Am I insane for wanting to be wined and dined?

[chicaboom]

Will you post an update after you tell him that you can no longer see him because he doesn't pay for stuff? Curious to hear his reaction.

 

I think you missed the point of the thread. Again, it's not bc he doesn't pay for our dates, although that is how I phrased it. It's about him not disaying the amount of effort I would like to see in the initial stages of dating. if he had offered to pick me up (we live 20 mins away) or planned a day in the park (cost:zero dollars) that would have been amazing. It's really not about the money.

[RedRobin]

Ya seems like I should probably get out while I can maybe. It such a shame bc I do care for him. It's just a bit overwhelming.

 

And maybe I was secretly hoping someone could convince me that splitting the bill on dates (lack of a lot of effort) is not so bad, but reading about how that other users FIRST date went makes me feel like I deserve that!

 

 

Well, don't compare to me. I rarely agree to meet anyone for a date unless I feel there is something significant worth exploring more.

 

 

By the time we'd met, we had emailed a fair amount beforehand and had talked on the phone a couple of times too. Turns out that he and I grew up in the same area in FL and share a lot of unusual, hard to find interests you don't find in the avg Upstate New Yorker.

 

 

Not to mention, he claims to be looking for a relationship and doesn't sound wishy-washy about finding someone to share his life with. (we'll see about THAT though, lol)

 

 

So, my style is totally different than a lot of people's. I expect a man who is looking for a serious relationship is going to be putting in effort.... just like I am. Notice too, that I'm giving what I expect to receive in return. Not quid pro quo or anything like that... just with intention and interest.

 

 

If you aren't putting in effort, you can't expect it to be reciprocated. What have you done to show interest in him?

[MrCastle]

I think you missed the point of the thread. Again, it's not bc he doesn't pay for our dates, although that is how I phrased it. It's about him not disaying the amount of effort I would like to see in the initial stages of dating. if he had offered to pick me up (we live 20 mins away) or planned a day in the park (cost:zero dollars) that would have been amazing. It's really not about the money.

 

I've just started seeing someone and I really like him, but I am extremely annoyed with the fact that he has never actually paid entirely for any of our dates, and didn't come and pick me up during our last date.

 

Before you attack me, let me say that we always split the bills on the date, and I don't really mind, but in the beginning I guess I would like some romance and chivalry...is it crazy for me to want him to take me out-in all sense of the phrase (e.g., pick me up, pay for dinner) essentially wine and dine me!!!

I know people will post about gender equality and feminist movement..which I am all for, but I don't think chivalry and feminism have to be in contention with one another. To me, they are completely different things.

 

I feel a bit shallow about this but it does bother me. I am of the mindset that if I guy really likes you and wants you he will go to the moon and back, or just pay for dinner the first few times. Not even our first date did he do that, we split the bill!

 

Is this dump worthy???

 

It is about the money. Yeah, you mentioned not being picked up as well, but the overriding theme is money. My guess is, because of some of the responses in this thread, you want to scale back on the money thing now, and focus more on the not being picked up/his porn addiction/his ED because you don't want to come off as a gold digger. Almost backtracking in a sense.

 

But the money thing is what's bothering you, probably more than it should be. And you realize it too, which is why you openly admit to feeling shallow about it and questioning if you're crazy for feeling the way you do. You would not have started this thread if it wasn't an issue. And I'm not even looking into things or making assumptions, I'm simply reading what you're posting.

 

If the fact that this guy doesn't pay for your dates bothers you that much, then stop dating him, although I would advise you don't cite that as the actual reason you no longer want to see him when you give him his walking papers.

[RedRobin]

...was going to add that I haven't read your other thread so I don't know how much effort you've put into this already....

 

 

If you feel you've been putting in effort, and it is not being reciprocated in some way, then yes, it's time to cut things off.

[chicaboom]

It is about the money. Yeah, you mentioned not being picked up as well, but the overriding theme is money. My guess is, because of some of the responses in this thread, you want to scale back on the money thing now, and focus more on the not being picked up/his porn addiction/his ED because you don't want to come off as a gold digger. Almost backtracking in a sense.

