LoveHurtz Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 After the great responses I got from my "Another email from W" post...I shared some of the responses w/ MM. This is his response to me by email: That response is about the biggest load of BS I have read. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't give a damn about what someone on a message board thinks about my situation. They have had their own experiences and their opinion is based on those experiences. First of all I have told her not to contact you and you know that. The reason why we had the big blow up last night was because of that. I care very much about how you feel and what this has done to you and to possibly us, and nobody on some message board can tell me I don’t. They are not me. Second this person has the nerve to call someone a coward because of an obviously difficult situation. This person is on this message board for a reason. They have experienced some of these similar issues themselves which means they too have experienced moments of emotional fear. I have a hard enough time dealing with my own feelings to entertain the opinions of what someone who has never met me, thinks I feel. Please don’t take this response as me being angry towards you. It just amazes me how some people can form such self-righteous opinions about a situation they really don’t know about. I know I have flaws just like the person who wrote the response. I am by know means perfect, but I am far from some misguided fool who has no feelings for anyone but himself. I hope you know that about me. Everyone is not the same. I don't know if he is getting defensive b/c it struck a nerve or what.
alphamale Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Originally posted by LoveHurtz After the great responses I got from my "Another email from W" post...I shared some of the responses w/ MM. This is his response to me by email: That response is about the biggest load of BS I have read. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't give a damn about what someone on a message board thinks about my situation. Man, this dude could teach ME a few things about manipulating and lying to women and makeing them feel guilty.
whichwayisup Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Ok I can see one thing for sure, he has alot feelings...Not sure what it means but they are there. He is right...We don't know what is going on his head or what he thinks/feels/does...We only know from what you tell us, what we read between the lines and yes, probably assume waaay too much. But that is part of advice, helping out others with our own experiences and also putting ourselves in eachother's shoes...Each situation is different. Thing he should know is this support for you. You need to vent, have people listen and help YOU through this. Don't let him make you feel bad about posting here.
Author LoveHurtz Posted January 7, 2005 Author Posted January 7, 2005 THANKS WHICHWAYISUP!! You are right, this is for me. I guess I shared w/ him to try and get him to see the light. But, I won't do that anymore.
whichwayisup Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Yup! Either way you got a 'reaction' from him!! Glad to help ya and keep on posting.
Owl Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 I find it interesting that he's willing to admit the people who have responded to your posts HAVE been in similar situations, but turn right around and says that they couldn't possibly understand. Typical double logic from someone who doesn't want to face reality. Regardless, good luck and stay strong LoveHurtz!
LucreziaBorgia Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 I keep coming back to this that the W said in her email to you: This is a new year for us and we are making plans to move on and secure a future for our family. We will not allow you to impede our progress. Is the H saying that this is not the case and that the W is making that up? Is the W aware that you and he are still in contact? Why is he so insistent that the W not contact you? Is he genuinely concerned for your feelings or do you think he might have ulterior motives for making sure that the W and OW don't talk? Just curious.
Author LoveHurtz Posted January 7, 2005 Author Posted January 7, 2005 Originally posted by LucreziaBorgia Is the H saying that this is not the case and that the W is making that up? Is the W aware that you and he are still in contact? Why is he so insistent that the W not contact you? Is he genuinely concerned for your feelings or do you think he might have ulterior motives for making sure that the W and OW don't talk? Just curious. H is saying that this is W's perspective..that is what she wants. W does know that we are in contact. That is what is pissing her off. She wants me to call her instead of talking to H. He doesn't want her contacting me b/c he doesn't want her going off on me.
whichwayisup Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 H is saying that this is W's perspective..that is what she wants. W does know that we are in contact. That is what is pissing her off. She wants me to call her instead of talking to H. He doesn't want her contacting me b/c he doesn't want her going off on me. EEEEKKK...Well just watch your back out and about. Do you have a pet dog?
Author LoveHurtz Posted January 7, 2005 Author Posted January 7, 2005 No, no dog. But, she is a schoolteacher...I don't think she will risk losing her job to get back at me. But, I guess even schoolteachers can lose it.
