Wife vs. OW

January 8, 2014

Sorry for double post. I do hope you are thinking being with someone as coworker -Ow is so differant then being with someone full time.I have personally seen and lived this with family members,friends and myself.

January 8, 2014

I realize there are many topics on this subject already but wanted to solicit some feedback with respect to own situation.

I've hit an important crossroads where I need to make a decision on whether to work on my marriage, or end it an pursue a life with the OW.

To give some history. I have been married to my wife for 6.5 years after 10 years of dating. We have a 4 year old son together.

About 5 months ago I met the OW (also married with young kids) through a working relationship.

After a period of time, we realized we were in love, a love much stronger than either of us had ever experienced.

We knew if our relationship had any chance of success, we had to go about things the right way. We both received counselling, we solicited advice from family and friends, and have both began the process of informing our spouses about the affair and initiating a separation.

My wife has reacted with alot of hurt and has really looked inward rather than be angry. She has tried to reach out to me in new ways to develop the emotional chemistry that I received from the OW in an attempt to restore the marriage. After initially supporting my desire to end the marriage, she wants to continue to make the effort for the sake of our son. I admire her courage, I just question if it will be enough for me.

In a rash emotional decision under the weight of jealousy, guilt, frustration and many other things, I decided to break things off with the OW a few days ago

so we can both focus on giving our spouses one last chance to meet our needs in the marriage, for the sake of our children and for the sake of ensuring there are no issues of unresolved baggage prior to starting a new relationship together.

I feel this is an important test with my relationship with the OW to see if the feelings are real, and now that the spouses know there is no longer that excitement of a "forbidden love". I believe if these feelings prevail through this break then we know for certain it has the makings of a real, complete relationship. I realize alot of people involved in affairs at the time think they have found their soulmate, or that it feels so complete - only when they take that step they realize how incomplete it actually was. Therefore I want to put it through this important test and know for sure.

Conversely, I know there are many people in this world (including the OWs own mother) who have discovered their ideal partner in our situations, and have taken the appropriate steps to start the relationship on the right foot.

My gut and my heart are telling me to be with the OW, but handle my separation with dignity and addressing unresolved issues and giving my wife a fair chance before departing.

I guess my question is how do I know the the difference between the feelings of love one gets in an affair vs. the feelings of a lasting connection and bond? I realize that love is a choice, and comes everyday with action and grows with history and companionship. But I also think there is something special that comes with a deep emotional connection that very few people in this world ever get the pleasure of experience. History and companionship can also be built on a foundation of a deep love.

Any comments and feedback on my situation is greatly appreciated.

What is striking is that you've only known the OW for 5 months. I wouldn't advise a regular dating couple to make any commitments after such a short period of time, much less two married affair partners who both have young children.

It's not wife versus OW....as if it's some contest. Your decision to divorce should be based solely on a personal level in which you cannot continue in your marriage regardless if there, is or is not, someone waiting in the wings.

This whole situation you've described is littered with red flags.

Perhaps, you should divorce if you no longer feel love for your wife. I think jumping so quickly into breaking up two families for someone you've known for only 5 months is rash and could backfire.

Also, reality cannot compete with the affair. Blending two families and the day to day responsibilities and along with your finances will be a serious challenge.

Those children will be suffering and it will take lots of time and tears for them to adjust.

Seriously, anyone who divorces should be single for a least a year before getting into a new relationship. The focus should be on rebuilding your life and ensuring you are there for your son as he adjusts to his dad no longer living full time with him.

January 8, 2014

There has been little mention of the children involved in this. They will be the ones to be taken into serious consideration regarding the actions on both sides.

January 8, 2014

Well, your's could be a true exit affair: Married around 5 years and 0 to 1 child.

That scenario counts for 40% of all divorces, so maybe you did marry for the wrong reasons or the wrong person for you.

And that is on you.

Less sure is your OW. Three kids? How many years married? Three kids and divorcing becomes is a much rarer event.

You need to go total NC....nada, nothing, not a text.

Counseling is good, as is taking all the time you devoted talking and kissing and opening your heart to your OW, and investing all that time and attention and communication to your wife IF you seriously want to give reconciliation a chance.

try passionately kissing for hours the woman you married. You may be surprised.

If, after all that time, attention, affection and counseling.....and strictly following NC with your affair partner, you do not feel love in your heart, it is time to divorce and set your wife free.

