Am I insane for wanting to be wined and dined?

January 9, 2014

No you are not at all,it's very much a sign of love.

Seven Signs He Is Falling in Love | Divine Caroline

January 9, 2014

For the guys who are upset about putting in early effort... look at it this way... you are testing her too... seeing how she manages your kindness. If she is appreciative and wants to reciprocate.

I put in a lot more effort early on compared to a lot of women I know. Partly because I'm not having sex with them early...

since a lot of guys seem to take sex as the main arbiter of 'interest' these days, I realize I need to do other things to keep him interested. So far, I haven't had too many problems keeping them interested for the few months I need to sift out their true personalities. *shrug*

Also, I observe how my acts of kindness are taken. If they are not acknowledged... or worse, disrespected... then I know we aren't compatible.

Same thing with the guy. Being a gentleman gives the woman a chance to show what she's made of as well. Sitting back like an entitled princess to be doted on isn't going to keep a real gentleman at all.

January 9, 2014

Also, I observe how my acts of kindness are taken. If they are not acknowledged... or worse, disrespected... then I know we aren't compatible.

Agree. I'm not worried the slightest that I 'give more' in the beginning. I see how he takes it and whether he returns it. A good person responds positively to giving. They don't play games.

January 9, 2014

I would honestly be a little turned off if someone accepted my offer to split the bill on a first couple of dates though.

So its just an empty gesture. I've done the 'I want to pay my half' dance before, and it goes on a lot on dates, but it is some what annoying if the guy knew that if he did believe the girl was sincerely happy to pay (with no more expectations for him), then he failed her test and its bye bye. Why can't you do the guy a favor and just be gracious rather than pretend you are happy for 50/50 when you aren't. *

As quite a few people on this thread have said the expectation of the guy wining & dining to win over a woman is old fashioned, but not every guy lives like that anymore. The dating landscape has changed a lot since the 'Mad Men' days.

* I realize you are happy to put your hand in your purse a little down the line and are only a student, so I fully understand the imbalance in earning power on your dates, and I get why you expect the guy to treat you. Its just this fake offer act that bugged me.

January 9, 2014

First, I love this thread. The combination of bitterness and aggressiveness I see here makes me appreciate my life so much more. I've laughed so hard I've cried at some of these responses

Second, it seems that people place way too much emphasis on "opening the wallet" being a chivalrous act. With the millions of ways to act in a chivalrous manner why over emphasize this one? Chivalry includes courtesy, generosity, valor, dexterity in arms, and more.

Would paying for your meal be so important if for instance he saw a family on the street as you were walking towards the restaurant and brought them in and paid for their meal instead? What about if he didn't pay for your meal but defended you from assault from a stranger? What if he shared some of his fries with you at dinner? That's generosity too... just not cash.

Granted I act in a chivalrous manner as that's how my mother raised me and what I emulated from my father. But I've always wondered about the overemphasis of the wallet being an aspect of chivalry. With all of the ways to be generous why does paying for dates seem to take the cake? Why did dexterity in arms stop impressing women? I'd like to be chivalrous by swinging a mace around the house. I may just look one up on ebay and see if it impresses the future Mrs. Philosoraptor.

Finally third. I hope this thread lasts forever

January 9, 2014

Second, it seems that people place way too much emphasis on "opening the wallet" being a chivalrous act. With the millions of ways to act in a chivalrous manner why over emphasize this one? Chivalry includes courtesy, generosity, valor, dexterity in arms, and more.

I think it's mostly just that these threads get way more responses than others and tend to go on forever, creating the illusion of over-emphasis. A few people definitely over-emphasize it, but not everyone responding in favour of chivalry is. Plus you can't really hold jousting tourneys anymore now.

Finally third. I hope this thread lasts forever

There already is the consolidated one that spans 100+ pages. Look it up, I kid you not.

January 9, 2014

I'm gonna do that for him He will probably tell me to stop, but it'll get a smile out of him I'm sure.

My boyfriend gets himself all worked up over the car door haha. I'm getting used to not opening mine, but sometimes out of habit when we pull up somewhere I just go to get out, pull the handle and start opening the door. He says "You better stop and shut that door, don't you dare get out of this car." LOL I sit there with my hands folded in my lap all prim and proper to keep myself from grabbing the door handle.

I will let a woman get out of the car on her own, but, I do insist on opening the door for her when she gets into the car.

One thing I noticed towards the end of my marriage; I was not doing this, in retrospect, it was a sign for me.

January 9, 2014

He said he hates when women ASSUME a man will just get out his wallet EVERY TIME they dine out.

