bubbaganoosh Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 I found out last night that my wife still loves the OM, how bad is that for me. She's still NC but I think she's thinking about breaking it but she still says she loves me. What are the chances of failure at this point, anyone? If she still loves the OM then what good is a MC? It's not like he has a magic potion that he can pour over her head and the OM is gone. She has to be willing to do so and if she's wavering about it then IMO, tell her that you'll make the decision for her and file for divorce. Why would you want to be with a woman that can't give you the love and respect that you give her? Your giving. She's taking and the scales aren't tipped in your favor. Bet you if you filed, she would light a fire under her own ass and if she does, you better make sure that you set up some real serious rules and boundaries for her to heed. Yeah I know it's sounds hard hearted but it's your life that she's screwing over and you deserve better than your already getting. If she can follow the rules then you have a chance but the minuet she goes back on her word,then drop the hammer.
sidney2718 Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 If she still loves the OM then what good is a MC? It's not like he has a magic potion that he can pour over her head and the OM is gone. She has to be willing to do so and if she's wavering about it then IMO, tell her that you'll make the decision for her and file for divorce. Why would you want to be with a woman that can't give you the love and respect that you give her? Your giving. She's taking and the scales aren't tipped in your favor. Bet you if you filed, she would light a fire under her own ass and if she does, you better make sure that you set up some real serious rules and boundaries for her to heed. Yeah I know it's sounds hard hearted but it's your life that she's screwing over and you deserve better than your already getting. If she can follow the rules then you have a chance but the minuet she goes back on her word,then drop the hammer. Bub, I understand where you are coming from, but people are complex. It is natural that she still has feelings for the OM. What is unusual is that she feels free to discuss this with her husband. Threatening her with divorce if she doesn't stop having feelings for the OM will either make her leave (because she will feel attacked by her H) or make her lie (which is also no good). WW says that she has chosen H. I'd trust her. There really isn't any other choice that does not force her into a bad position. Why not force her into a bad position? Because wives, even cheating wives, are people too. If a reconciliation is wanted, it can't be obtained by force. Emotions can't be turned on or off by a switch. She had feelings for the OM, but she has chosen H. The feelings need to die away. NC has been maintained, right? 2
Author Fredflintstone Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 Fred, how long has she been no contact? I can tell you those feelings do not fade fast. I struggle still with that. I see my xmom very clearly now - for the person he truly is (and it isn't good), but it is hard to divide your heart and mind and get yourself to understand that you were in love with someone who truly didn't exist - a fantasy. But if doesn't make it easier. It takes time. Counseling might help her to sort through all of that and figure out how to pocket it. You are a good man for sticking with her through this because I am sure this hurts you greatly. She has been NC for just over four months. I think her feelings are related to her burden of guilt and the pain she has inflicted upon me. I also told her last night that she's still treating me like crap and I'm not going to take it. I have told her that if she thinks there's even a small chance she wants to be with him then she should go because I'm not in competition with this guy, she's either in or out. She realised at this point that she's making me feel like second best and she said she never thought about that way, I replied, you haven't been thinking at all, that's why we're in this mess. I've told her she can go with him, take my son and see how reality hits home when you actually have to live together instead of snatching choice opportune moments. 4
AlwaysGrowing Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Bub, I understand where you are coming from, but people are complex. It is natural that she still has feelings for the OM. What is unusual is that she feels free to discuss this with her husband. Threatening her with divorce if she doesn't stop having feelings for the OM will either make her leave (because she will feel attacked by her H) or make her lie (which is also no good). WW says that she has chosen H. I'd trust her. There really isn't any other choice that does not force her into a bad position. Why not force her into a bad position? Because wives, even cheating wives, are people too. If a reconciliation is wanted, it can't be obtained by force. Emotions can't be turned on or off by a switch. She had feelings for the OM, but she has chosen H. The feelings need to die away. NC has been maintained, right? I fail to see how a BS wanting a spouse all-in is attacking and it isn't an attack on a BS for a WS to say they still love another. Is it realistic or even a safe bet to TRUST a WS who states how conflicted they are? And it's not about forcing a WS into a bad position, it's about a BS keeping themselves/assets/children safe. I will never understand how someone can advise another that it is perfectly okay for a WS to pine away for a person who hurt and disrespected the BS and that the BS should be okay with it. All I see is a WS who wants to keep the good feelings regarding the affair alive and well. Someone who wants to repair the damage they caused would be in IC, and addressing their choice to cheat. Not telling their BS, it's soooo hard for me when I still love AP, but I am here in body. Wow, some frigging apology that is!!!! Not to mention how attractive of a spouse that makes his WIFE. What exactly would one expect the BS to say? "Why thank you for staying here while you think of the love you shared with the OM.....don't mind me.....I will sit quietly whilst you get lost in those feelings.....if you ever come around I will be waiting patiently....because of course my feelings are of no concern" For crying out loud, a BS has the right to say enough already. They also have the right to say "frankly my dear....I don't give a damn". They are allowed to put their own oxygen mask on before they even consider the person who removed all the oxygen. All because a WS has decided not to change their address does NOT mean that a BS has to put up with anymore bull**** ME ME ME ME ME from the WS. 2
BeholdtheMan Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 I found out last night that my wife still loves the OM, how bad is that for me. She's still NC but I think she's thinking about breaking it but she still says she loves me. What are the chances of failure at this point, anyone? 100% - the chances of you growing a pair = the chances of failure Sounds brutal doesn't it? Life is pretty brutal. If you let her disrespect you while pulling the wool over your eyes with some lame facade, you're doomed to misery. How about finding a woman who isn't in love with a man for whom she betrayed you?
