Am I insane for wanting to be wined and dined?

[Versacehottie]

Because when you keep getting burned over and over again and then you see guys who do everything women say they hate about men getting all the action you start to wonder if maybe that is the right course to take.

 

I am happy with a woman myself but I get sick of guys on here being chewed for what I think are legitimate concerns.

 

I'm being 100% honest here. And I definitely pay attention to all the dating stories I know and have lived. Those guys that are being cheap (i mean of spirit and within their means) are NOT getting action you think they are, very little, if any. One or two dates then girls are over it. Some of them don't even get out of the gate. Seriously!!!

 

The bad behavior of guys where they are being jerks and dating around while a nice guy can't get a proper chance that DOES happen unfairly, enough to be considered significant. That you could complain about and I would agree with you. But I don't know a guy that is a bonafide cheapskate who is getting worthy dates. Promise.

[Woggle]

I'm being 100% honest here. And I definitely pay attention to all the dating stories I know and have lived. Those guys that are being cheap (i mean of spirit and within their means) are NOT getting action you think they are, very little, if any. One or two dates then girls are over it. Some of them don't even get out of the gate. Seriously!!!

 

The bad behavior of guys where they are being jerks and dating around while a nice guy can't get a proper chance that DOES happen unfairly, enough to be considered significant. That you could complain about and I would agree with you. But I don't know a guy that is a bonafide cheapskate who is getting worthy dates. Promise.

 

My player friends pride on themselves on how much they get laid without spending a dime.

[Versacehottie]

So the only way a woman needs a man is if he gives her money?

 

I don't think you understood what I meant. It's not about the money. Too much to get back into here.

 

But i will give you an example so you don't assume I'm a golddigger. My old boyfriend paid for most dinners and dates we went on. In the meantime, I bought all the food, wine etc for elaborate dinners we used to host for friends as well as gifts--mostly clothes & things he liked-- for him every week that exceeded the amount he paid when we were out. Just so you don't think that was about keeping score, we just had traditional masculine/feminine roles--where I liked to pamper him but he would never dream of letting me pay on a date. It works. To be honest, I have never had a problem with any of the guys that have been in my life about money. NEVER. Most guys enjoy doing it and most girls respond in kind and have no intention on taking the guy to the cleaners. It does balance out more as it is bf/gf but I find that most guys happily pay in the dating phase. They will let you once in a while but get uncomfortable letting you too often. I would say being a cheapskate, bitter about $$$ or calculating everything is the biggest turnoff ever.

[Woggle]

I don't think you understood what I meant. It's not about the money. Too much to get back into here.

 

But i will give you an example so you don't assume I'm a golddigger. My old boyfriend paid for most dinners and dates we went on. In the meantime, I bought all the food, wine etc for elaborate dinners we used to host for friends as well as gifts--mostly clothes & things he liked-- for him every week that exceeded the amount he paid when we were out. Just so you don't think that was about keeping score, we just had traditional masculine/feminine roles--where I liked to pamper him but he would never dream of letting me pay on a date. It works. To be honest, I have never had a problem with any of the guys that have been in my life about money. NEVER. Most guys enjoy doing it and most girls respond in kind and have no intention on taking the guy to the cleaners. It does balance out more as it is bf/gf but I find that most guys happily pay in the dating phase. They will let you once in a while but get uncomfortable letting you too often. I would say being a cheapskate, bitter about $$$ or calculating everything is the biggest turnoff ever.

IN your case it is a fair give and take which most sane men would fully support.

 

What the main issue here is is that you have some women who have this misandrist I don't need a man and they are useless kind of mentality and then act surprised when that attitude doesn't exactly inspire a man's chivalrous instincts. If you look at most men who are gentlemen and have happy relationships they don't generally pick women like that.

[Versacehottie]

My player friends pride on themselves on how much they get laid without spending a dime.

 

That's not dating. That's getting laid. Good for them. I'm sure that's not the only thing they are picking up.

[Woggle]

That's not dating. That's getting laid. Good for them. I'm sure that's not the only thing they are picking up.

 

Let me first say that I don't agree with them but after experiencing and witnessing so many things they feel the only thing a woman can offer them is sex.

[Versacehottie]

Let me first say that I don't agree with them but after experiencing and witnessing so many things they feel the only thing a woman can offer them is sex.

 

Well maybe at the end of it all, they will have a fat bank account, an STD and have wasted time getting laid with dumb chicks rather than met some great girl who they have respect for. My point is that other than saving money, they are not really winning here.

