Am I insane for wanting to be wined and dined?

[Els]

The 'wants' vs 'expectation' debate going on here is a bit of a red herring, IMO. Yes, of course, 'expectation' is ugly either way, because nobody owes you anything. But that goes for ANYthing aside from the basics of respect and common decency, because nobody owes ANYone anything. Blowjobs, shaved pubes, nice hair, lingerie, cooked meals - I'm sure you can see where I'm going here.

 

There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting a man who wants to treat her, any more than there is with a man wanting a woman who wants to do any of the above.

 

Chivalry is not dead. Crimey, I don't know why you ladies don't meet more guys that are more traditional. I mean, all the male (heterosexual) peers around me, my brother, friends are the type to pay for a woman's meal.

 

We pay until we get to know our SOs very well and then a little give and take is appreciated.

 

It's probably a cultural thing - depends on the demographic. The only time I've ever gone dutch on a date was at a food court where you order food separately. Occasionally guys have let me treat them, but it was always one or the other (admittedly, more often them, given the culture), not literally splitting the bill down the middle.

[StanMusial]

Dude, I don't understand either. 11 pages of thread, less than 5 posts about these " other " issues.

 

 

I believe her that there are other things that bother her. I suspect she is hiding behind the money / paying for dates issue because she is too shy or afraid to confront the real thongs that are bothering her.

 

Whether or not she would admit that of it was true is up to her.

 

 

But if its not about money.... why did you start and continue a thread about money .

 

Maybe her drahs are riding up.

 

Frankly, I'm in the traditional camp of the guy pays. It's not an issue for me because I have plenty of money. However, I can empathize with guys that are poor but if that's an issue then don't date poor guys.

[Els]

 

But if its not about money.... why did you start and continue a thread about money .

 

I think she made threads about her other issues, just that, in usual LS fashion, this turned out to be the hottest one.

[Els]

But he will have none of it. And we've actually bickered about it. He pays for EVERYTHING. My attempts at trying to pay get nowhere. DENIED. Hell, I took him out for his birthday and I quickly grabbed the bill when it came, and he went to grab it too, and he actually wrestled it out of my hand. I just about shouted at him lol. HIS birthday and he won't let me pay.

 

Aww, that's so sweet! My guy does that too, except he goes the 'card over mine' route.

 

Now that you know what happens, you can buy or make him a gift for his birthday instead next time, that way he can't wrestle you out.

[chicaboom]

You can say its not about money, and then I can direct you to the very thread you want me to reread. You have more posts in this thread over the very thing you are trying to say its not about.

 

If its not about him paying for you... why is there an entire thread started and continued by you about him paying for you. I remember seeing less than 3 posts from you talking about the " real issue "

 

Please reread this entire thread from the beginning to see what i'm really talking about.

 

missing the point.

 

The real issue has an entire thread dedicated to it...in fact I remember you posting in it.

[Keenly]

Please reread this entire thread from the beginning to see what i'm really talking about.

 

missing the point.

 

The real issue has an entire thread dedicated to it...in fact I remember you posting in it.

 

I'm a little dense, perhaps if I am missing the point, you can give me the point.

 

 

I am a man and need it spelled out for me. I can't seem to figure it out.

[GoreSP]

Wow. this thread has turned into OP trying to justify herself to all the people who don't agree with her.

 

If you want him to pay for dates, tell him. Just be ready to deal with the consequences. He may not like your 'expectations'

[crude]

How would the OP feel about a man who wanted you to wine and dine him, buy him presents, and show him that you care so much that you'd be willing to go to the moon and back for him. He'd be a male version of you. How would your female friends react to a man who claimed that it's romantic for you to pay for things, and if you don't, then you're cheap. If a lady really likes a man, why won't she take him out, maybe a UFC event and a nice dinner for example. If he needs a new TV, I see a 92" on sale, just to show him how much she values him and his company, buy it for him. Have you paid for a date entirely? It's a typical woman's entitlement thread, it's all about YOU. He gives and you take. If a man expected you to do all the work, all the paying, give all the effort, what would you think of a guy like that? You're a female version of him.

[Woggle]

I have no issue being traditional and old fashioned with a woman as long as she is traditional old fashioned with me. The fact that a number of women refuse to do that is why many men these days have an issue with chivalry. Relationships are about two people and their needs and not about one catering fully to the other.

