Tactful question for betrayed spouses regarding marriage

January 3, 2014

So, I have been divorced/single now for 15 years. I am the OW in a seven year friendship with MM.

I want to be as decent and kind when I ask this question, because I know it can push buttons, and I'm not trying to do that, really.

I know what's out there in the dating world. It's pretty rough. I'm in my 40s and all the men my age seem to want younger or they want kids and I'm past that.

I've had several MM in 30 years of sexual awareness. I've worked in a 90% predominant male environment and had close kinship (not sex, but military "brothers") with men that have talked freely about their marriage.

I want to know why the betrayed spouse, whether male or female lets the stereotypical things happen? Withholding of sex or limiting sex (point blank, removing oral sex when you know it is a fave of partner), letting your appearance go, failing to appreciate spouse, forgetting to be romantic. Is it just real life, kids, job, household responsibilities that interfere and people settle into a rut?

I know many people on here didn't do any of the above, they just married someone who in the end betrayed them. I'm truly not trying to single those people out.

A man i dated 20+ years ago when we were both single, contacted me a few months ago when his wife left him. We went out for coffee and lunch a few times and then he took me out for a romantic date. It ended with one of those buckle your knees kisses. It would have gone a lot further, but I stopped him and told him, "I just can't, you are only separated. Your wife is coming back to you."

He was pretty upset that I rejected him. First his wife and then me. He said some stuff and we quit talking. In my mind I forgave him, I knew he was just hurt.

He called a couple of days ago. He wanted to apologize and thank me. He and wife have been back together for a little over two months now. He wanted to know how I was so certain his wife was coming back.

I told him, "because I know what is out there and I know from your detailed descriptions what your wife does and doesn't bring to the table."

She was okay looking, but she was strictly missionary position. She didn't do oral sex, she didn't like to touch him below the waist at all. Sex happened maybe twice a month. She never enjoyed receiving foreplay, she really didn't even like French kissing.

I knew she was going to meet men who would date her, woo her, tell her what she wanted to hear, but once they got the lackluster performance in the bedroom, they would dump her. In the time they were separated, she had three men essentially, "hit it and quit it". She had been a virgin when they married. She learned the hard way that men in the 21st century can be slimy when they want to be a don't make commitments when things are lacking in the bedroom.

My friend is a good guy. His wife realized there may be problems in the marriage, but it is better than the meat market that is out there.

It angers me when I run across women who are blatantly and cheerfully neglecting things in and out of the bedroom. One woman hadn't been in the mood for sex for over two years. She told me, "he made he commitment to me for better or for worse. I guess for him, it is the worse.". By her account, she's not mad at her husband, still says she loves him, he's a good provider and good father.

January 3, 2014

I like the honesty in this post. I think partners forgetting to do the little things is normal especially when the kids hit, then the new career hits, the things that are small but important get forgotten about. Communication is so important and understanding what your partner needs is crucial to happiness but as resentments and life happens communicating what we need and what we have to give get lost in our mess of a life. Always be mindful they can leave, that piece of paper doesn't mean what it once did.

January 3, 2014

Perhaps you should post this in the infidelity section. That is where the BS's are to answer questions like this.

(and ftr, this was not very tactful)

January 3, 2014

This probably should be in the Infidelity section and not the OW/OM section.

In any event I'm not a BS but my response to anyone complaining about their SO is that I take it with a grain of salt. People like to complain about everyone and everything and usually don't reflect on their part in the equation. That said, my automatic response would be to ask them more about their part in their marriage deterioration. There is his side, her side and the truth is somewhere in between usually.

It is highly unlikely that the person complaining is the perfect spouse who all they do is love, care and respect their BS. Usually that person omits or is oblivious to their own shortcomings that may have led to the no sex, lack of intimacy or what have you. I honestly think when it comes on to other people's marriages you should be wary of those who sit around discussing their dirty laundry esp when it is always directed at how much this other person sucks....like really...come on. I get venting but vent with a close friend not coworkers and vent with someone who is fair and knows you and your spouse and can point out your part in it too. That's what I have to say to people who do that and that's how I approach that.

Lady, I'm also curious, where do you run across people blatantly and cheerfully neglecting things in and out of the bedroom? I'm actually asking because I don't really meet people who randomly tell me about their sex life, worse anyone who is cheerful about neglecting things lol. I'm imagining you're checking out at the supermarket and the lady behind you just blurts this out lol. How does it happen? The only people's sex lives I know about are my close friends' and even that is within reason and people on anonymous forums, but I can't say I run into people and know what they are and aren't doing for their spouses. For me the major red flag I see in this is: People who run their mouths too much about their private lives actually spend more energy complaining to others, which opens them up to affairs if they are confiding in opposite sex friends/coworkers, instead of their own spouse and instead of fixing it and that tendency to run their mouth and complain usually reveals someone who isn't very aware of their own role in the demise, as if they were maybe they would spend more time working on things privately rather than making their marriage business a matter for John Public to weigh in on.