[Woggle]

Well maybe at the end of it all, they will have a fat bank account, an STD and have wasted time getting laid with dumb chicks rather than met some great girl who they have respect for. My point is that other than saving money, they are not really winning here.

 

I guess it's a matter of perspective. They are sort of the male versions of those I don't need a man women. To be honest I am glad I will be leaving many behind when I move next year. They are also the male versions of the manhating friends that try and ruin happy relationships.

[Versacehottie]

I guess it's a matter of perspective. They are sort of the male versions of those I don't need a man women. To be honest I am glad I will be leaving many behind when I move next year. They are also the male versions of the manhating friends that try and ruin happy relationships.

 

I agree with you man-hating women are a huge drag. Common ground, I like it.

[lollipopspot]

The bad behavior of guys where they are being jerks and dating around while a nice guy can't get a proper chance that DOES happen unfairly, enough to be considered significant. That you could complain about and I would agree with you.

 

"Unfairly?" It's not about fair or unfair. No one is owed a date/access to a woman's genitals because they're a "nice guy" or a self-professed one.

[Woggle]

I agree with you man-hating women are a huge drag. Common ground, I like it.

 

I agree. Sometimes I want to just come back with some misogynist crap but I try not to stoop to their level. I want to be better than them so I don't always succeed.

[Woggle]

"Unfairly?" It's not about fair or unfair. No one is owed a date/access to a woman's genitals because they're a "nice guy" or a self-professed one.

 

Nobody is owed but if men see certain kinds of guys always doing well they naturally want to emulate that.

[Versacehottie]

"Unfairly?" It's not about fair or unfair. No one is owed a date/access to a woman's genitals because they're a "nice guy" or a self-professed one.

 

whoa. Who said anything about any of that? my comments taken out of context & misunderstood.

[OpheliaSong]

I guess it's a matter of perspective. They are sort of the male versions of those I don't need a man women. To be honest I am glad I will be leaving many behind when I move next year. They are also the male versions of the manhating friends that try and ruin happy relationships.

 

Woggle, has any women here acted like they don't need men and are misandrist? I must have missed those posts since most guys and girls on here seem really like they are genuine and want happy relationships. I understand that some are hurt by exes and say things out of that hurt, but you have to know they will get through that pain. I certainly wouldn't be here if I didn't want male and female versions of dating today and to see how some happy people found love. I think we all know men and women who are players and users, but we don't have to agree with them or hang out with them if they make us feel negative.

[lollipopspot]

whoa. Who said anything about any of that? my comments taken out of context & misunderstood.

 

I don't understand your use of the word "unfair" then.

[Versacehottie]

Woggle said to me: "Because when you keep getting burned over and over again and then you see guys who do everything women say they hate about men getting all the action you start to wonder if maybe that is the right course to take."

 

I was saying that nice guys don't get the action or attention they likely deserve while guys who are acting like jerks DO does legitimately happen. Do not mean anyone "deserves" access to anything.

[lollipopspot]

I was saying that nice guys don't get the action or attention they likely deserve while guys who are acting like jerks DO does legitimately happen. Do not mean anyone "deserves" access to anything.

 

Your post is confusing - I still question your use of "deserve" above. You say they "deserve" "action or attention." That's exactly what I said - dating/access to genitals. Why does anyone "deserve" that for being nice?

[Grumpybutfun]

Nobody is owed but if men see certain kinds of guys always doing well they naturally want to emulate that.

 

Getting desperate sl*t attention isn't doing well unless that is the quality of life you are going for. If it is, why worry about dating practices?

All those women who hate men and act like they don't need them are just coming from a wounded place just like your player friends and men who hate women. They are all reacting to their own messed up pasts and not processing it and letting it go but placing blame because they haven't gotten over it yet. They need to work on themselves, not have relationships and date.

They aren't well enough emotionally for a relationship with anybody anyway so why would you concern yourself with people like this. Ignore them and pay attention to girls you want to date and who shares your values. If you aren't around women like this, it might be the company you keep. If you are still stuck in your past with a crazy ex, maybe it is time to start asking what you need to do to heal from that relationship so you don't carry it forward into your future.

Best,

G

[Versacehottie]

Your post is confusing - I still question your use of "deserve" above. You say they "deserve" "action or attention." That's exactly what I said - dating/access to genitals. Why does anyone "deserve" that for being nice?

 

Gosh, you are reading WAY too much into this and taking it too far & trying to make my comment into something it isn't. Last time I will try to explain:

 

In the general world of where guys ARE going to get attention from women, and only attention where it goes beyond that I'm not commenting on specifically, IN COMPARISON to jerky guys who play games, nice guys sometimes do the right things as HUMANS and don't get rewarded for being good HUMANS.

