FineFreshFierce Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Maybe he had good self esteem and liked who he is as a person? Maybe he doesn't limit himself to women that are "not desirable" to him? It is disgusting how you wrote the above ^^^ If a guy I wasn't attracted to and didn't feel chemistry with asked for my number, I WOULD NOT go telling anyone about it if he "had missing teeth" or what not:sick: I recommend that you be more humble and stop acting "aghast" at the notion of a "lowly paid, missing tooth" guy having the audacity to ask you out...... You must think far too highly of yourself:lmao: No I don't think highly of myself... Why would someone come up to me and say "I would marry you in a second" while looking me up and down? it was inappropriate behavior. If he acted more polite instead of looking at me like a piece of meat, I wouldn't put him down. And I was also joking, hence the "hahah" so relax.
gaius Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Hahah this just happened to me! A bald guy, shorter than me, 20+ years older than me, with several missing teeth (and the teeth he did have were yellow) came up to me and said " I would marry you in a second. Take down my number." He came up to me while he was working, and the job he has is a very low-income job. I couldn't believe it! Maybe he was Madonna's homeless brother. Just think how much respect you could get at parties toting him around.
Leigh 87 Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Because approaches like that are based ONLY on physical attraction. You're not approaching you because you like their personality. So, the decision the attractive person you approaches makes is also only based on their physical attraction to you. So if you're unattractive physically, why do you believe the attractive person you approached will also find you physically attractive and give you their number? Unless the person is nice and willing to talk to you a few minutes to get to know you, instead of make an instant decision based on what they see. Why does a person have to bloody CONFINE themselves to only " other" fellow "unattractive" people? There is nothing wrong and it is nothing even worth RE HASHING, when a guy like that approaches a woman. ANY women. He has a right to NOT want to reduce himself to a number out of ten, who should ONLY cold approach his "equal"
MalachiX Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 HopelessRomantic, I'd like to commend you on putting ugly people in their place. Lord knows that unattractive people have had it too easy for too long! They get all the breaks in society and it's high time someone took them down a peg. Might I suggest another thread that you'd be expertly suited to start? How come handicapped people think they can get with us normal folks? I was out at a bar and this guy in a wheel chair approached my friends. He tried to act all confident as if he wasn't paralyzed from the waist down. What makes him think an able bodied woman will be attracted to him? It gets really annoying that these cripples have no self awareness! After that i say we put children with cancer in their place. P.S. Awesomely appropriate choice of name HopelessRomantic. With your love of romance, I was wondering if you have ever read The Frog Prince. It's a beautiful story of a princess who discovers a frog who can talk. The frog tells her that he is actually a prince and will turn back if she gives him a kiss. At this point, the princess beats the frog to death with her shoe for daring to talk to her. I think you'd like it. 11
Leigh 87 Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 No I don't think highly of myself... Why would someone come up to me and say "I would marry you in a second" while looking me up and down? it was inappropriate behavior. If he acted more polite instead of looking at me like a piece of meat, I wouldn't put him down. And I was also joking, hence the "hahah" so relax. If Brad Pitt looked you up and down and said the same things you would swoon or at least say " well, this guy looked at me like a piece of meat but OMG "swoon" he was GORGEOUS" Yet you has to point out that this guys "teeth were missing and yellow". I am simply telling you my opinion, which you can obviously discard; I see no reason to bring up the fact he had " missing, yellow teeth" which has a negative connotation. If you have nothing nice to say, why do you say it?
Leigh 87 Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 DO you know what I find VERY interesting? That people who deem themselves "attractive" think people who are " not" attractive have some NEERVE to approach them:lmao: That is much more worthy as a topic of discussion than " omg ugly people feel they are entitled to crack onto the hotties"
SJC2008 Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Confidence is not a silver bullet for men. When a woman says she wants a man with confidence it means she wants a man whom she's attracted to have the balls (confidence) to approach/hit on her. I don't blame them for it though...
