are punishing your wife for your failures, and is that really the kind of man you want to be? Is that the life lesson you want to teach your child?

If you want my advice, tell the ow to go and get her own life sorted out before she even thinks of helping you to mess up yours. Give yourself time and space away from both the A and your M to figure out what you really want. This will also give your w space to find herself through all of this, and hopefully she'll stop clinging to you like a life raft and learn to stand up to you and tell you isn't going to put up with your cr@p treatment of her anymore.

You say that you no longer love your wife, and maybe that's true, I don't know. What I do know is that you are stringing her along and making her feels whole lot worse than you will ever know. If you have any kind feelings for her at all, sort yourself out and set her free. You may just find that you do love her, but wouldn't hold my breath expecting her to be waiting for you. There are probably a whole lot of men Who would give their eye teeth to have someone as loyal as she is.

January 11, 2014

You are very, very lucky. Don't pass up this chance. It sounds like you've met your Twin Flame! What do you think?

We’ve all heard about soulmates, a close connection between two people, but what are twin flames (aka twin souls) and what are the signs surrounding them?

Twin flames (unlike soulmates) come from an idea of there being another half of ourselves, without which we are incomplete. Writers have been thinking about this idea for thousands of years, right back to the Ancient Egyptians and the Greek philosopher Plato.

Plato and the New Testament of the Bible both discuss the idea that we were once whole but then got divided into two, and that we live our lives yearning and unhappy as we wish to be reunited with our other half. When we find this twin soul our lives are then complete and we spend blissful telepathic times with this special person.

“And when one of them meets with his other half, the actual half of himself, the pair are lost in an amazement of love and friendship and intimacy and one will not be out of the other’s sight even for a moment.”

It’s important that we don’t let these high ideals get in the way of finding happiness with a soulmate.

If we feel incomplete we should look to making ourselves feel whole, without another.

That said, for some lucky people meeting a twin flame is a reality, but how do you know the difference between twin flames and soulmates?

Well in fact there are a lot of similarities but here are the most common Top 10 Twin Flame signs that you can experience.

Twin Flame Signs

1. Instant Recognition

You meet eyes with your twin flame for the first time and feel that you recognise them in a deep way despite never having seen them before. Even their voice or laugh may sound familiar.

2. Love at First Sight

After meeting and perhaps from the outset you both feel a very powerful and strong bond that you have never felt before with anyone. This can be physical but also goes beyond that, a love to the very core of the other.

3. Unusual Meeting

Twin flames tend to report that they met under strange and unusual circumstances or coincidences, perhaps both doing something you would not normally do.

4. Separated yet together

Once together, the two of you become inseparable and when you are separated for any extended amount of time, you both feel lonely and empty, yet in another way you feel some kind of cord linking you telepathically or at least empathetically (where you are in tune with each other’s emotions.)

5. I know what you are thinking!

Twin flames will frequently find that they know what the other is thinking, even sometimes when far apart from each other. A look between you can communicate so much even though you don’t really know how it works.

6. Spiritual Awakening

This one of the more common twin flame signs. You begin to notice new things about yourself and the world around you, and think about life in a new more positive way.

7. A Divine Purpose?

Often twin souls find that together they have a strong desire to go and help other people in a meaningful way, usually as a team.

8. You can say anything to each other

Similar to soulmates, another of the twin flame signs is that you will find you can talk together for hours and houses, but particularly with twin flames there are no communication barriers between you and the relationship feels totally upfront and open. You feel as if the level of friendship and intimacy is unlike anything you have ever experienced.

9. Sexuality – ooh that’s hot!

Not only is your sex good and passionate (as it would hopefully be with a soulmate) but also you feel that that having sex with each other is a sacred, almost religious act that expresses the amazing love you feel for each other, in a way you never knew before.

10. Completeness (but not a clone!)

Finally more than ever before in your life, you feel a sense of completeness that goes beyond what you ever thought possible. You grow closer and closer, becoming more and more like a whole, yet still keep your individual identities.

If you are feeling many of these signs and symptoms then the chances are that you have met your twin flame, but I think you probably already knew that didn’t you, if you’ve felt all that!

Wow! I believe in this totally. This is exactly my definition of a "soul mate." Thanks for posting.

January 11, 2014

Wow! I believe in this totally. This is exactly my definition of a "soul mate." Thanks for posting.

Hmmm...

According to it's very definition, most As don't meet this criteria.

In spite of what pretty much every AP wants to believe, there is a whole lot that the mm or mw isn't saying, and doesn't feel they can.

As with so many other things about an A, an om/ow believing that they are being told the 100% truth about the mm/mw marriage is a fools errand. By it's very nature, they are only ever given one side of the story. Does tis sound like someone feeling they can tell their "twin" anything and everything?

Of course, that's excused by " he/she doesn't want to hurt me". Funny thing about that is that the lies, deception, etc. end up hurting far more than the truth ever could.

