Am I insane for wanting to be wined and dined?

January 10, 2014

Your post is confusing - I still question your use of "deserve" above. You say they "deserve" "action or attention." That's exactly what I said - dating/access to genitals. Why does anyone "deserve" that for being nice?

Yes, that got to me also.

Nobody deserves my attention. Nobody deserves to touch my body. No man is entitled to anything from me. I am the one who decides. I willingly give myself to my guy because I love him.

January 10, 2014

Reading comprehension. Try it.

In meantime, stop trying to insert sex into what i said. Misconstruing everything to push your agenda. It's obvious you don't understand what I said and we are talking about two different things. It's annoying that you are trying to turn this into an argument over something it wasn't even about. I believe you are talking about GUYS EXPECTATIONS/ENTITLEMENT DURING DATING whereas i was responding to Woggle's comment about GUYS ACTUAL SUCCESS WITH DATING.

None of my posts has ever been of the opinion that you are trying to claim I have. That is not my opinion. It's offensive that you are trying to suggest that it is.

January 10, 2014

If I ask a woman to go out with me. I'm asking her to join me in a evening and if it's dinner or a movie or anything else. I asked her so in my opinion I pay for it.

Now I'm old so maybe my ways of doing things are out of date but that's the way it is.

I once asked a woman to come to my house and I made her dinner since I love to cook.

She showed up and she bought me a huge yellow rose and a box of chocolate covered strawberries that were the size of my fist and gave them to me. This never happened to me before and I didn't know what to do because it was something that I would do so the shoe was on the other foot.

After a few very long seconds, I finally said to myself, "tell her thank you!' "tell her thank you!" I did and I was floored over this. Never happened to me before.

January 10, 2014

Yes, that got to me also.

Nobody deserves my attention. Nobody deserves to touch my body. No man is entitled to anything from me. I am the one who decides. I willingly give myself to my guy because I love him.

I agree but at the same time no woman is entitled to my money and generosity. It is a two way street.

January 10, 2014

I just said I did in the thread above... Stop playing dumb.

You understand what pushes them to that point. Really?

Then I guess it shouldn't be difficult at all to understand what pushed your ex wife to cheat on you.

The fact that you can extend empathy and sanction to men hurting women, but not sanction to women hurting men is where your personal issues stand out the most.

There is another thread talking about so called 'good guys'. If being 'good' is nothing more than manipulation to get sex... that's hardly considered 'good'. Anyway, some of you are just so wrapped up in your own personal pain, that it never occurs to you that everyone gets hurt in life. Everyone who tries to love and genuinely care for someone is going to get hurt.

Cheating and playing are two very different things. I have shunned friends for cheating as well but the women my friends mess with are more willing participants rather than victims. Most women involved in casual and FWB situations are willing participants.

January 10, 2014

This whole thing is making me feel yucky. Do men really equate money and access to your body on the same wavelength?

Do women really equate spending money on them with attention / interest?

January 10, 2014

This whole thing is making me feel yucky. Do men really equate money and access to your body on the same wavelength?

I think only men who have a problem with picking up the tab see it this way. And TBH, I also think it's a self-serving equivalence made not because these men actually think these things are on the same wave-length, but because these men feel injured by the dating process in some way.

I think it's basically one of those self-defeating narratives that some men tell themselves when they're frustrated.

At least I hope that's what it boils down to. I don't want to think there are men out there that think that when they treat to dinner, they're actually purchasing pussy.

January 10, 2014

Leaving the sex out of it she said that no man is entitled to her attention. Attention does not have to be sexual and I have never expected sex by paying for dinner.

In a way attention and treating to a meal are similiar. Men have the right to decide who we want to share our resources with and who we don't just like women. I go to work and earn my money plus I made a killing with smart investments. I don't owe anybody a dime of that except uncle sam and the bill collectors which I always pay on time. If I share that with anybody else it is a privilege.

What is so wrong with thinking like that. Money is not an infinite resource so choosing who I want to share it with is just smart.