fabulous Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 The ugly men haven't realized the harsh truth. It's not that women love confident men, any more than men love confident women. Especially in a club/bar scene...it is all about looks. It has been shown by science again and again that people attribute positive personal traits to good looking people. What Is the Halo Effect? Depressed, and nearly suicidal yet tall, dark, handsome, guy: is seen by women as brooding, deep, soulful. Upbeat, cheerful, confident, yet short, pale, and Shrek like guy : is seen by women as pushy, annoying, and a pest. Men do similar things. OP if this man wasn't "ugly" would his being "aggressive" be a problem? Be honest, if he was a hot guy and got the results a hot guy would get, would anyone (any woman that is) have a problem with his "aggression"? Basically this. Attractive men (who lets face it are usually confident) get the most interest from women. The confidence however is a result of the success attractive men have with women, not the reason they are attractive. Most people don't seem to get this. You get guys who look like this thinking all they have to do is treat women mean and be confident and they'll get laid. http://daveschneider.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/uglyman-244x300.jpg The halo effect is a massive influence on perception. When women say they want a man who is confident, they do so by subconsciously connecting the trait of confidence with a man being attractive (after all, most of the attractive men they meet are confident). Confidence serves no purpose at all if you have no reason to be confident. "Just be yourself" is perhaps the best advice you'll ever get. Just make sure you are successful and attractive and the rest will take care of itself, including the confidence which will come naturally. 1
fabulous Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 DO you know what I find VERY interesting? That people who deem themselves "attractive" think people who are " not" attractive have some NEERVE to approach them:lmao: That is much more worthy as a topic of discussion than " omg ugly people feel they are entitled to crack onto the hotties" Self awareness is a virtuous trait. If someone has no self awareness it says allot about their own lacking personality as much it does about the "shallow" beautiful person who rejects them. I'd never have the gusto to approach a Victoria's Secret model if ever the opportunity did avail, simply because i know my chances are nil and I do not not have the bargaining chips to make a relationship an even contribution from both parties. Power differentials in relationships are never a good thing. Face it leagues do exists, there is a huge bulk of science that says we hook up with people of similar socio economic and physical attractiveness. You are free however to chase models and famous actors, however you can't chastise the parties who reject you as being shallow. Leagues apply on all levels of attractiveness, with a sliding degree of relevance as you slide down from the extremes (the most beautiful /least beautiful). The pimply faced nerd who weighs 120lbs dripping wet ain't going to land the hottest girl in college, EVER (it doesn't matter about his "internal reality" or how confident he gets),but he may be able to date up to a cute-ish girl who he finds attractive. We can all date up if we want, up to an extent , beyond which it becomes unnatural, this is when women might call you creepy, or men will pump n' dump you with no hope of developing a relationship.
ascendotum Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Because approaches like that are based ONLY on physical attraction. You're not approaching you because you like their personality. So, the decision the attractive person you approaches makes is also only based on their physical attraction to you. So if you're unattractive physically, why do you believe the attractive person you approached will also find you physically attractive and give you their number? Unless the person is nice and willing to talk to you a few minutes to get to know you, instead of make an instant decision based on what they see. I'm not sure I fully get your point. As you say a cold approach is based only on physical attraction, no matter if the guy approaching is a handsome airline pilot or grungy looking headbanger mechanic. (no offense to longhairs or mechanics) The unattractive guy is going against the odds that you deem him suitable, but that's his prerogative. The unattractive guy needs to get his foot in the door so to speak, to hope his non physical attributes will win her over, but that ain't going to happen if he leans up against the bar waiting for the women to strike up a convo. Yes, he will have a better chance of getting a warmer reception if he chats up an unattractive woman, but its totally up to him if lots of rejection for a chance with a sexier woman outweighs that. You get the good, the bad & the ugly when you go out and are desirable. Better than being unattractive and not getting any attention. The topic of this thread deals with the realm, of 'I'm above his league' and as much as people on here say they don't believe in leagues plenty of women do. (as I'm sure plenty of guys do, when its the fat girl flirting with them). Personally I don't think ugly guys are any more assertive than the good lookers, but I'm sure their attempts grate on you more so leave an impression. 1
