Am I insane for wanting to be wined and dined?

[soccerrprp]

This whole who pays what is silly to me.

 

This is what should happen:

 

1. Talk about the expectations before the date, or

2. The man pays and there's no awkwardness

 

There is no expectation from either that the woman will pay for the date. Also, it is down-right weird to expect from the guy, especially, that things will be dutch w/o having had a discussion.

[TheGuard13]

I'm not interested in chivalry. Mostly because I hate dueling.

 

 

People like what they like, I guess. Myself, I pay for whoever I can, whenever I can, depending on the situation. Men or women. I can't always. And I would find a woman who has issues with occasionally splitting the bill to be absurd, and not compatible with me.

 

 

That said, if you're swept off your feet by something as mundane as someone picking up the bill at dinner, you might be a little too boring for me anyway.

[Versacehottie]

some of the guys will hold steadfast onto the idea that this is using or golddigger behavior on our part, as evidence in this thread. In the meantime, the guys who are generous, or at least open-minded about it, are doing better than them in dating world on that fact alone.

 

I've said it before on other posts, we often spend as much as they do getting ready for date as they spend ON the date. It's the attitude that a girl is trying to TAKE something from them like money that given the opportunity they would rather have not spent. This is why this behavior is so unattractive. It's also lazy, requiring little effort. People should do what they can afford. If an ice cream and some free outing is what you can afford, and you offer it generously it is far more attractive to many women than a guy who takes you to a very nice restaurant and expects you to split the bill (and springs that info on you). How is the conversation beforehand supposed to go? Well we can go to XYZ restaurant if you split the bill with me? How unsexy!

 

I think what the concern is that paying would be all one-sided or that it would continue way into bf/gf status, which is not what we are saying. I think first 5 dates is courting & why OP & those that agree with her are having an issue with it. At least if "who asks pays" can be done, that's 1000 times better.

 

For OP, apart from these money issues, what i see from this is that his very practical way about splitting bills is not what you need to feel like you are being romanced. It's simple, not a match for that reason alone. Save yourself the headache.

[chicaboom]

To preface this, I always insist on paying.

 

However I find it interesting that to you, 50% is not enough effort for you.

 

When I read your posts it gives me the impression that the real problem is you don't want to put in 50% . Instead you want your percentage to be lower, if anything ( thus making his higher ).

 

This is the way its coming across to me.

 

A woman that happily accepts me paying for her, awesome.

 

A woman that leaves for the date EXPECTING me to foot the bill, enormous turn off.

 

 

Let's relate it to sex. Most ladies these days can be convinced or seduced to have sex between 1 and 3 dates. Assuming the guy / circumstances are right.

 

So guy A leaves his place for the date thinking he COULD get lucky tonight.

Guy B leaves EXPECTING to get into your pants that night.

 

Which one is the scumbag? Its similar to how I see it.

 

Good analogy, but I feel like you're being a bit pedantic. It's sort of the same. I wouldn't think a guy was a scumbag for thinking he could/expecting to get lucky. He can expect anything but not get it, and so can I. If all he wanted was sex and manipulated the girl into getting it maybe that's scum bag worthy. But I don't think you're analogy is representative of my situation bc I don't want his money. I want his chivalry and romance. I want him to treat me in a way that shows that he cares. And yes I expect this, but I don't think that makes me a scumbag. Does it make me perhaps more traditional? Probably.

 

Wouldn't you WANT to pay on the first few dates for the girl of your dreams? Wouldn't you want to show this girl a good time if you were really into her? Wouldn't you want to come across as really trying to impress in some sort of way regardless if that means paying for the date or doing something else that will sweep her off her feet?

 

These are the questions I have in my head. And again I must reiterate money is not the issue here. I have buckets full lol. Is paying for a date one way I assess whether he is trying to be gentlemanly? Yes sure. In this case for me that's all I have to go on bc there hasn't been anything else I can use as an indicator.

[Versacehottie]

Chivalry is not dead. Crimey, I don't know why you ladies don't meet more guys that are more traditional. I mean, all the male (heterosexual) peers around me, my brother, friends are the type to pay for a woman's meal.

 

We pay until we get to know our SOs very well and then a little give and take is appreciated.

 

 

A Homeless guy held the door open for me today in a very chivalrous manner. It was very sweet. At its essence I think that OP is just asking that her guy pay as evidence that he has a sweet, generous side.

[chicaboom]

some of the guys will hold steadfast onto the idea that this is using or golddigger behavior on our part, as evidence in this thread. In the meantime, the guys who are generous, or at least open-minded about it, are doing better than them in dating world on that fact alone.