January 3, 2014

I don't understand what you're asking. I've never intentionally neglected a partner's needs in the bedroom, and I'm more sexually adventurous than the average person. I've been flogged, set on fire during foreplay, and even had sex in front of an audience of 30 people who were all focused on me... And I still got cheated on.

Yup.

I really think it's time we get away from the mentality that the betrayed person must have done or not done something hence the cheating. Cheating is a personal choice, as lots of people are in marriages which lack sex, this that or the other and don't cheat, so it's not something that is a natural reaction to someone else not doing something.

There are women who are gorgeous, brilliant, sleep with their husbands and give them everything six ways until Sunday and their spouses still cheat and I'm sure some of them will find something to complain about: my wife only swallows on Thursdays, she's so inconsiderate and prudish, she never gives me what I want and need in bed blah blah and cheat.

I personally think it is more productive to figure out why the cheating person chooses this as an option and what part they play in the demise instead of asking the betrayed person what they did wrong.

January 3, 2014

I don't understand what you're asking. I've never intentionally neglected a partner's needs in the bedroom, and I'm more sexually adventurous than the average person. I've been flogged, set on fire during foreplay, and even had sex in front of an audience of 30 people who were all focused on me... And I still got cheated on.

Set on fire? Goodness me. I have never heard of that!

Don't think I will be trying it! Sorry for the t/j...

January 3, 2014

Set on fire? Goodness me. I have never heard of that!

Don't think I will be trying it! Sorry for the t/j...

LOL! Ditto!

January 3, 2014

I, too, find it unsettling that straight attached men are talking to straight single women about their married sex life. That is a huge character red flag for me. I would excuse myself and move the f on.

January 3, 2014

A lot of us DON'T let ourselves go, deny sex or become less romantic. In fact it is quite the opposite.

In my community the overweight and bitchy wives tend to have the most faithful husbands.

I think that rather than you worrying about the BS's behavior, you should look a little closer at the MM you keep company with. A lot of the time they tend to be the ones that are guilty of the behavior you listed above. They tend to be selfish and focused only on what they are NOT getting.

And it is a little off putting coming from a woman that claim to be with several MM over a 30 year period. It tends to make me wonder what is wrong with someone that finds this behavior ok.

January 3, 2014

Based on this theory, I shouldn't have been the one to cheat. Not only that, I shouldn't have even had the opportunity!

Sometimes it really isn't all about sex or physical attraction.

January 3, 2014

There is never an excuse to cheat. Period. And it is never the BS's fault a WS cheats. Don't like your BS? Divorce. Or counselling.

I'm sure someone's going to flame me but I'm not going to change my opinion. My best friend's dad is a serial cheater. I love my bff and her pain is my pain. No OW/OM or WS can convince me otherwise, not when people like my bff, her brother and her mother are suffering at the selfish, stupid actions of her dad, simply because he felt like sticking his penis up some skank's vag. (His excuse? My wife doesn't give me enough lovin' so I'm going to find it somewhere else. Both of them are in MC and he's in IC, and has been for years. It isn't helping him).

January 3, 2014

That was tactful?

Anyhow.... if I had to behave like a performing seal every time I ventured into the bedroom with a new man I'd prefer to stay single!

And I suspect you'd find that those who complain most are those who themselves don't make the effort. No-one just decides to ignore and neglect a spouse just for sheer devilment. It usually comes from a place of hurt and resignation. Relationships don't fail usually because only one partner fails to step up.

January 3, 2014

For every husband who complains about his wife letting herself go, withholding sex, not being as attentive as she used to be.... I'll show you a man who no longer notices when she has her hair done, no longer cares or asks about her day and doesn't help with the house and kids nearly as much as he tells his mistress he does.

MM aren't going to paint themselves in a bad light, but you can bet they have let the marriage go just as much as she has.

January 3, 2014

I wanted to be honest, I'm not a saint and have had a problem when it comes to married men.

I was trying to be tactful. I could have said, "Yo, why dont you blow? And why did you gain 100 pounds?"

I was with a group of 30+ men doing things in Desert Storm/Desert Shield. We were close. They talked.

The woman I described who has cut her husband off was a workout buddy for a few months. But it isn't the first time things like this have been said in my presence.

But focusing on the details rather than the question is an interesting behavior.

Question: I want to know why a spouse does the stereotypical things that can lead a spouse to wander? I'm specifically using sex and apoearance as my examples, both of which can be hot topics.

I'm pretty sure the answer is just: life. Job, kids, home responsibilities, social life, errands. We get older, we get tired, priorities shift, we settle into a rut.