[Toucan_Pecan2]

Men want to be desired, as well.

 

What are you doing to make him feel wanted and desired? Are you dressing your best, are you giving him compliments, are you showing any intimacy in those dates?

 

Women that expect a man to "wine and dine" them, but don't make the same kind of effort towards the man are worthless.

 

What do you mean by 'showing any intimacy'?

Edited January 9, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Versacehottie]

I'm 500% on board with OP's desire that a man show effort.

 

In early days of dating and courting, the go-to way of showing effort is the man's willingness to plan a nice outing and pay. Most will agree that it's a good way to get the woman's attention, yes?

 

 

But we also know there are other ways to show effort. RR and her new guy, both put in time and effort to a date that was essentially free. My guy does little things like remembering my favorite fruit is mango and surprises me with them. If I'm in the shower, he has a fresh towel straight out of the dryer all warm and ready for me. A little thing, a little bit of effort, that took no money, but showed that my comfort and happiness is important to him. He didn't HAVE to warm up the towel for me. He could've just given me a regular towel and I never would've blinked an eye.

 

 

EFFORT. It's what really matters.

 

Yes in lieu of being creative about date planning, paying for it is often the way to tell that the guy is invested in being there.

[Versacehottie]

You can say its not about money, and then I can direct you to the very thread you want me to reread. You have more posts in this thread over the very thing you are trying to say its not about.

 

If its not about him paying for you... why is there an entire thread started and continued by you about him paying for you. I remember seeing less than 3 posts from you talking about the " real issue "

 

I have to say that regardless of the words and semantics, if you can understand that it's NOT about money even though money is involved, you may be able to understand the point that several of us are discussing. It's the fact that guys with an issue with it THINK it's about money and it exposes their motives and values and interest--that is the issue. It's about generosity of spirit. And someone who is dead set on always splitting in half and doing what is fair is always counting who owes what and those sort of values are the kind of things a girl is evaluating in order to see if she wants to move forward with you.

 

I saw the post you had where you prefaced your comments in opposition to OP by saying that you do pay on dates. So I'm wondering why you do when you feel so strongly that girls who feel like we do are trying to get something for nothing. Seriously I'm curious.

[Versacehottie]

Wow. this thread has turned into OP trying to justify herself to all the people who don't agree with her.

 

If you want him to pay for dates, tell him. Just be ready to deal with the consequences. He may not like your 'expectations'

 

 

In defense of OP, there are plenty of people who agree with her.

 

I agree with your second paragraph and I think if I've understood the gist of what she has posted, she is ready to deal with that. I don't know that it's 100% an absolute expectation. I think she has a desire that sometimes he would handle the dates in a different manner.

[Keenly]

I have to say that regardless of the words and semantics, if you can understand that it's NOT about money even though money is involved, you may be able to understand the point that several of us are discussing. It's the fact that guys with an issue with it THINK it's about money and it exposes their motives and values and interest--that is the issue. It's about generosity of spirit. And someone who is dead set on always splitting in half and doing what is fair is always counting who owes what and those sort of values are the kind of things a girl is evaluating in order to see if she wants to move forward with you.

 

I saw the post you had where you prefaced your comments in opposition to OP by saying that you do pay on dates. So I'm wondering why you do when you feel so strongly that girls who feel like we do are trying to get something for nothing. Seriously I'm curious.

 

I don't feel that girl that like to paid for are trying to get something for nothing. That doesn't bother me, as its the counterpart to me.

 

What does bother me are logical fallacies, unrealistically high expectations, contradictions,hypocrisies etc.

 

I can't figure out what this woman wants. She starts off withshe wants him to pay 100% because she seems to feel like this is the only way she can feel appreciated, and then later on she says that she isn't worried about that, thus contradicting herself. That's what is making my brain explode . If she wants a dude to pay all the time, I'm okay with that, but for the love of god ADMIT IT. Be honest with US and YOURSELF.

 

That's where I go crazy. Also, remember that most men who are " stingy " like thisare this way because some where along the line, some one they trusted took advantage of them and played them for a fool. No man wants to make that mistake twice. Just an explanation, not an excuse.

