PurpleCardigan Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 I've read through these boards and nearly all of the messages over the past few weeks trying to sort things out in my head. Really good insights here! I'm an OW (single) who had a short PA with a MM which then transitioned at this request to a friendship, which really was an EA. He ended the PA to "try again" at home and always said that he couldn't leave because of his daughter, age 5. We saw each other 3 months after the break-up, the EA was phone/text and the intense chemistry was still there. He came over to my house and he held me lovingly but there was no sex. He says things like he misses me and still has feelings for me so his solution is not to see me in person. He says if he sees me he will want to fall off a cliff with me (which I assume means resume the affair versus leave his marriage for me). I have strong feelings for him which I've articulated and he says that my feelings are stronger than his. Recently he said that he wants to be friends again as we need to step away from the cliff as "he needs to sort this out on his own." (What does that mean?) I explained the mixed messages and he claimed he wasn't giving them but then said if his situation changes, he will take a break as relationships immediately after a divorce don't work, then seek me out...but not to wait for him. I explained that letting go is hard when I'm alone and he's home with his wife, child, kissing, sex, comfort, companionship, love, etc. His response was that what I imagine is not what it is. He's previously said that the only connection with his wife is his child, but he wants an intact home. He constantly asks if I'm dating and if he thinks that I am he withdraws rapidly as he can't handle the thought of me with someone else. He desperately wants to be friends (the recent in person thing showed that we weren't over each other but more-so me than him) but I suspect that I'm meeting his emotional needs so that he can stay in his marriage as he says that I make him feel good. I'm fairly certain that he's stringing me along and I need to go NC, but I thought I'd ask those of you who've been through this already. Is he stringing me along or should I remain friends with him (and try to fall out of love). Be brutal...I need to hear it!
Speakingofwhich Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 I've read through these boards and nearly all of the messages over the past few weeks trying to sort things out in my head. Really good insights here! I'm an OW (single) who had a short PA with a MM which then transitioned at this request to a friendship, which really was an EA. He ended the PA to "try again" at home and always said that he couldn't leave because of his daughter, age 5. We saw each other 3 months after the break-up, the EA was phone/text and the intense chemistry was still there. He came over to my house and he held me lovingly but there was no sex. He says things like he misses me and still has feelings for me so his solution is not to see me in person. He says if he sees me he will want to fall off a cliff with me (which I assume means resume the affair versus leave his marriage for me). I have strong feelings for him which I've articulated and he says that my feelings are stronger than his. Recently he said that he wants to be friends again as we need to step away from the cliff as "he needs to sort this out on his own." (What does that mean?) I explained the mixed messages and he claimed he wasn't giving them but then said if his situation changes, he will take a break as relationships immediately after a divorce don't work, then seek me out...but not to wait for him. I explained that letting go is hard when I'm alone and he's home with his wife, child, kissing, sex, comfort, companionship, love, etc. His response was that what I imagine is not what it is. He's previously said that the only connection with his wife is his child, but he wants an intact home. He constantly asks if I'm dating and if he thinks that I am he withdraws rapidly as he can't handle the thought of me with someone else. He desperately wants to be friends (the recent in person thing showed that we weren't over each other but more-so me than him) but I suspect that I'm meeting his emotional needs so that he can stay in his marriage as he says that I make him feel good. I'm fairly certain that he's stringing me along and I need to go NC, but I thought I'd ask those of you who've been through this already. Is he stringing me along or should I remain friends with him (and try to fall out of love). Be brutal...I need to hear it! If a man told me that my feelings for him were stronger than his for me it would have the effect of making me less interested in him. It would put me off. A man's interest in me is part of what draws me to him. It sounds as if this man does care for you. He just seems confused. It seems that you're communicating honestly with him and not playing games which seems healthy to me. And it seems that he isn't stringing you along because he's being honest with you about his feelings and about being unavailable at this point for a relationship beyond friendship. I think of stringing along as someone who talks as if they care about you so that you'll stay with them but really don't care for you. You just have to decide whether you are able to settle for just a friendship with him. 2
Author PurpleCardigan Posted January 8, 2014 Author Posted January 8, 2014 Thanks Shining Autumn and SpeakingofWhich! I'm torn between these two scenarios of he's completely selfish and he's telling me what he can give. Without getting too detailed and I don't want to think about this to the point where it consumes my life is that after he came to my house after finally seeing me, I asked him why he agreed to see me. He replied that he wanted to know if we still had the strong polarity (his words which makes me laugh because apparently that's a common affair cliche) and he stated that we did. He wanted sex that day, but wouldn't make the move for it, and left before he felt like he couldn't control himself. So maybe he is seriously confused and this boils down to what I can emotionally handle. I do fear that a friendship/EA will continue to give me false hope and prevent me from finding a reciprocal relationship with a single guy.