January 3, 2014

For every husband who complains about his wife letting herself go, withholding sex, not being as attentive as she used to be.... I'll show you a man who no longer notices when she has her hair done, no longer cares or asks about her day and doesn't help with the house and kids nearly as much as he tells his mistress he does.

MM aren't going to paint themselves in a bad light, but you can bet they have let the marriage go just as much as she has.

I know I wrote this as the OW and my focus may appear to be totally on the wife as the betrayed spouse, but my ex-husband gained 135 pounds (he was twice my weight at one time) and refused to use his mouth or hands as well.

But, yes, I am interested why men do the stereotypical behaviors as well.

January 3, 2014

.

It angers me when I run across women who are blatantly and cheerfully neglecting things in and out of the bedroom. One woman hadn't been in the mood for sex for over two years. She told me, "he made he commitment to me for better or for worse. I guess for him, it is the worse.". By her account, she's not mad at her husband, still says she loves him, he's a good provider and good father.

Let me share a theory -for some women. Domestication, same old, safe and secure, nice good husband, and lack of competition and variety, are not conducive to passion in the bedroom. Second being married and keeping sex and romance going takes alot of work and effort...doing things you might not "feel like"... and hard work is not inherently sexy. I might refer you to a book from last year for interesting reading

What Do Women Want?: Adventures in the Science of Female Desire: Daniel Bergner: 9780061906084: Amazon.com: Books

January 3, 2014

I think you pretty much answered your own question. For women in particular, maintaining a figure isn't easy after having kids and the hormonal fluctuations that come with aging. Additionally, I think it's a natural consequence of settling in to a relationship. The more comfortable we get with our partner, the less we sweat the little stuff. I'll put on make-up and dress nice when I'm going out, but I'm not going to do that when I'm just hanging around the house or going to the grocery store. My boyfriend has already seen me at my worst, so I don't feel as self-conscious about how I look around him as I did when we first started dating. I'm willing to bet that most men who complain about their wives not putting enough effort into their appearance haven't taken their wives out on a date any time recently.

In my own experience, I have in no way let myself go. I'm not overweight (underweight, actually ), and I stay fit by working out regularly. I give myself a manicure one to two times a week, take good care of my skin, and brush my teeth twice a day. As mentioned before, I'm quite adventurous and have never intentionally neglected my partner's sexual needs and desires. Even my ex's OW thought I was great in bed! Still... I got cheated on.

I know I'm about to go off topic, but I often wonder if I am not able to be realistic anymore.

Most of the problems I had in my first marriage I've been able to alleviate. Money was always an issue and now I'm set to be middle to upper middle class for the rest of my life. I was cranky about being the one to do all the housework, yardwork, errands all while holding a full time job and taking college classes. I now work from home and believe I could have all that down to a science with one other person (if he had children, my confidence wavers in that). Honestly, I was overworked in and out of the house and he couldn't be bothered to change the toilet paper after his measly 8 hour day? I married a spoiled man who was more of a child than a man. I would never do that again...but I'm sure I could be suckered into believing they're self-sufficient, when they are just biding their time.

I would live with a man first, which was taboo the first time around. That would have prevented me from setting a wedding date if I'd done that before.

I keep saying I know what's out there. If I found someone who met my criteria, while there's no guarantee their inner scum wouldn't someday be released, I'd do everything I could to not add to their list of excuses to wander.

But, a huge factor would be there wouldn't be children conceived or raised from birth. Assuming one of his children didn't turn out to be a loser who required us to take custody of a newborn...

January 3, 2014

I am not a BS, but as someone that was in an almost 20yr marriage, I will say that you get used to having someone around. You might even take it for granted. We had other bad dynamics in our relationship that caused the end of our marriage, but ultimately, you do get used to having someone around and a lot of people stop putting in the effort that they did at the beginning. It's completely normal and happens with many people.

With that said, I do not believe that's a reason or excuse for anyone to cheat, even if it's the case.

January 3, 2014

As the thread starter isn't a married person in an affair or suspecting their spouse of one, and the question doesn't concern their married partner(s) directly, rather is a general question for betrayed spouses regarding their own marriages, moderation has moved the thread from OM/OW to GRD and re-titled it for clarity. Please continue!

January 3, 2014

Yup.

I really think it's time we get away from the mentality that the betrayed person must have done or not done something hence the cheating. Cheating is a personal choice, as lots of people are in marriages which lack sex, this that or the other and don't cheat, so it's not something that is a natural reaction to someone else not doing something.

There are women who are gorgeous, brilliant, sleep with their husbands and give them everything six ways until Sunday and their spouses still cheat and I'm sure some of them will find something to complain about: my wife only swallows on Thursdays, she's so inconsiderate and prudish, she never gives me what I want and need in bed blah blah and cheat.