lilmisscantbewrong Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 She has been NC for just over four months. I think her feelings are related to her burden of guilt and the pain she has inflicted upon me. I also told her last night that she's still treating me like crap and I'm not going to take it. I have told her that if she thinks there's even a small chance she wants to be with him then she should go because I'm not in competition with this guy, she's either in or out. She realised at this point that she's making me feel like second best and she said she never thought about that way, I replied, you haven't been thinking at all, that's why we're in this mess. I've told her she can go with him, take my son and see how reality hits home when you actually have to live together instead of snatching choice opportune moments. Well as long as she stays no contact (and that means nothing - no looking on the internet - nothing) it will fade eventually. Four months is not very long, really.. Even Harley (who I don't agree with on a lot) says that there is a withdrawal period. I don't know - for men who were in affairs it might take less time just because of their makeup but for women I think it is probably longer. I failed early on because I kept seeing things on social media. I finally had to remove myself from facebook and everything that surrounded it. It was hard even on professional business sites. And of course where we live - the town we are in - constant triggers. All of those combinations made it so much harder for me because I was constantly passing by something that reminded me - even my house! Moving would have been a whale of a lot easier. This is where I believe my xmom got off way easier - even though he is from this town he doesn't live here so it's not in his face daily. I agree with the posters that say you have to determine how much you can take, however I do not agree with stuffing of emotions - it just doesn't happen that fast or easily depending upon your circumstances. Can you create some fun things to do to create new memories that belong only to you? I know some things that helped for us was joining a yacht club together that I always wanted to be a part of but my husband never felt a need to until recently. Meeting new people that were not associated with xmom and his family and even friends we had together has been helpful. I feel for you Fred, as I felt so bad for my husband that I felt that way for another man besides him. I know it crushed him and for that I am truly sorry. And my husband had his own revenge affair which didn't help things. But here we are - still climbing through it all. Things are looking brighter, but it has ben a few years. Four months is so little time. If you love her, give it some more. 3
peruano99 Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Do what you want, but if she has another affair again then leave her and don't turn back. I don't understand people who have an affair with people who are 20 years older or less attractive than their spouse. 1
Author Fredflintstone Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 Do what you want, but if she has another affair again then leave her and don't turn back. I don't understand people who have an affair with people who are 20 years older or less attractive than their spouse. I'm not bragging but the guy looks like a pitbull chewing a wasp that's been hit with a mallet and he's 20 years older. Just goes to show anyone can do it under the right conditions.