wanting more Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 I've read through these boards and nearly all of the messages over the past few weeks trying to sort things out in my head. Really good insights here! I'm an OW (single) who had a short PA with a MM which then transitioned at this request to a friendship, which really was an EA. He ended the PA to "try again" at home and always said that he couldn't leave because of his daughter, age 5. We saw each other 3 months after the break-up, the EA was phone/text and the intense chemistry was still there. He came over to my house and he held me lovingly but there was no sex. He says things like he misses me and still has feelings for me so his solution is not to see me in person. He says if he sees me he will want to fall off a cliff with me (which I assume means resume the affair versus leave his marriage for me). I have strong feelings for him which I've articulated and he says that my feelings are stronger than his. Recently he said that he wants to be friends again as we need to step away from the cliff as "he needs to sort this out on his own." (What does that mean?) I explained the mixed messages and he claimed he wasn't giving them but then said if his situation changes, he will take a break as relationships immediately after a divorce don't work, then seek me out...but not to wait for him. I explained that letting go is hard when I'm alone and he's home with his wife, child, kissing, sex, comfort, companionship, love, etc. His response was that what I imagine is not what it is. He's previously said that the only connection with his wife is his child, but he wants an intact home. He constantly asks if I'm dating and if he thinks that I am he withdraws rapidly as he can't handle the thought of me with someone else. He desperately wants to be friends (the recent in person thing showed that we weren't over each other but more-so me than him) but I suspect that I'm meeting his emotional needs so that he can stay in his marriage as he says that I make him feel good. I'm fairly certain that he's stringing me along and I need to go NC, but I thought I'd ask those of you who've been through this already. Is he stringing me along or should I remain friends with him (and try to fall out of love). Be brutal...I need to hear it! I think he's stringing you along. I miss you but I can't be with you I'm only home for my child If I divorce I won't be with you right away but i'll find you later Date. But don't date. I want you. But I don't want you. He's giving the same lines most MM do JUST ENOUGH to keep you wanting him. IMO. APs can't be friends after the A ends. Too many feelings. If it ended with a d-day, those loving feelings fade, then turn to hate then you realize you dont want them as a friend If both parties realize the A is going no where and it ends, the loving feelings may fade some but I think there's always a "what if" if you remain friends Tell him go home and be with his child. You can move on and find someone who wants you and can be with you. And forget the friends part. You can find other friends 1
whichwayisup Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 Be brutal...I need to hear it You asked for it! No rudeness here but I will give you kick in the butt and a reality check. NO way is a friendship good for you. If he is going to try to fix his marriage or end his marriage, you can't be in his life. It'll prevent you from ever falling for someone else, that is if you two try the friendship thing. You love him and want ALL of him, right? Well, it'll mess you up on all levels if you stay in his life all the meanwhile he's living life with his wife. It'll hurt you to continue to be second fiddle and not number one to him. You'll be lower priority and only see him still on HIS terms and time frame. You are worth so much and he can't give you what you want. Love him, fine but that doesn't mean you have to have him. It'll be painful and you'll hurt for a while ending it and staying out of his life. NC is for YOU. For you to heal, grieve the loss and go through all the stages of grief so you can move on with your life. He is has hurt you. Led you on, omitted truths and lied to you at times. He is married and has a young child - That child deserves to have both parents together in the same house so removing yourself from his life also gives their kid and them a real chance. If you stick around and 'wait' for him, that's wrong (you know the reasons)... 3