Ninjainpajamas Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Look, you can't look like This Then think with some kind of confidence, personality, humor which is likely you acquire non or very little anyway, hit on a girl like... This And a girl like this Shouldn't likewise be hitting on a guy like this So I don't how anyone can say there is absolutely no leagues....of course there is and there's checks and balances for the everyday normal people who...quite honestly fit within the spectrum of somewhere between average or a bit above to all the way down the scale. So luckily, most people are dabbling within the same scale....give or take a few points of attraction here and there, most people aren't 9 or 10's walking around 5 or 6's all day in terms of looks...you've got very far and few in between 9's and 10's, sprinkled in with some 7's and 8's then the rest of the population (IMO). So with a little self-awareness and some experience you should pretty much have an idea where you fall within that scale...otherwise you might not be looking hard enough in the mirror and living knee-deep in a fantasy world...if you can attract the opposite sex that you feel is desirable to you then that is mission accomplished, that scale of desirability is determined by your own relative ability to attract the opposite sex. You should also know to some degree, what women and men are attracted to, and you should also be approaching women/men based on chemistry. And sure, every now and again you might pop a guy/girl that's out of your scale is luck is on your side or the odds were in your favor for X reason...and that's just fine, but in general, have some sense and awareness of what you can get, not just what you are attracted to...I do not agree with the assessment either that for men women are a numbers game, I think that there are definitely some qualities and attributes that will help you attract the opposite sex but it's not just about hitting on as many women as possible until you get lucky...I'm sure to some extent you might get an opportunity eventually, but that's really just demonstrating that you're blinding acting out without much sense of what you are doing. Luckily, there are many things you can do to change the perception of attractiveness to a degree in someones eyes...but shooting for the stars is more often than not just going to leave you disappointed. Your expectations may be too high, just because you're attracted to someone doesn't mean you just think that's what you can get or deserve. But you can try...just don't be surprised if the reality is people think you look foolish and you annoy/inconvenience others (I mean don't they have a right to feel a bit turned-off?) that in itself can be highly unattractive to others who just think you're too oblivious to your own appeal overall. 4
fabulous Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Common sense Ninjainpajamas. Too many men have this "internal reality" mindset and think either/and a) women don't have preferences when it comes to looks, b) it doesn't matter what other people think, only their own internal reality matters. I'll believe leagues and looks don't matter when I can date those cute supermodels I see on TV and I desire and I know other men desire, but who only date tall,rich powerful men to the exclusion of the average Joe (sometimes being rich is enough per se). Alternatively, the protagonist in 50 Shades of Grey sounds nothing like the partner most women are with. Most, if not all women, would prefer their partner to be taller, betting looking and richer than he is, and if they could they would change him to suit. I know this is true, cuz' when women have unfettered power in the dating market, EG when they are exceptionally beautiful, they date those "top 1% of men" and not average men. The fact is we all have to compromise, none of us here i'd bargain has ever dated their ideal partner, objectively speaking. We never will, unless we win the lottery or get famous by some modicum of luck. It's part of life and I'd wager many of those unhappy with their dating life are yet to appreciate that chasing Mr/Mrs perfect is a forlorn struggle with little hope of success. I know many women, and men too, like that. Holding out for something special, then ending up alone.
Mrlonelyone Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 The technical term for what this thread is about, as well as threads about fat girls on OLD or etc. isn't shallowness. Assortative mating. In this video a psychologist who was once more attractive himself, then got injured and is now less attractive talks about it personally and as a scientist. Who You Find Attractive Is Based on How Hot You Are | Dan Ariely | Big Think He basically says the following Assortative mating is when you rank people from highest in attractiveness to lowest in objective attractiveness.People at the top date people at the top, people at the bottom date people at the bottom.People in the middle have a harder time since they are within striking distance of the top and the bottom.He basically says what I said here. Value and Attainability. The short version of the below is that you have a quantifiable mate value which can be determined from scientific means and which is invariant. .... In short: When you are attractive most people who think you are not on their level will not even approach you and will reject you before you can reject them. Like wise people who are attractive will reject those they find unattractive out of hand. This can be effected by factors other than looks. i.e. a attractive female lawyer will want a successful educated attractive man...and so on.