compulsivedancer Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 She has been NC for just over four months. I think her feelings are related to her burden of guilt and the pain she has inflicted upon me. I also told her last night that she's still treating me like crap and I'm not going to take it. I have told her that if she thinks there's even a small chance she wants to be with him then she should go because I'm not in competition with this guy, she's either in or out. She realised at this point that she's making me feel like second best and she said she never thought about that way, I replied, you haven't been thinking at all, that's why we're in this mess. I've told her she can go with him, take my son and see how reality hits home when you actually have to live together instead of snatching choice opportune moments. This is good. Last summer I was really struggling with feelings for OM and maintaining NC. H and I had discussed this but I didn't tell him the extent of my distress. Then, right before our anniversary in June (4.5 months after DDay), he told me that he was really struggling and still not sure whether we were going to make it. It wasn't a 180, but it kind of snapped me back into focus. It made me realize that I was focusing on the wrong thing. It's easy to get sidetracked. Part of what I love about this forum is that it gives me insight into what H is thinking and feeling as a BS. It's also helped me understand the scope (and length) of what R requires, so that I don't make the classic WS mistake of thinking "Why can't he get over this? Why can't he just move on?" 6
Author Fredflintstone Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 So how much more pain is she going to give you? She ripped your heart out of your chest and threw it in the fire. So now she is taking a dump on it. Have she read about what damage she did to you? How would she feel if you had an affair? She does not see the POSOM for what he is. She is in love with a fantasy. I would be careful about counseling. You need one that is against cheating, not one that is for it. I would let her go, and give her the divorce papers. Set her free like you mentioned. Let her go see what he is really like. Let her see that she messed up a good man, for a POSOM. If he will cheat with her, he will cheat on her. He may even have another AP other than your wife. Has she figured out that he has lied to her? Is the OM married? Have you told his wife? If she will not go, then have her sign an agreement that if you divorce, that she gets nothing from you. Sorry you are having this horrible experience. Expose the light on the affair. Affairs love darkness. Tell everybody and post him on cheaterville. He is not married, he cheated on his first wife with his second one. He was trying to engage her in an affair long before she lied to him about being single. He's dated many women from free dating sites so I don't hold much stock in his character. There's other stuff too but let's just say he gives a good impression but doesn't care how he gets what he wants. I should kick her to the curb but I feel there's a real reason to make this work if she can actually beat her own demons of mistrust of pretty much everything. Which is why I was happy about her being honest with me, that took alot, trust me. Her mistrust of me is from previous relationship baggage and family history. She doesn't actually believe it's possible but she is going to try. 1
Author Fredflintstone Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 If she loves the OM then she does not love you in the same way. You cannot nice someone back to you. She knows that no matter what happens you will always be waiting for her which is the wrong attitude because she has no fear of losing you. If you made it clear that you were moving towards divorce she would realize how important you are to her and realize what she has to lose. I've already told her if she goes dont come back. I will not communicate with her unless it's about my son who I would keep if I could. As for her not loving me the same way, I know that but she's here and not there. I've not pressured her to stay here she's said she doesn't feel trapped into being here either. 1
Author Fredflintstone Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 ARG. I feel bad for your situation. How did you find this out? Did she tell you straight out? Did you ask her? Or did it find it in an email to a friend or something? Honestly, I know this may sound weird but as a woman, when I say "I feel angry [insert pretty much any feeling here] it is often the first step to me releasing that feeling. Letting it go. In fact when I say "I love you" to my husband it's because it has almost come to a high tide and I let him know how much I care. When he reciprocates, it's like it fills it up again. If she told you about it, and things were calm not out of anger of cruelty etc. it probably hit a sort of "high tide " with her because, sorry, but she misses him. But she told YOU not HIM. He isn't there to reciprocate and fill it back up again. The wave will go down unless she feeds it somehow. He will fade and the switch will flip. Honestly, the MORE she feels safe to talk about it with you. (I know, sooooo much fun). The quicker it will probably fade. Maybe try thinking of it as her vomiting out those emotions to get rid of the poison. Just my humble opinion. It seems that you still wish to reconcile with her. I found out because I always suspected And during a calm period I asked her. I gauged her reaction, talked about it abit more and I could see she was getting emotional so I pressed my advantage and she told me in a flood of tears. She felt upset for telling me because she knew it would crush me but I didn't let it show too much. I told her that she should go live with him, I even tried to convince her to go but she didn't want to. I don't want to get in the way of her happiness. But she knows that it's all on her, her mistrust made me depressed years ago, didn't go anywhere or do anything. I was very resentful and unhappy but I still loved her, I'm one of those stupid knight in shining armour guys, I am stupid. I feel her feelings of me were the result of her not letting me live and thus not being happy and thus not having happiness in the marriage alot of the time. I know if we address her issues, she tried before with CBT we will be much happier.
