kissy Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Hi all! I am new here and really don't know where else to go. Here's the situation, I have been married to my DH for almost 3 years now. We have 2 daughters. Ok so I have this guiy friend that lives many many states away and we've been friends since before DH and I got together. Anyway, when dh and I first got together we had this big fight because the friend and I were emailing eachother. Nothing bad but one of the emails said Love you and Miss you. (I say this to all my friends and family out of habit) so that was a big fight (I know sounds stupid now that I'm writing it). Anyway, a few months back DH asked if I had spoken to friend at all and I said no. Unfotunaltey I lied becuase I knew that even though we were just friends it would still really make DH mad. I don't know what the hell I was thinking. Anyway, last night DH went snooping into my email account and found a couple emails (about 4 in the last 2 months) one of them was from over a month ago when we were having a bit of problems and DH was never home and stuff. Anyway, it just said how I was ready for the holidays to be over and stuff and I had made a comment, lets run to bora bora together. then he responded, wich you could come see me and I wrote back I'd be there if I could! What a dumb ass I am! So Dh says I am cheating on him because even writing an email is considered cheating (he knows that friend lives far far away and I have never left my state to go anywhere as I am a stay at home mom). I have apologized and said what a dummy I am, and also explained that although the ONE email he read said that, all the rest were just Hey how are you emails. Anyway, my question is, what should I do, short of apologizing of course? Any advice is appreciated just please don't chew me out as I already know I screwed up! Thanks in advance!
Devildog Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Why short of apologizing to your husband exactly? I would suggest stopping ALL contact with the friend if you truly want to fix this situation. I don't think anything less will satisfy your husband. Let me guess, anything short of apologizing and ending all contact with the friend right?
Author kissy Posted January 7, 2005 Author Posted January 7, 2005 I did just email friend saying that I can't talk to him anymore and also that I probably shouldn't have in the first place since I am happily married and knew deep down it might upset DH. "Short of apologizing" I mean do I need to get on my knees and grovel? I really do love my husband with all my heart, unfortunatly I had a very stupid lapse in judgment that won't happen again!
Devildog Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Then you have done the most important things you need to do. Next make sure to put your husbands mind at ease. Make sure he knows you are all about him and no other guy. Reassure him. And getting on your knees never hurts from a guys point of view
Sharmaine Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Well I guess that one can understand your husband making a huge fuss and have suspicions that you may be cheating, because you are being 'secretive' about mailing your male friend. Regardless of the fact that you may be keeping the contact 'secret' because you know your H won't like it, your H will be thinking along the lines that if it wasn't a 'big deal', then why keep it secret from him? Your H however, should have the common sense to know and to realise that there isn't anything going on between you two. It's not as though this other guy is an 'ex' of yours, but he is in fact a 'mere' friend that you knew BEFORE you and H ever got together. It's a big shame when one cannot have 'friends' outside of a marriage I feel and in particular, to be able to maintain friendships with those whom one may have known 'long before' the husband/wife may have come along. And those people who insist that their other half do not have any friends (male or female), have trust issues that run really deep IMO......along with no confidence, lack of self esteem, etc, etc. He'll be buying you a cage next!
LucreziaBorgia Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 The problem in this case sounds like a failure to communicate. He apparently did not share with you his reasons for wanting you to sever the friendship, and you apparently did not share with him why the friendship is important to you and not a threat. What happened is that he made a demand based on what he feels is interaction which will harm your marriage, and in response you were dishonest so that you could protect what in your mind is harmless. The fact that you were dishonest about it would make him think that you had something to hide and that it was probably more than you were letting on. He will not realize that you lied as a reaction to his insistence that you stop emailing this guy: he will only see what he wants to see: that you are having an affair. Pretty much everything you did and said was "proof" to him. It will be very, very difficult to make him see otherwise since it was a sore spot and an insecurity for him to begin with. Some people think that when you are married, that all opposite sex friendships should end. You may not share that belief, but your husband probably does. What needs to happen is a compromise that will work for both of you. He has the need to feel secure in the marriage, and you have the right to have friends. Apologize for the dishonesty. Then you two need to really talk about the situation - get counseling if necessary to help your husband understand your motives and actions, and you his.
