Am I insane for wanting to be wined and dined?

[soccerrprp]

Splitting the bill is giving equal surely, not less.

 

Keenly above summed up exactly how I feel. I like doing it as a gesture to show my interest, but do not like that it's a demanded expectation.

 

For the record a girl I had a first date with once offered to pay fully, as 'her treat' when we were planning it, we both ended up paying for different things on the day but that sure felt nice that she offered.

 

Traditionally speaking, the man pays. Feminism changed that. Many women still have traditional expectations and so do some men. The "less" I'm referring to is the balance of actions expected in a courtship. Today, many men use arguments in the wake of feminism to abdicate themselves from traditional courtship rituals, actions. That is what I mean by less, not monetary contribution to a meal.

 

I have never had any woman DEMAND. I have had most of the ladies offer, but I believe and continue to do so until we have become well known to one another, that the guy should pay. Of course, if the lady truly insists, I'm okay with that.

[Emilia]

My view is that the person who is better off should pay more but both should contribute.

[Emilia]

Any time a guy I was dating wanted to split the check from the get-go he was lazy in planning dates, wishy-washy about his feelings and tended to drift in and out of my life.

 

Every single time. It's not about the money, it's about their attitude toward the budding "r'ship" in general I feel that is reflected in their eagerness to please and impress. And the most common way men do this is treating a woman to dinner.

Please and impress? That's usually only good for getting you into bed. A buddig relationship is about building a connection and a rapport to see whether you are compatible long term. Not about pleasing and impressing.

[carhill]

My view is that the person who is better off should pay more but both should contribute.

As a discussion point, I think this has merit. Practically speaking though, IMO it's difficult to impossible to implement, except where people really know each other and their 'status' is well-known in the general sense. I can't think of one relationship, or my marriage, having those factors at the beginning.

 

Hence, I presumed my financial status was sufficient to fund early dating interactions and 'get to know'. End results varied markedly, indeed with some of the ladies being far higher on the W2 scale than myself, since that for me is a zero. Again, it's really hard to know, at least in my demographic, but a worthy consideration.

[Untouchable_Fire]

it's not the only thing that is a dealbreak tbh...there are other major things such as his addiction to porn and his ED issues lol. I really like him otherwise and feel like I've given it a good chance and maybe now I am finding other reasons to end things.

again thiough is not the money... I think chivalry is dead I can absolutely pay for my dinner his dinner the whole restaurant'a dinner if I wanted, but that one tiny gesture from a date that "I know you can pay, but I actually would like to treat you because I like you" says a lot I think to women or some women. It's just nice to be wined and dined and made to feel special. It's not about how much money he spends on me.

 

ED is easy to cure, but porn addictions can be a big issue. Much bigger than paying for dates.

 

Chivalry is what 14th century? I have never met any women who conform to 14th century gender standards. The fact that this is a bigger issue for you than the sexual problems comes across as shallow and silly.

[Emilia]

As a discussion point, I think this has merit. Practically speaking though, IMO it's difficult to impossible to implement, except where people really know each other and their 'status' is well-known in the general sense. I can't think of one relationship, or my marriage, having those factors at the beginning.

 

Hence, I presumed my financial status was sufficient to fund early dating interactions and 'get to know'. End results varied markedly, indeed with some of the ladies being far higher on the W2 scale than myself, since that for me is a zero. Again, it's really hard to know, at least in my demographic, but a worthy consideration.

In the beginning I very much believe in 50-50. Partly because I think it's practical to do things that both parties can afford, at least for themselves. Then as you get to know each other the dynamic changes.

[clia]

Any time a guy I was dating wanted to split the check from the get-go he was lazy in planning dates, wishy-washy about his feelings and tended to drift in and out of my life.

 

Every single time. It's not about the money, it's about their attitude toward the budding "r'ship" in general I feel that is reflected in their eagerness to please and impress. And the most common way men do this is treating a woman to dinner.

 

I agree with this.

 

I can't think of anything less romantic than going Dutch on a date. You split the bill when you are with friends, not with a date.

[Emilia]

Not true. My ex of four years never let me pay. Ever, even though I offered.

 

He was a gentleman in every true sense of the word.

 

Like I said - it's NOT about the amount of money a guy spends. But buying dinner is the most COMMON way a guy likes to make a girl he really likes feel special. If he picked me up and took me to a free concert in the park, that would be awesome, too. But let's face it, so many guys don't plan dates like that. They ask you out to eat.

I'm glad your ex was a gentleman but 'please and impress' aren't really usually what make a good long term relationship.

 

I go on plenty of dates that are not dinner related but then again I suggest when I want to do something or if I'd rather go somewhere else than a restaurant. It takes two to tango.

[Emilia]

I think some women just have different needs. One of mine is to be actively pursued.

 

All of my long-term relationships started out with a man who made no bones about courting me, the old-fashioned way. And I love it.