This is what I advocate. It is wrong for a woman to assume the man will pay regardless of how much he makes. Many men don't expect a woman to ever pay, but if a woman does offer to pay, whether half or all, women shouldn't balk that the man accepts the gesture, meanwhile denigrating him for being unchivalrous.

A lot of men who are really interested will pay. A LOT of them. That is why it can be a bad sign when a guy doesn't pay for your first date.

The men I knew that were all really into their date, they paid for their first dinner together; if they were not broke, they paid for their other dinners out, too.

There is no advocation for a man to not pay the first date or any subsequent dates. It's general practice and gentleman like to pay, which I happily oblige. One of the many issues that is throughout the thread is a woman's expectation for the man to pay, which is completely unfair.

In my case and with many cases, the guy can still be crazy about you and yet still not pay for every date.

Very good, I commend you for noticing this. I personally wish more women would appreciate the romance and quality time that a date can potential be, rather than fussing over hardline chivalry of the man's responsibility to pay for the date.

It is a bad sign to me though, when the guy pays for NO dates.

The OP's guy doesn't sound very generous; come on, he has paid for only ONE date out of 5, and he mentioned her shouting him drinks after to make it up to him. WTF?

The guy is a user, selfish, and unappreciative. But real question is, why did the OP have five dates with him? Why couldn't she recognize this after the second date?

January 9, 2014

Here's something I'd like to add.

I did completely pay for everything on the first date my ex and I went on.

$5 total for parking at the beach and hiking trails.

January 9, 2014

I've just started seeing someone and I really like him, but I am extremely annoyed with the fact that he has never actually paid entirely for any of our dates, and didn't come and pick me up during our last date.

Before you attack me, let me say that we always split the bills on the date, and I don't really mind, but in the beginning I guess I would like some romance and chivalry...is it crazy for me to want him to take me out-in all sense of the phrase (e.g., pick me up, pay for dinner) essentially wine and dine me!!!

I know people will post about gender equality and feminist movement..which I am all for, but I don't think chivalry and feminism have to be in contention with one another. To me, they are completely different things.

I feel a bit shallow about this but it does bother me. I am of the mindset that if I guy really likes you and wants you he will go to the moon and back, or just pay for dinner the first few times. Not even our first date did he do that, we split the bill!

Is this dump worthy???

My only problem with this has always been the wanting to have your cake and eat It too aspect.

Let's keep it real A lot of women like to be "traditional" and "old fashioned" when it benefits them

January 9, 2014

Absolutely agree. However if you were a man, some of the women would still expect you so. To me in the 21st century that's just mind boggling. Or if the surgeon said, 'well I'm not dating MA students, she can't afford to buy me dinner'. Gender stereotypes are just

I wouldn't actually blame a man in his position for being that way inclined, to be honest, as from the sounds of it he gets a lot of women chasing him because he earns good money and has a nice car/nice clothes before they even realise he's a surgeon. I wouldn't have a problem with somebody on that professional level only dating women who were able to compete, so that they could worry a little less they were being used as a meal ticket.

We're having our third date as a lunch thing this Monday coming, I fully intend to try and pay for the whole thing.

January 9, 2014

So its just an empty gesture. I've done the 'I want to pay my half' dance before, and it goes on a lot on dates, but it is some what annoying if the guy knew that if he did believe the girl was sincerely happy to pay (with no more expectations for him), then he failed her test and its bye bye. Why can't you do the guy a favor and just be gracious rather than pretend you are happy for 50/50 when you aren't. *

As quite a few people on this thread have said the expectation of the guy wining & dining to win over a woman is old fashioned, but not every guy lives like that anymore. The dating landscape has changed a lot since the 'Mad Men' days.

* I realize you are happy to put your hand in your purse a little down the line and are only a student, so I fully understand the imbalance in earning power on your dates, and I get why you expect the guy to treat you. Its just this fake offer act that bugged me.

I know what you mean, but I don't really see another way. I mean, I would never NOT offer because that looks so unbelievably rude. Two of my three serious exes were either skint or really tight with the money they did have, and my ex I was with for four years never even bought me a coffee in all that time. So it was a surprise to get back out dating and find men that I had no guarantee of seeing again offering to pick up an entire dinner date check!

If I offered and a guy accepted, and I had an indication that his financial situation wasn't amazing (For example the difference between dating an artist who is only working part time hours and still getting their art stuff off the ground versus a working surgeon or doctor) it wouldn't bother me if they accepted me splitting it. I had a coffee date yesterday that came to £9 and we both only had £10 notes and they had no change, so he said he'd get this and I said I'd get next time, that's fine with me and if we meet again I will do so. But he was willing to let me split before the change incident and I'd still have seen him again because I know he's probably got even less cash than me so he's not being tight, he's being realistic.