[Phoe]

Now that you know what happens, you can buy or make him a gift for his birthday instead next time, that way he can't wrestle you out.

 

My birthday gift to him didn't go too well either! haha.

 

 

I drove him down to Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World since he'd never been before. He was like a little kid in a candy shop, it was precious.

 

 

He'd gotten a bit fussy over his christmas presents, saying I'd spent too much, so for his birthday I figured taking him there would be good, but that I'd pay for dinner and I got him a gift card for bass pro shops so he could pick out anything he liked as he browsed around.

 

 

Well wouldn't you know it, when I went to buy a pair of hiking boots, he tried to make me use the gift card!!!! He said he would be much happier getting me something I needed than to buy something for himself. We argued for a good 20 minutes and he finally let me buy my own boots.

 

 

He STILL didn't want to buy anything for himself but finally agreed the gift card would be used well for him to pay for a hunting license.

 

 

Grrrr... this silly man.

[Els]

My birthday gift to him didn't go too well either! haha.

 

 

I drove him down to Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World since he'd never been before. He was like a little kid in a candy shop, it was precious.

 

 

He'd gotten a bit fussy over his christmas presents, saying I'd spent too much, so for his birthday I figured taking him there would be good, but that I'd pay for dinner and I got him a gift card for bass pro shops so he could pick out anything he liked as he browsed around.

 

 

Well wouldn't you know it, when I went to buy a pair of hiking boots, he tried to make me use the gift card!!!! He said he would be much happier getting me something I needed than to buy something for himself. We argued for a good 20 minutes and he finally let me buy my own boots.

 

 

He STILL didn't want to buy anything for himself but finally agreed the gift card would be used well for him to pay for a hunting license.

 

 

Grrrr... this silly man.

 

Haha! If I took my guy shopping and insisted he buy something, it would never work out. So I had to resort to actually buying something on the sly and wrapping it and hoping I'd chosen right.

 

I'm so glad you've found someone so compatible, Phoe. Really, that's all that matters - all talk of expectation and bickering about who does what really just flies out the window when two people really just want to make each other happy. And that is the best sort of R.

[Phoe]

Haha! If I took my guy shopping and insisted he buy something, it would never work out. So I had to resort to actually buying something on the sly and wrapping it and hoping I'd chosen right.

 

I'm so glad you've found someone so compatible, Phoe. Really, that's all that matters - all talk of expectation and bickering about who does what really just flies out the window when two people really just want to make each other happy. And that is the best sort of R.

 

Aww hehe, I bet you did an awesome job picking something out though! Man, buying presents is hard lol.

 

From now on, I am going to DO things for him and keep actual presents small. He appreciates me getting him cool things but just seems to be uncomfortable about it so I won't press it. Taking him places will be my preferred "gift", he likes going to new places he's never been to before.

 

 

Thanks Elswyth! Things are going so well, and I can't help but feel like this is where I'm supposed to be in life and who I'm supposed to be with. It all feels right and just clicks. We just got off Skype. He works in Nevada 4 days a week. He will be home tomorrow and I can't wait to smoooch his face off haha

[Versacehottie]

I don't feel that girl that like to paid for are trying to get something for nothing. That doesn't bother me, as its the counterpart to me.

 

What does bother me are logical fallacies, unrealistically high expectations, contradictions,hypocrisies etc.

 

I can't figure out what this woman wants. She starts off withshe wants him to pay 100% because she seems to feel like this is the only way she can feel appreciated, and then later on she says that she isn't worried about that, thus contradicting herself. That's what is making my brain explode . If she wants a dude to pay all the time, I'm okay with that, but for the love of god ADMIT IT. Be honest with US and YOURSELF.

 

That's where I go crazy. Also, remember that most men who are " stingy " like thisare this way because some where along the line, some one they trusted took advantage of them and played them for a fool. No man wants to make that mistake twice. Just an explanation, not an excuse.

 

I think you are being too hard on the OP, taking what she has said about wanting him to pay to mean 100% of the time and some air of entitlement. I don't think she meant that at all. It's when people have been attacking her about it that she is trying to give explanation for her POV. She has already been paying 100% of the time for her part and she still likes the guy a lot. I feel like she is at a crossroads where among his other issues this is the one where she was wondering if she is being too critical of him or out of line. That would make her more flexible about date-paying than a lot of women. I think she got reassurance from people who agreed with her inkling to where combined with the attacking she is trying to explain.