Author PurpleCardigan Posted January 8, 2014 Author Posted January 8, 2014 You asked for it! No rudeness here but I will give you kick in the butt and a reality check. NO way is a friendship good for you. If he is going to try to fix his marriage or end his marriage, you can't be in his life. It'll prevent you from ever falling for someone else, that is if you two try the friendship thing. You love him and want ALL of him, right? Well, it'll mess you up on all levels if you stay in his life all the meanwhile he's living life with his wife. It'll hurt you to continue to be second fiddle and not number one to him. You'll be lower priority and only see him still on HIS terms and time frame. You are worth so much and he can't give you what you want. Love him, fine but that doesn't mean you have to have him. It'll be painful and you'll hurt for a while ending it and staying out of his life. NC is for YOU. For you to heal, grieve the loss and go through all the stages of grief so you can move on with your life. He is has hurt you. Led you on, omitted truths and lied to you at times. He is married and has a young child - That child deserves to have both parents together in the same house so removing yourself from his life also gives their kid and them a real chance. If you stick around and 'wait' for him, that's wrong (you know the reasons)... Thanks! That was good to read Intellectually, it makes so much sense. Emotionally much harder. I am seeing a therapist later this week to help me implement whatever decision I make on how to move forward with this. Whenever I try to pull away he works very hard to pull me back in and I'll need professional support to counter those triggers. I just have to believe that I am worth more than being second and a relationship on HIS terms. His child does deserve a happy home(s), too, whatever they decide. Again, thank you! 1
Author PurpleCardigan Posted January 17, 2014 Author Posted January 17, 2014 Can marriages survive when there is no affair (physical & emotional) disclosure? Or does hiding it always lead to an aspect of dishonesty/distance in the relationship? Or perhaps I want to know if a healthy marriage can flourish without disclosure?
Philosoraptor Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 If you consider a healthy as having a relationship based on a lie, yes. 3
experiencethedevine Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Can marriages survive when there is no affair (physical & emotional) disclosure? Or does hiding it always lead to an aspect of dishonesty/distance in the relationship? Or perhaps I want to know if a healthy marriage can flourish without disclosure? I would hesitate to say that if there is an affair that is undisclosed/undiscovered, either active or defunct, that the issue is one of a marriage that is functioning on the roots of dishonesty in any regard, wouldn't you say? Secure relationships are built on foundations of trust. That is what the marital vows express is it not? When trust fails and communication is ineffective allowing dishonesty to further erode it, there is only the hope of a dramatic and concentrated effort to address subsidence and attempt to restore the marriage to some equilibrium. 1
cocorico Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Can marriages survive when there is no affair (physical & emotional) disclosure? Or does hiding it always lead to an aspect of dishonesty/distance in the relationship? Or perhaps I want to know if a healthy marriage can flourish without disclosure? It depends on what you mean by "healthy" and "flourish". I know of several couples where the BS has not been informed of, or discovered, the A, where life continues as before, seemingly happy enough to outsiders. Though, I must add, in some of those cases the WS went on to have other As or resume the A over time, so perhaps that disqualifies them on the "healthy" bit... Though, perhaps the BS would have considered them healthy anyway, not knowing better.