whichwayisup Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 I don't know what the hell I was thinking. Anyway, last night DH went snooping into my email account and found a couple emails My first question is how does one stumble into somebody elses email account? Did he have access to your password? Just curious... Men and women can be friends. I have several male friends, many I grew up with and afew I met in my previous job. I include my H in any new guy friends that come into my life...But my past guy friends are just that! FRIENDS. We get together, we're silly, we're crass, rude, and laugh our asses off together! My husband says hearing me laugh like that makes HIM feel good cuz of my friends. Just don't cross the line with this guy friend of yours. Don't talk about anything 'inappropriate' that your H would find reason to doubt you. Don't talk sexy talk with him, just be friends. Allow your H to read the emails he wants. But if he really DOES feel uncomfy with the friendship then maybe it is time to sit and be honest have a talk. Good luck.
Pocky Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 It is unacceptable that he read your personal email. I'm a big advocate of a right to privacy and in my opinion, reading email compromises that right. You stated that this person is a friend that you had before your husband - did you ever date him? Is there any reason why your husband should be so jealous of this male friend? I don't consider anything wrong with what you did. I don't consider your joke about running to Bora Bora wrong. I don't consider you having a friendship with someone that lives in different states wrong. I do consider your husband reading your email wrong. I do consider your husband "laying down the law" and demanding you stop talking to a friend, when he has no reason for this behavior, wrong. Unless there's something you've left out, your husband's behavior is extremely childish. You should let him know how lucky he is that you put up with this - no way in hell my husband would allow me to act this way to him nor would I allow my husband to act this way with me.
Owl Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Is email cheating? Kind of interesting that you used this as your opening question, instead of saying something like "Hubby checked my email, and thinks something is wrong...". You might really stop and think about what prompted you to ask the original question you titled this thread under. I'm not in your situation, but it makes me wonder if there is something more to this than you've said so far. As far as answering your question...take a look at what happened in my case, and you tell me if you feel that email/internet can be considered cheating. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t49539/ You were dishonest with your husband about what was going on. And this was concerning someone you had known a longer time than you knew your husband. And the one email he read said something about running away together. How do you expect your husband to react?? Married people CAN have opposite sex friends. BUT...you have to be darned careful about setting boundaries to make sure that you don't cross the line. Case in point...what happened with my wife. Talking about problems with your marriage and/or your spouse with an opposite sex friend is ALWAYS a no-no. It's easy to misconstrue your intent, and it's easy for them to provide the sympathy, and then emotional intimacy that you should be getting from your spouse. Advice- If you've got nothing to hide...hide nothing. Give your husband full access to your emails, IM's, etc... Let him know the full truth about what happened, apologize for having "crossed the line", and reassure him that everything is fine. And show him what limits your going to set for any other opposite sex friends so that he realizes that he CAN trust you. Once he sees that your actions match your promises, he'll relax, and this should be over.
Devildog Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Originally posted by Sharmaine Your H however, should have the common sense to know and to realise that there isn't anything going on between you two. It's not as though this other guy is an 'ex' of yours, but he is in fact a 'mere' friend that you knew BEFORE you and H ever got together. Just because it isn't an "ex" doesn't mean there is nothing there. My wife never dated the "friend" she ended up throwing our marriage away over. Well, not before we got together anyway. She was towards the end of our relationship, she just happens to be the only person who refuses to classify it as dating. So he wasn't technically an "ex", but both of them had interest in dating each other in the past. It was just a situation that they were never single at the same time (not that it stopped him from interefering in our relationship TWICE.)
Author kissy Posted January 7, 2005 Author Posted January 7, 2005 Thank you all for the replies. You are right in the fact that I should never have hidden this from DH. I am very much in love with my husband and have NEVER been in love with the friend. My friendship with my friend is strictly email too. We don't call, don't im, and haven't seen eachother in over 3 years. Like I said before I have emailed him saying that we can't write anymore because of the obvious strain on my marriage. I have apologized to my husband (and will continue to do so) and I did tell him that I wrote the friend and we will not be writing anymore. As for him checking my email, it is a yahoo account that I know he dosen't have the password for since he has done this before so I changed all my passwords! He "says" yahoo messanger took him straight into my account and miraculously into the 2nd page of my sent items! I know he's full of crap! I knowhe was snooping. Yahoo messanger is never on because I don't ever use it (in fact it is now deleted off my computer) . I have no idea how he got my passwords. Given the situation though and the fact that it is my fault for saying anything to friend in the first place I won't get to mad at DH for snooping. Normally I would but sometimes you just have to take the blame and move on. However, I will be changing all my email accounts and passwords yet again!