Owl Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Question... He doesn't want her to contact you because he doesn't want her going off on you....or because he wants to continue the affair and let the wife think the affair is over?
Author LoveHurtz Posted January 7, 2005 Author Posted January 7, 2005 W knows we are still in contact. He has told her that, that is why she wants to talk to me.
littleflowerpot Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Originally posted by Owl Question... He doesn't want her to contact you because he doesn't want her going off on you....or because he wants to continue the affair and let the wife think the affair is over? or because he doesn't want y'all to compare notes?
Owl Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 OK...so I'm not getting what's going on here. She knows that you're still in contact, but trying to convince YOU to leave her husband alone? Why are you still in contact if he is telling her that he wants to work on his marriage? Sounds to me like he's lying somewhere still. I can understand her wanting to get you to break off contact...when my wife was insistent in maintaining a friendship with her OM after the affair, I was (of course) adamant about breaking it off completely. And when I finally got her to send an email to him ending that contact, I followed it up with a politely worded one asking him to "walk away". It wasn't flaming or angry at all...just asking him to let us work on our marriage. And they've not had contact since. It seems to me that your MM is still decieving his wife...there is no way he's HONESTLY working on rebuilding his marriage if he wants to maintain contact with you. Again, not flaming you, and it's not my issue one way or another how this all ends up. I can understand why the wife is angry and hurting right now...she's still losing her battle to end the affair and re-build her marriage. By all means...if you don't intend to break off the affair either, there's no reason at all for you to continue contact with her. You might consider calling him out on this tho...I really can't see how he's trying to end either one of his relationships...looks to me like he's trying to maintain status quo and keep you both. Good luck friend!
murasaki Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Okay, as I've said a few times already, I've never been on any side of an affair, but I think when it comes to being an OM/OW, those of us who have been in frustrating relationships with people who really aren't good for us can relate on many levels. LoveHurtz, as I've already pointed out to you, your guy is demonstrating some rather distrubing tendencies right now, things that don't bode well for anyone being happy in a relationship with him, divorce or no divorce. And you replied that you know that its the circumstances he's in more than his true character. I won't dispute that with you ... although I will say that I've prolonged my torture in more than one far-from-ideal relationship by believing in my beloved's true character, and only belatedly realized what an idealized view I had of that character. Anyway, to respond to your latest news, here's my question: why would you need to tell your guy what we think? To me that's yet another red flag: if your voice & opinions don't bear enough weight in their own right, then they're not sufficiently valued in your relationship with this guy. You say you're unhappy with how things have been: his wife contacting you, etc. He tells you he's doing the best he can, and that if you'd just hang in there patiently he'll get this all sorted out. So you agree to wait patiently, but the wife keeps contacting you, and things don't improve. ... Now right there, you yourself ought to have enough confidence in your judgment & perception to say to him, "hey, not only is it not improving it's getting worse. This is unacceptable to me. Fix it now or forget about me!" And you should mean it! No one understands him. Oh yeah, right. I'm with you, I know what it's like to see the goodness at a core of a person, to believe in that person and know in your heart that if circumstances were just a bit different, things would be so much better. Here's what you also need to add to that picture: he created the circumstances that he's in. As much as he has the wonderful qualities you see, he also has weaknesses that have put him where he is now, and which are prompting him to behave as he is. Sure, his current circumstances might be difficult. But if they are, whose fault is that? I think at some people, perhaps women in particular, get to the point where the relationship itself becomes the primary focus, to the exclusion of current happiness and/or the likelihood of future happiness. We focus on the narrow possibilities that, if they came to pass, would result in happiness in the current relationship -- ignoring the much larger likelihood that such happiness is unlikely to occur because of the negative things that we're willfully ignoring. I'm just emerging from a post-break-up funk. It was hard going for a while, and it took its toll on me. Once I let go of the idea of having a relationship with my ex (and it was hard to do, and I know there's no universal formula for getting there), I saw all the many ways that I would have been unhappy if circumstances had been different and he and I had stayed together. Anyway: you've had to bring in a chorus of online voices to try to get this guy to acknowledge that he's not doing right by you. Even then he has shut you down. What does that tell you?