I personally think it is more productive to figure out why the cheating person chooses this as an option and what part they play in the demise instead of asking the betrayed person what they did wrong.

YUP.. when I became a BS I was a part-time aerobics teacher. You could bounce a quarter off my butt. LOL, would really like to have my 30 year old butt back

January 3, 2014

Question: I want to know why a spouse does the stereotypical things that can lead a spouse to wander? I'm specifically using sex and apoearance as my examples, both of which can be hot topics.

The answer, in my very humble opinion is who knows? IF they are doing it, perhaps they don't realize it. Have their loving husbands pointed this out?

However, IF I were doing those things, willfully, assuming that my husband had already addressed with me, then I would certainly expect to have consequences to my marriage.

Edited January 3, 2014 by WasOtherWoman
edited: typo

January 3, 2014

Well there are many variables, but I think what causes a husband/wife to wander is that the relationship stops being a partnership with a fair amount of give and take. Also, I think that some men tend to shift to having their wives care for them and wait on them rather than reciprocal caring and actions. If this would happen, I think everything would fall into place and the physical part of the relationship would no longer me an issue.

January 3, 2014

Well there are many variables, but I think what causes a husband/wife to wander is that the relationship stops being a partnership with a fair amount of give and take. Also, I think that some men tend to shift to having their wives care for them and wait on them rather than reciprocal caring and actions. If this would happen, I think everything would fall into place and the physical part of the relationship would no longer me an issue.

Bingo!!!

The [man] who felt entitled to [have an affair with] the OW was the same [man] who sat for hours on the couch watching the game with his hand down his pants while I cared for a house full of children, cleaned, cooked, helped with homework, did laundry, paid bills....all on top of a full-time demanding job. And when I finally became too tired to do it all and asked him to be a true partner, he "showed me" by [having and affair with] an OW who had no expectations of him.

BTW, even after giving birth to a boatload of children, I am still slim and look years younger than my age. I fix my hair, put on make-up, and never wear sweats unless I am headed for the gym. His own friends have teased him that he got a much better deal than I did.

He cheated because he could - plain and simple. He thought he was entitled to it. He thought I would stay if he got caught. He thought wrongly.

Edited January 3, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Language

January 3, 2014

Question: I want to know why a spouse does the stereotypical things that can lead a spouse to wander? I'm specifically using sex and apoearance as my examples, both of which can be hot topics.

Sex can be many factors for both BHs and BWs: no adventure, painful, hormonal, unsatisfying and a huge one for women....no romance or touching until it is time for intercourse. It all is life...a woman's hormones will fluctuate many times over the course of a marriage. The birth of kids, menopause and birth control can be causes for that. Men is the lose of testosterone over years which can lead to ED.

Appearance/weight go hand in hand and are also effected by age. Majority of women do not maintain the weight after kids, hormone changes and aging. That does not mean that we all become overweight and frumpy. Wrinkles, thinning hair, age spots, sagging etc is natural.

I'm pretty sure the answer is just: life. Job, kids, home responsibilities, social life, errands. We get older, we get tired, priorities shift, we settle into a rut.

I think the problem with this post is that you knocked BSs in trying to gain answers to your question. You also failed to point out that cheaters fall into the same "rut" as you call it.

January 3, 2014

I'm well acquainted a few married couples who have never let themselves go. I'm also familiar with all of these stereotypes being described in this discussion. There was one man in particular who once mentioned something disturbing...

Question: I want to know why a spouse does the stereotypical things that can lead a spouse to wander? I'm specifically using sex and apoearance as my examples, both of which can be hot topics.

...The married man in question shares a similar dysfunctional ideology as you, Lady2163. He would say that he wife behaved in ways that lead him to become sloppy. His wife was blamed for his actions. But how did his wife force him to do anything?

There was a willing choice the moment you raised your hand to volunteer to serve your country. Nobody could force you to pull up your bootstraps and persevere. You had to choose to put in all that hard work, and I thank you for your service. Likewise, all the encouragement, threats, and demands in the world cannot force a spouse to shapen up. These people we're describing must willingly decide to work out, become more adventitious, more romantic, whatever the case might be. People make choices beyond the control of anyone else. As the other woman™, you seemed to have lost all perspective. People choose to cheat through their own willing decisions. There is a very slippery slope in subscribing to the belief that a betrayed wife behaves in ways that can possibly lead to an affair. The most awesome wives in the world are still cheated on and it's because the husband made his own decision. It takes a cheater to decide to commit adultery.

Do you honestly go through life believing that those thirty betrayed wives are to blame for their husbands cheating with you?

What happens when grown men hold themselves to the same standard to justify falling into these stereotypes?

Edited January 3, 2014 by ThatMan
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Tactful question for betrayed spouses regarding marriage

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