Owl Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Kissy- I can completely understand your desire for privacy. A marriage does make it darned hard to get sometimes. BUT...I'd like you to stop and think about what message your sending your husband by changing your passwords and email accounts now. He is worried that you've got a relationship going on with someone else. It's not true...I understand that. But he's still got that fear...and by changing the passwords and accounts, you're just going to convince him that you're hiding something. And to be brutally honest, if he's got a clue about computers, there isn't much you're going to be able to do to keep him from getting whatever info he wants off of that computer. There are tons of things he could/could have done to make sure he knows what's going on on the computer...spyware he installed, hardware installed to monitor keystrokes, packet sniffers, etc... Rather than sit here and make it into a battle of control to see who can win, especially when you've got nothing to hide, why not just LET him see what's going on?? You'll rebuild his trust in you FAR more quickly...take it from someone who's wife DID have an inappropriate relationship. Rather than make this a fight....turn it into a chance to TALK about what he's worried about, find ways to reassure him that it's not happening, and figure out how to make you both comfortable in this marriage?? Trust me...if you want to turn it into a fight, all you'll do is damage your relationship with this man you say you love. Better yet...TALK about the issue, and prove to him with your actions that you're NOT hiding anything.
Author kissy Posted January 7, 2005 Author Posted January 7, 2005 What is that? Keylogger? And my husband is very good with computers. Your right. I don't have anything to hide so I guess he can read what he wants. Kinda sucks that I will have no privacy whatsoevre!
Devildog Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Originally posted by kissy What is that? Keylogger? And my husband is very good with computers. Your right. I don't have anything to hide so I guess he can read what he wants. Kinda sucks that I will have no privacy whatsoevre! Keylogger programs record your every keystroke. He can go in and see exactly what you typed, and get passwords like that.
Author kissy Posted January 7, 2005 Author Posted January 7, 2005 Oh that's real nice. Is there a way to find out if that is on your computer?>
Devildog Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Well, if hubby is good with computers he probably has some spyware detection programs, Spybot Search and Destroy maybe? Try that.
Owl Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Kissy... I guess I just don't understand. Why are you wanting to make it a battle for him to see the proof that nothing is going on? OK...so you don't have any privacy on the computer...nowadays, no one does anyway. So what's the point of fighting over this if there's nothing to hide?
Pocky Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 What is that? Keylogger? And my husband is very good with computers. Your right. I don't have anything to hide so I guess he can read what he wants. Kinda sucks that I will have no privacy whatsoevre! He'll know every site you've visted and he'll know every password and he'll know everything you write. Say bye-bye to your privacy. OK...so you don't have any privacy on the computer...nowadays, no one does anyway. So what's the point of fighting over this if there's nothing to hide? It's principle. She's an adult and she's an individual. Marriage does not negate the fact that each person has a right to their own privacy. She doesn't lose that right just because she loves this man. I think this is one of the hardest things for people to understand when they're in a marriage.
Owl Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Hmmm.....it's principle. Well, that may be. It's also a great way to damage an already fragile trust in a young relationship. It's a wonderful way to build up patterns and habits of combativness and lack of communication. Again, take it from someone who's been there. Also, I'm by no means implying that this should be a one way street. My case in point...my wife has the login and password to both of my personal email accounts, and to my IM as well. She doesn't have my work email logins...but she's more than welcome to sit with me and browse whatever she likes whenever she likes. It's about knowing that there's nothing to hide. I'd rather she was secure and happy knowing I've got nothing to hide than in worrying about a "principle" of privacy. Given that he's already worried about something, does it really seem worth the damage to your relationship just to win? Your call...I won't say or ask it again. I've made my point.
