Am I insane for wanting to be wined and dined?

January 9, 2014

Awwww, so cute the dates your SO has done, especially the robots one!!

Yeah, the robots were pretty cool. He doesn't do anything that interesting (he was in grad school at the time, in computer science), but the Artificial Intel lab was down the hall from him. So we snuck in on a Saturday.

It really is one of my favorite memories from when we were first dating.

But a little creativity can go a long ways. When a man makes a woman feel special and thought after, it matters not how much he spent in doing so.

January 9, 2014

To be entirely honest, if I went on a date with a man who ended up buying lunch for a starving family we saw on the way to the restaurant, I would be instantly swooned and happy to eat a .99 pizza slice instead.

But that's just me...

My boyfriend did something kinda like this and it really struck me...

He carries ziploc baggies in the truck of his car with nonperishable food and basics, a bit of a "care package" and hands them out to the homeless when he's out and about.

My heart swells up and feels all fuzzy inside everytime he hands one out.

January 9, 2014

Well it's a rather silly scenario anyway. I don't think anyone here has dated a guy who bought a homeless family a meal on their way to a date.

It sort of happened to me lol. Not the EXACT scenario, but a version of it.

January 9, 2014

To be entirely honest, if I went on a date with a man who ended up buying lunch for a starving family we saw on the way to the restaurant, I would be instantly swooned and happy to eat a .99 pizza slice instead.

But that's just me...

I think the point is that, in the OP's case, her date might have expected her to pay half of the .99 cents.

Her question isn't about cost of dates or wanting expensive dates, not at all. It's about a man who always expects her to pay half and how that is not something she likes in dating.

January 9, 2014

My boyfriend did something kinda like this and it really struck me...

He carries ziploc baggies in the truck of his car with nonperishable food and basics, a bit of a "care package" and hands them out to the homeless when he's out and about.

My heart swells up and feels all fuzzy inside everytime he hands one out.

There you go. Does he have a brother in the Ottawa region? lmao

January 9, 2014

I think the point is that, in the OP's case, her date might have expected her to pay half of the .99 cents.

Her question isn't about cost of dates or wanting expensive dates, not at all. It's about a man who always expects her to pay half and how that is not something she likes in dating.

I got that.

My point is that I don't agree with this way of thinking.

January 9, 2014

As I said earlier in one of my posts on the topic, I am generous even with friends and friends are generous with me. I went to visit my bestfriend in her city last summer and we're friends so I did not at all expect her to pay my way, but half the time I took my card out she would shoo me to put it away and would pay. Why? I was her friend, I was visiting her in her city (in another country) and hadn't seen her in ages and as her guest she wanted to be generous and did it as a caring, generous gesture. Just last month my roommate, who is also one of my bestfriends, took me out to a lobster dinner on her tab just for the heck of it and many times we'll go out she'll treat me and I also do the same for them and it's no big deal. I went out to lunch last week with a friend and I picked up the tab, just because. This is just what feels normal to me.

So for me it is just darn bizarre and comes off as not generous when the man who wants to be my boyfriend never offers to pay and ALWAYS expects me to pay half, when my own platonic girlfriends are more generous than that.

It hasn't a thing to do with wanting expensive dates, it's about the lack of generosity that seems to exist. So based on that generous dynamic I have with friends, I am simply turned off by a man who has the attitude that "You always pay half...ok?" It just seems stingy and just tacky. Homeless people and what have you are neither here nor there, like what? LMAO! I am by no means rich at all, I'm a graduate student. We get decent stipends but I'm not rich and I can still do the things I enjoy and be charitable to the homeless and still have money to pay the tab for my friends sometimes. No one is helping the homeless DAILY and to the point they can't afford to pick up a tab ever...smh ridic lmao!

That's just me though. As I said, If other women don't mind, then they can have my share of those guys. But fortunately, I have rarely met men who feel that way and that works for me.

Edited January 9, 2014 by MissBee

January 9, 2014

I'm from Holland, for me it is normal to split the bill. I sometimes let a man pay for me, but not very often. I get the feeling that some men create expectations by buying me diner, I have gotten comments like: "I can't come in? But I bought you diner.." *sad pouty face*

When we are dating for a longer period, it will be him picking up the bill one time, I pick up the bill the next time, rinse, repeat.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Trapito

January 10, 2014

I understand that women want chivalry but they need to understand why many men have turned away from it. Once they understand that then they can work on bringing it back. In order to fix a problem you need to get to the root of it. If chivalry is dead women have killed it and it is up to them to bring it back.

January 10, 2014

Chivalry isn't dead. The guys who are successful with women keep it alive and well. My guy does.

The men who treat women well just have less competition. My boyfriend was on Match a whole week...I scooped him up.

January 10, 2014

I understand that women want chivalry but they need to understand why many men have turned away from it. Once they understand that then they can work on bringing it back. In order to fix a problem you need to get to the root of it. If chivalry is dead women have killed it and it is up to them to bring it back.

That is silly. How do you figure?

I find this line of thinking all over the place, and not only on LS. That if there is something wrong with our gender norms or dating culture, it's the women who screwed it up, and therefore it's the women who need to fix it. I take issue with this idea. If men stop working to treat women on dates, it's the men doing something new, not the women.