It's really not that empty, I'd still see a guy again I'm just saying it might put me off a little even though I like to think of myself as a feminist, pro-equal rights, and can't defend my feelings on it logically or rationally at all. It never put me off either of those serious exes enough to be a factor in breaking up.

I think a guy can tell the difference between someone getting their purse out and offering once, and then graciously accepting the treat versus somebody who firmly insists they are splitting so I don't imagine they'd feel they failed some secret test

January 9, 2014

I wouldn't actually blame a man in his position for being that way inclined, to be honest, as from the sounds of it he gets a lot of women chasing him because he earns good money and has a nice car/nice clothes before they even realise he's a surgeon. I wouldn't have a problem with somebody on that professional level only dating women who were able to compete, so that they could worry a little less they were being used as a meal ticket.

I wouldn't either and I would fully understand it in his shoes. I'd hazard a guess however that the ladies that insist on their dinner being paid for wouldn't be so understanding.

We're having our third date as a lunch thing this Monday coming, I fully intend to try and pay for the whole thing.

I'm seeing someone who earns far less than me. He does small things things for me and pays for bits and bobs but I would never expect him to pick up full tab. partly because he is responsibly saving for something important.

January 9, 2014

Also I'll only ever do dinner for a first date if the guy suggests it first. I'm more than happy with a couple of lattes in a coffee shop, and in those scenario if he has gotten the first couple I'll get the next couple so we're even. I've seen girls on her complain of being 'screened' with 'cheap coffee dates' which just seems insane, why should someone be expected to shell out tens of pounds or dollars on one evening with someone they barely know, when they might never see them again? Even people who earn good money, chances are they don't want to squander it because they have bigger and more important goals than just taking a different girl out to dinner every few nights.

January 9, 2014

I wouldn't either and I would fully understand it in his shoes. I'd hazard a guess however that the ladies that insist on their dinner being paid for wouldn't be so understanding.

I'm seeing someone who earns far less than me. He does small things things for me and pays for bits and bobs but I would never expect him to pick up full tab. partly because he is responsibly saving for something important.

Yeah, he seems to quite like that I'm training for a really important/caring profession that is never gonna earn me megabucks but is quite altruistic and from the heart (I do a lot of voluntary work in the area already). It's not a purely academic MA with no real career path, it's a professional one and by the end I'll be qualified to work in a specific area. I think he knows a lot of people who have decent careers/jobs but said he hasn't met many people who are as passionate about doing a really difficult career as I am so it seems to attract him even though it'll be nine months before I am ready to practice

January 9, 2014

First, I love this thread. The combination of bitterness and aggressiveness I see here makes me appreciate my life so much more. I've laughed so hard I've cried at some of these responses

Second, it seems that people place way too much emphasis on "opening the wallet" being a chivalrous act. With the millions of ways to act in a chivalrous manner why over emphasize this one? Chivalry includes courtesy, generosity, valor, dexterity in arms, and more.

Would paying for your meal be so important if for instance he saw a family on the street as you were walking towards the restaurant and brought them in and paid for their meal instead? What about if he didn't pay for your meal but defended you from assault from a stranger? What if he shared some of his fries with you at dinner? That's generosity too... just not cash.

Granted I act in a chivalrous manner as that's how my mother raised me and what I emulated from my father. But I've always wondered about the overemphasis of the wallet being an aspect of chivalry. With all of the ways to be generous why does paying for dates seem to take the cake? Why did dexterity in arms stop impressing women? I'd like to be chivalrous by swinging a mace around the house. I may just look one up on ebay and see if it impresses the future Mrs. Philosoraptor.

Finally third. I hope this thread lasts forever

I would not recommend putting a family of strangers above your date. Sorry, but mama eats before they do.

January 9, 2014

I would not recommend putting a family of strangers above your date. Sorry, but mama eats before they do.

To be entirely honest, if I went on a date with a man who ended up buying lunch for a starving family we saw on the way to the restaurant, I would be instantly swooned and happy to eat a .99 pizza slice instead.

But that's just me...

January 9, 2014

So if your date bought a homeless family lunch, but then when the check came on your date, he wanted to split, you'd be fine with that?

That would only show me he can be generous with total strangers but not the girl he's dating. LOL

Nope.

I'm happy splitting the check either way. The expectations I have from a partner are in no way related to money or the amount he is spending or not.

Someone paying for a date or not has no effect whatsoever on my interest with the guy.