Pocky Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Hmmm.....it's principle. Well, that may be. It's also a great way to damage an already fragile trust in a young relationship. It's a wonderful way to build up patterns and habits of combativness and lack of communication. Again, take it from someone who's been there. Also, I'm by no means implying that this should be a one way street. My case in point...my wife has the login and password to both of my personal email accounts, and to my IM as well. She doesn't have my work email logins...but she's more than welcome to sit with me and browse whatever she likes whenever she likes. It's about knowing that there's nothing to hide. I'd rather she was secure and happy knowing I've got nothing to hide than in worrying about a "principle" of privacy. Given that he's already worried about something, does it really seem worth the damage to your relationship just to win? Your call...I won't say or ask it again. I've made my point. You're speaking as though both are rational adults. By the way her husband responded I don't consider him rational. By the way he's spying on everything she's doing, I don't consider him rational. Once you allow the invasion of privacy the right to privacy is completely compromised. I don't see how she's done anything wrong to warrant this behavior. I don't think someone should be obligated to accommodate irrational behavior. If, like in your case Owl, she had an affair or almost had an affair with this man, I could understand his concern. However, she stated they've been friends for years and hasn't even seen him in three years. How is it he's justified in viewing everything she writes and knowing all her passwords? My husband is my best-friend and I tell him just about everything (he knew everything about my OM from the very beginning when there was nothing and all the way through the end) but there are some things that are private. There are some thoughts that I have that I do not wish to share with him and I personally don't see that as a bad thing. I don't see being able to express myself to whom I want, when I want a bad thing if I'm not breaking any promises I've made to him.
Owl Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 I see your point Pocky. I don't completely agree with it, but what you're saying does make some sense. In this case, regardless as to if he's "rational", she would likely be best served in doing what she can to HELP him get past his issues, as opposed to doing something that just likely to inflame his worries. If he's truly not "rational", then they should seek counseling or she should bail. I can understand that there are things that you wouldn't want to share with your husband...my wife has those too. And I've got to say that I encourage her to share those things with other people...people that we BOTH can trust. Like her sister. Or some of her female friends. Sharing things like that with a male friend is a risk...I think you and I have discussed this before. I'm curious...you said that your husband knew about the OM from the beginning as friends all the way to the end. Did he know that you were having an affair while it was going on? Or did you hide that part from him until he figured it out or you just had to let him know? Your case sounds like mine...I knew about the OM, knew that they were friends. I began to worry that it was becoming more than friends, but she placated me, and I wanted to give her some space and trust her since we were already dealing with other things. That just let her go ahead with the affair. I too knew all about the OM and her friendship with him...but she hid from me the growing feelings, the increased contact, the phone calls, the dreams of being together, etc... Was your case similar? Kissy- Again, don't take that I'm trying to attack here. I just don't understand WHY you're doing what you're doing...and trying to offer some insight based off of 17 years of marriage and a recent brush with my wife's affair.
Author kissy Posted January 7, 2005 Author Posted January 7, 2005 Well my entire relationship story would be a long one. However, I was raised that a woman's purse and her mail are private. I don';t mind him reading my mail or going through my purse as long as he asks first. It's the principle of the matter. Your right about chaning my emails and all. So I won't be doing that. My husband has questioned me cheating since we've been together even though I have given him no reason to think that I would. I am stay at home mom. I don't go anywhere except to do grocery shopping or to take my oldest to and from school. I may go out with the girls once a year. Usually it's only to eat. Yet dh questions me on cheating! While he goes to work (at a very big company) that is a bit of a commute away then comes home and either goes fishing with his buddies or does some work on the side working on peoples homes. I really don't see him all to much. On the weekends when he is home in the morning I still get up at 6:30 with the kids while he sleeps till 1 or 2! Yes I feel a bit negleted and a bit like a live in maid. When I try to talk to husband about this he just says that it's not true and he's always home (Yeah, always home sleeping!). So anyway, although I have felt negleted and all it has never been to where I would consider chaeting on him or anything. Sorry if this dosen't make sense, just thought I might explain a bit of how I feel. Also, another question, I did get this email from my friend, should I forward it to DH so he can see it? "I understand how he could be jealous. On the other hand, I know that you were only being playful, that you are happily married and love Brad very much, as you've told me this plenty of times. Sorry, I'm sure he loves you as much as you love him." Thanks again!