 

But the money thing is what's bothering you, probably more than it should be. And you realize it too, which is why you openly admit to feeling shallow about it and questioning if you're crazy for feeling the way you do. You would not have started this thread if it wasn't an issue. And I'm not even looking into things or making assumptions, I'm simply reading what you're posting.

 

If the fact that this guy doesn't pay for your dates bothers you that much, then stop dating him, although I would advise you don't cite that as the actual reason you no longer want to see him when you give him his walking papers.

 

I guess I focus on him not paying for dates, or money bc that is the only way that I can gauge effort level in our dates. That is, I can't gauge is effort/chivalrous behaviour in any other way other than paying for dates or picking me up because THERE IS NO other way he has shown me by which I can gauge it. that is, there has been minimal effort

 

Of course I feel ashamed bc I know that I am not that person, but actually explaining this to you has made me see that the only reason I was so focused on whether or not he paid on our date was because I have nothing else to say by way of how else he has shown his romantic side, level of serious interest etc. I can honestly say there hasn't been anything other than texting and asking me out.

 

I am not a gold digger. I am actually very wealthy myself. And effort on my part towards him has been shown in ways such as trying to help him deal with his addictik and ED by doing research with and without him, showing him things I've found and being understanding to his problem.

 

Thanks everyone I think I unfortunately have the answer I needed to hear:(

[Els]

As a related note, why are some types of superficial/shallow preferences considered more acceptable than the thread topic? It seems fine to exclude people due to age, height, body shape, hair length or color, muscles or lack thereof, style of dress, body hair or lack thereof, etc, based on lack of attraction. Why is someone excluding a man for splitting the bill any worse than any of the above? To me the OP's question is the same as 'Am I insane for preferring a shaved pussy?'.

 

Sure, someone treating you to dinner doesn't compare to the Really Important Stuff like compatible mindsets, values, love, loyalty, etc, but neither does any of the above. We all have our own superficial preferences.

[MrCastle]

I guess I focus on him not paying for dates, or money bc that is the only way that I can gauge effort level in our dates. That is, I can't gauge is effort/chivalrous behaviour in any other way other than paying for dates or picking me up because THERE IS NO other way he has shown me by which I can gauge it. that is, there has been minimal effort

 

Of course I feel ashamed bc I know that I am not that person, but actually explaining this to you has made me see that the only reason I was so focused on whether or not he paid on our date was because I have nothing else to say by way of how else he has shown his romantic side, level of serious interest etc. I can honestly say there hasn't been anything other than texting and asking me out.

 

I am not a gold digger. I am actually very wealthy myself. And effort on my part towards him has been shown in ways such as trying to help him deal with his addictik and ED by doing research with and without him, showing him things I've found and being understanding to his problem.

 

Thanks everyone I think I unfortunately have the answer I needed to hear:(

 

Then that's a whole different thread. "Not sure he is fully interested in me," followed by the reasons you feel he isn't interested in you.

 

That is a legitimate concern and if there are several reasons for feeling that way, that's different.

 

But your OP and some of the posts following felt like you were trying to find a PC way of saying you want to dump this guy because he isn't paying for dates and is instead, going halves.

[StanMusial]

The guy is lazy and cheap. Hell even his pecker is lazy. Not sure why you like him at all.

[Emilia]

As a related note, why are some types of superficial/shallow preferences considered more acceptable than the thread topic? It seems fine to exclude people due to age, height, body shape, hair length or color, muscles or lack thereof, style of dress, body hair or lack thereof, etc, based on lack of attraction. Why is someone excluding a man for splitting the bill any worse than any of the above? To me the OP's question is the same as 'Am I insane for preferring a shaved pussy?'.

 

Sure, someone treating you to dinner doesn't compare to the Really Important Stuff like compatible mindsets, values, love, loyalty, etc, but neither does any of the above. We all have our own superficial preferences.

I don't think physical attraction can be classed as a superficial preference. I think most of us who have been in loving relationships recognise that we feel sexually attracted to some people while others leave us cold. I happen to quite like short guys but don't like overweight ones. Also don't tend to find men who are much older than me attractive.