 

The end.

 

ps am I being punked?

[ascendotum]

I'm being 100% honest here. And I definitely pay attention to all the dating stories I know and have lived. Those guys that are being cheap (i mean of spirit and within their means) are NOT getting action you think they are, very little, if any. One or two dates then girls are over it. Some of them don't even get out of the gate. Seriously!!!

 

The bad behavior of guys where they are being jerks and dating around while a nice guy can't get a proper chance that DOES happen unfairly, enough to be considered significant. That you could complain about and I would agree with you. But I don't know a guy that is a bonafide cheapskate who is getting worthy dates. Promise.

 

A guy who wants to go 50:50 in a nice restaurant or at a concert I would not call a cheapskate anymore than the guy who makes 2 sandwiches and has his date in botanical gardens to save $. Yes 50:50 guy will be a cheapskate in the eyes of many women though, even though he has known the woman for less than 2 hrs. I tended to find the women who earned above average had the most expectations on being treated well ($$) on dates. They enjoyed a certain lifestyle already and a picnic date in the botanical gardens wouldn't cut it with many.

 

As for the chivalrous, generous, 'gentleman who knows how to treat a lady' guys I personally don't think they do any better. Of course people have different definitions of 'better' when it comes to dating success. Is it the guy that shags dozens & dozens of women. Is it the guy that gets a gorgeous looking girlfriend/wife better then expected. Is it the guy that gets a girlfriend that is crazy in love, and super sweet and adores him and treats him really swell at home. Ideally for many a guy they will love to have all three. The first scenario is easier to quantify than the later, and is probably going to resonate with many guys. And when it comes to the players, sleazebags, incorrigible womanizers or just macho guys who lived by their own creed and treated girls as secondary, they don't have to be a gentleman to get laid or have girls eager to be their gf/fwb. Some I knew were thrifty (but not super cheapskates) but they generally didn't have to open the wallet too much or rush to open car doors for women. A couple who earned good $, didn't mind spending to impress either, but far an away the being chivalrous played a small part in women being in the bed.

When it comes to classy women mid 30s up then they might have to change their game if they still want to play or when it comes to finding their ideal wife.

[RedRobin]

Because when you keep getting burned over and over again and then you see guys who do everything women say they hate about men getting all the action you start to wonder if maybe that is the right course to take.

 

I am happy with a woman myself but I get sick of guys on here being chewed for what I think are legitimate concerns.

 

 

I've yet to see you get on even one man's case here on LS for creating the kind of damage that causes women to put up walls you complain about. I've yet to see you take even one male player to task.

 

 

I see you stroking them and leaning more towards "its ok, I understand why you want to be a user. Those horrible women made you do it"

 

 

... and you know just as well as anyone that being good at lying gets lots of people short term gains that honest people don't... in all areas of life. It also comes down to a persistent myth that getting lots of women or being a swinging bachelor is viewed as positive for a man. In my circles, it isn't. In my circles, people look a little askance at unmarried men. They are viewed as unstable.

 

 

The problem is when decent people give liars and users cover with their unwillingness to out them... and don't do their due diligence in making sure they don't continue swimming through their social network chowing down on fresh meat.

 

 

Does it occur to you that the 'player' friends you have are benefitting from being in contact with you? Why do you need to move to cut them off? Why do you need to wait until next year to jettison mean people out of your life? Why do you call them friends??

 

 

... and as far as chivalry and femininity being dead... I DO find that good manners, thoughtfulness, and civility do seem to be at risk in a world where people's primary social interactions are more and more dominated by the written word and an atmosphere of anonymity with zero consequences. That, and disconnection from family and close friendships due to work and other life pressures have also hardened off a lot of people emotionally. People are losing important socialization skills that are demonstrated in all kinds of ways.

[Woggle]

I've yet to see you get on even one man's case here on LS for creating the kind of damage that causes women to put up walls you complain about. I've yet to see you take even one male player to task.

 

 

I see you stroking them and leaning more towards "its ok, I understand why you want to be a user. Those horrible women made you do it"

 

 

... and you know just as well as anyone that being good at lying gets lots of people short term gains that honest people don't... in all areas of life. It also comes down to a persistent myth that getting lots of women or being a swinging bachelor is viewed as positive for a man. In my circles, it isn't. In my circles, people look a little askance at unmarried men. They are viewed as unstable.

 

 

The problem is when decent people give liars and users cover with their unwillingness to out them... and don't do their due diligence in making sure they don't continue swimming through their social network chowing down on fresh meat.