January 10, 2014

What is so wrong with thinking like that. Money is not an infinite resource so choosing who I want to share it with is just smart.

I don't think there is anything wrong with valuing your money. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with wanting to be careful with who you spend your money on.

The point is that although you have the right to choose who to treat, women have the right to stick to their preferences (e.g. to go out with guys who treat versus those who don't treat). And a "treated" woman doesn't owe more to a man than a woman who has paid half the bill. (Although i get the sense, Woggle, that you would agree with me on that one).

Not wanting to treat doesn't make you a "bad" date... it simply means you have a different dating style than some other guys. But it also means that women who are turned off by your dating style are more likely to rule you out because of it.

But does it matter? Not really... because why would you want to keep going out with a woman who doesn't share your values?

But one thing that makes me wonder about your posts, Woggle, is that you previously stated you like a woman with "traditional" values and a feminine role. How does that square with your hesitance in paying the tab? You might want to think about how your approach communicates what you want from a woman. I would think a woman with "traditional" values would be more (not less) likely to insist that she be treated.

But to each their own.

January 10, 2014

I don't think there is anything wrong with valuing your money. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with wanting to be careful with who you spend your money on.

The point is that although you have the right to choose who to treat, women have the right to stick to their preferences (e.g. to go out with guys who treat versus those who don't treat). And a "treated" woman doesn't owe more to a man than a woman who has paid half the bill. (Although i get the sense, Woggle, that you would agree with me on that one).

Not wanting to treat doesn't make you a "bad" date... it simply means you have a different dating style than some other guys. But it also means that women who are turned off by your dating style are more likely to rule you out because of it.

But does it matter? Not really... because why would you want to keep going out with a woman who doesn't share your values?

But one thing that makes me wonder about your posts, Woggle, is that you previously stated you like a woman with "traditional" values and a feminine role. How does that square with your hesitance in paying the tab? You might want to think about how your approach communicates what you want from a woman. I would think a woman with "traditional" values would be more (not less) likely to insist that she be treated.

But to each their own.

I do like women with a sweet and nurturing side but I have a side like that as well so it is equal. It doesn't come out much on here but I can be a very caring and nurturing person with the right people.

I actually prefer a more equal relationship but I don't like hypocrisy and a number of women who talk about how men need to be men and complain about the lack of chivalry are outright hypocrites. They would get very angry if a man should a woman should cook for a man to show him she loves him or even if he just says he prefers a sweet and nurturing woman. That is what I am calling them out on. I would say the same thing with a man who wanted a stay at home wife but didn't want to be the provider.

I never said that woman owe sex in exchange for money.

January 10, 2014

Do women really equate spending money on them with attention / interest?

There are no equations, just indications... Don't you spend money on the people you are interested in?

When I pay for my friend's dinner is because I'm very happy to see her at last... Or when I buy to my mum a carefully selected gift its because I'm happy to give her something luxurious she wouldnt really buy for herself... Or when I take my niece to the fair and buy him 5 rides on the big wheel I won't care because I love that he has fun. Or when I invite a coworker to have a break and drink a coffee with me and treat him/her, it will be just because I appreciate his/her company and his/her presence makes me feel nice. And when I have a solid relationship, I will buy to my boyfriend tickets for a concert of his favorite band, gadgets he craves, a sushi meal, or just his favorite brand of bananas.

Is it really so scary/stupid to be a bit traditional in the first or second date? If it is, you don't have to be. Do it if you think it's a romantic illusion which you truly enjoy. Not if you think you are sacrificing something. Be yourself, and someone will appreciate it.

January 10, 2014

Be yourself, and someone will appreciate it.

Yes. I think this is important for everyone to internalize.

Pointing out the "hypocrisy" in other people's dating styles is sort of pointless... because honestly I don't think a single person alive is inherently coherent in their values. Nor is there a single set of assumptions we all share going into a dating scenario.