Or, she may decide she does not want to be with a man who has cheated on her and she will set you free.

But I think you should give it one year with your spouse and if it doesn't change for you, then you should be alone for one year.

But I reiterate, the great unknown is your OW and where she will be in two years, so she should not be your reason to end your marriage.

This you have to do alone if you intend to be an assured, confident partner for anyone.

Does her husband know?

January 8, 2014

How do you expect to focus 150% of your energy on your marriage and repairing all that damage you caused - when you still know you have your OW as a backup plan - in your back pocket?

January 8, 2014

Well, your's could be a true exit affair: Married around 5 years and 0 to 1 child.

That scenario counts for 40% of all divorces, so maybe you did marry for the wrong reasons or the wrong person for you.

And that is on you.

Less sure is your OW. Three kids? How many years married? Three kids and divorcing becomes is a much rarer event.

You need to go total NC....nada, nothing, not a text.

Counseling is good, as is taking all the time you devoted talking and kissing and opening your heart to your OW, and investing all that time and attention and communication to your wife IF you seriously want to give reconciliation a chance.

try passionately kissing for hours the woman you married. You may be surprised.

If, after all that time, attention, affection and counseling.....and strictly following NC with your affair partner, you do not feel love in your heart, it is time to divorce and set your wife free.

Or, she may decide she does not want to be with a man who has cheated on her and she will set you free.

But I think you should give it one year with your spouse and if it doesn't change for you, then you should be alone for one year.

But I reiterate, the great unknown is your OW and where she will be in two years, so she should not be your reason to end your marriage.

This you have to do alone if you intend to be an assured, confident partner for anyone.

Does her husband know?

She has been married 10 years, 2 kids, and yes her husband knows. In fact he thinks it's worse than it is. He thinks we've had sex, when we have not.

January 8, 2014

Therefore I want to put it through this important test and know for sure.

You can't know for sure.

You are planning on divorcing your wife and then start a new life asap with the OW. Go try that and see how long your relationship lasts with the OW before you realize that it isn't what you thought it would be. One SHOULDN'T end a marriage, divorce and the next day start a new life with someone else, it's so unhealthy!! You have a long history with your wife, your inlaws, friends, and a child with her. To give all that up without giving it your absolute best is a mistake.

Anyway, with that said, it seems you don't want to give up your OW, so end your marriage, set your wife free so she can find someone who will love and adore ONLY her. Regardless of the OW in your life or not, you should divorce your wife. To have your wife as 'back up' plan or your OW as back up plan sucks and it's cruel to both women.

Keep your child away from the OW if you do end up with her. Last thing your kid needs is a new step mommy so soon in his life.

Good luck and I hope you do some counseling before making such a life changing decision.

January 8, 2014

How do you expect to focus 150% of your energy on your marriage and repairing all that damage you caused - when you still know you have your OW as a backup plan - in your back pocket?

Can you answer this please?

January 9, 2014

Fullmona, there was a time when I would have strongly encouraged you to stay and give your marriage and wife your full efforts to succeed in a recovery.

I know many posters are chiding you about the effect a D will have on your son and your W. But, at this point my personal belief is that the actions that will effect them have already been taken, that of giving your heart to OW and all that it entails.

So, that whether you stay or go they are affected, perhaps permanently.

I don't know your spiritual beliefs, but I truly believe your only hope with your wife, given the information you've posted, is that both of you immerse yourselves in God's Word and give your lives over to Him to work a miracle in your marriage. Because you need a miracle. And although He can work a miracle for the two of you, I would think you'd also want to seek MC at this time should you continue in your M.

If either of you is not inclined to do that then I believe you will be doing everyone, your W, your little boy and yourself a favor to D.

I have no idea if things will work out with you and your OW or not should you D and be free to pursue an R with her. We really can't judge your R with her from our vantage point, having only read a few of your posts here.

But, I wouldn't make a life changing decision such as leaving a M based on how I feel about a person I've known just 5 months, whether I was single or M.

Were I you, I would D your W only if it's something you'd do if OW were not in your life.

And here's a bit of information I'm going to offer you. I've lived a long time and have been in serious and loving long term Rs with multiple people. What I have discovered is that, yes, you will definitely have a deeper and richer connection with some people more than others. It is delightful and the stuff soul mates are made of. HOWEVER, it is possible to have a soul mate type relationship with that very deep connection that is just an amazing experience, and have that soul mate be a difficult person to live with.