RightThere Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 I'm not bragging but the guy looks like a pitbull chewing a wasp that's been hit with a mallet and he's 20 years older. Just goes to show anyone can do it under the right conditions. People always cheat down, not up. My STBXW is a serial cheater and all the guys she cheated with were huge losers. I really try to think that I feel that way because of the infidelity, but they are absolute zeros. They cheat down with loser because the OM/OW will be so surprised they've got someone "out of their league" that they will drown them in affection and attention because they know they couldn't even do better. Part of the trap that cheaters fall into. 1
Author Fredflintstone Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 Well I'll be the other view here, but it is totally normal that she is still in love with him. Not sure how long their relationship really was, but to her, she is going though the depression of a real break-up. It sucks for you because you need to sit and wait for her to grieve. My advice is providing she is NC and doing the right things for reconciliation, it's OK for you to wait. You'll need to be nice to her and supportive because she probably feels like she shouldn't have these feelings, even though they are real to her. Some people will tell you to go 180, but if you wife is doing the right things (outside of still having feelings for the OM) then right now it is OK to be supportive. That doesn't mean spineless, however. If she's not doing the other things required for reconciliation (counselling, owning the affair) then you are in fake reconciliation and you need to then change course to the 180. Good luck It was a year and two months online and five months of them meeting up. She thought she was just friends with him but fell in love. They had brief sex which I now know she allowed because she thought our marriage was over and her feelings. Only after the sex part did she realise she was in an affair, her emotional state and other circumstances all came together for this to happen. She just wrapped herself up in her own lies to validate it while it was happening. Until I shed the cold light of day on things. 1
Author Fredflintstone Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 People always cheat down, not up. My STBXW is a serial cheater and all the guys she cheated with were huge losers. I really try to think that I feel that way because of the infidelity, but they are absolute zeros. They cheat down with loser because the OM/OW will be so surprised they've got someone "out of their league" that they will drown them in affection and attention because they know they couldn't even do better. Part of the trap that cheaters fall into. He's no dead beat, just a douchebag.
Author Fredflintstone Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Then tell her to go to him and leave you alone. I have, many times, I would rather she did than not really want me for me. I don't want her if it's for any other reason than she made a huge mistake and she realises what and idiot she's been. Seems that way at the moment. Edited January 3, 2014 by Fredflintstone 1
2.50 a gallon Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Most of us do not realize the power of love chemicals. For the most part, we men are first attracted to our mates by her looks, her sexiness. It is only later that other factors come is and the love grows. Women on the other hand, while they too are attracted by a man's looks, they are equally attracted if not more attracted by their emotional side. How many times have you asked yourself, not only about your wife, but other couples you have seen, "What does she see in him?" The answer is simple, looks have nothing to do with it, he has touched her emotionally, and her body is now flooding her brain with love chemicals. To be and do things with him makes her happy, and he becomes a part of her life, and she looks forward in being able to do things with him in the future. It is totally like being addicted to drugs. In this case, it is drugs that her body is producing. In a good and loving relationship, such as marriage, it is a good addiction that glues the two together Also, what most men and women do not realize is that there is a predator class of men, who do understand how love chemicals work, and use them to their advantage in seducing women. From what I have read the OM is in this class. Also, from what you have posted, it does sound like, she is trying to break away, and break this addiction. Just like a addict she is going through withdrawal and it will take time for her body to quit producing the love chemicals for him 2
Author Fredflintstone Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 Most of us do not realize the power of love chemicals. For the most part, we men are first attracted to our mates by her looks, her sexiness. It is only later that other factors come is and the love grows. Women on the other hand, while they too are attracted by a man's looks, they are equally attracted if not more attracted by their emotional side. How many times have you asked yourself, not only about your wife, but other couples you have seen, "What does she see in him?" The answer is simple, looks have nothing to do with it, he has touched her emotionally, and her body is now flooding her brain with love chemicals. To be and do things with him makes her happy, and he becomes a part of her life, and she looks forward in being able to do things with him in the future. It is totally like being addicted to drugs. In this case, it is drugs that her body is producing. In a good and loving relationship, such as marriage, it is a good addiction that glues the two together Also, what most men and women do not realize is that there is a predator class of men, who do understand how love chemicals work, and use them to their advantage in seducing women. From what I have read the OM is in this class. Also, from what you have posted, it does sound like, she is trying to break away, and break this addiction. Just like a addict she is going through withdrawal and it will take time for her body to quit producing the love chemicals for him I have researched this and realise it only too well, that's exactly what I think he's done.
peruano99 Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 I'm not bragging but the guy looks like a pitbull chewing a wasp that's been hit with a mallet and he's 20 years older. Just goes to show anyone can do it under the right conditions. Did she say she loves him more than you?
