leafguy Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Alright guys and gals...I could use some advice. I have been signed up for online dating for about a month now, just had my first date. Although it did go well, suffice to say there likely won't be a second date. With that being said, I am curious as I am curious if anyone with experience can give a bit more guidance as to how to get a response. I consider myself to be a decent looking guy, certainly not the most attractive, but not ugly lol. I have a very good profile, and take the time to read everyone's profile before I message. Herein lies the problem...I have sent out quite a few messages and very seldom get a reply thus far. I won't be one of those people who says I don't care about looks because I do, and if I don't find the person at least somewhat physically attractive, I won't message. That being said, for the women...what types of messages usually get a reply from you that get lots of messages? I try my best to show that I have read their profile and ask a couple questions...typical message is about 2 paragraphs. For the guys, what approaches have worked for you? Any feedback is much obliged as I am just trying to increase the number of first dates I go on to get some experience enjoying the game again and obviously with more first dates, better chance of connecting with someone.
FitChick Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 This is an example of why I wait until after Valentines' Day to subscribe to dating websites. Newbies have inflated ideas of online dating and what they can get. You want someone good looking but what do YOU look like? The less attractive you are, the more successful you need to be in your career. It goes without saying, but I'll say it, have clear current head shot and full body. No hat, sunglasses or shapeless clothes. Face the light source so you won't be in shadlow. You want to see their body shape and we want to see yours. If you are on a free site, that might be your problem.
Author leafguy Posted January 1, 2014 Author Posted January 1, 2014 I have clear head and body shots. I did the research before creating my profile. I'm in shape, clean cut and I know I am not a 10/10, but I know myself that I am physically attractive. I can tell that based on my history of girls I have been with. I have alot to offer both physically and mentally. The issue is I don't frequent the bar scene anymore so I don't have a great medium for actually looking to meet people save for the gym and the dog park, which has been unsuccessful thus far. I don't have an inflated idea, I just know what type of guy I am and that any woman would be lucky to have me. My problem is simply not knowing exactly what a girl is going to respond too. I know everyone is different, but shorter vs longer email, I didn't create the post to be ridiculed...I did it asking for advice. Perhaps the free site maybe the issue...I am of POF, but I don't currently have the money to spend on match or eharmony.
Onethirtyeight Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 (edited) This has been my experience: I made a decent profile for myself but was kind of light on the text and pretty much just listed my interests and the things I felt would make or break a relationship. Also had a witty joke at the end. I'm not a bad looking guy and women seem to like me in real life for both my looks and personality. I could not get any serious replies from the women I would normally date. I rarely got any from women I was on the fence about as well. The majority of my interactions with women on OLD were the desperate and unattractive women who approached me and those messages were disturbingly sexual. I did get a lot of page views from the women I messaged, so I know I sent messages that stood out and got read. They just weren't interested in me even though they probably would have been if I met them at a bar. Then I tired to figure out what the problem was and I came on here. People pretty much said that's just the way it is and everyone tries to play out of their league, especially if they're young. Women said it was great and I'll tell you why. I then made 5 profiles: 1. This profile was the stereotype of what women want. I consulted some female friends on what to do to make him as desirable as possible. I ended up with male model for the profile picture, he was an investor, he was 6'2" and he had some universally compatible interests. If you're a woman looking for someone to date I'd think you'd at least give this guy a shot. The majority of desirable women ignored him even after looking at his profile, he did pretty well with average chicks and pretty much every unattractive and desperate chick approached him. Meaning mr. perfect was even having trouble getting replies from women in his league. 