 

 

Does it occur to you that the 'player' friends you have are benefitting from being in contact with you? Why do you need to move to cut them off? Why do you need to wait until next year to jettison mean people out of your life? Why do you call them friends??

 

 

...

 

I don't want men to become players but when I see them on the verge the only way they will listen to me is if I show some understanding and empathy. If I just come down on them then I am another white knight who doesn't get it and they won't listen to me. If you look at my posts I always try to tell them there is a better way.

 

I call them friends because they have been in my life for a while and I am a very loyal guy. I don't agree with what they do and I am honest.

[RedRobin]

I don't want men to become players but when I see them on the verge the only way they will listen to me is if I show some understanding and empathy. If I just come down on them then I am another white knight who doesn't get it and they won't listen to me. If you look at my posts I always try to tell them there is a better way.

 

I call them friends because they have been in my life for a while and I am a very loyal guy. I don't agree with what they do and I am honest.

 

 

Yea, well... I don't keep users and liars in my life. I don't care how long I've known them. If that is the path they are on, they can walk it alone. Sure, I'll TRY to help them... for awhile... but if they insist on going that direction, they will be on their own. They aren't getting any social lubrication from me.

 

 

I've ditched women who were my friends who cheated on their spouses and wouldn't stop.

 

 

What you perceive as understanding and empathy... I perceive as giving them excuses. Why would you give a crap about being called a 'white knight'? Oh, ok... so not being a liar and user is a bad thing?

 

 

Naa. I don't buy it. I think deep down you kind of like that these guys exist... You may have found yourself a good woman, but you still seem to enjoy the vicarious thrill of watching and being around men who hurt women... and empathizing with them, and making it easier for them to do what they do.

 

 

... but back to the topic... anyway, notice OP how discussions of wanting to be treated like a person of value who is worth some amount of effort inevitably ends up in discussions about players getting laid. It some bizarre twisted way, it kind of supports your premise... ie, if he's not putting forth any effort, then he's likely not into you.

 

 

... and if some women equate 'effort' with a guy's willingness to pay, I suppose that is one way to show legitimate interest. Certainly not the only way and not my preferred way.

Edited January 10, 2014 by RedRobin

[Woggle]

Yea, well... I don't keep users and liars in my life. I don't care how long I've known them. If that is the path they are on, they can walk it alone. Sure, I'll TRY to help them... for awhile... but if they insist on going that direction, they will be on their own. They aren't getting any social lubrication from me.

 

 

I've ditched women who were my friends who cheated on their spouses and wouldn't stop.

 

 

What you perceive as understanding and empathy... I perceive as giving them excuses. Why would you give a crap about being called a 'white knight'? Oh, ok... so not being a liar and user is a bad thing?

 

 

Naa. I don't buy it. I think deep down you kind of like that these guys exist... You may have found yourself a good woman, but you still seem to enjoy the vicarious thrill of watching and being around men who hurt women... and empathizing with them, and making it easier for them to do what they do.

 

I have been at the point where I was just fed up with women and I understand what pushes them to that point. I don't think it is right. If a woman you knew was fed up with being mistreated and wanted to play and hurt men would you come down hard on her? I seriously doubt it.

 

I also think that if women want men to treat them right reward men who do so. Good guys get sick of being treated like crap and then seeing the scumbags have women catering to them. How come you never tell women who have a genuinely good man to appreciate him and treat him well?

[RedRobin]

I have been at the point where I was just fed up with women and I understand what pushes them to that point. I don't think it is right. If a woman you knew was fed up with being mistreated and wanted to play and hurt men would you come down hard on her? I seriously doubt it.

I also think that if women want men to treat them right reward men who do so. Good guys get sick of being treated like crap and then seeing the scumbags have women catering to them. How come you never tell women who have a genuinely good man to appreciate him and treat him well?

 

 

I just said I did in the thread above... Stop playing dumb.

 

 

You understand what pushes them to that point. Really?

 

 

Then I guess it shouldn't be difficult at all to understand what pushed your ex wife to cheat on you.

 

 

The fact that you can extend empathy and sanction to men hurting women, but not sanction to women hurting men is where your personal issues stand out the most.

 

 

There is another thread talking about so called 'good guys'. If being 'good' is nothing more than manipulation to get sex... that's hardly considered 'good'. Anyway, some of you are just so wrapped up in your own personal pain, that it never occurs to you that everyone gets hurt in life. Everyone who tries to love and genuinely care for someone is going to get hurt.

Edited January 10, 2014 by RedRobin