 

I've said it before on other posts, we often spend as much as they do getting ready for date as they spend ON the date. It's the attitude that a girl is trying to TAKE something from them like money that given the opportunity they would rather have not spent. This is why this behavior is so unattractive. It's also lazy, requiring little effort. People should do what they can afford. If an ice cream and some free outing is what you can afford, and you offer it generously it is far more attractive to many women than a guy who takes you to a very nice restaurant and expects you to split the bill (and springs that info on you). How is the conversation beforehand supposed to go? Well we can go to XYZ restaurant if you split the bill with me? How unsexy!

 

I think what the concern is that paying would be all one-sided or that it would continue way into bf/gf status, which is not what we are saying. I think first 5 dates is courting & why OP & those that agree with her are having an issue with it. At least if "who asks pays" can be done, that's 1000 times better.

 

For OP, apart from these money issues, what i see from this is that his very practical way about splitting bills is not what you need to feel like you are being romanced. It's simple, not a match for that reason alone. Save yourself the headache.

 

Thank you for articulating this so well. I think this sums up exactly what I am feeling. It's so sad bc I do like him, but taking everything together and not just whether he has romanced me well enough...I have to end things:(

[stillafool]

Good

 

 

Wouldn't you WANT to pay on the first few dates for the girl of your dreams? Wouldn't you want to show this girl a good time if you were really into her? Wouldn't you want to come across as really trying to impress in some sort of way regardless if that means paying for the date or doing something else that will sweep her off her feet?

 

Well if the above are your questions to him, I think you know his answer now.

[somedude81]

Wouldn't you WANT to pay on the first few dates for the girl of your dreams? Wouldn't you want to show this girl a good time if you were really into her? Wouldn't you want to come across as really trying to impress in some sort of way regardless if that means paying for the date or doing something else that will sweep her off her feet?

 

Something else that would sweep her off her feet.

 

Dates don't need to be about money.

 

There are other ways to be chivalrous besides spending money on a girl.

[Keenly]

Most ladies are having sex between 1-3 dates?! Damn.

 

 

No, not they are. They COULD. Words matter.

[Ok Good]

I dated a guy recently for 5 dates..

 

during one of our convos after that 5th date

he said, "don't go expecting me to spend $2-300 every time we see each other!"

 

the way he said it really threw me

as if somehow how much he spent on our dates was my problem!

 

I honestly did not know what to say to that comment,

he then continued by saying "would you spend that much on someone every time?" and "I've got a big mortgage and child support to pay and am saving up for a new car!!"

again, like somehow I was forcing him to spend that type of $

 

I never did

we would just do fun things and he would pay..

 

btw since he lived out of town

he always stayed at my place

and I made him dinner and breakfast

 

I still don't know what I'd say if someone else

said something like that to me!

[chicaboom]

No, not they are. They COULD. Words matter.

 

By saying that they could, you're also implying that women DO. Words do matter but so do the meanings behind them. Being pedantic does not change the implications and meanings that these different words evoke.

[Keenly]

"Most ladies these days can be convinced or seduced to have sex between 1 and 3 dates."

 

This is not the same as COULD.

 

Yeah it is actually.

 

" I can see myself doing that " and " I could see myself doing that " are interchangeable.

 

 

Just because a girl can like you enough to do it, doesn't me she will.

 

 

If you really want to argue semantics, it won't be with me. You know what I'm saying, and it doesn't make my opinion any less valid that I used the word can instead of could.

[chicaboom]

Yeah it is actually.

 

" I can see myself doing that " and " I could see myself doing that " are interchangeable.

 

 

Just because a girl can like you enough to do it, doesn't me she will.

 

 

If you really want to argue semantics, it won't be with me. You know what I'm saying, and it doesn't make my opinion any less valid that I used the word can instead of could.

 

I think you're missing the point of the thread as well.

[chicaboom]

I dated a guy recently for 5 dates..

 

during one of our convos after that 5th date

he said, "don't go expecting me to spend $2-300 every time we see each other!"

 

the way he said it really threw me

as if somehow how much he spent on our dates was my problem!

 

I honestly did not know what to say to that comment,

he then continued by saying "would you spend that much on someone every time?" and "I've got a big mortgage and child support to pay and am saving up for a new car!!"

again, like somehow I was forcing him to spend that type of $

 

I never did

we would just do fun things and he would pay..

