Wife vs. OW

January 9, 2014

How do you know this to be true? Do you have a crystal ball? If so, please tell me the lottery numbers for tonight. Seriously, you can not talk in absolutes. It is not unheard of for two people to fall in love under these circumstances and be telling their heart love story to their grandchildren.

Yes, there are realities in this situation that must be dealt with in a mature, sensitive manner. But, it can work out with very open communication with all involved. Things will settle and their life may very well be worth it in the long run. Why go through all of this turmoil to settle for a mediocre life. I would rather have an enthusiastic father, excited about life, than one who is following a script and unhappy.

Yes I have a crystal ball. I'll send you a PM with the lottery numbers in a PM.

Well, it is difficult to have something good out of something bad. But sure encourage him. Let him destroy these 2 families and the lives of these children in the name of "love", soul mates and unicorns.....

In the book Private Lies by Dr. Frank Pittman, he has a very good summary of reasons why second marriages between persons involved in an affair very seldom succeed.

Generally he notes that disasters are only inevitable when people use romance to jump from marriage to marriage without a rest stop between. He says that there is something inherently doomed in those marriages that begin as marriage-wrecking affairs.

He noted that in his practice while over half the people who get into romantic affairs end up divorced, only one-fourth marry the affairee. It is likely that over three-fourths of these affair marriages end up in divorce. He says that there is a greater likelihood that the divorcing partner will be back with the original spouse in five years that that the romantic affair will be a stable marriage at that time.

He gives 12 reasons for this phenomenon:

- Intervention of reality

- Guilt

- Disparity of sacrifice

- Expectations

- General distrust of marriage

- Distrust of affairee

- Divided loyalties

- The nature of infidels

- The nature of affairees

- Romance

- Scapegoating the betrayed

- Unshared history

Out of 100 couples, (Pittman's sample in his book private lies)

He said 50% of affairs couples divorced.

But, only 12% (12) actually married OP.

And then 75% of those failed (12*.75)= 9

Thus only 3 married betrayers are left

January 9, 2014

I wonder if the wife knows she's being tested? How very effing abusive! As if the affair wasn't enough

If you had read the entirety of my posts you would see that this is in fact the case.

My wife knows about the OW, my feelings towards her, and that this would be a massive obstacle to overcome for our marriage to remain in tact. I told her (when I didn't have to) that I was prepared to end the marriage and the OW was a big reason why. It was my W who decided to work on things in the short term with all the information on hand.

January 9, 2014

Yes I have a crystal ball. I'll send you a PM with the lottery numbers in a PM.

Well, it is difficult to have something good out of something bad. But sure encourage him. Let him destroy these 2 families and the lives of these children in the name of "love", soul mates and unicorns.....
In the book Private Lies by Dr. Frank Pittman, he has a very good summary of reasons why second marriages between persons involved in an affair very seldom succeed.

Generally he notes that disasters are only inevitable when people use romance to jump from marriage to marriage without a rest stop between. He says that there is something inherently doomed in those marriages that begin as marriage-wrecking affairs.

He noted that in his practice while over half the people who get into romantic affairs end up divorced, only one-fourth marry the affairee. It is likely that over three-fourths of these affair marriages end up in divorce. He says that there is a greater likelihood that the divorcing partner will be back with the original spouse in five years that that the romantic affair will be a stable marriage at that time.

He gives 12 reasons for this phenomenon:
- Intervention of reality
- Guilt
- Disparity of sacrifice
- Expectations
- General distrust of marriage
- Distrust of affairee
- Divided loyalties
- The nature of infidels
- The nature of affairees
- Romance
- Scapegoating the betrayed
- Unshared history

Out of 100 couples, (Pittman's sample in his book private lies)
He said 50% of affairs couples divorced.
But, only 12% (12) actually married OP.
And then 75% of those failed (12*.75)= 9
Thus only 3 married betrayers are left

I'm not ignoring the statistics, but I prefer to look at the 3 that succeeded and ask hard hitting questions about what made them different, and why they didn't suffer the fate of the other 97. If there are certain steps and actions (counseling, time etc.) that have to be taken to be part of the minority, I'm willing to do that.

That said, I'm also suspicious of statistics. Based on my own observation, I know many successful relationships that started with an A. Typically the ones who are happy and fulfilled don't participate in counseling or surveys that analyze the failures of marriage.