Yes, different strokes.

[Philosoraptor]

Please and impress? That's usually only good for getting you into bed. A buddig relationship is about building a connection and a rapport to see whether you are compatible long term. Not about pleasing and impressing.

I wait until getting into bed before I show them how well I please and impress

 

Not true. My ex of four years never let me pay. Ever, even though I offered.

 

He was a gentleman in every true sense of the word.

 

Like I said - it's NOT about the amount of money a guy spends. But buying dinner is the most COMMON way a guy likes to make a girl he really likes feel special. If he picked me up and took me to a free concert in the park, that would be awesome, too. But let's face it, so many guys don't plan dates like that. They ask you out to eat.

I disagree that it's the most common way. It's actually the most boring way. Why would doing something that everyone else lazily does make it special?

 

If one wants to plan a special date they need to take what they know about the person and use that to plan a date.

[Emilia]

I wait until getting into bed before I show them how well I please and impress

I certainly won't argue with that kind of pleasing

[carhill]

In the beginning I very much believe in 50-50. Partly because I think it's practical to do things that both parties can afford, at least for themselves. Then as you get to know each other the dynamic changes.

I also believed in 50-50 in the beginning (of dating experiences), having been socialized by a like-minded woman, but found that method to be poorly received in my demographic, at least if presented transparently. I think it had more to do with supply and demand than a particular philosophy, with demand imputing a more unbalanced prerogative by those in demand, women in my case. If other men would 'pay their way', that had no interest in 'the 50-50 guy'.

 

It was pretty much the after same splitting up with my exW, though I did note a few women offering, which none had done prior. Perhaps that's age or times changing, IDK. Perhaps that's the impetus for my response regarding the OP and her date being incompatible. That's not an indictment of either person. They want what they want and I think those wants are reasonable and appropriate, just different.

[Versacehottie]

The "less" I'm referring to is the balance of actions expected in a courtship. Today, many men use arguments in the wake of feminism to abdicate themselves from traditional courtship rituals, actions. That is what I mean by less, not monetary contribution to a meal.

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly. I think many guys who use these excuses in regards to initiating contact and paying etc want ALL the benefits of being a guy but not the responsibility. They used changing gender roles for their convenience not because they believe them deep inside...and then get bent out of shape when it doesn't benefit them. It's a cop out. They have no problem rising to the occasion when they believe the girl is worth it or it's the only way she will accept them in her life.

 

The ones that do believe in gender equality in dating are truly the exception and it's EASY to tell who they are because it's echo'd in everything else that they are and do. The ones that use it as an excuse either don't like you that much or are wimping out due to some issues that have to do with their outlook on life, which also is a red flag for a productive relationship.

 

For OP, at the very least your guy and your views on dating are different enough on some major things that I wouldn't consider moving forward. Most of the time as things go forward he's going to GIVE less (in all areas). If this is what he gives now, the future does not look bright.

[Babolat]

Chivalry, a word most men these days, I have discovered from talking to woman and dating, have no idea what it means.

 

Old fashioned, same thing. That's who I am.

 

Both are natural for me, it's the way I was raised.

 

I always open the car door, all doors, etc. I thought it was adorable when my ex gf started to open my drivers door for me, from withinside the car, as I walked around to get in after opening and closing her door. She always tried to time it just right so the door would not close back on her. Small thing, but it meant a lot.

 

This weekend, I bumped into a glass plate, it fell, shatterred on the wooden floor, and she came running in with the broom and dust pan to help clean up. Small things, as she was busy working on something somewhere else in the house, yet cared enough to stop and run in to help me.

 

I am both, and exhibit both, with all woman (my mom and sisters included), and even more so when I am interested in a woman. And yes, persue them versus sit in the back seat and "let them drive". If I am interested, I show it. I plan, I do things for them, I am "actively present".

 

And wait, he has a porn and addiction and ED (I have not read the entire thread)? How does that work...just curious....

 

How old is he, you?

Edited January 8, 2014 by Babolat

[Philosoraptor]

That would be nice!

 

But I honestly can't remember the last time a guy planned anything other than dinner. A movie maybe.

Stop dating lazy guys then?

 

So many options out there cheaper than dinner dates. Zoos, aquariums, parks, fairs, and groupon has a lot of good deals guys can use to impress for cheap.

 

I take notes in my phone about what my now fiancee likes and never have to ask her where she wants to go or what she wants for Christmas/Birthday/etc. Most people mention little things all the time about what they enjoy... just have to pay attention.

 

Not sure why so many guys have this obsession with dinner and a movie. How about ziplining and a cooler full of sandwiches?

[tricolors]

Personally? I would always buy on the first date, if I'm really into the person.

 

With those of you who do the whole disposable, weekly dating thing with new people constantly from online, maybe things are different, but I've never done that. If I were with someone new constantly, I wouldn't want to spend a lot, but I don't go on first dates very often and tend to meet people organically I'm already into.