 

AND i 100% agree with you. Many times the guys who feel super strongly about this have most definitely been played! It sucks. I've seen many examples of this and to be honest, sometimes they have legitimately 1000% been taken to the cleaners. And other times it's just the way they view it now that their "financial investment" hasn't paid off and they are bitter. I don't feel sorry for those ones because as you said earlier they see it as a transaction. Ugh.

 

You still didn't answer why you pay? If you'd rather not say, that's fine. I just feel like perhaps we are all on the same side and your explanation might shed light on that. I understand completely that no ONE, including guys, wants to feel like he is being used as an ATM.

[Frank2thepoint]

I don't think people understand chivalry anymore and ya ppl are going to quote my original post bc perhaps it was worded incorrectly but honestly this thread is more about chivalry than money. And why is it such a big deal if I do expect a man to pay for my dinner on the first date(s)? Why is that seen as superficial?? what happened to wanting to take a woman out and being a gentleman? I really don't get why some ppl are so thrown by this idea? it doesn't show that you are rich or not and most women don't give a **** about that anyways bc we are all self-efficient and independent now. Ugh it really shows to me how dead chivalry really is!!!

 

Your views on chivalry and definition of a gentleman are warped. Your expectation of the man paying for dinner drives the manipulation and punishment that if a man does not automatically pay the full bill, he is dismissed as being lazy, wretched, and inconsiderate, with no chance of future dates.

 

 

And again I must reiterate money is not the issue here. I have buckets full lol. Is paying for a date one way I assess whether he is trying to be gentlemanly? Yes sure. In this case for me that's all I have to go on bc there hasn't been anything else I can use as an indicator.

 

So the guy asking you out, chatting with you, trying to genuinely get to know you, share some laughs, trying to build rapport have no value to you? Him paying the full bill is the only indicator on his intentions for you?

Edited January 9, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Grumpybutfun]

OP, your expectations are your own and there is no wrong answer. No one has to agree with you here because this is about your preferences. People have different expectations and your only responsibility is to be clear and concise about what you want and what behavior you find acceptable.

 

I am a traditional progressive so I like to be chivalrous and also believe in women being equal. I never really went out with feminists who objected to me opening doors or paying for dates as they wouldn't be attractive to my traditionalist ideologies. However, to each their own and I respect women's choice to pay for their own dates. I just never dated them.

 

Now I am married and my wife appreciates me placing her in the car and carrying her over mud puddles. She appreciates traditional values as this is how she was raised too.

 

There are expectations that we all have. The men here who likes to pay Dutch aren't wrong nor are you for your preferences. Just be clear and own them.

Best,

Grumps

Edited January 9, 2014 by Grumpybutfun

[Keenly]

I think you are being too hard on the OP, taking what she has said about wanting him to pay to mean 100% of the time and some air of entitlement. I don't think she meant that at all. It's when people have been attacking her about it that she is trying to give explanation for her POV. She has already been paying 100% of the time for her part and she still likes the guy a lot. I feel like she is at a crossroads where among his other issues this is the one where she was wondering if she is being too critical of him or out of line. That would make her more flexible about date-paying than a lot of women. I think she got reassurance from people who agreed with her inkling to where combined with the attacking she is trying to explain.

 

AND i 100% agree with you. Many times the guys who feel super strongly about this have most definitely been played! It sucks. I've seen many examples of this and to be honest, sometimes they have legitimately 1000% been taken to the cleaners. And other times it's just the way they view it now that their "financial investment" hasn't paid off and they are bitter. I don't feel sorry for those ones because as you said earlier they see it as a transaction. Ugh.

 

You still didn't answer why you pay? If you'd rather not say, that's fine. I just feel like perhaps we are all on the same side and your explanation might shed light on that. I understand completely that no ONE, including guys, wants to feel like he is being used as an ATM.

Apologies I missed that you asked WHY I pay. To be perfectly honest I have no answer to give you. Movies I guess ? I just have it burned into me that I'm supposed to ? I don't know where it came from, as I was never said down and told " okay young Patrick, make sure you pay on dates "

 

I can't tell you where it comes from, but i can tell you the will to maintain that standard is strong.