AlwaysGrowing Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 This is good. Last summer I was really struggling with feelings for OM and maintaining NC. H and I had discussed this but I didn't tell him the extent of my distress. Then, right before our anniversary in June (4.5 months after DDay), he told me that he was really struggling and still not sure whether we were going to make it. It wasn't a 180, but it kind of snapped me back into focus. It made me realize that I was focusing on the wrong thing. It's easy to get sidetracked. Part of what I love about this forum is that it gives me insight into what H is thinking and feeling as a BS. It's also helped me understand the scope (and length) of what R requires, so that I don't make the classic WS mistake of thinking "Why can't he get over this? Why can't he just move on?" This post is so very important. NC also means mental NC. Until that happens, a WS is still in the affair. It is a way for the WS to not take responsibility and do the work necessary to achieve true R. In a nutshell.....they wallow. It is easy because....it is easy. Looking at yourself and what you did is freaking hard and painful. Not pleasant at all. However, by taking the reins....a WS becomes more confident, more self assured. You can actually feel the difference in them. They are the ones that come to YOU with something they learned about themselves. Of ways to improve the relationship. Believe me...you want a WS who is driving their own bus....not one that is a passenger in yours. 4
Author Fredflintstone Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 Did she say she loves him more than you? No she told me she loves me more than she loves him, but she thought I didn't love her, until it was too late, ofcourse.
Author Fredflintstone Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 This post is so very important. NC also means mental NC. Until that happens, a WS is still in the affair. It is a way for the WS to not take responsibility and do the work necessary to achieve true R. In a nutshell.....they wallow. It is easy because....it is easy. Looking at yourself and what you did is freaking hard and painful. Not pleasant at all. However, by taking the reins....a WS becomes more confident, more self assured. You can actually feel the difference in them. They are the ones that come to YOU with something they learned about themselves. Of ways to improve the relationship. Believe me...you want a WS who is driving their own bus....not one that is a passenger in yours. From what she's told me, she doesn't think about him all that much. When I moved out for a month she told me she missed me every night I wasn't here and cried nearly every night. She never thought of him at all when I wasn't with her she only thought about me not being there and she became depressed even more than she was before. I remember one night she was phoning me and I was asleep, I heard a knock at the door and she was stood there almost in tears, panicking. I asked her what was wrong, she said she thought I was cheating on her because I didn't answer the phone and that she wasn't sure if she could live like that, it's abit rich really but that's what happened. 1
2.50 a gallon Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 When I was 28, I met an Hispanic girl of 22, working at the local sporting goods store. The most beautiful woman I had ever seen, she looked like a young Sophia Loren. I used to shop there quite often, baseball glove, bat, volleyball, clothes and after that I always made sure she was at the register and chose a time they weren't busy, so I could once again ask her for a date. Over the next 10 weeks, I was turned down at least a half dozen times. I struck out with the best restaurant in town, tickets to the hottest concerts, tickets that were hard to come by. One Wednesday where I worked we were told that the shop was going to be closed the next day, and every body got Thursday off. On the way home, I stopped by her store on bought a supply of night crawlers. Then off handedly asked her if she wanted to go fishing with me the next morning. To my shock, she said yes. But then went on to remind me that she was in no way attracted to me. I was too old, too short, too poor. I am a T-shirt and blue jeans guy and she knowing she had her pick of men only dated men in business suits. And I was non Hispanic. I was later to find out that she had two regular guys she was seeing, one #1 she had been dating for almost a year, occasional sex, he was to be her Friday night date. #2 she had been dating just a few months, was the son of a prominent local politician, her Saturday night with him, was to go to a big ball for the sons of the local up and comers. Complete with limo service. It was her chance to play the part of Cinderella and had already sown her self a fancy ball gown. She was an excellent seamstress. And she had pretty much made up her mind, that #2 was going to get lucky that night for the first time. The reason she said yes, was she knew I was a good fisherman, she had never fished, wanted to try it, and had never been to the river. On the way to the river that morning she let me know that we were never going to be BF and GF. By pure luck I did everything right that day, cooked hot dogs over a fire, went for a walk along the river bank, talked about how hard it was to find that special someone spend the rest of my life with, and when removed her shirt and shorts to reveal a stunning bikini and came into the river for a swim with me, I had to balls, to horse around with her, and ever stole a kiss. For which I was once again reminded WE were never going to happen. And we also caught several fish. She wanted eat the fish she caught so it was easy to get her to come back to my place for a fish fry. As we got to the car she surprised me with a atr least 5 minute lip lock and body rub. At my place, she loved the fish and the bottle of wine, and by 9 that evening we were hitting the sheets. I took her home exhausted at around midnight. The next day I was filled with hope, that at least I had made it to #3 on her list. Imagine my surprise when I answered a knock at my door about 5:30 to find her standing there with a pizza and wanting a repeat of the previous night. BF #1 had already been told they were through, and with my permission she would still like to go to the ball, but he was already toast. A complete turn around in less than 24 hours. We were together for almost 3 years, and were even engaged when it fell apart. 1
compulsivedancer Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 2.50, it's a great story, but I'm not sure how it illustrates the power of love chemicals.
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