How, exactly, would you place the "blame" on women for men's failure to ante up like they did before?

Of course, I'm more inclined to call BS on the whole idea that "chivalry is dead," because honestly, I have not had a date with a guy who insisted I pay in a very, very long time (if ever). I have "gone dutch" on dates... but I've never had a guy, you know, "put his foot down" about not wanting to pick up the tab. I don't think chivalry is as dead as some people think it is.

January 10, 2014

If I'm going to wine and dine any girl, she better spread her legs after the meal. Fair trade yes!?

January 10, 2014

If I'm going to wine and dine any girl, she better spread her legs after the meal. Fair trade yes!?

I, for one, would love to see you try this out... report back, will you?

I'll be right here, in my lawn chair with some popcorn and a bucket of diet coke.

January 10, 2014

That is silly. How do you figure?

I find this line of thinking all over the place, and not only on LS. That if there is something wrong with our gender norms or dating culture, it's the women who screwed it up, and therefore it's the women who need to fix it. I take issue with this idea. If men stop working to treat women on dates, it's the men doing something new, not the women.

How, exactly, would you place the "blame" on women for men's failure to ante up like they did before?

Of course, I'm more inclined to call BS on the whole idea that "chivalry is dead," because honestly, I have not had a date with a guy who insisted I pay in a very, very long time (if ever). I have "gone dutch" on dates... but I've never had a guy, you know, "put his foot down" about not wanting to pick up the tab. I don't think chivalry is as dead as some people think it is.

Men and women used to have traditions when it came to dating and relationships and then some time in the 70s women decided they didn't want that anymore and wanted to approach things in a more traditionally masculine way. I have talked to men who around during that time and you could get told off for holding open a door for a woman.

Today women still will defend their right to do and act however they want in dating and relationships and if a man doesn't like it he is insecure and can't handle a strong woman. I can get with that but it applies the other way around. You can't just decided to stop doing your part of an arrangement and then tell the other they still need to do their part. Traditional is a two way street but some women these days want it to go one way and understandably a lot of men aren't with that.

I would say the same thing for a man that wanted a stay at home mom wife type but didn't want to be a provider. If you want somebody to live up to their end of the bargain live up to yours.

January 10, 2014

Men and women used to have traditions when it came to dating and relationships and then some time in the 70s women decided they didn't want that anymore and wanted to approach things in a more traditionally masculine way. I have talked to men who around during that time and you could get told off for holding open a door for a woman.

...You can't just decided to stop doing your part of an arrangement and then tell the other they still need to do their part. Traditional is a two way street but some women these days want it to go one way and understandably a lot of men aren't with that.

You'd have to judge people as individuals, not "women" as a group. It's not the same lady telling a guy not to hold open a door for her as the one asking a guy to take her on a traditional date. Don't lump all women together.

January 10, 2014

I understand your argument for parity. But what, exactly, are you saying women did in the 70s to change the dating game? And how, exactly, did they stop living up to their role in the dating game?

Because you can't just say "because feminism." That doesn't tell me anything.

January 10, 2014

You'd have to judge people as individuals, not "women" as a group. It's not the same lady telling a guy not to hold open a door for her as the one asking a guy to take her on a traditional date. Don't lump all women together.

I fully agree which is why I am always a gentleman to my wife and I encourage any man who has a woman who is worth it to the same.

Some women on the other hand don't want to do anything to cater to a man but expect him to wine and dine her. I won't say names but some in this thread are the same ones who chew a man out in other threads for saying they want a traditional woman. It just seems like some want this to be a very one sided thing.

January 10, 2014

I understand your argument for parity. But what, exactly, are you saying women did in the 70s to change the dating game? And how, exactly, did they stop living up to their role in the dating game?

Because you can't just say "because feminism." That doesn't tell me anything.

I was born in 1978 so I can't really speak from experience but from what other men tell that was when the game started to change and they would get chewed out if they hold open a door or offered a seat or whatever. They also felt it was beneath to cook for a man or do nice things for them because it made them a stepford wife.

I just think in general that a lot of the misandris stuff that was so popular back then and is now doesn't exactly put men in a chivalrous mood. When a woman treats a good man right he naturally wants to be a gentleman but I don't see too many women these days that know how to inspire that or are even willing.

January 10, 2014

I was born in 1978 so I can't really speak from experience but from what other men tell that was when the game started to change and they would get chewed out if they hold open a door or offered a seat or whatever. They also felt it was beneath to cook for a man or do nice things for them because it made them a stepford wife.

I just think in general that a lot of the misandris stuff that was so popular back then and is now doesn't exactly put men in a chivalrous mood. When a woman treats a good man right he naturally wants to be a gentleman but I don't see too many women these days that know how to inspire that or are even willing.

So hold on. You haven't experienced these slights that you describe and most of them were before your time... but you still maintain that women aren't holding their "end of the bargain" and they must fix what's wrong with dating?

And if a man doesn't treat a woman "right," it's her fault for not inspiring him?

That's silly.