Mrlonelyone Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Common sense Ninjainpajamas. Too many men have this "internal reality" mindset and think either/and a) women don't have preferences when it comes to looks, b) it doesn't matter what other people think, only their own internal reality matters. They are just believing what the are told by so many self help books and even women here on LS. My favorite example of that was on an old TV show in the USA called "Ally McBeal". Ally was this very conventionally attractive late 20's early 30's something female lawyer. This one, TV ugly, male lawyer would psych himself up by looking in the mirror and trying to hear his inner Barry white. Then with confidence he could convince anyone of anything... even women to go out with him. The only realistic thing about this is the women he gets are other lawyers and after a time of seeing him be brilliant in court they can become attracted to him. Intelligence and achievement can be attractive too...but it takes time to see those and wisdom in a partner to appreciate them. (It has been shown that people of similar IQ marry people of similar IQ). In real life, though it is played for laughs here, most of the time guys like this get the girl.
Leigh 87 Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Self awareness is a virtuous trait. If someone has no self awareness it says allot about their own lacking personality as much it does about the "shallow" beautiful person who rejects them. I'd never have the gusto to approach a Victoria's Secret model if ever the opportunity did avail, simply because i know my chances are nil and I do not not have the bargaining chips to make a relationship an even contribution from both parties. Power differentials in relationships are never a good thing. Face it leagues do exists, there is a huge bulk of science that says we hook up with people of similar socio economic and physical attractiveness. You are free however to chase models and famous actors, however you can't chastise the parties who reject you as being shallow. Leagues apply on all levels of attractiveness, with a sliding degree of relevance as you slide down from the extremes (the most beautiful /least beautiful). The pimply faced nerd who weighs 120lbs dripping wet ain't going to land the hottest girl in college, EVER (it doesn't matter about his "internal reality" or how confident he gets),but he may be able to date up to a cute-ish girl who he finds attractive. We can all date up if we want, up to an extent , beyond which it becomes unnatural, this is when women might call you creepy, or men will pump n' dump you with no hope of developing a relationship. Well I consider myself average, but there have been 9/10 guys (by societies scale) who have thought I was absolutely gorgeous. LOOKS ARE SUBJECTIVE UNLESS someone is HIDEOUS looking. Only on the EXTREME ENDS of the spectrum do leagues actually exist! The downright deformed or seriously offensive looking people at one end, and the Victoria secret models on the high end of the scale: YES you are right, the deformed person will not get with a super model. I NEVER EVER walked around thinking " geez Leigh 87, you MUST only take a shot at guys within your own "league" I generally stay away from the people who repulse me, and people who.. well, are famous rock stars or model look alikes. But I still count very hot guys as fair game, and also guys who are maybe what society deems bellow average (but to me they appeal). If I walked around thinking I should NOT be open to ALL sorts of guys ( the 9's and the " 3's" by societies standards) then I would SEVERELY limit myself! It is just preposterous to me to limit myself to people I feel are " at my level" look wise:lmao:
MrCastle Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 There are no leagues. Because everyone finds different things attractive. Aside from that -- better looking people can get passed over for less physical attractive people as well. Just because you're good looking doesn't mean your dating life is trouble free. I have turned down a few women who could, or did model professionally -- because I closed my eyes and saw our relationship ending with them torching my car in a stalkerish fit of rage. So I'd tell them thanks but no thanks before we got anywhere because I though it would lead to disaster. 1
Revolver Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 -Have nothing to lose -Don't really have a choice 1
MrCastle Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 There are no leagues. Because everyone finds different things attractive. Aside from that -- better looking people can get passed over for less physical attractive people as well. Just because you're good looking doesn't mean your dating life is trouble free. I have turned down a few women who could, or did model professionally -- because I closed my eyes and saw our relationship ending with them torching my car in a stalkerish fit of rage. So I'd tell them thanks but no thanks before we got anywhere because I though it would lead to disaster. Forgot to add the larger point -- I'm not a bad looking guy but ultimately you could say those women were "out of my league," yet they wanted me. In some cases, more than I wanted them. But the chemistry was not there. These are women who could have any man they wanted. And they chose me. Leagues exist if you believe in them. Personally, I find that belief to be self limiting and if I believed it, would not be where I am in terms of dating. But to each their own I guess
Leigh 87 Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Castle - Guys I know have turned down super sexy girls who were actually LOVELY people, simply because they didn't light their heart on fire and the man simply didn't fall deeply in love with the "beautiful" women. I do think looks play a part in FINDING a deep love; my good friend is stunning, huge brown eyes and full lips with nice teeth, as well as being tall and slender. SHE always finds men who genuinely FALL for her, I think her huge eyes and acute beauty does tend to make more men fall harder for her, than a plain girl would find. Alas, the plain girl would still get certain guys to fall hard and in love with her the way my gorgeous friend does, albeit the plain girl possibly LESS enraptured men. ^^^^ this is all given that my stunning friend has a great personality, too. 1
FineFreshFierce Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 I'm by no means saying that unattractive people should never pursue someone attractive. I've seen pretty girls with guys who aren't the best looking but they have an amazing relationship! Most of the time they started out as just friends. So, in my opinion, unattractive people who want to ask out someone more attractive than them should try to meet them in a way where they have a chance to show off other qualities that make them attractive other than looks. I'd say try OLD, I know many girls who have replied to guys who they didn't find that physically attractive, because they liked what they read in their profile. I agree with the OP that cold approaching is not the best way.. Unless you are seen in a fancy car and the girl is shallow.