Also, who said remarriage is a requirement? We very well may live happily ever after in a common law partnership which many do.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Fullmona

January 9, 2014

If you had read the entirety of my posts you would see that this is in fact the case.

My wife knows about the OW, my feelings towards her, and that this would be a massive obstacle to overcome for our marriage to remain in tact. I told her (when I didn't have to) that I was prepared to end the marriage and the OW was a big reason why. It was my W who decided to work on things in the short term with all the information on hand.

Thanks for posting this again.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Speakingofwhich
think it would be considered moderating, not sure

January 9, 2014

i'm not ignoring the statistics, but i prefer to look at the 3 that succeeded and ask hard hitting questions about what made them different, and why they didn't suffer the fate of the other 97. If there are certain steps and actions (counseling, time etc.) that have to be taken to be part of the minority, i'm willing to do that.

That said, i'm also suspicious of statistics. Based on my own observation, i know many successful relationships that started with an a. Typically the ones who are happy and fulfilled don't participate in counseling or surveys that analyze the failures of marriage.

Also, who said remarriage is a requirement? We very well may live happily ever after in a common law partnership which many do.

go for it. Good luck!

January 9, 2014

Conversely, I know there are many people in this world (including the OWs own mother) who have discovered their ideal partner in our situations, and have taken the appropriate steps to start the relationship on the right foot.

My gut and my heart are telling me to be with the OW, but handle my separation with dignity and addressing unresolved issues and giving my wife a fair chance before departing.

I guess my question is how do I know the the difference between the feelings of love one gets in an affair vs. the feelings of a lasting connection and bond? I realize that love is a choice, and comes everyday with action and grows with history and companionship. But I also think there is something special that comes with a deep emotional connection that very few people in this world ever get the pleasure of experience. History and companionship can also be built on a foundation of a deep love.

Any comments and feedback on my situation is greatly appreciated.

I almost forgot what you were asking. The only way you can know the difference of love in an affair vs. The feelings of a leading connection is to have both. To do this, you have to divorce your wife, live on your own and then be in a legitimate relationship with your OW in order to tell the difference.

You have to feel comfortable with divorcing your wife because it is the right thing for you, not just to be with OW.

January 9, 2014

I'm not ignoring the statistics, but I prefer to look at the 3 that succeeded and ask hard hitting questions about what made them different, and why they didn't suffer the fate of the other 97. If there are certain steps and actions (counseling, time etc.) that have to be taken to be part of the minority, I'm willing to do that.

That said, I'm also suspicious of statistics. Based on my own observation, I know many successful relationships that started with an A. Typically the ones who are happy and fulfilled don't participate in counseling or surveys that analyze the failures of marriage.

Also, who said remarriage is a requirement? We very well may live happily ever after in a common law partnership which many do.

At the risk of seeming to be advocating that you leave for OW, which I'm not as I don't have enough info to have an opinion, I do want to also comment that I, too, am suspicious of statistics. The people I know who've left and married APs have all stayed married except for one couple. And of all the cases I've known who've left for AP they've all married AP.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Speakingofwhich
clarity

January 9, 2014

My thinking is, people would not go through so much turmoil to be together and then settle for average or give up on the relationship. I would think they would cherish their life together and not take it for granted.

January 9, 2014

I'm doing what I can to not view the OW as a backup plan and realize it's very possible I could lose both women here which is an outcome I need to accept. I've accepted the possibility that steering her back into her marriage to work on things could backfire. That is a risk I'm willing to take if it ensures a healthy relationship should I end up with the OW down the road.

The truth is, this woman will be on my mind and my heart while I work on my marriage. There is no way around this. At least with NC it serves as less of a distraction on a day to day and moment to moment basis. And at least my W knows about the OW, so it is an issue we can deal with together. If the OW's presence serves as an irrepairable major distraction to the marriage than it is very likely than leads to a mutual separation, but at least that conclusion can be formed after full disclosure.

Are you stating that you intend to tell your wife every time you're thinking about your OW?

Does your W feel she can pass your test?

January 9, 2014

My thinking is, people would not go through so much turmoil to be together and then settle for average or give up on the relationship. I would think they would cherish their life together and not take it for granted.

I think you maybe a bit naive of reality. People go through a lot and yet cheat and leave after so much.