BoatingBabe Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 I saw screw what he wants and talk to her, as someone here suggested, she may want to compare notes...He may be (and probably is) telling her something completely different. Why we are afraid to talk to the other woman is beyond me. I wouldn't make it a face to face contact...But I'd certainly let her call me. Who knows, maybe you will be enlightened and you can decide whether to stick around or to just go....Or does that frighten you?
Author LoveHurtz Posted January 7, 2005 Author Posted January 7, 2005 Originally posted by Owl OK...so I'm not getting what's going on here. She knows that you're still in contact, but trying to convince YOU to leave her husband alone? Why are you still in contact if he is telling her that he wants to work on his marriage? He isn't telling her he wants to work it out, that is the thing. She is trying to talk me out of the picture because she thinks things will be ok without me in the mix. But, like I said, the marriage was a sham from the beginning. He knows he should have put the wedding off, but he felt obligated to go through with it. He didn't want to disappoint everyone. So, he's been living for her, her family, etc. for the last year. He is finally now trying to be honest b/c he knows its the only redemption he can get....through complete honesty about his feelings. So, that is why they have been arguing the last couple of days and she wants to talk to me. She is in denial it seems.
Author LoveHurtz Posted January 7, 2005 Author Posted January 7, 2005 Originally posted by murasaki Anyway, to respond to your latest news, here's my question: why would you need to tell your guy what we think? I guess I thought telling him an outsiders view would knock some sense into him and let him see some valid points.
Owl Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Originally posted by LoveHurtz He isn't telling her he wants to work it out, that is the thing. She is trying to talk me out of the picture because she thinks things will be ok without me in the mix. But, like I said, the marriage was a sham from the beginning. He knows he should have put the wedding off, but he felt obligated to go through with it. He didn't want to disappoint everyone. So, he's been living for her, her family, etc. for the last year. He is finally now trying to be honest b/c he knows its the only redemption he can get....through complete honesty about his feelings. So, that is why they have been arguing the last couple of days and she wants to talk to me. She is in denial it seems. Hmmm....I can see her point. And yours. So he's being honest for a change...great! So what IS his plan at this point? I can't imagine what it would be like trying to live with my wife and telling her that I plan on leaving her...matter of fact, I can think back to after my wife's affair was discovered and she didn't leave. For the first few weeks, she kept saying that she HADN'T made up her mind, and that she still might go to be with him. So I can imagine how horrible the wife is feeling at the moment. BUT...what can you expect from her? He's still with her...still living in the same house. He hasn't left...so what is she supposed to think he's going to do? The ONLY way that he's going to end this struggle is to get out completely. Or to dump you completely. He can't have both...can't try to live in both of your lives now that she's aware of what is going on. I really think this is a case where either you or her need to issue an utlimatum and stick to your guns! Bluntly, I feel no pity for him. He created this entire situation himself...now he's got to get the guts to do something to end it. It doesn't sound so far like he's done that....he's just prolonging it by trying to keep both of you in his life. Hang in there!
Author LoveHurtz Posted January 7, 2005 Author Posted January 7, 2005 Originally posted by Owl Bluntly, I feel no pity for him. He created this entire situation himself...now he's got to get the guts to do something to end it. It doesn't sound so far like he's done that....he's just prolonging it by trying to keep both of you in his life. Hang in there! You're right Owl, I have no pity for him either. I agree that he created this reality. He says he isn't trying to keep us both, which is why he is being honest. It does take a bit of time though as far as living arrangements etc. He has nowhere to go and has to get into his own apt. But, I have given him the ultimatum. He said he wants to be with me, so that is why he is now being honest with her. I do feel bad for her, I know how hurt and betrayed she must feel. But, pain is part of life. And, she may not know it now but she's better off with someone that truly loves and cherishes her.