2. Hot chick. I found a picture on the CL personals section from a scam ad and used that picture. She didn't look skanky and was probably a 9/10 in my book. Her profile was pretty standard for what I saw on that site and she had some normal female interests. She got tons of lame "hey there" replies and pretty much every man on the site sent her a message. That said it really wasn't that hard to weed people out even when you have that many messages. The biggest thing I realized here is as long as you actually wrote something she probably saw it if she's serious about finding someone. 3. Average chick. Totally plain Jane looking with about the same interests as the hot chick. I feel she's actually in a good position on OLD. She got several well thought out messages a day mixed in with some lame ones. She definitely has time to look at these. She got messages from a wide range of guys but there are fewer of them. 4. Ugly chick. Ugly chick had normal looking guys trying to hook up with her and desperate looking guys sending her half assed messages. She got limited attention, maybe about as much as I did. She's actually not in a bad position either and can be pickier than real life IMO. 5. No picture chick. This one was kind of a wild card and I made her have the kind of personality and interests I consider ideal. She only got real messages and none of the guys were particularly good looking IMO. They ranged from normal to rather bad looking. Moral of that story is that most men seem to use OLD the same way I did which was to browse and select the women the found attractive and send them messages. I spent a lot of time on this and I hope you read all of it. Edited January 1, 2014 by Onethirtyeight
MrCastle Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 I have clear head and body shots. I did the research before creating my profile. I'm in shape, clean cut and I know I am not a 10/10, but I know myself that I am physically attractive. I can tell that based on my history of girls I have been with. I have alot to offer both physically and mentally. The issue is I don't frequent the bar scene anymore so I don't have a great medium for actually looking to meet people save for the gym and the dog park, which has been unsuccessful thus far. I don't have an inflated idea, I just know what type of guy I am and that any woman would be lucky to have me. My problem is simply not knowing exactly what a girl is going to respond too. I know everyone is different, but shorter vs longer email, I didn't create the post to be ridiculed...I did it asking for advice. Perhaps the free site maybe the issue...I am of POF, but I don't currently have the money to spend on match or eharmony. Herein lies the problem. Get this out of your head. I know it's logical -- "I get x type of girls in real life, so I should get the same kind online." Hell, I used to think it myself. But it doesn't work like that. You will do better in real life because you're able to show your personality, other intangibles, and form a real life chemistry. Online is a baseball card with your stats that women will either accept or reject. Also add in that most women get buried with messages, it's an uphill battle. Your story is not a unique one. Plenty of good looking guys with well written profiles get overlooked online. The game is rigged in favor of women. It's a numbers game. If you're messaging 15 women a week, message 30. If you're messaging 30, message 60. And so on and so forth. The one benefit that men have in OLD is that there are tons of women to choose from. One is bound to hit if you message enough of them. 4
Author leafguy Posted January 1, 2014 Author Posted January 1, 2014 Thx 138, I don't have the time to make 5 profiles, but I appreciate your reply. I am having the same problem as I feel that girls I would normally hit it off with in RL aren't even bothering. I don't tend to believe in "leagues" either. I am sure the more attractive girls attract a boat load of attention and will likely expect a hot guy to email them and perhaps that is what they go for rather than reading my message where I actually take the time to read their profile and message with something intelligent. Guess I may just be trying to find a needle in a haystack with regards to that. As far as your list of profiles, I guess that is to be expected that the hotter one would receive more messages than she can count, where as your average one received less, but more intelligent. I am fairly certain that with a bit of effort I will find one in the long run, but it has been a bit discouraging thus far. I suppose the holidays will have something to do with it as well, being a sort of a lull in activity.
Author leafguy Posted January 1, 2014 Author Posted January 1, 2014 Mr Castle, Thx. I guess I could always message more. I just don't like the shotgun approach so to speak, but I guess if I take the time to read and put a bit more effort in while maintaining my current efforts, you are right..that one is bound to message back in the long run. And I do admit I have had my fair share of attention, but alot of it seems to be coming from moms, cougars and ones with baggage. And by baggage I mean kids, or ones with profiles stating they "must" see their new bf 3 - 4 times a week, just crap like that. But yeah, guess I will just keep trucking at it.