Would a "twin flame" do this to their other flame? I doubt it, as hurting their other would be like hurting themselves. (btw...in my humble opinion, a better term than "twin" would be "twit" for buying into that theory, but that's just me..your opinion may be different)

If they loved them, truly loved them, they would never knowingly hurt them.They would be willing to do whatever it took to protect them from harm and hurt. I can't really think of many mp who do that.

As for the reference to the bible, that seems really hypocritical to bring that up in reference to an affair. One of the ten commandments being "thou shalt not commit adultery" and all. I wonder if god would give one a pass if they use " but she was my twin flame, so I simply had to cheat on my wife or get involved with a mm/mw" as an excuse:rolleyes:

( of course, I will be told that every A is different, "my mm/mw never lies to me", and that I don't know what I am talking about)

Edited January 11, 2014 by rumbleseat

January 11, 2014

Wow! I believe in this totally. This is exactly my definition of a "soul mate." Thanks for posting.

You just made my day ... or at least the past 10 minutes. But those were signs of a "Twin Flame" - a soul mate is not so much. Actually, I think the original poster would like a "Triplet Flame."

Edited January 11, 2014 by Mickey_Fitzpatrick

January 11, 2014

I think these situations can be very confusing for all parties involved. Feelings going from one extreme to the next.

I know that things are all over the place for you and that you have a lot of work to do in either direction. I do think that if you feel that you will not be able to get over (for a lack of better phrasing) the OW, you should absolutely divorce. Like, right now. There are times when you will see a wayward poster (sometimes their spouse is in the dark about the A, others have already had a DDay but are reconciling) comment about still being pretty well hung up on their xAP. Even though they are still with their BS the only time they post is to express their feelings about the OW/OM. They are still very much with their AP, even if only in their thoughts. It just seems like such an unfulfilling way to live for everyone. The BS that is in the dark has no clue that their husband or wife is so caught up with someone else. That is sad for obvious reasons. Cruel for others. The BS that has had a DDay may be under the impression that their spouse is truly remorseful and loves them in a deep and meaningful way that means letting go of AP in every way. Some WS never get there and I just feel that it's wasting everyone's time.

In your situation your wife knows. I hope that if you all do continue down this coarse you will also continue to communicate your feelings for the OW to her honestly. Your wife has already drawn her line in the sand. That she cannot continue if you continue to have such deep feelings. Understandably so. Who would want to live like that? Any of you.

January 11, 2014

You just made my day ... or at least the past 10 minutes. But those were signs of a "Twin Flame" - a soul mate is not so much. Actually, I think the original poster would like a "Triplet Flame."

I believe that is what everyone yearns for, a twin flame. I was using the word "soul mate" for lack of a better term. The idea of twin flame is what makes these situations so confusing. That feeling like you have met before, understand each other, etc. It just makes you feel like the relationship just feels right, so natural, effortless. It is not common and seems a waste to lose.

The OP has to make a choice based on prior commitments versus what he feels intuitively inside. Very difficult and heartbreaking.

January 11, 2014

Wow, I was and still am in your wife's position 4 months ago. I won't comment on your description of feeling to your wife or ow.

I can tell you it will be best for your wife if you just leave. You don't value or appreciate her and she doesn't deserve any of this. Couple months from now your wife will actually be relieved that you are not with her anymore and that now ow and not her will have to deal with all your selfish demands and the fact that you don't even understand the real meaning of love.

Give her a chance to find someone different.

I am on another side of this affair now, and I can tell you that even though I tried to work on my marriage and give him every chance I am glad now that it didn't work because I see clearly what kind of person he is. You are not anywhere near the position you need to be in order for your marriage to work. You just need to leave.

January 11, 2014

Twin flames, soul mates? Really?

2 people are compatible or they aren't. You don't find someone compatible, promise them a life together, then leave because you found someone more compatible.

Well, you shouldn't anyway.

If you are unhappy with your wife, and unable or unwilling to make it better, then leave her. Don't leave because you found your "twin flame".

Jesus.

January 12, 2014

It's not going to be your wife that makes the marriage better - that is completely up to you!

You are responsible for how you participate - if it's failing and not adequate for you - then that tells you what you put into it.

You get what you give. That's only on you.

January 13, 2014

Convenience, fear of judgment, loyalty, risk of a fractured relationship with my son. The usual.

You don't mention love for your wife.

I promise you, you have hurt her beyond measure, and the reason she gives YOU another chance is because she loves you. Otherwise she would have kicked your *** to the curb. She also loves your child, and she knows a divorce will damage him permanently.

Why didn't you tell her there were spaces in your relationship that needed to be filled? Why didn't you give her a "chance" then? Your silence has robbed her of choices.

January 13, 2014

I'm sorry, I just cannot get past the fact that HE cheated and he is testing his WIFE and "giving her a fair chance" to see if she is good enough for him to stay.

Unbelievable.

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