There are people who have the gift of drawing you into them in a way that seems phenomenal. And some, not all, of such people can do this, not just with you, but.......also with other people! It's a gift. And if you get with someone like this you may tend to believe that this connection is something that is unique to the two of you.

And, it may be so, or it may not be so.

It may be that your "soul mate" will be drawn to another "soul mate" after you have come together as what you believe will be a permanent couple. Because they have the ability to reach into another person and get to the core of another causing the other person to believe they are a soul mate. And causing themselves to believe they've now met their real soul mate.

Also, sometimes it is more calm and predictable to live with a person who is not a soul mate type. Soul mate types are often very sensitive people, which has it's advantages. But, it also has disadvantages, too, as they tend to be more affected emotionally by your actions and more expressive of emotions, both positive and negative emotions.

That is only one part of the equation that may cause you problems.

Another part may be that your soul mate has a bad temper. Or spends money you don't have. Or doesn't get along with your child and no matter what you do it won't work out.

Or here's another one:

She may become ill. I have seen this happen with couples who connect via an A and marry. Yes, it does happen to couples who don't connect via an A, too.

All I'm trying to tell you is that just because things seem peachy with your OW now, there are many variables the two of you haven't thought of or don't even know about yet that can influence a union with her.

That is why it's really important that you consider what you have at home. Because you know you do have a W you can live comfortably with.

However, maybe you were once comfortable with her and now will never be again because of your passion and desire for OW.

Just know, there are no guarantees with OW. That said, you may leave and have a perfect life with her. You just can't count on it.

I just want you to think about what you had with your W before you met OW. Was it good then? If so, be very cautious about leaving.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Speakingofwhich
Grammar

January 9, 2014

I don't see why it's a test for your wife - it shouldn't be!

If anything she should be testing you - to see IF you'd stay faithful while a woman tempts you.

Since you've already failed that "test" you have a lot to prove.

It's on YOU to perform and change - not your wife.

January 9, 2014

So, your mindset is this is a test to see how much you love the OW, not to mention that you view this as a chance for your wife to prove herself to you.

Your weak minded attempt with your wife will fail as you put the onus on her to be a better partner, and this coming from someone who lacks integrity, communication skills and treated your wife with disrespect.
yet

The issue is YOU. Your lack of realist insight (citing your values, moral person)...values/morals are what you live not just something you say you have. And don't get things twisted about how you and the OW don't judge and have open minds. Really, how can either of you judge the other when you both have such poor boundaries, integrity, respect for others. Of course you agree, you are the same person. And to call you out, the OW would have to admit that she too is a person with poor character/morals. Most can not bear that, so they tell themselves lies, and the AP agrees with those lies because it keeps their positive view of themselves alive as well.

You both spoke to family and friends behind your spouses back. Not to the one person who should have been told. How disrespectful, to let others know what is going on in your spouses life, whilst keeping them in the dark.

Personally, I am not attracted to people just like me. There is no growth there, no additional resources of the skills that I lack, no new things to learn, no challenging myself.

I am not surprised your OW, is a daughter of an OW. People tend to recreate life experiences, regardless of the dysfunction.

Your heart, mind is not in R, it WILL fail. You set it up that way.

Leave your soon to be "jealous ex spouse"(don't rule out relieved), as you have already determined the outcome. Stop playing martyr and accept that in the end you were nothing more than a lying, cheating husband not a man with morals.

Amen to this. OP, I almost fell off my chair after reading your declaration that you and the OW both have "strong moral codes". Well....maybe....if you are not counting that whole betraying your spouses thing.

January 9, 2014

There are many who are quick to downplay the strong feelings you speak of with OW. "It is just chemicals, affair fog, etc." I am one who believes in "soul mates." Sometimes people's personalities are just different. It takes great efforts to have a somewhat semblance of a relationship. Other times, there is a connection that can't be explained and people just understand each other. This kind of relationship is very deep and natural that it just feels right. Sometimes, love cannot be explained.

If you are not in love with your wife, divorce your wife for that reason alone. That is the honest thing to do. Don't divorce to be with OW. Allow time for things to settle before considering to date anyone. If it happens the OW does the same thing, ends her marriage too, maybe you can be together down the road.

Be honest with yourself, your wife, your children. Be true to yourself. If you follow your heart in all matters of life, you will be a happier person who loves completely and lives life to the fullest. You will be a happier father and enjoy a passionate life with the one you are meant to be with. Go with your heart.