I enjoy hearing other people's perspectives, though... mostly because I find it interesting how differently people approach interpersonal relating from one another.

I might, on the face of it, be one of the "hypocrites" you describe, woggle. I don't pay for dates, but I am otherwise an independent woman who demands an acknowledgement of my equality. But it works for me and my SO. He loves to treat, and he gets just as jazzed by my strong personality. Before I met him, I had a habit of intimidating a lot of men because of my background and career aspirations. But in a weird way, my style compliments his otherwise very "traditional" approach to courtship.

Similarly, he's a man who values a traditionally "feminine" woman, but is also attracted to a powerful, independent type at the same time. He might stand accused of being a "hypocrite" by women who can't strike that very difficult balance. But somehow, it works.

January 10, 2014

I've just started seeing someone and I really like him, but I am extremely annoyed with the fact that he has never actually paid entirely for any of our dates, and didn't come and pick me up during our last date.

Good grief. That is so effeminate and weak. When you ask a girl out you always pay for everything. What kind of man wouldn't understand that?

Before you attack me, let me say that we always split the bills on the date, and I don't really mind,

You should mind. That's unacceptable.

is it crazy for me to want him to take me out-in all sense of the phrase (e.g., pick me up, pay for dinner) essentially wine and dine me!!!

No you are not crazy. That's the way it should be. This guy is a pussy.

but I don't think chivalry and feminism have to be in contention with one another. To me, they are completely different things.

You're being dishonest with yourself. Girls love chivalry. And they should. But feminism has forever poisoned that well.

I feel a bit shallow about this but it does bother me.

It should bother you. It's not shallow in any way. IMHO he is treating you like ****.

I will also wager that he's the kind of pussy who would not defend your honor if some other guy dissed you or touched you inappropriately.

Is this dump worthy???

Yes.

Edited January 10, 2014 by skydiveaddict

January 10, 2014

Cheating and playing are two very different things. I have shunned friends for cheating as well but the women my friends mess with are more willing participants rather than victims. Most women involved in casual and FWB situations are willing participants.

Baloney. Lots of women are mislead into thinking the guy is looking for a relationship when, in reality, he just wants a booty call or FWB arrangement.

That's why they call them 'players'...

Of course your 'friends' want to portray the women as going along with it.

Take a look around LS. I'd argue that half the women come here because they are confused about a man's intentions.

Heck, I dated a guy for a little while who claimed he had a 2-3 year long 'FWB'. I know for sure (now) that SHE didn't think that. That was just what he called it to give him cover for the romancing he was doing on the side.

Anyway, this is why I won't knowingly date a guy who has had a FWB anymore. If he'll do that with one woman, he'll try and do it to me.

AND... I expect him to exert a pretty high level of effort to prove he's looking for a relationship with ME... not just a relationship "in general" or "someday"

Edited January 10, 2014 by RedRobin

January 10, 2014

Anyway, this is why I won't knowingly date a guy who has had a FWB anymore. If he'll do that with one woman, he'll try and do it to me.

AND... I expect him to exert a pretty high level of effort to prove he's looking for a relationship with ME... not just a relationship "in general" or "someday"

I love you! I wish (more) women my age thought like this!

January 11, 2014

Baloney. Lots of women are mislead into thinking the guy is looking for a relationship when, in reality, he just wants a booty call or FWB arrangement.

That's why they call them 'players'...

Of course your 'friends' want to portray the women as going along with it.

Take a look around LS. I'd argue that half the women come here because they are confused about a man's intentions.

Heck, I dated a guy for a little while who claimed he had a 2-3 year long 'FWB'. I know for sure (now) that SHE didn't think that. That was just what he called it to give him cover for the romancing he was doing on the side.

Anyway, this is why I won't knowingly date a guy who has had a FWB anymore. If he'll do that with one woman, he'll try and do it to me.

AND... I expect him to exert a pretty high level of effort to prove he's looking for a relationship with ME... not just a relationship "in general" or "someday"

This idea that women are helpless victims who are not in control of their dating life is more insulting and patronizing to women than anything I can say.