whichwayisup Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 You're right Owl, I have no pity for him either. I agree that he created this reality. He says he isn't trying to keep us both, which is why he is being honest. It does take a bit of time though as far as living arrangements etc. He has nowhere to go and has to get into his own apt. But, I have given him the ultimatum. He said he wants to be with me, so that is why he is now being honest with her. I do feel bad for her, I know how hurt and betrayed she must feel. But, pain is part of life. And, she may not know it now but she's better off with someone that truly loves and cherishes her. If he does chose you over his wife...Let him be on his own for a while. Stop all physical contact and go on lunch dates, walks and coffee talks. Casual. Either way he is going to need alot of healing time to get over the rollercoaster. I DO NOT feel sorry for him, I'm not defending him either...But anybody who has a brain can see that this guy needs to be alone and sort of himself and learn how to BE again without anybody around. That way when he does deal with the emotions, then he will be more free of giving you PURE love and honesty rather than moving out of one house, a marriage and right into another house, new life and new relationship. I hope this makes sense. All the best.
fanou22 Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 From your posts, we all understand that he wants to be with you instead of his wife. My questions is that why is he stringing everyone along while he makes his decision. Obviously the W knows about you but we do not know to what extent. If living arrangements are what is keeping him at home, then he can start by finding a place of his own and go from there. Between you and his W, each one demanding a decision is not easy (though I am not sympathizing with him). At the point the best thing you do is initiate a NC until it is all over. You have to exercise self-control and not answer his calls and reply to his e-mails. Of course you could always inform him of your decision of NC. Give him 2-3 weeks or as much as you think he is worth it. If he hasn't done anything by then, you move on with your life. Otherwise you would be the one entangling herself in all the drama.
LucreziaBorgia Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 I think a NC is best too. If the guy fully intends to leave his wife, give him some interrupted time to get the message across to her and get it done. Two things seem hinky, though: 1. The wife is adamant that they are working things out, and have pledged themselves to making their relationship stronger. 2. The husband went apecrap over his wife contacting you - and seems determined that you two not meet or talk. Here's why its weird. The wife would have to be psychologically delusional in a true sense to be so sure about what she is saying if the husband has made it clear that he is not interested in fixing the relationship and in fact intends to continue seeing the OW. When a wife knows that it is over, and she knows that her husband intends to continue his relationship with the OW, she's not going to call the OW and tell her that she and her husband are working on the marriage. She would assume that the OW obviously already knows that isn't the case. I just can't understand why she would be saying stuff like that... unless the husband has not been as forthcoming about the situation as he is telling you. I still think that he is either directly or indirectly giving his wife the impression that there is hope for saving their marriage. I can't think of any other logical explanation (barring a possible case of mental illness and hallucinations/delusions). As for the reaction and fighting over his wife contacting you - it sounds more like he doesn't want you getting her side of the story. Maybe for your heart and sanity's sake, you might want to consider NC to get your head and heart together over the matter. You may find that some totally uninterrupted reflection time might give you the 'aha' insight that is missing from this whole deal.
SummerRae Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Originally posted by littleflowerpot or because he doesn't want y'all to compare notes? That sounds about right....
SummerRae Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Originally posted by Owl Hmmm....I can see her point. And yours. So he's being honest for a change...great! So what IS his plan at this point? I can't imagine what it would be like trying to live with my wife and telling her that I plan on leaving her...matter of fact, I can think back to after my wife's affair was discovered and she didn't leave. For the first few weeks, she kept saying that she HADN'T made up her mind, and that she still might go to be with him. So I can imagine how horrible the wife is feeling at the moment. BUT...what can you expect from her? He's still with her...still living in the same house. He hasn't left...so what is she supposed to think he's going to do? The ONLY way that he's going to end this struggle is to get out completely. Or to dump you completely. He can't have both...can't try to live in both of your lives now that she's aware of what is going on. I really think this is a case where either you or her need to issue an utlimatum and stick to your guns! Bluntly, I feel no pity for him. He created this entire situation himself...now he's got to get the guts to do something to end it. It doesn't sound so far like he's done that....he's just prolonging it by trying to keep both of you in his life. Hang in there! Totally amazingly, insightful! Thanks for shedding light on a complicated, yet simple issue Owl!
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