 

However I won't base someone's character, emotions and personality on how much he is willing to splash his money around. I suppose partly because I have learned over the years that good guys don't tend to try to buy your affection. I also dislike what that says about some women: the fact that they don't feel the importance of being empowered and financially independent.

 

I think placing significance on affluence is superficial while biological attraction isn't.

[Els]

I don't think physical attraction can be classed as a superficial preference. I think most of us who have been in loving relationships recognise that we feel sexually attracted to some people while others leave us cold. I happen to quite like short guys but don't like overweight ones. Also don't tend to find men who are much older than me attractive.

 

Yes, but what if chivalry (including paying for first dates) is part of what innately makes someone feel attracted? .

 

However I won't base someone's character, emotions and personality on how much he is willing to splash his money around.

Agreed.

 

I suppose partly because I have learned over the years that good guys don't tend to try to buy your affection. I also dislike what that says about some women: the fact that they don't feel the importance of being empowered and financially independent.

I don't think desiring to be treated is necessarily related to lack of financial independence or empowerment, any more than a man who desires a sexily-dressed woman is objectifying women (common argument in militant feminist circles, ick).

[Emilia]

Yes, but what if chivalry (including paying for first dates) is part of what innately makes someone feel attracted? .

Well this guy did pay, she offered to share the cost and he accepted the offer (telling her she could get him a drink) because he took her words at face value. There is nothing wrong with expecting a bit of chivalry and I like that too, it can take many forms. However it seems to me the OP expected almost unreserved generosity (a guy repeatedly turning down offers of pay) because it seems she values it as an expression of interest. That's a strange value system in my eyes.

I don't think desiring to be treated is necessarily related to lack of financial independence, any more than a man who desires a sexily-dressed woman is objectifying women (common argument in militant feminist circles, ick).

I think it's how much importance you place on being treated and at what stage is what matters. Same for a sexily dressed woman too, I went out with a man recently who was very hung up on that, not quite as a fetish but close (wasn't obvious before we started dating) and I would say it felt very much the same as if he had dated me for my money: he wasn't seeing me for me.

[Els]

Well this guy did pay, she offered to share the cost and he accepted the offer (telling her she could get him a drink) because he took her words at face value. There is nothing wrong with expecting a bit of chivalry and I like that too, it can take many forms. However it seems to me the OP expected almost unreserved generosity (a guy repeatedly turning down offers of pay) because it seems she values it as an expression of interest. That's a strange value system in my eyes.

 

Ah, okay, I get that now. Thanks for clarifying.

 

To be honest, it wasn't mainly your posts that I was addressing in my first post, though. It has been a common trend in LS to demonize women who express any sort of preference for being treated, while encouraging other non-personality-related preferences. The whole 'who pays' thing seems to be a hot-button issue here, and I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out why.

 

I think it's how much importance you place on being treated and at what stage is what matters. Same for a sexily dressed woman too, I went out with a man recently who was very hung up on that, not quite as a fetish but close (wasn't obvious before we started dating) and I would say it felt very much the same as if he had dated me for my money: he wasn't seeing me for me.

 

Oh, agreed, too.

[Emilia]

To be honest, it wasn't mainly your posts that I was addressing in my first post, though. It has been a common trend in LS to demonize women who express any sort of preference for being treated, while encouraging other non-personality-related preferences. The whole 'who pays' thing seems to be a hot-button issue here, and I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out why.

Ah! Those posts are made by guys who don't have any money.

[Babolat]

Guy here, I pay for everything in the beginning and all the way thru. At some point, if they offer, I may accept, or, for a dinner let them get the tip maybe. And, as the relationship advances, yeah, the dynamic of "who pays" does change a little. As you become partners in the relationship.

 

If I am doing the 1/2 1/2, then, I'm not into the woman. Even with the woman I refer to as my FWB on LS, I always paid when we went out. She always offered, sometimes insisted to pay her 1/2, and sometimes I let her, but, I always tried to pay.

 

And, it's not about finances either. If he wants to date you, really date you, he will find ways to show that, and not necessarily with expensive dinners, meals, going out.