BetrayedH Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 I don't know how there can ever really be any true intimacy if you've just tricked your spouse into staying with you. 8
cocorico Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 I don't know how there can ever really be any true intimacy if you've just tricked your spouse into staying with you. I would agree with this... But given how many BS consider their M to have been "healthy" and their R to have been "intimate" up to the point of DDay, I wonder who gets to make the call on whether the M is "healthy" / "intimate" / "good" / etc. - the BS, who does not know (yet) that they are a BS? The WS, who finds "lack" in the M grounds for going elsewhere? Outsiders, with their own views on what they would consider acceptable in a M? 1
Sub Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 I would agree with this... But given how many BS consider their M to have been "healthy" and their R to have been "intimate" up to the point of DDay, I wonder who gets to make the call on whether the M is "healthy" / "intimate" / "good" / etc. - the BS, who does not know (yet) that they are a BS? The WS, who finds "lack" in the M grounds for going elsewhere? Outsiders, with their own views on what they would consider acceptable in a M? The more truth involved in the M, the greater the chance for clarity on the situation. An ignorant BS may absolutely love a perfectly happy WS, but she's only loving the part she knows about, which isn't real. 1
waterwoman Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 There was no dday for my EA. At least not on my side. He said he was leaving his GF and he wanted me to leave my H but from what I've read on here I suspect that what he said and what he did were not neccesarily the same thing so there may not have been one on his either. To be fair to myself I put major steps into place to end the EA cold but leaving my job asap and having nothing to do with OM's minor fishing expeditions vie a mutual friend....but I should have told H. The memories gave me a place to hide when I was having a hard time - a lot of which were provided by H and his FOO issues, and major money problems (again thanks H!) and my parents' ill health over the next few years. I kept it as something that was just for me and that was selfish. I told him after his dday - ironically as a way to show him I did partially understand how it happened (although his went much much further than mine) and that he wasn't as he beleived, a total monster. I don't want any more secrets between us. 3
VeronicaRoss Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 The real answer is always going to be: would the marriage be successful in the cheated partner's eyes if they found out? When a friend's step-father died her mother found a stash of her husband's love letters from his long-time mistress. They were both busy professionals so lots of trips and late hours on both their parts. But she really had no idea he was cheating, let alone having this long affair. Of course she was devastated. Her first husband had cheated on her too and had left her and her three kids for another woman. So they were married successfully for decades in a way. But now she has the rest of her life to think about that marriage in a completely different light. He was using her as a wife, she wouldn't have accepted his terms if she had been given the chance to choose to stay with him. It was incredibly disrespectful. The thing about never having dday is you rob the other person of a major life choice. I get if there was one quick regretted and not repeated indiscretion why you wouldn't tell to the other person. But if the cheating happens more than once you're in a one-sided open-marriage and is just a gross violation on so many levels and not being honest is using someone like an object. 4
katielee Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 The thing about never having dday is you rob the other person of a major life choice. I get if there was one quick regretted and not repeated indiscretion why you wouldn't tell to the other person. But if the cheating happens more than once you're in a one-sided open-marriage and is just a gross violation on so many levels and not being honest is using someone like an object. actually, I don't get it even if there is one discretion... the BS should STILL be allowed to have all the info in order to make a choice. My sister found letters after her husband of one year died as well. It took her years to recover. 4
Sofie2013 Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Can marriages survive when there is no affair (physical & emotional) disclosure? Or does hiding it always lead to an aspect of dishonesty/distance in the relationship? Or perhaps I want to know if a healthy marriage can flourish without disclosure? I am a WS. My husband found out about the affair so I didn’t come clean. If things ended different and he never found out I would tell him. I wouldn’t be able to live with the guilt. Part of the reason my husband was able to find out about the affair was the way I was acting. I was already trying to pull myself away from him without even knowing it. 4
Spark1111 Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 True emotionally intimacy cannot be attained unless there are NO secrets. the keeping of a secret as big as infidelity will prevent the WS from opening up their heart completely to their spouse....and a distance grows. But hey, if that is not a priority for you, I guess you could appear to be happily married.....enough. 3