Onethirtyeight Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Thx 138, I don't have the time to make 5 profiles, but I appreciate your reply. I am having the same problem as I feel that girls I would normally hit it off with in RL aren't even bothering. I don't tend to believe in "leagues" either. I am sure the more attractive girls attract a boat load of attention and will likely expect a hot guy to email them and perhaps that is what they go for rather than reading my message where I actually take the time to read their profile and message with something intelligent. Guess I may just be trying to find a needle in a haystack with regards to that. As far as your list of profiles, I guess that is to be expected that the hotter one would receive more messages than she can count, where as your average one received less, but more intelligent. I am fairly certain that with a bit of effort I will find one in the long run, but it has been a bit discouraging thus far. I suppose the holidays will have something to do with it as well, being a sort of a lull in activity. I made those so other people don't have to. I was chilling in the airport and it was good waste of time. I don't really believe in leagues in the sense that someone will only date someone as attractive as they are either. That's high school garbage. I do think we all adjust to what we can get at some point, and at some point I'd think its natural for a person to say they can do better. If you want to keep looking more power to you. Just remember its an uphill battle on OLD. 1
ponchsox Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Tell them you have a cleft pallet and live in your mom's basement. It will weed out the superficial chicks. 1
MrCastle Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Mr Castle, Thx. I guess I could always message more. I just don't like the shotgun approach so to speak, but I guess if I take the time to read and put a bit more effort in while maintaining my current efforts, you are right..that one is bound to message back in the long run. And I do admit I have had my fair share of attention, but alot of it seems to be coming from moms, cougars and ones with baggage. And by baggage I mean kids, or ones with profiles stating they "must" see their new bf 3 - 4 times a week, just crap like that. But yeah, guess I will just keep trucking at it. I don't like the shotgun approach either. But there's no doubt it works. When I was OLDing, I messaged maybe 2 girls a week. Never got me anywhere. There is typically a trade off when it comes to many things in life. Off topic but last night I was watching a news bit on frozen food, and how a lot of them don't deliver when it comes to taste. The cheese is usually scabby, the meat usually lacks flavor, etc. I had to laugh because, what do people expect? The trade off with frozen food is -- you come home from a long day's work and cook something that only takes 3 minutes to make, but will lack flavor -- or your tired ass can actually spend an hour or so preparing a real dish from scratch. You decide what's more important, convenience or flavor. So, with OLD -- the trade off is quality vs quantity. You can sit around, doing the sniper rifle approach like I did, only messaging the very exclusive few that you're really attracted to, and get nowhere, or you can mass message any halfway decent girl that you can kind of, sort of see yourself dating in order to have a bigger pool to choose from.
Author leafguy Posted January 1, 2014 Author Posted January 1, 2014 Lol, I like the analogy. I can't argue it. I get that if I message more, I will have a better chance at finding a potential match and that a profile is just the surface, I just don't feel all that satisfied emailing a ton of women, despite the fact it is simply breaking the ice. I will for sure have to try it as its something out of my comfort zone, but I would have to agree that is the most likely scenario to work...and there is nothing wrong with messaging a bunch, its just saying hi...even though I have those weird visions of one of those guys that is walking into a party saying hi to every girl there.
happywithlife Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 How old are you? You say that you don't want to date a mom. If you're in your 30s, many of the women in their 30s probably have kids or some other attribute that you define as baggage. This will limit your numbers on OLD. Along the same lines, if you are in your 30s and are only looking at younger women (say in their 20s) so that you avoid moms, you are limiting your numbers b/c they may not want an older man just like you don't want a cougar. I am not saying this applies to you, but it is food for thought if it does.