[carhill]

Is this dump worthy???

 

Skimmed the thread and my impression is that, if there's this much accounting going on this early, I wouldn't use the phrase 'dump-worthy' rather 'incompatible'. It sounds like two good people on a different wavelength. There's a lot of that in life. No harm, no foul, you had a relatively good time, move on to the next deal.

[Els]

Ah! Those posts are made by guys who don't have any money.

 

Oh, you.

 

Guy here, I pay for everything in the beginning and all the way thru. At some point, if they offer, I may accept, or, for a dinner let them get the tip maybe. And, as the relationship advances, yeah, the dynamic of "who pays" does change a little. As you become partners in the relationship.

 

If I am doing the 1/2 1/2, then, I'm not into the woman. Even with the woman I refer to as my FWB on LS, I always paid when we went out. She always offered, sometimes insisted to pay her 1/2, and sometimes I let her, but, I always tried to pay.

 

And, it's not about finances either. If he wants to date you, really date you, he will find ways to show that, and not necessarily with expensive dinners, meals, going out.

 

Yes, the bolded. I guess I've just never understood why couples would literally split bills down the middle like platonic friends. At the very least, if one desires a completely egalitarian relationship, take turns treating each other or something.

 

But that's just me.

[Babolat]

OP, I tell men I date that I prefer if we find things that are cheap or free to do while we are getting to know each other.

 

 

I've never made a man's willingness to pay for me a dealbreaker...

 

 

I'm more interested in the care he takes in planning a date, how attentive he is in that date and subsequent dates, and our mutual rapport.

 

 

I just started OLD again and met someone for the first time last weekend. We met at the local state park to do some snowshoeing and ice skating. Without telling me in advance, he got there early and scoped out the conditions and the best place for skating (there are two rinks). He had brought lawn chairs, and set them up for us. We had a really good time.

 

 

Cost = $0 (although we did go to Wendy's afterward since I was starving... I'd also ran 10 miles with my running group that morning!). Yes, I pulled out my wallet when I ordered, but he insisted on paying for my salad and cup of chili, haha.

 

 

My advice? loosen up. There are lots of things to do that require effort that are cheap or free... and say a lot more about him as a person than plunking down $$ on someone he hardly knows.

 

 

I wouldn't do it... so I can't expect guys to do it either...

 

 

Oh, and what did I bring to the table, you may ask? I rode the bus the hour it took to get there... and brought some chocolate covered bacon and salted caramel/dark chocolate I'd made special the night before. Yes, I said chocolate covered bacon. It's amazing!

 

This, is what I was trying to say with my last comment...well said RR.

[Emilia]

Yes, the bolded. I guess I've just never understood why couples would literally split bills down the middle like platonic friends. At the very least, if one desires a completely egalitarian relationship, take turns treating each other or something.

 

But that's just me.

I do that when we are in a secure relationship (ie we can see the long term potential and act like it). Until then it's 50-50.

[d0nnivain]

chicaboom

 

 

This relationship is too much effort for not enough return at this early point. the beginning is supposed to be easier. As carhill mentioned, you may be incompatible. Any 1 of the 3 issues could be worked around but all 3. . . . why bother?

 

 

As for the paying / not paying. . . you can't really measure interest on $$ alone but you can (& should) measure the effort & the gestures. Is your date doing other chivalrous things like opening doors, pulling out your chair or helping you on with your coat? Did you see any planning / creativity like the park skating / snowshoe date?

 

 

I'm pretty old fashioned when it comes to dating & while I always offered to split the check on a 1st date, I was never happy when my offer was accepted. However, if there was a part 2 to the 1st date . . . dinner & a movie, I would always pay for the 2nd part.

 

 

If I liked a guy who accepted my offer to split the check on the 1st date & I really liked him, despite my preference that he not do that, I would make sure to cover the whole 2nd check & then wait to see what happened on the 3rd date. . . sort of a lead by example thing. Talking about money is a very delicate issue & not something I really want to do early on. If the guy didn't pick up the whole 3rd check, I could already tell we'd have conflicting views about money & spending, which would eventually cause irreparable friction in a relationship & there wouldn't be a 4th date.