fabulous Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 ^ This. We can talk about science all we want, but science is macro not micro, and pragmatically speaking 'leagues' only exist to people who believe in them, which unfortunately, is a lot iof people... most, probably. The kicker here is everyone's got their own perspective on what beauty is, which science be damned, makes a mess of the whole concept. It can get so granular that bit becomes stupid. Ask you you like out. They don't like it, they can stay home and cry about how annoying the world is. 'pragmatically leagues do exist. cuz' as you admitted most people believe in them. We live in a democracy and democracies work by enforcing the majority opinion onto the minorities (you in this case), often creating sectors of disadvantage among those minorities (in some ways beauty ideals follow this dynamic too, enforcing white beauty ideals onto everyone, including those who are unsuited to meet those ideals). Note I'm using the word enforce, you have no choice as an individual to buck the system. In this case, there is an overwhelming consensus on what is found to beautiful (thanks to the media perpetuating a narrow set of traits that are revered above others). We all know what those traits are, at least sub consciously. Open up any magazine, or analyze the facial characteristics of your favorite sex symbol movie star. Have a look at the analysis of message patterns taken from OLD sites, with the VAST majority of messages going to an elite few most desired people. This is what I don't understand about the "internal reality" mongers. They don't seem to realize we live in a society, perceptions are interpersonal not solitary. It matters much more what other people think of you than it does what you think of yourself, and this applies to all matters of thoughts/belief systems. If you live in a religious state, then you are by proxy an adherent to its values, whether you believe in them or not. If you live in the West, then either forcefully (in many cases you HAVE to behave a certain way and hold certain beliefs due to family/social pressure). EG dating a black women as an upper class WASP may have social repercussions (racism is a big issue still), or inadvertently, over time you would have become socialized to the beliefs of your environment, this includes absorbing the media message on beauty ideals. If you want to have an idea of the power and scope of the Western media machine, have a look at the rest of the world and its absorbance of White beauty standards. It's shocking (Koreans/Indians/Japs dyeing their hair white,plastic surgery to fit Caucasian bearings etc). Now think of what effect this is going to have on people who live in the West, the people you live with AND DATE. Oh no.