Now, if this is what you think, you are making an assumption about a person's generosity based on one event.

Just because my date pays lunch to a starving family once doesn't mean he's cheap when it comes to the girl he's dating the rest of the time...

But like I said, it's just me. I've known for a while I was not like the other girls. lol

January 9, 2014

Be entitled to whatever you want. Wether your sense of entitlement serves you well or ends up biting you in the back is your responsibility anyway.

January 9, 2014

Well it's a rather silly scenario anyway. I don't think anyone here has dated a guy who bought a homeless family a meal on their way to a date.

Me either. Unfortunately.

When I was a kid my dad took me to McDonalds once and he bought a homeless man a burger though.

My dad is awesome.

January 9, 2014

I know its been asked before but I don't think we ever got an answer.

Exactly what percentage of effort are you giving to show him that you are interested in him. It's not a one way street you know.

January 9, 2014

Me either. Unfortunately.
When I was a kid my dad took me to McDonalds once and he bought a homeless man a burger though.
My dad is awesome.

I bought several homeless men burgers and cold water from Burger King whilst driving to a date once. But my date wasn't with me.

My date paid for the date.

I'm always prepared to pay, but I'll admit it feels like a guy is not very interested if he doesn't. My major relationships all paid, pretty much for every date ever where I didn't sneak a payment while they were in the restroom. (They all did make significantly more money than I do/did.) If he made it abundantly clear in other ways I would be less concerned. Best case scenario is a very thoughtful, interesting date (not just dinner) that is free or very cheap. That would get more interest from most women than an expensive dinner, I think, and not break the bank.

January 9, 2014

Perhaps, here in lies a couple key points:

#1) When a guy has the means to drop $80-$100 for wine/dine/entertain on a regular basis, he does not have to check his account balance to see if there is anything left. Compare to the guy who would love to do the same but cannot when making say... 50K/year w/child support and living payday to payday.

#2) For the guy with the means, it is a luxury to feel good about being able to "provide". The guy just trying to live within his budget has to come up with "other" means (besides financial) to be seen as a good partner or provider.

Absolutely. I think it's easier for a man who has the financial means to treat to dates like this.

But really, what it comes down to is effort on the guy's part. For a guy with less cash, it will take more creativity to plan a fun, inexpensive date activity. Someone here mentioned hiking... a great date idea! I would love that kind of date.

My SO regularly treats to fancy dinners... but let it also be known that we've had dates where we:

1) brought a split of cheap wine to the docks to watch the tall ships under the moonlight;

2) saw a free string quartet recital when when the local college had its graduation (that one came with free sushi too!);

3) took two train tickets out to a cute fishing town and wander the beach, ate canoli, and perused a used book store; and,

4) played with robots in his office while drinking free lattes (his floor has a machine).

All of those dates were under $15 apiece. Yes, picking up the check is a means of "treating" a woman... but someone who doesn't have the means to go to fancy restaurants can still wow her with a little more effort.

And on the other end of the spectrum, even though my SO is "of means," I often prefer his more creative dates to his more expensive ones.

January 9, 2014

Absolutely. I think it's easier for a man who has the financial means to treat to dates like this.

But really, what it comes down to is effort on the guy's part. For a guy with less cash, it will take more creativity to plan a fun, inexpensive date activity. Someone here mentioned hiking... a great date idea! I would love that kind of date.

My SO regularly treats to fancy dinners... but let it also be known that we've had dates where we:
1) brought a split of cheap wine to the docks to watch the tall ships under the moonlight;
2) saw a free string quartet recital when when the local college had its graduation (that one came with free sushi too!);
3) took two train tickets out to a cute fishing town and wander the beach, ate canoli, and perused a used book store; and,
4) played with robots in his office while drinking free lattes (his floor has a machine).

All of those dates were under $15 apiece. Yes, picking up the check is a means of "treating" a woman... but someone who doesn't have the means to go to fancy restaurants can still wow her with a little more effort.

And on the other end of the spectrum, even though my SO is "of means," I often prefer his more creative dates to his more expensive ones.

Awwww, so cute the dates your SO has done, especially the robots one!!

January 9, 2014

Here's something I'd like to add.

I did completely pay for everything on the first date my ex and I went on.

$5 total for parking at the beach and hiking trails.

I have always loved nature dates, and would have found this very fun and romantic. When guys do stuff like this for me, I pack a picnic and bring the wine and beer. It really isn't about the money, but about the thought. I would love this as much a weekend in New York with fancy dining and Broadway. What you described would be very, very appreciated.

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Am I insane for wanting to be wined and dined?

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