[Eggplant]

The moment you slept with him, you communicated to him that he was doing enough and you were happy.

[GemmaUK]

Crikey!

 

Give me a man who will be happy for me to pay my share! Or if he buys dinner I buy the drinks! That's my view!

 

I was with a lovely guy for 14 years fron when I was a week off 23 years old.

We always split the bill, split all bills actually.

One thing was that I did like when we went on holiday that he have all teh spending money (mine and his) and when we were out and about he woudl pay for whatever - that was a holiday treat kind of thing and I asked if he would look after all my spending money too.

We would split whatever was left over when we got back home.

 

I've only been treated to meals out and offers of covering expenses for things by one man - that man turned out to be a serious control freak and emotionally abusive.

It took me four months to get out of a seven month relationship with him.

 

I've also been reading up a lot on controlling behaviours and insisiting on paying for meals is one of them to notice in the beginning.

 

Also, if you are offering (as you have said) then you can't argue with him accepting that.

If you wish to then just leave your purse at home or alternatively let the guy go so he can date someone who appreciates him for more than buying dinner (and is thinking of dumping him if he doesn't).

[Arieswoman]

there are other major things such as his addiction to porn and his ED issues lol.

 

Forget who pays for what, those ^^^^^^^ are the deal-breakers IMO

[Eau Claire]

I always assume a man will offer to pay for everything. I expect a mature, responsible man to be financially secure.

 

THEN, I can politely decline and pay my share if appropriate, buy concert tickets, etc.

 

I have always been financially responsible and want my daughter to date a man over the age of 18 who was also responsible. Responsible is the 20 year old student who goes to the grocery store, spends $5 on bread and cheese for a picnic....and walks 2 miles to save bus fare to meet his date. When this same man is 30 years old he will be more than able to take his date to a dinner and a play.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Eau Claire

[Untouchable_Fire]

Forget who pays for what, those ^^^^^^^ are the deal-breakers IMO

 

Not when money is all you care about.

[somedude81]

It's my the amount of money he spends on me that bothers me. it's the lack of the gesture. As someone mentioned above he could have bought me a $3 Icecream and that would have been great. The fact that he continuously expects me to split the bill and one time I even offered to pay for the entire meal (hopefully hinting to him that it's a nice gesture)...

 

Another time he paid for my meal and when I offered money he said "you can buy me a drink".

 

It's really not about the money it's the gesture..

 

Then tell him.

 

If you don't care about how much the thing is then I see no problem with him treating you.

 

BTW, have you treated him for anything yet? Offered to buy coffee for the both of you, stuff like that?

[somedude81]

I always assume a man will offer to pay for everything. I expect a mature, responsible man to be financially secure.

 

THEN,.

 

THEN you better be prepared to show him your thanks.

 

In other words, if a woman expects me to pay for everything, then I would expect sex in return.

 

Which of course is nothing more than legal prostitution.

[Frank2thepoint]

I wouldn't personally consider it a deal-breaker, but it does somewhat take away from the feeling of romance to split the bill, I agree.

 

What does splitting the bill have to do with romance?

[nomadic_butterfly]

I guess that's where my issue lies. I understand that it can be expensive for guys to date in the way that I would like to date, but it shows a bit of "I really like you!" And is so romantic and shows to me that not only does he like me and wants to show me a good time but that he wants ME to like him.

 

Based on your explanation to me it seems like he isn't that into me, which is not what I want at all.

 

Also we've been now on 5 dates and all of them we have split the bill. So it isn't just a first date thing.

 

As for ending things I will just tell him I like to be wined and dined and perhaps we're not on the same page dating wise which also says to me we may not be on the same page relationship wise.

 

what does everyone else think?

 

Hmmm...I've only dated one guy in my life that had qualms with paying for a first date at a PIZZERIA after bragging (without me asking) about his empire state apartment which is pays $5000 a month yet when we went for pizza, he said he wasn't hungry when the cashier ask "will the two of you be together" and when I paid for my pizza he suddenly "became hungry" and promptly ordered and paid separately. Keep in mind I was also a student. If I were digging for gold after his "revelation" of his high paying job and expensive apartment he forced me to see, definitely wouldn't have chosen a pizzeria as a date choice.

 

I think you should say something from now to know how you feel about this. Explore his views. I think the precedent should be set at the very beginning and I usually ask men how they view "the role of a man and role of a woman" in a relationship/courtship. To me, there's isn't necessarily a right or wrong; just different strokes work for different folks. I am old school and the men I date are too so it works well for me usually in that regard. I personally would rather date a man where we alternated paying for checks than always wanting to go dutch. More often than not these type of men are always tit for tat with everything, even asking for everything they may have gotten during the course of a relationship back should it not work out.