BetrayedH Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 I would agree with this... But given how many BS consider their M to have been "healthy" and their R to have been "intimate" up to the point of DDay, I wonder who gets to make the call on whether the M is "healthy" / "intimate" / "good" / etc. - the BS, who does not know (yet) that they are a BS? The WS, who finds "lack" in the M grounds for going elsewhere? Outsiders, with their own views on what they would consider acceptable in a M? Hmm. I have a feeling that the terms "healthy," "good," and "intimate" are highly variable. I can only imagine how much more intimate my marriage would have been had my spouse confessed her affair and we had been able to reconcile properly. I would say that my marriage was acceptable prior to Dday. The affair and her subsequent dishonesty severely limited our ability to build something better. I think the same applies when a wayward fails to disclose an affair. The potential of the relationship is limited by virtue of the dishonesty between them. I imagine a scenario where the (unknowing) BS says to friends and family how special her M is, extoles on their mutual fidelity, and the WS sits there in silence because they know that the reality is that their marriage is a sham and built upon a lie. The BS could have a better marriage (perhaps even with someone else) but they instead are stuck with a M where the capacity for intimacy is limited. I have numerous times openly asked her for BSs to come forward if they wish they just didn't know about their WS's affair. Since they both knew how happy they were before the affair and how painful it was after Dday, you'd surmise that many would just like to return to a state of ignorance. But the truth is the exact opposite; we want a real relationship, not a fake one. Considering that it's the rest of someone's life we're talking about, I think that should be respected. 7
katielee Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 . But the truth is the exact opposite; we want a real relationship, not a fake one. Considering that it's the rest of someone's life we're talking about, I think that should be respected. I would like this quote but it wouldn't be enough. This is SOMEONE'S LIFE we're talking about. If the WS can do one thing for the BS it's tell them the truth. It's been two years since my Dday and three things have happened lately causing me to doubt my husband. It's like I wouldn't be suprised if things were going on with him and another woman- that's not trust. These three issues sent me spiraling, and my body CANNOT sustain what this does to me. Your point betrayedH, on the WS confessing - well, it's so true. It doesn't make the affair any better or worse, but it does show the BS that the wayward has made one step in the right direction, knowing that their marriage may die if they tell the truth but believing their spouse deserves it anyway. There were too many lies and two affairs I uncovered myself. The damage has been too great. If any WS is reading this, if you love your spouse, tell them. You have a better chance at reconciliation if you take this step, IMO. 3
SnapCracklePop Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Interesting discussion! I recall a thread similar to this from a number of years ago. I think the wayward spouse was wondering if they should confess to their partner, and the situation that had existed was that the BS would never, ever find out. So the WS was feeling guilty, and the BS was just going about life like nothing was wrong. Confessing would only hurt the BS, and help rid the guilt of the WS. Since the WS was in the wrong, shouldn't that person be the one to carry the burden, and prevent the BS from hurt and pain of the discovery of an affair. I would suspect that in most cases where there is not a dday, the WS would build confidence that s/he can continue to cheat and not get caught. But if the WS has a conscience, and the WS realizes that their actions were totally wrong, bad decision, moment of weakness, etc. whatever the situation may have been - see that this is not who they want to be or become... able to live with their guilt and be fully committed to their partner, then the marriage would probably be ok without a disclosure or discovery. A lot of IFs huh... Still... they would probably have that little "thing" that constantly eats at them... I imagine it would truly suck and be very punishing to live like that.
Fluttershy Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 There were two women on here who were posting, past their affair, and totally against telling. They were trying to make their marriage better but their BS didn't have all the pieces. They were being eat up inside and by their posts you could tell they needed to come clean even for their own sakes... But they couldn't do it. Most people who feel terrible about affair, stop it, and don't do it again will find the duplicity too much to take and eventually confess. The secret eats them up inside and they wonder would they stay if they knew? So by not telling they may stay unhealthy. And a marriage can't be really healthy for both people if one spouse is unhealthy. 2
Realist3 Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Can marriages survive when there is no affair (physical & emotional) disclosure? Or does hiding it always lead to an aspect of dishonesty/distance in the relationship? Or perhaps I want to know if a healthy marriage can flourish without disclosure? Of course they can. Edited January 19, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Topical content retained.
whichwayisup Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Can marriages survive when there is no affair (physical & emotional) disclosure? Or does hiding it always lead to an aspect of dishonesty/distance in the relationship? Or perhaps I want to know if a healthy marriage can flourish without disclosure? There's always a chance the BS could find out on their own, someone could tell them (aka exAP) or they figure it out. To fix a marriage with a hidden lie is not healthy nor honest. It's a secret that if/when comes out, could blow up. Better to come clean and go from there. 2
dichotomy Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 There's always a chance the BS could find out on their own, someone could tell them (aka exAP) or they figure it out. To fix a marriage with a hidden lie is not healthy nor honest. It's a secret that if/when comes out, could blow up. Better to come clean and go from there. I think this is kind of what I was thinking - it is likely they will find out at somepoint - and then the years spent living in a marriage as a lie - would be so much more hurtful. Typically afairs involve a someone close - friend, co worker, neighboor, or local person - and it always comes out some how some day. I suppose maybe, kind a....if there was some drunken mistake - A ONS- while at some conference 1000 miles away....maybe I could see a no dDay working ...but then the WS has to be able to live a lie there too - just think in this kind of rare occurance it might work with out disclosure - but how often does this kind of affair happen.
Recommended Posts