January 9, 2014

There are many who are quick to downplay the strong feelings you speak of with OW. "It is just chemicals, affair fog, etc." I am one who believes in "soul mates." Sometimes people's personalities are just different. It takes great efforts to have a somewhat semblance of a relationship. Other times, there is a connection that can't be explained and people just understand each other. This kind of relationship is very deep and natural that it just feels right. Sometimes, love cannot be explained.

If you are not in love with your wife, divorce your wife for that reason alone. That is the honest thing to do. Don't divorce to be with OW. Allow time for things to settle before considering to date anyone. If it happens the OW does the same thing, ends her marriage too, maybe you can be together down the road.

Be honest with yourself, your wife, your children. Be true to yourself. If you follow your heart in all matters of life, you will be a happier person who loves completely and lives life to the fullest. You will be a happier father and enjoy a passionate life with the one you are meant to be with. Go with your heart.

The problem with the whole solemate thing is that you are solemates until...well....you're not. For many of these people, there is always a newer/better/solematier person just around the corner. The whole concept is immature, IMO, and leads to people who look to the stars being aligned rather than with themselves for contentment.

January 9, 2014

She has been married 10 years, 2 kids, and yes her husband knows. In fact he thinks it's worse than it is. He thinks we've had sex, when we have not.

I wanted to quote this posting for emphasis, as it appears that the OP has been engaged in an EA for sure, and possible PA without sexual relations, meaning there have been physical expressions of affection but no genital contact. IMO, it's important to focus on this dynamic moving forward into the MC process, as it will work differently than a sexual PA.

OP, be aware, although opinion does vary, that women can and do consider EA's in some cases to be more injurious than PA's which didn't include 'love'. You're talking about a soulmate here. That's some serious stuff. I can share with you that, although I did not have a PA, once my exW realized that she 'didn't have me', meaning consistent love and emotional fidelity from me, that pretty much did it for her. YMMV on that but it'll be something to work with your spouse. Good luck.

January 9, 2014

OP's description of his great love for the OW reminds me of Anna and Hanz on Frozen and their song... Where they finish each others... Sandwhiches (apologies to those who haven't seen it and have no idea what I'm talking about)

IME people make up their mind about love, soulmates, ect and then stubbornly cling to that belief. OP if this is your mindset their is nothing to he done... Your marriage is over. So stop trying o pretend to work on it and seperate. If you can't remember those times when your wife filled your heart with joy and when you couldn't wait to get your hands on her. If you have fully rewritten your history that is a problem in you and without getting to the bottom of it history has a good chance of repeating itself.

I also think the whole "giving your wife another chance" is bullsht. Like WTF. You screwed her over not vice versa.

January 9, 2014

How do you expect to focus 150% of your energy on your marriage and repairing all that damage you caused - when you still know you have your OW as a backup plan - in your back pocket?

I'm doing what I can to not view the OW as a backup plan and realize it's very possible I could lose both women here which is an outcome I need to accept. I've accepted the possibility that steering her back into her marriage to work on things could backfire. That is a risk I'm willing to take if it ensures a healthy relationship should I end up with the OW down the road.

The truth is, this woman will be on my mind and my heart while I work on my marriage. There is no way around this. At least with NC it serves as less of a distraction on a day to day and moment to moment basis. And at least my W knows about the OW, so it is an issue we can deal with together. If the OW's presence serves as an irrepairable major distraction to the marriage than it is very likely than leads to a mutual separation, but at least that conclusion can be formed after full disclosure.

January 9, 2014

I wanted to quote this posting for emphasis, as it appears that the OP has been engaged in an EA for sure, and possible PA without sexual relations, meaning there have been physical expressions of affection but no genital contact. IMO, it's important to focus on this dynamic moving forward into the MC process, as it will work differently than a sexual PA.

OP, be aware, although opinion does vary, that women can and do consider EA's in some cases to be more injurious than PA's which didn't include 'love'. You're talking about a soulmate here. That's some serious stuff. I can share with you that, although I did not have a PA, once my exW realized that she 'didn't have me', meaning consistent love and emotional fidelity from me, that pretty much did it for her. YMMV on that but it'll be something to work with your spouse. Good luck.

To clarify, we have touched genitals but have not engaged in intercourse.

January 9, 2014

The problem with the whole solemate thing is that you are solemates until...well....you're not. For many of these people, there is always a newer/better/solematier person just around the corner. The whole concept is immature, IMO, and leads to people who look to the stars being aligned rather than with themselves for contentment.