Thegreatestthing Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Stop aiming for girls out of your league ,be honest With yourself and you'll get replies. I always reply because I have the time since I only get one message every hour sometimes more,it's likely the girls you are messaging are getting a message every min. so are less likely to care. Never say hi how are you,or anything brief,hate those messages,ask her what her favourite quote is I really liked that message. Alright guys and gals...I could use some advice. I have been signed up for online dating for about a month now, just had my first date. Although it did go well, suffice to say there likely won't be a second date. With that being said, I am curious as I am curious if anyone with experience can give a bit more guidance as to how to get a response. I consider myself to be a decent looking guy, certainly not the most attractive, but not ugly lol. I have a very good profile, and take the time to read everyone's profile before I message. Herein lies the problem...I have sent out quite a few messages and very seldom get a reply thus far. I won't be one of those people who says I don't care about looks because I do, and if I don't find the person at least somewhat physically attractive, I won't message. That being said, for the women...what types of messages usually get a reply from you that get lots of messages? I try my best to show that I have read their profile and ask a couple questions...typical message is about 2 paragraphs. For the guys, what approaches have worked for you? Any feedback is much obliged as I am just trying to increase the number of first dates I go on to get some experience enjoying the game again and obviously with more first dates, better chance of connecting with someone.
Author leafguy Posted January 1, 2014 Author Posted January 1, 2014 Happy with Life, I am 27 and my range is about 23 - 30 or so. I'm not at a spot in my life where I want to have to deal with a kid. I am currently looking for a house and am going along with that, but once I have everything on that front taken care of, a kid may not be so bad. Just right now, to me it is baggage. Is it limiting my options...perhaps it is, but I won't be unfair to someone because it is just something I don't want to have to deal with at the current moment. Thegreatest thing, again...I don't believe in leagues. I find that concept as crap. Im not saying I am picking the girl I find most attractive and trying for her. What I am saying is that I am messaging decent looking girls because I believe I am also attractive as well. Where I believe my problem is is how I am messaging to set myself apart from the pack so to speak. I like your quote message. I never thought of something like that. It's short and different...kind of the thing I am looking for.
fortyninethousand322 Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 I have had more luck on dating sites than in real life. But, not by much. I've met three women off of Okcupid in the course of roughly 4 years. Never on POF though. Two of the women were pretty good looking. The other one looked nothing like her photos (in a bad way) and wore way too much perfume (and it smelled horrible) and had a terrible attitude. The two women I liked weren't interested though in taking things further (well one agreed to a second date, but bailed before the third date). What works? I don't know. I write genuine messages and talk about stuff we have in common and try to pick up on cues that they'd want to meet up. Most of the time though those messages are never replied to so it's probably not worth it to bother with OLD.
Eggplant Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 leafguy, Don't take it personally when a particular online person doesn't respond. There are a myriad of reasons why she isn't responding. She may be already talking to somebody or dating somebody. She may just not consider you her personal type, even though you're objectively quite attractive. She may just think your interests aren't a match. You have no idea what goes on in her head.
Eggplant Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 I recommend a compromise between volume and attention. Message many women, while at the same time put something personal in each brief message. No need to write a book before she even responds. At the same time, don't write stupid lines that can be copied and pasted. (Unless for some reason many women are different from me and respond to spam).
fortyninethousand322 Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 I recommend a compromise between volume and attention. Message many women, while at the same time put something personal in each brief message. No need to write a book before she even responds. At the same time, don't write stupid lines that can be copied and pasted. (Unless for some reason many women are different from me and respond to spam). I'd rather just continue to write a few genuine lines to women who sound and look interesting, and when they don't respond just assume I'm not good enough. It does wonders for the soul...