The birth if children

Struggles through hardtimes

The death of children

Building a life together for years

It isn't romantic it is selfish.

The OP has made it obvious his heart is with the OW and that is where he wants it. But he'll give his wife a chance to try to win it. But there is no chance is there? He has already decided.

Havin his son part time is better than raising his son in a marriage where the son will grow up seeing his mother trying to get her husband to love and notice her.

January 9, 2014

If you are in love with OW, what is holding you back from leaving your W?

Convenience, fear of judgment, loyalty, risk of a fractured relationship with my son. The usual.

January 9, 2014

What I was referring to when I said people wouldn't go through this turmoil, only to settle for mediocre is the turmoil of the pain and splitting of families. The OP and OW can weather this together if they feel their love is worth fighting for.

OP will still be raising his son. Nothing can change OP from being a Dad. I don't think it would be realistic to have a Mom and Dad stay together who are not in love.

January 9, 2014

Convenience, fear of judgment, loyalty, risk of a fractured relationship with my son. The usual.

But WHAT IS IT you really WANT?

You must know that, know your own heart, to be fully committed to either a relationship with your OW or a relationship with your spouse!

Five years from now, where would you like to be?

You need to set a goal and work towards it. Otherwise you are wasting your life and wasting the lives of those you profess to love, care about.

if you TRULY want to give your spouse a shot, you MUST end all contact with your OW and devote the same amount of time, attention and passion to your spouse.

If you want a future with your OW you must tell your spouse and set her free to find a man who passionately wants to kiss and caress her for hours.

We cannot help you decide. we can only tell you the possible ramifications of the two decisions before you.

WHATEVER it takes for you to know your own heart and mind is what you must do....and if that means separating and living by yourself with NC with your OW and limited contact with your spouse --as you have a child to discuss-- as you go to counseling....THEN DO THAT!

SORT YOURSELF OUT MAN.....and stop wasting everyone's time.

January 9, 2014

What I was referring to when I said people wouldn't go through this turmoil, only to settle for mediocre is the turmoil of the pain and splitting of families. The OP and OW can weather this together if they feel their love is worth fighting for.

OP will still be raising his son. Nothing can change OP from being a Dad. I don't think it would be realistic to have a Mom and Dad stay together who are not in love.

Millions of people stay together without love. It isn't "unrealistic" at all just not ideal. If both people agree to remain living together, not dating others, get along well but aren't "in love" then that is their descision and not really a terrible one. But i believe both people need to be content with that and in our culture it isn't what we usually see.

January 9, 2014

At the risk of seeming to be advocating that you leave for OW, which I'm not as I don't have enough info to have an opinion, I do want to also comment that I, too, am suspicious of statistics. The people I know who've left and married APs have all stayed married except for one couple. And of all the cases I've known who've left for AP they've all married AP.

That's interesting considering that M that do not come from an A have a 50% failure rate.

Maybe I should get into an A and marry my AP so that I have a higher probability of success.

I think I have been approaching this all wrong then.....

I'm done with this thread and the nonsense!

January 9, 2014

But WHAT IS IT you really WANT?

You must know that, know your own heart, to be fully committed to either a relationship with your OW or a relationship with your spouse!

Five years from now, where would you like to be?

You need to set a goal and work towards it. Otherwise you are wasting your life and wasting the lives of those you profess to love, care about.

if you TRULY want to give your spouse a shot, you MUST end all contact with your OW and devote the same amount of time, attention and passion to your spouse.

If you want a future with your OW you must tell your spouse and set her free to find a man who passionately wants to kiss and caress her for hours.

We cannot help you decide. we can only tell you the possible ramifications of the two decisions before you.

WHATEVER it takes for you to know your own heart and mind is what you must do....and if that means separating and living by yourself with NC with your OW and limited contact with your spouse --as you have a child to discuss-- as you go to counseling....THEN DO THAT!

SORT YOURSELF OUT MAN.....and stop wasting everyone's time.

I'm not here to waste anyone's time or expecting anyone to make this decision for me, I'm here to do exactly what you said - hear and discuss the possible ramifications.

So ya, getting some personal experience and stories from others is a big part of helping me make this decision. Forgive me, it's kind of a life changing one.

January 9, 2014

OP, if your MOW was an OW (unmarried) would you be with her right now? Because if what is stopping you is her mariatel status and not yors than I am afraid should she become available you may jump ship and any effort put into R will be for not.