Everyone has a right to believe what they will. For me, the idea of soul mate is exactly what the term says: a mate of a soul. I believe (unless you are a recluse who lives in a cabin in the woods) everyone yearns for a relationship that is deep. A relationship that connects your souls. I would go as far as to say, perhaps you feel you have met before but that is for another discussion.

I believe when you find your soul mate (and you can have several in a lifetime), you experience a mature love. This love is not based on sex, good looks, money, or material things. This love is something two people just feel. They just know it when they are together. Soul mates stay together for life. If one should die before the other, they know they will meet again in another plane. While still alive, the surviving mate may meet another soul mate.

Sometimes people marry who are not soul mates. Two people so different that they do not connect on this deep level. They live their lives together but separately.

I agree there is immature love. This type of "love" is shallow, based on sex or material things. This isn't love. People who are always looking for someone better don't know how to love or aware that a soul mate can exist. Superficial "love" is all they know.

All I suggest is people be honest with themselves. You can't force someone to feel this connection or attraction when it is not there. One must be in love with their partner. Don't lie to yourself or your partner if you are not in love. To do so, keeps you and your partner from being able to experience true love.

Live an authentic life.

January 9, 2014

The problem with the whole solemate thing is that you are solemates until...well....you're not. For many of these people, there is always a newer/better/solematier person just around the corner. The whole concept is immature, IMO, and leads to people who look to the stars being aligned rather than with themselves for contentment.

I expected the suggestion of "soulmates" would attract much criticism.

I think everyone's definition is different, but it's not an idea I had ever believed in until now.

Do I believe there are two people destined to be together who wouldn't be compatible with anybody else? No, I do not.

Do I believe that there is such thing as a complete relationship based on intense emotional, spiritual, intellectual and physical compatability? Yes. Certainly it could be achieved with more than one person, but now that I have experienced it I find it nearly impossible to be happy with the status quo - whether or not things with the OW ever work out. And I'm very aware they may not due to a variety of reasons that have been mentioned.

January 9, 2014

I don't believe in soul mates, but I don't believe it's impossible to love more than one person, either. I don't know that you love them the same, but I do believe it's possible to love more than one person at once, though I never have personally (unless we're counting mom love for my kids! That's not what I'm referring to, though.).

January 9, 2014

[Deleted quotation and response thereto redacted, in part]

Try posting on the OW/OM board next time. Not saying you still won't be "attacked" with "facts", but you'll get more support there than you will on this board.

Edited January 9, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Thread cleanup

January 9, 2014

The problem with the whole solemate thing is that you are solemates until...well....you're not. For many of these people, there is always a newer/better/solematier person just around the corner. The whole concept is immature, IMO, and leads to people who look to the stars being aligned rather than with themselves for contentment.

Whoops...had to laugh at my spelling of soulmate.

Note to self - don't type while drinking wine and looking for shoes online!!!

January 9, 2014

Because you posted on the infidelity board. Trying posting on the OW/OM board next time. Not saying you still won't be "attacked" with "facts", but you'll get more support there than you will on this board.

The OP came here quoting that he is currently working on his marriage by letting his wife have a second chance while he pines for his soulmate I doubt he'd get much of a different answer.

January 9, 2014

I would not put much stock in statistics from a blog article. However, remaining married after 5 or even 10 years says nothing about the "success" of a relationship. As you can tell from your own situation, you can still be married and unhappy or cheating with someone else. Most people who are genuinely unhappy leave their marriages, but there's also a lot more at play in a second marriage than a first marriage that has to be considered.

Not to mention the fact that subsequent marriages automatically have higher rates of divorce, anyway. Subsequent marriages while merging families, even more so. Whether those divorces are due to merging families, subsequent marriages, it starting in an A or something else entirely, I truly don't think there's a sure fire way to tell.

January 9, 2014

It is not unheard of for two people to fall in love under these circumstances and be telling their heart love story to their grandchildren.

While it is not unheard of for people to come together for life after an affair it is hardly the lovey dovey awesome story that is told the grandkids.

"you see, dearie, while I was married to your grandma x I met grandma x. We formed an amazing relationship while marries. And then I left your daddy's mommy for her. Breaking her hear in the process." it was a heart love story all they way even if a few hearts (your djaddy and grandma x) had to have their hearts broke.

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