January 11, 2014

This idea that women are helpless victims who are not in control of their dating life is more insulting and patronizing to women than anything I can say.

No one is calling women "helpless victims". Sometimes women are duped. Especially young women who haven't had a lot of experience yet. Sometimes women want to believe that a man is honest about his intentions, when he is not. It's not like players wear a sign around their necks which proclaims "Heyyyy ladies! Imma playa! Watch out!".

And if RR is right and you do empathize with players, then excuse me, I have to go throw up. Players are people who do not deserve any empathy whatsoever, not now, not ever. The fact that they are willing to hurt other people to satisfy their selfish needs, without a second thought, is truly evil.

January 11, 2014

No one is calling women "helpless victims". Sometimes women are duped. Especially young women who haven't had a lot of experience yet. Sometimes women want to believe that a man is honest about his intentions, when he is not. It's not like players wear a sign around their necks which proclaims "Heyyyy ladies! Imma playa! Watch out!".

And if RR is right and you do empathize with players, then excuse me, I have to go throw up. Players are people who do not deserve any empathy whatsoever, not now, not ever. The fact that they are willing to hurt other people to satisfy their selfish needs, without a second thought, is truly evil.

I don't empathize with men or women for that matter who mislead or lie to empathy. I empathize with men who are fed up to the point that they wonder if being a good guy is worth it. I understand the frustration that fuels it but I never encourage them to hurt women and I challenge anybody to find an example where I did.

As for players it might surprise you but women these days are just as into casual sex and FWB relationships as men are. I don't judge as long as they do it honestly but it is not something men force on women. Women freely choose to have casual sex and FWB kind of relationships and in most cases know exactly what they are getting into.

January 11, 2014

This idea that women are helpless victims who are not in control of their dating life is more insulting and patronizing to women than anything I can say.

Giving so-called 'men' excuses to be liars and cheats is more man-hating than anything I could ever say.

I have zero tolerance for people who prey on the good will and trust of those who are trying to find love. That is the 'players' stock and trade.

You talk about 'good women' Woggle... who are nurturing and caring. Well, that trust is abused by the very same shyteheads you call your 'friends'... and sounds to me like you give them cover with your continued association with them.

January 11, 2014

I won't open my wallet unless I see it might go somewhere no need wasting

$50 on a first date dinner when im looking for compatibility.

we met chat in a bar shoot pool have a drink or

met and have coffee if I see potential ill pay for a date...

IMO if I like a girl the big dates will be Valentines day

Christmas presents birthday party holidays and so on...

January 11, 2014

Giving so-called 'men' excuses to be liars and cheats is more man-hating than anything I could ever say.

I have zero tolerance for people who prey on the good will and trust of those who are trying to find love. That is the 'players' stock and trade.

You talk about 'good women' Woggle... who are nurturing and caring. Well, that trust is abused by the very same shyteheads you call your 'friends'... and sounds to me like you give them cover with your continued association with them.

Did I not just say that I have cut off friends for cheating? That is much different than people who enjoy casual sex.

I see the kind of women my friends mess with and they are just as bad as them. They date on their level. These are not women trying to find love. Some of them are actually married or have boyfriends which I do cut off friends for if they insist on bringing it around me.

January 11, 2014

You must date some bummy dressing men if you believe good date clothes for men don't cost money. Stylish and tasteful mens clothing is not cheap. And men in metro areas tend to spenda decent bit on clothing.

True and also are they saying that women look like crap whenever they aren't on a date. I highly doubt this is the case.

January 11, 2014

Woggle I think I remember you saying you remarried? Am I right?

January 11, 2014

Woggle I think I remember you saying you remarried? Am I right?

Yes I am and very happily.

January 11, 2014

Yes I am and very happily.

I am happy for you. She must be glad you like women so much.

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Am I insane for wanting to be wined and dined?

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