 

btw since he lived out of town

he always stayed at my place

and I made him dinner and breakfast

 

I still don't know what I'd say if someone else

said something like that to me!

 

Time to Run! Say nothing

[Keenly]

I think you're missing the point of the thread as well.

 

I understand the point completely. If it makes you feel better to pin your thread getting derailed on me feel free, but that's not what's going on.you have several pages of people saying " I don't understand why men could think any differently than how I feel " from multiple posters, and I was trying to clarify that there is a difference between expecting and hoping.

 

 

If you want some legitimate advice, the first thing you need to do is COMMUNICATE. YOU CAnt possibly expect a man , on ANY issue, to read your mind about this. If you want to leave him because of this , that's your choice. Just realize that you are picky and want some one who is willing to spend more money on you. There is no shame in it.

[Versacehottie]

If you want some legitimate advice, the first thing you need to do is COMMUNICATE. YOU CAnt possibly expect a man , on ANY issue, to read your mind about this. If you want to leave him because of this , that's your choice. Just realize that you are picky and want some one who is willing to spend more money on you. There is no shame in it.

 

 

Ok, Keenly, your first two sentences above are constructive, legitimate advice. OP, maybe you should let your guy know this as you're breaking up with him? LOL. ps. I don't think you are picky at all.

 

In all honesty, I do think you could let him know & then see what happens. Let us know what happens if you do.

[nomadic_butterfly]

So yes, when you take away the strong foundation and try to build a relationship that is solely about the man paying for dates and the woman giving sex, then yes, like you said, you now have a simplified form of prostitution.

 

 

How depressing...

 

I beg to differ. We all have different values and expectations and it's quite annoying (though very "American") to have polarized views on everything. If a man and a woman were both raised that in the "courting" or "dating" process a man pays, it is in no way, shape or form prostitution.

 

My ex-bf was raised in a household where even after marriage his dad paid for everything. In the courting process, I do expect the man to pay for most things and I haven't had any qualms in dating because I generally date men with shared values. I am not going to belittle or judge someone who believes in going dutch or anything else because that works FOR THEM.

 

Now a woman who will solely date a man with riches just because he is well off and uses her body to get what she wants, YES that is a form of prostitution. The men I date are usually older and more financially stable, so they don't mind. I also have tons of student loans to pay off. Almost one paycheck goes to my loans. OAN, I will cook 50% of the times so we don't always have to eat out; if I see something he likes, I buy it. Every now and again I will pick up the tab and surprise him. I also give him good loving, support, a shoulder to lean on, loyalty, faithfulness, etc. I love cooking, cleaning and taking care of children. Once I am married, yes we will have a joint account and share everything. This works for me. Does that make me a prostitute? Does that make my ex bf's mom a prostitute?

[chicaboom]

I wait until getting into bed before I show them how well I please and impress

 

 

I disagree that it's the most common way. It's actually the most boring way. Why would doing something that everyone else lazily does make it special?

 

If one wants to plan a special date they need to take what they know about the person and use that to plan a date.

 

I agree it is boring... and this is the POINT-where is the EFFORT! I have yet to be on a date where something DIFFERENT was suggested by a guy in the beginning of the dating process. Yes I suppose I could suggest something, but again that goes back to being chivalrous and the guy planning something special for ME to pursue me in the beginning. If I wanted to pursue a guy I would definitely either pay for our first date as a treat to him becuase I really like him, or come up with some creative date night!

[Phoe]

I beg to differ. We all have different values and expectations and it's quite annoying (though very "American") to have polarized views on everything. If a man and a woman were both raised that in the "courting" or "dating" process a man pays, it is in no way, shape or form prostitution.

 

You completely misconstrued what I said.

 

 

Courting a woman and a man paying during dating is not prostitution. My boyfriend pays for EVERYTHING, trust me, I'm the last person to say that a woman being paid for is a prostitute.

 

 

The entire point of my post was to highlight how when a man is wining and dining and paying for everything with the sole expectation that he's gonna get sex out of it, and a woman puts out sex with the sole expectation that the guys gonna pay for her meals and buy her things, and there is NOTHING ELSE going on in the relationship, that it would totally and completely fall apart and implode if it weren't for the man's money and the woman's vagina, then it may as well be legal prostitution.

 

 

The sparknotes version of everything I've said in this thread: Courting and chivalry and romance and sex are all lovely. But focusing on them does not make a relationship. They are the icing on the cake and should come second after having other core values that really bring 2 people together.