Onethirtyeight Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Happy with Life, I am 27 and my range is about 23 - 30 or so. I'm not at a spot in my life where I want to have to deal with a kid. I am currently looking for a house and am going along with that, but once I have everything on that front taken care of, a kid may not be so bad. Just right now, to me it is baggage. Is it limiting my options...perhaps it is, but I won't be unfair to someone because it is just something I don't want to have to deal with at the current moment. Thegreatest thing, again...I don't believe in leagues. I find that concept as crap. Im not saying I am picking the girl I find most attractive and trying for her. What I am saying is that I am messaging decent looking girls because I believe I am also attractive as well. Where I believe my problem is is how I am messaging to set myself apart from the pack so to speak. I like your quote message. I never thought of something like that. It's short and different...kind of the thing I am looking for. I still disagree, there are leagues. Not saying this is your problem but a really hot chick isn't going to date someone she's not physically attracted to unless she's absolutely in love with him as a person. At the same time an overweight woman with 2 kids is kind of going to have to take what she gets in the looks department unless she gets extremely lucky. That's just the result of everyone involved trying to do the best they can. Just out of curiosity how many women are you messaging? I found I was having a response rate around 5% when going for women I felt were appropriate. I was sending out maybe 5 messages a day and getting one back every few.
Thegreatestthing Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 I agree about not taking it personally at all,a very very good looking guy messaged me yesterday I didn't reply because I didn't really like his look tho other girls would,I like round faces etc and don't really have any of his interests he has. Anyway he kept writing even though I didn't reply ,so eventually I Did reply but still got a "no connection" vibe so stopped replying again and he kept writing. I admit there are things you can say that can change her mind or pique interest but if she didn't have it from the get go it's hard to maintain.
Onethirtyeight Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 I agree about not taking it personally at all,a very very good looking guy messaged me yesterday I didn't reply because I didn't really like his look tho other girls would,I like round faces etc and don't really have any of his interests he has. Anyway he kept writing even though I didn't reply ,so eventually I Did reply but still got a "no connection" vibe so stopped replying again and he kept writing. I admit there are things you can say that can change her mind or pique interest but if she didn't have it from the get go it's hard to maintain. Do you normally get multiple messages from the same guy and do you find it weird? When I was doing OLD I would only ever send 2 and only send the second if they didn't see my profile. I wasn't about to come off as needy.
Thegreatestthing Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 No I don't,he was the second. I don't mind it and I don't find it needy. Do you normally get multiple messages from the same guy and do you find it weird? When I was doing OLD I would only ever send 2 and only send the second if they didn't see my profile. I wasn't about to come off as needy.
Author leafguy Posted January 1, 2014 Author Posted January 1, 2014 138, I don't consider a fat overweight person with 2 kids to be in a league, the same way I don't consider a Victoria Secret model to be in one. What it boils down to is everyone needs to be physically attracted to someone online in order to message them or reply for the most part. That much I have accepted. Do I think a hotter guy than me is going to get more attention...absolutely. Is he necessarily a better match for someone, doubtful. Am I going to look at a bigger girl with 2 kids...absolutely not. Does that mean she is not in my league...no. I just means if I don't find her attractive, I won't message back no matter what. I understand that is primarily the main reason why I am not getting responses....however, the whole point of me writing this topic is to separate myself from the other I would say above average guys to make my messages stand out for the better. And I made the mistake of putting my eggs in one basket the first few weeks when I really hit it off with the girl I was going on a date with. We were talking on the phone almost nightly for 2 hours, texting, emailing...the whole 9 yards. As it progressed I started liking her before having met her and stopped for a few weeks...the first week I messaged about 15 to 20 and had 3 or 4 replies. The following week about 10 with 0. Two were worthwhile, while the others I could rule out based on the fact I sent them an email asking a few questions about them, and they came back with nothing relevant to what I said to them. I started messaging again Sunday night and have had about 10 so far this week with nothing as well. Maybe I try the 30 or more a week route. I suppose no harm in doing a personalized short message for each one. I just have to get out of the uncomfortable feeling I have about that aspect.
Onethirtyeight Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Think of it this way. What you bring to the table is going to define the size of your dating pool. The more desirable you are the pickier you can be. Then I'd say most people want the best person they attract. So if you don't have a lot going for you and you're attracted to someone that does you're going to have to be better than a lot of other people.
Author leafguy Posted January 1, 2014 Author Posted January 1, 2014 I guess you do have a point. Im still sort of thinking not fully online mode. I forget they don't see everything that can be brought to the table without physically meeting someone.
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