I don't know anyone who has yelled at a man for opening a door or picking up a check. I'm not saying it doesn't happen... but you are describing this like it's a common occurrence. So common, in fact, that the far MORE common instance of men not wanting to do those special things anymore is totally justified and the woman's fault.

Nope. That sounds like self-serving rhetoric to me. You said it yourself... your experience cannot confirm this misandrist twist is dating. So why blame women for a man's decision to not pick up checks, not open doors, and expect a woman to put out if he does so?

Now, my beef is not so much whether a guy picks up the bill or not. I don't think it should be "expected." I wouldn't continue to date a man who did not have those kind of traditional values, but I don't think it's "wrong" or something to want to date in a different way. But to say women are responsible for men's pointed decision to not treat them as well "because feminism" is something altogether different. And silly.

January 10, 2014

So hold on. You haven't experienced these slights that you describe and most of them were before your time... but you still maintain that women aren't holding their "end of the bargain" and they must fix what's wrong with dating?

And if a man doesn't treat a woman "right," it's her fault for not inspiring him?

That's silly.

I don't know anyone who has yelled at a man for opening a door or picking up a check. I'm not saying it doesn't happen... but you are describing this like it's a common occurrence. So common, in fact, that the far MORE common instance of men not wanting to do those special things anymore is totally justified and the woman's fault.

Nope. That sounds like self-serving rhetoric to me. You said it yourself... your experience cannot confirm this misandrist twist is dating. So why blame women for a man's decision to not pick up checks, not open doors, and expect a woman to put out if he does so?

Now, my beef is not so much whether a guy picks up the bill or not. I don't think it should be "expected." I wouldn't continue to date a man who did not have those kind of traditional values, but I don't think it's "wrong" or something to want to date in a different way. But to say women are responsible for men's pointed decision to not treat them as well "because feminism" is something altogether different. And silly.

I have witnessed a lot of things. I am just saying that men tell me that is when it started. It started then and continues to this day. Maybe men don't get cursed out for holding doors anymore but male bashing is still very popular.

January 10, 2014

I have witnessed a lot of things. I am just saying that men tell me that is when it started. It started then and continues to this day. Maybe men don't get cursed out for holding doors anymore but male bashing is still very popular.

Not saying it doesn't happen. But without examples, it's hard to have a discussion about it. And I still don't see evidence for why it's "women's" fault that men are less chivalrous than before.

Of course.. to a certain extent this line of question is silly. We're assuming that 1) chivalry is dead, 2) "men" as an aggregate don't want to do that "treating" thing any more, in order to ask 3) whether "women" as an aggregate bear responsibility for it.

All three propositions are loaded, of course. But my line of argument here is that maybe we should think about why we always lay responsibility for this kind of stuff at women's feet in particular. It reminds me of anti-feminist arguments that blamed working women for divorce, breakup of the family unit, and all kinds of social chaos. It's a deep rooted, oppressive social narrative that needs to be picked apart, in my opinion. (And not just in discussions about dating).

Edited January 10, 2014 by nescafe1982

January 10, 2014

Maybe men don't get cursed out for holding doors anymore but male bashing is still very popular.

Wait, so now it's because of general "male bashing"?

You think there's not misogyny? How about rape? That's still very popular and happens to a lot of women.

If you're going to put any individual reaction to dating down to some cultural war between the sexes, then no woman should even date any man because rape is so prevalent, and infinitely more problematic and disturbing than "male bashing."

Edited January 10, 2014 by lollipopspot

January 10, 2014

Sometimes I think with the costs of dating for men, they may as well just visit prostitutes and it turn out cheaper and easier in the long-run.. At least they know what they're gonna get at the end! This kinda stuff, I just can't...

I can't think of the expectation that the man should pay as being anything other than an outdated tradition in a society in which MEN made the money, and women kept the house. In those days, I can see that set-up as being a lot more understandable, but nowdays women earn their share too. Just some still expect to be treated the same! It's usually the same kinds of women who claim they're for equal rights and how society needs to change, but they still expect the same kind of treatment women got back in the day.

I especially don't get it if the woman doesn't extend the same level of generosity, but by just slapping the phrase "chivalry" on it means she somehow isn't just selfish and entitled (which is exactly what wanting him to pay really is).

If you're more impressed by his willingness to hand over money as such a big priority, then yeah I'd say there was an issue with that. But to each their own.

January 10, 2014

Wait, so now it's because of general "male bashing"?

You think there's not misogyny? How about rape? That's still very popular and happens to a lot of women.

If you're going to put any individual reaction to dating down to some cultural war between the sexes, then no woman should even date any man because rape is so prevalent, and infinitely more problematic and disturbing than "male bashing."

Rape is a horrible thing but the majority of men are not rapists.

January 10, 2014

I have a question, and I ask from a serious inquisitive point of view. I'm not trying to trap you ladies, I really just don't know the other side of this coin.

If its usually expected for a man to be the one to ask you out, to plan the date, to pick you up, to pay, and to drop you off, what does the woman do ? Is her only role traditionally to just show up ?

She just shows up looks pretty and smiles ?

Cause if that's traditionally how its always been, that really sucks.

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