carhill Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Why does it seem like ugly guys are the most agressive? Someone perceived as ugly will generally have negative adjectives, relatively speaking, attached to behaviors which may/will be given a 'pass' from a more attractive person. This bookends on why relatively benign behaviors from 'ugly' people can be perceived as 'creepy' when the same behavior from a more attractive person is perceived as more neutral or even desired. I've noted this, in a practical example, discerning the response of a group of women (my age) reacting to a crude joke told by an attractive gentleman versus a non-attractive (ugly) one. Same material, different mouthpiece, different impression. IMO, it's not that ugly guys are the most aggressive, rather that they 'stand out' (are perceived as aggressive) because they're ugly. Their behaviors have a stronger emotional impact on their audience so they 'seem' more/most aggressive. 3
fabulous Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Forgot to add the larger point -- I'm not a bad looking guy but ultimately you could say those women were "out of my league," yet they wanted me. In some cases, more than I wanted them. But the chemistry was not there. These are women who could have any man they wanted. And they chose me. Leagues exist if you believe in them. Personally, I find that belief to be self limiting and if I believed it, would not be where I am in terms of dating. But to each their own I guess Mr Castle, no offense, it's more of a rhetorical point, but if those women you speak of could have ANY MAN they wanted they would not have chosen you. I think what you mean to say is that they were reasonably attractive and did have other options. This doesn't destroy my points on leagues being real. You did not achieve anything that is unusual by dating an attractive women, by your standards, 1) as was mentioned your perception of attractive is influenced by your own attractiveness. We have no objective view of how attractive those women were, just your anecdotes. 2) you stated you are reasonably attractive yourself, kind of enforcing my argument (IE you indicated you were aware of you and your partners relative attractiveness and you probably if only unaware took that into account in your courtships). Leagues are caused by supply and demand I guess. They are not purposely enacted or written into scripture. There's no/to little rigidity to these leagues either, you can date up or down, a bit. They have to exist, just as prices are different between different items in shopping market based on how rare/desired they are (demand), different people will have different values in the dating market, and no one wants to get "brought" for less than they are worth, just as you wound't sell your car under priced to a stranger cuz' they were nice, benevolence doesn't exist, not in dating anyway.
Mrlonelyone Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 @Leigh and MrCastle and others. You insist that looks are totally subjective except for the extremes. That is a valid opinion and I respect that. I will now cite peer reviewed, published research, a.k.a. facts, about how beauty can be quantified, and analyzed across the whole spectrum. Proof that not only do scientist do this, but they can show that people date and especially marry assortatively to people of roughly equal looks. New ?golden? ratios for facial beauty Vision Research Volume 50, Issue 2, 25 January 2010, Pages 149–154 New “golden” ratios for facial beauty The gist, certain facial proportions are more attractive than others. Am Nat. 2011 May;177(5):605-16. doi: 10.1086/659629. Variation in human mate choice: simultaneously invest... [Am Nat. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI Variation in human mate choice: simultaneously investigating heritability, parental influence, sexual imprinting, and assortative mating. Zietsch BP, Verweij KJ, Heath AC, Martin NG. ......The main discernible pattern of mate choice was assortative mating; we found that partner similarity was due to initial choice rather than convergence and also at least in part to phenotypic matching (looks matching a.k.a. leagues. Now instead of debating if leagues exist we can get on with applying the knowledge of them to find the best mate. 1
Leigh 87 Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Common sense Ninjainpajamas. Too many men have this "internal reality" mindset and think either/and a) women don't have preferences when it comes to looks, b) it doesn't matter what other people think, only their own internal reality matters. I'll believe leagues and looks don't matter when I can date those cute supermodels I see on TV and I desire and I know other men desire, but who only date tall,rich powerful men to the exclusion of the average Joe (sometimes being rich is enough per se). Alternatively, the protagonist in 50 Shades of Grey sounds nothing like the partner most women are with. Most, if not all women, would prefer their partner to be taller, betting looking and richer than he is, and if they could they would change him to suit. I know this is true, cuz' when women have unfettered power in the dating market, EG when they are exceptionally beautiful, they date those "top 1% of men" and not average men. The fact is we all have to compromise, none of us here i'd bargain has ever dated their ideal partner, objectively speaking. We never will, unless we win the lottery or get famous by some modicum of luck. It's part of life and I'd wager many of those unhappy with their dating life are yet to appreciate that chasing Mr/Mrs perfect is a forlorn struggle with little hope of success. I know many women, and men too, like that. Holding out for something special, then ending up alone. I agreed there ARE leagues to some extent. When it comes to looks, however, I think there are only leagues when it comes to either extreme; the very ugly don't generally date super models and vice versa. Aside from the 9s and 10s and 1s and 2s; it's game on. Personality, wit, charm, intellect and kindess all come intl far greater play than the physical attributes alone. AND it's still rude to talk about ane even take note of people who are hideously ugly yet ask out super models. The model should still graciously say no, there is no need for her to go telling people that an ugly short bald guy DARE approach her. 1
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