January 9, 2014

Are you stating that you intend to tell your wife every time you're thinking about your OW?

Does your W feel she can pass your test?

Not every time, and she's not sure yet.

January 9, 2014

I'm not here to waste anyone's time or expecting anyone to make this decision for me, I'm here to do exactly what you said - hear and discuss the possible ramifications.

So ya, getting some personal experience and stories from others is a big part of helping me make this decision. Forgive me, it's kind of a life changing one.

I don't think it is "our time wasted". Everyone refers to your wife and family.

January 9, 2014

I don't think it is "our time wasted". Everyone refers to your wife and family.

Wasting my wife's time would be not informing her of the affair at all. She is well aware of it's existence, my feelings and the obstacle of overcoming it.

January 9, 2014

Wasting my wife's time would be not informing her of the affair at all. She is well aware of it's existence, my feelings and the obstacle of overcoming it.

Well, good luck to you man!

And I mean that sincerely.

The first thing we learned in MC is that LOVE is in action, not a feeling. ( That's chemistry and lasts two to four years, also known as limerance....Read up.)

And the second thing my fWS learned is, the more you devote and do for your SO, the more in love you feel! shocker, I know! But the more you GIVE, the deeper your feelings GROW, the more in love you will FEEL.

So contrary to Affair speak....give that time, attention affection to your spouse...the more in love you will feel. Imagine that?

or not. then divorce her so she too can have that amazing emotional, sexual, passionate experience with another man who cherishes, adores and RESPECTS her.....because it WILL happen for her too.

And if you wind up with your OW, I wish you well. I mean that, truly. But please realize those intense chemical in your brains will last two to four years....they fade...and you two will someday be facing bills, difficulty communicating, warring children and intermittent sex.

read man. Educate yourself to the three stages of all long term relationships...and decide what you can live with.

NO ONE stays in Limerance forever.....NO ONE.

January 9, 2014

My gut and my heart are telling me to be with the OW, but handle my separation with dignity and addressing unresolved issues and giving my wife a fair chance before departing.

if this is how you feel, i think this is what you should do.

the only problem i see is that you've stated that you'd be thinking of her throughout this whole process. that means that you are not fully invested in giving your marriage a "fair chance." i realize you can't just shut off your feelings for this OW at the push of a button, but your attempt doesn't seem all that sincere..... sounds like you're going through the motions to save face.

furthermore, your wife has let it be known that she can't go on with the marriage if you still harbor feelings for this OW. clearly, you don't/can't let her go; emotionally speaking, that is. by this i mean, you're just wasting everyone's time- especially your wife's time.

classic case of an exit affair.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Artie Lang

January 9, 2014

I guess my question is how do I know the the difference between the feelings of love one gets in an affair vs. the feelings of a lasting connection and bond? I realize that love is a choice, and comes everyday with action and grows with history and companionship. But I also think there is something special that comes with a deep emotional connection that very few people in this world ever get the pleasure of experience. History and companionship can also be built on a foundation of a deep love.

Any comments and feedback on my situation is greatly appreciated.

I think you are asking whether your situation is real love. Many recite statistics of a study of only 100 couples, while others use words to define stages of love.

Love is not an exact science that can be dissected and proven to be real. Only you and your partner know whether your love is real. Go with your gut. Your heart knows what it wants.

January 9, 2014

Testing your wife after you have been the cheater is backwards.

Your wife should be requiring a lot more at this juncture.

I don't see your passion and investment and solid interest in your wife and saving the M.

Half an effort gets half the result.

Why bother?

January 9, 2014

If you had not met your OW would you have left your wife? Did thoughts of divorce cross your mind before the OW ?

There is no way to tell whether your affair will work out in the light of day. What you are doing to your wife is cruel. You are still having an affair even though you are NC. That makes it impossible to fix your marriage. She will fail as you can not compete with that newness feel you get in a new relationship. She can't give it to you as you know each other too well. To me it seems you aren't trying to fix your marriage. You want her to be able to give you something yet you don't tell her what it is. You are going through the motions so you can say , well, I tried. Yet you are not trying.

Please decide what you want now and stop giving your wife false hope. It is beyond cruel. She is suffering now and she will do so when you leave. It is better for her to only suffer from you leaving.

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