 

 

If I didn't like the guy, I pay for the 1st date just to make it super clear that I wasn't going to be beholden to the other person.

[bene]

I am not a gold digger but prefer not to talk about money in early dating phase at all and let the guy pick up the tab. It just isn't very romantic to start fussing with coins and talking about the money (and it will be an entire conversation, me offering to pay, the guy politely turning down etc).

 

That said, I never want the first dates to be expensive. A coffee or glass of wine in a nice cafe or ice cream on the beach is more than enough. It is more of a gentelmanly gesture than some sort of monetary gain for me. I don't date high school guys who don't have their own money and it shouldn't be a problem for a guy in his thirties (my age). I wouldn't let anyone spend large amount of money on me if I don't know him well, it is just uncomfortable.

 

I definitely split the bill if I don't view meeting with a guy as a date at all.

[mikecr50]

I've thought about this for a bit and I have always paid on dates especially first dates, I just never thought of it. But I can see how it would show interest in a sense as part of chivalry- which is good! Obviously this particular guy is interested in op-but how? or as what? And why does he not understand the proper social constrict?

[Versacehottie]

OP, I think you should cut him loose. It's not a golddigger thing at all. After all, you have been paying your own way for 5 dates. However, I think that a guy who CAN GET AWAY WITH THIS UPFRONT has no reason to be more chivalrous. NO WAY! Look at it like this:

 

a) if he knows that he should treat, but willing to accept that you will split bill with him, he's already taking advantage and not THAT worried about how you will view HIS character. Speaks to his interest level in you.

 

b) if he honestly believes that you should split the bills, this relationship is going to suck beyond issues such as money. I have seen it in other people's relationships enough times, guys that are stingy with money & calculating everything, whether it's to be "fair" or get a leg up are stingy and difficult with a load of other things--MOST EVERYTHING! It speaks to how they function in life. Actually it applies to both guys and girls. Stingy girls suck too.

 

DuMP HIM!

[soccerrprp]

I've just started seeing someone and I really like him, but I am extremely annoyed with the fact that he has never actually paid entirely for any of our dates, and didn't come and pick me up during our last date.

 

Before you attack me, let me say that we always split the bills on the date, and I don't really mind, but in the beginning I guess I would like some romance and chivalry...is it crazy for me to want him to take me out-in all sense of the phrase (e.g., pick me up, pay for dinner) essentially wine and dine me!!!

 

I know people will post about gender equality and feminist movement..which I am all for, but I don't think chivalry and feminism have to be in contention with one another. To me, they are completely different things.

 

I feel a bit shallow about this but it does bother me. I am of the mindset that if I guy really likes you and wants you he will go to the moon and back, or just pay for dinner the first few times. Not even our first date did he do that, we split the bill!

 

Is this dump worthy???

 

No, you are NOT insane. We live in a post-feminist era where women want more (too much by some) and where SOME men use it (feminism) as an excuse to give less.

[Keenly]

Ah, okay, I get that now. Thanks for clarifying.

 

To be honest, it wasn't mainly your posts that I was addressing in my first post, though. It has been a common trend in LS to demonize women who express any sort of preference for being treated, while encouraging other non-personality-related preferences. The whole 'who pays' thing seems to be a hot-button issue here, and I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out why.

 

 

 

Oh, agreed, too.

 

I think its just an entitlement issue.

 

 

I'm all for paying for a date I'm having a good time on. However, when me paying shifts from a nice chivalrous gesture into a demanded expectation, that's when guys go " seriously? "

[Yur]

No, you are NOT insane. We live in a post-feminist era where women want more (too much by some) and where SOME men use it (feminism) as an excuse to give less.

 

Splitting the bill is giving equal surely, not less.

 

Keenly above summed up exactly how I feel. I like doing it as a gesture to show my interest, but do not like that it's a demanded expectation.

 

For the record a girl I had a first date with once offered to pay fully, as 'her treat' when we were planning it, we both ended up paying for different things on the day but that sure felt nice that she offered.