Pocky Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 I see your point Pocky. I don't completely agree with it, but what you're saying does make some sense. I see your point as well and for some circumstances (like yours) I think it is a good decision. In this case, regardless as to if he's "rational", she would likely be best served in doing what she can to HELP him get past his issues, as opposed to doing something that just likely to inflame his worries. If he's truly not "rational", then they should seek counseling or she should bail. Well then maybe just show him the email so his fears are assuaged but don't give password. And seriously discuss the issue of logging into a private account when he shouldn't have had the password, yet! I'm curious...you said that your husband knew about the OM from the beginning as friends all the way to the end. Did he know that you were having an affair while it was going on? Or did you hide that part from him until he figured it out or you just had to let him know? At first when I met the OM we were just friends. We met for lunch one day - as friends only - and he suddenly said he was in love with me. I advised him that I was married and in love with my husband. My husband knew I met him. As time progressed, the OM and I began to get closer and I realized that I was getting 20% of my marriage from him and 80% from my husband. I told my husband about my realization and told him that the OM was in love with me but that I advised him I loved my husband and nothing would come of it. I advised my husband that we needed to work on our issues because if we didn't the day would come where I needed that 20% and I would find it from someone else. My husband at the time stated he had thought something was up because of all the time I was spending online talking to him. My husband, unfortunately, continued his deception and didn't work with me on our issues. He would give half effort to things we were trying to overcome, but never seriously thought I'd leave and took me for granted. Time passed and things progressed and declined and I reached the point where I was fed up with my husbands actions and told him I wanted to divorce. He begged me to just separate and I advised him that I would be dating the OM as well. I stayed living in the house with my husband, but slept in separate rooms. We tried to work on our problems and I told him in order for me to take him seriously he had to see a therapist. During this time we discussed everything. I explained why I was attracted to my OM, what I received from the relationship, what I did sexually. I talked to my husband like a best-friend that was trying to help me sort out a relationship. I told him just about everything.
Owl Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Kissy- It does sound like your husband has had some serious insecurity issues for quite a while. I would seriously recommend you talk to him about counseling. If he's always questioned you and acted like you were cheating on him with no reason at all to suspect something, then you've got some serious issues in your marriage that you need to fix soon, or they'll be a permanant problem! I'd suggest that you copy your husband on your RESPONSE to his email. And make sure that your response is appropriate. "I appreciate your understanding, and I appreciate that you realize nothing would have ever gone on between us. But it is important to me that my husband knows that and can trust that as well. So thank you for being there, and take care my friend." Something along those lines would probably help...but if your husband is as insecure as you've described, you never know. I was raised in a family where there was little trust between my step father and my mom. So, when I started this marriage, I MADE those rules you just described. And I do still ask before I go get anything out of my wife's purse...usually I just hand her the purse and let her get whatever it was herself. The same thing applied for the longest time when it came to computers and emails. I didn't spy on her, nor did I give her access to my emails. Unfortunately, that's part of what contributed to her affair. It created an environment where she was totally comfortable in going outside the bounds of our marriage, thoroughly content that she'd never get caught. And honestly, I caught her by doing exactly what your husband did. I began to worry about the fact that she was IMing this guy for hours at a time during the day when I was at work. He was always a subject of conversation for her. She was withdrawing more and more emotionally from me as well...but it wasn't until I caught her trying to close a chat window so I couldn't see what was in it that I KNEW there was a problem. She got it closed where I didn't see what was said...but I too am reasonably computer literate, and it took me about 10 minutes of work to log into her IM acct and setup logging on it. It was four days later (May 11, last year) that I read the chat log. The first few lines of the chat session were totally devastating...telling each other how much they loved each other, how they missed talking to each other when I was home, what it would be like if they met in person...it went on and on. Basically, my whole point is this. It makes sense to "affair proof" your marriage now. Before anything happens. You sound like you're not real happy with your husband, and with his trust issues and behavior. How long will it be before you start wondering if maybe you'd have been better off with your friend (or someone else)? So start working on fixing the problems NOW. That means counseling to get over his mistrust issues...that means making your marriage stronger by working together...not fighting over who wins all the time. It also does mean that you need to make it so that you and your husband don't feel like you could "get away" with cheating. Make it so that you know you'd be caught if you tried anything...and make it so that he would be too. Make it so that you know it's better to be honest than to hide things from each other. Again, just my opinion. Things that I wish that we had done years ago that we're doing now.
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