[Versacehottie]

Apologies I missed that you asked WHY I pay. To be perfectly honest I have no answer to give you. Movies I guess ? I just have it burned into me that I'm supposed to ? I don't know where it came from, as I was never said down and told " okay young Patrick, make sure you pay on dates "

 

I can't tell you where it comes from, but i can tell you the will to maintain that standard is strong.

 

I think we may have found common ground!! Just as you have had it burned into you, so have many women that a guy WHO LIKES YOU & has the capacity (not financial capacity) of a gentlemen to be caring will pay. i think all we are trying to do is explain the reason WHY we feel like this and how it makes us feel when guys do pay/don't pay/sometimes pay. Perhaps we all understand each other a little better?

[fujidabruin]

I'm impressed by generosity (among other things).

 

I am impressed with generosity of the HEART and ONES' TIME... not so much a big spender. Some people create a lot of expectations when finances are involved and things can get uncomfortable.

 

IMO, a guy who buys on their dates 100% of the time is either just insecure or expecting something for his investing. But, if he shows you generosity by making or taking time then the true character appears.

[fujidabruin]

Apologies I missed that you asked WHY I pay. To be perfectly honest I have no answer to give you. Movies I guess ? I just have it burned into me that I'm supposed to ? I don't know where it came from, as I was never said down and told " okay young Patrick, make sure you pay on dates "

 

I can't tell you where it comes from, but i can tell you the will to maintain that standard is strong.

 

This made me wonder if our upbringing/early family values steer our decisions about who pays? Never really considered before... interesting

[Leigh 87]

I think my bf is pretty crazy about me, and he told me from almost date ONE that he wanted a girl to be able to stand on her own two feet, and not take him for granted and just "assume" he would always pay. His ex did until after date 4 he said " how about you get out your wallet for a change":lmao:

 

 

He said he hates when women ASSUME a man will just get out his wallet EVERY TIME they dine out.

 

 

 

 

He does, however, still enjoy doing nice things for me/girls, and he does pay for some of our meals out or we just go dutch.

He ended up paying 15 bucks for our meal on date one, but we did rounds of drinks.

He explained his stance on paying for meals on date one, He said he doesn't pay for every date and expects me to be able to support myself and not take him for granted or use him for free meals.

Likewise, I too, told him my views on eating out; that I am a mature aged student right now, therefore I cannot afford to dine out; if he wants to eat at a café restaurant, he needs to do it in his own time or with his friends who have full time jobs and can afford it.

 

I also explained that I like generous men, and if a man earns a lot of money, I would expect a generous and well off man with a highly paid job to just pay for their date, since generosity is a HUGE virtue to me.

He agreed that if he was a loaded guy with a high paying job, that of course he would love to treat me to meals out more often and he wouldn't expect me, a student, to pay for meals if he was a high earner!!!

 

Since he is not loaded with cash or have a high paying job, he still loves to treat me to dinner once a week if we spent the 7 days together, as an example. Sometimes he pays two days in a row for our dinner out (then runs out of money and we scold each other for eating out too much:lmao:)

 

 

 

See, I needed to discus with him what his views were on paying for dates, as I want the guy I'm dating to have views and values that align with mine, before we push on with the dating process and I potentially have to compromise later down the line when it comes to finances.

 

 

 

He doesn't pay for every date we have gone out, however he has paid for some of our meals out, in fact an awful lot of them, but he expects me to be able to go dutch some of the time too, and I often have done.

I still believe he is into me and he likes me an awful lot for the small amount of time we have known each other because; he is thoughtful (sniffed over 8 perfumes and spent a lot of time in the perfume shop because he wanted to pick me "the best" perfume, texts and calls me every day just to touch base but often just to say hello because he wants to chat to me.

 

He wants to see me often, as much as he can.

 

He invited me to meet his friends and family after the first date (to his upcoming 30th, so I met them all about 3 weeks after I first met him)

 

 

 

 

As you can see, there is a whole host of other things BESIDES forking out cash for your dinners out, that a guy can do for you that shows you he is into you and that he could have genuinely strong feelings about you.