[chicaboom]

Ok, Keenly, your first two sentences above are constructive, legitimate advice. OP, maybe you should let your guy know this as you're breaking up with him? LOL. ps. I don't think you are picky at all.

 

In all honesty, I do think you could let him know & then see what happens. Let us know what happens if you do.

 

Yes I am trying to think about whether I just go into it with a firm idea of breaking up with him, or if I discuss it with him first and see how he responds. I mean I like to give people a chance to respond to some critical feedback after all.

 

The issue however, is that this isn't the only problem. As I've mentioned in previous posts he has more pressing problems like ED and porn addiction which I am not sure if I am willing to deal with. I really really like him which is why I am still hanging around. Him not putting a lot of effort in is just another tick in the con column, but is not the main issue I am thinking about.

[Phoe]

I'm 500% on board with OP's desire that a man show effort.

 

In early days of dating and courting, the go-to way of showing effort is the man's willingness to plan a nice outing and pay. Most will agree that it's a good way to get the woman's attention, yes?

 

 

But we also know there are other ways to show effort. RR and her new guy, both put in time and effort to a date that was essentially free. My guy does little things like remembering my favorite fruit is mango and surprises me with them. If I'm in the shower, he has a fresh towel straight out of the dryer all warm and ready for me. A little thing, a little bit of effort, that took no money, but showed that my comfort and happiness is important to him. He didn't HAVE to warm up the towel for me. He could've just given me a regular towel and I never would've blinked an eye.

 

 

EFFORT. It's what really matters.

[chicaboom]

I understand the point completely. If it makes you feel better to pin your thread getting derailed on me feel free, but that's not what's going on.you have several pages of people saying " I don't understand why men could think any differently than how I feel " from multiple posters, and I was trying to clarify that there is a difference between expecting and hoping.

 

 

If you want some legitimate advice, the first thing you need to do is COMMUNICATE. YOU CAnt possibly expect a man , on ANY issue, to read your mind about this. If you want to leave him because of this , that's your choice. Just realize that you are picky and want some one who is willing to spend more money on you. There is no shame in it.

 

thanks, but again missing the point. The fact that I have to explain again that it's not about money means you haven't really read through this entire thread or are just selectively taking meaning from my posts and cutting out what you don't want to see or here.

 

And I now fully expect a reply post where you selectively quote me using the word "money"...which again is not what this is about.

 

please re read my posts if you want.

 

I'm not picky, I just want someone to adore me and show that to me in some shape or form. The fact that I am still hanging around this guy who has mroe serious issues like ED/addiction b/c I can see past all of that and actually see how amazing he is shows the opposte.

 

this thread was just a way for me to weigh the pros and cons of another aspect of him that I had a little bone to pick and wanted to see whether it is a legit reason for me to feel iffy about.

[Keenly]

thanks, but again missing the point. The fact that I have to explain again that it's not about money means you haven't really read through this entire thread or are just selectively taking meaning from my posts and cutting out what you don't want to see or here.

 

And I now fully expect a reply post where you selectively quote me using the word "money"...which again is not what this is about.

 

please re read my posts if you want.

 

I'm not picky, I just want someone to adore me and show that to me in some shape or form. The fact that I am still hanging around this guy who has mroe serious issues like ED/addiction b/c I can see past all of that and actually see how amazing he is shows the opposte.

 

this thread was just a way for me to weigh the pros and cons of another aspect of him that I had a little bone to pick and wanted to see whether it is a legit reason for me to feel iffy about.

 

You can say its not about money, and then I can direct you to the very thread you want me to reread. You have more posts in this thread over the very thing you are trying to say its not about.

 

If its not about him paying for you... why is there an entire thread started and continued by you about him paying for you. I remember seeing less than 3 posts from you talking about the " real issue "

[StanMusial]

You never explained why you like him.

 

He doesn't have many redeeming qualities according to you. Why beat around the bush complaining about his lack of fundage?

[Keenly]

Ummm... what?!

 

If a date is feeling the relationship out for what it will be like in 5 years - the man paying for everything is a super turn off. Too many women feel entitled and yes this has everything in the world to do with money; the number 1 reason couples breakup.

 

Dude, I don't understand either. 11 pages of thread, less than 5 ( generous estimation ) posts about these " other " issues.

 

 

I believe her that there are other things that bother her. I suspect she is hiding behind the money / paying for dates issue because she is too shy or afraid to confront the real things that are bothering her.

 

Whether or not she would admit that of it was true is up to her.

 

 

But if its not about money.... why did you start and continue a thread about money .

Edited January 9, 2014 by Keenly