MissBee Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 Of course generalizations can be used and do serve a purpose. However, from reading some of the posts, it appears that many on here make generalizations based on one or two life experiences. To me, these are not valid. That's all I was trying to say. If you have a vast knowledge that goes beyond that and your evaluations are usually proven to be accurate, then my post wasn't really directed at you. No offense intended. I'm not personally offended. I've just seen your argument a lot from many people and wanted to address the whole generalizations point. I didn't actually see in this thread where anyone was using one or two experiences they had to generalize or make "sweeping generalizations" as you've said. I have seen it in other threads but I haven't seen it in this one. Most people didn't seem to talk about their own experience, but broader human behaviors or cultural attitudes.
ZMM Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 I didn't actually see in this thread where anyone was using one or two experiences they had to generalize or make "sweeping generalizations" as you've said. I have seen it in other threads but I haven't seen it in this one. Exactly, and you missed my followup post where I said - it didn't really apply to this thread. I had just been reading multiple threads and forgot where I was at. My mistake.
Iguanna Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 If you don't believe in monogamy, what is the reason to get married in the first place? 1
Author Cocochai Posted December 30, 2013 Author Posted December 30, 2013 Exactly, and you missed my followup post where I said - it didn't really apply to this thread. I had just been reading multiple threads and forgot where I was at. My mistake. I get what your saying ZMM.. Just have to choose our words carefully when it comes to one specific incident when we are seeking questions about our own personal experience in A's. 1
inappfriendly Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 Thanks for posting this, Lil Miss Whether it applies to each or any of our respective situations or not, it is nice to hear such a personal and real perspective. If I thought this was the case with my own XMOM post A, I think I my heart would somehow feel at ease. Here is something I found on a website a few years back. This was a man that posted one time and that was it. What he wrote rang true in many ways - but it might help some understand how some men who have been in affairs feel: Written in Dec 2010 on Experience Project I want you to know that I recently went through the same situation. I am working things out in my marriage. I do love my wife, but I feel like I am making do with second best. When I got married, I do not think I ever felt the way I do for my former mistress. I am heart broken and miss her every moment. If it wasnt for my financial situation and my children, I would have easily left my wife of 15 years for the other woman. I did some research on love and I found out that love releases chemicals into the brain that stimulates the same areas as cocain. Love can create a chemical addiction in the brain which is difficult to overcome. I still have triggers that send me back into missing her. The smell of her lotion, driving past key areas where we would go for walks, movies we had seen together, or even specific songs. They all remind me of the greatest summer of my life, and I will never forget her. Nor do I want to. The fact is that love does not conquer all, and so if I did leave my wife for my mistress, our relationship would quickly be overwhelmed with the realities of our baggage. Part of me still thinks we will someday end up together, but now is not the time, and I am married. I will not cheat on my wife any more. If I want to be with someone else, I will divorce her first. The affair was more tragic for my wife because I did fall in love with another woman. Had it been sex alone, she would have been able to cope more easily, but because my wife knows that I told this other woman that I loved her, It made my wife's heartache all the more. We are still not sure if we can work things out, but 15 years of marriage is not easily thrown away] I want to state that I am certain many men who choose recovery do not feel this way, but this is an example of one that did.
MissBee Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 (edited) If you don't believe in monogamy, what is the reason to get married in the first place? It seems nonsensical. Some people though, like serial cheaters for example, are not very self-aware and are also very hypocritical. They believe in monogamy for the women they are with, yes women, their wife and OW or multiple OW should be faithful to THEM but on their part, they don't need to be monogamous. These kinds of people are generally very insecure, even if they don't show it in the traditional way you imagine, and NEED the security of having a primary partner to come home to, to love and care for them; yet, they are totally emotionally immature and unable to actual;y honor a monogamous commitment or set the other person free to choose for themselves. They also will most likely never be the ones to initiate a divorce or breaking up and will generally not do so unless they have a soft-landing place. My dad and a friend of mine are exactly this way, with my friend of course being the one I talk to, actually admitting this more or less. So that is one reason why someone will do that. But it's not that they don't believe in monogamy usually, it's usually a self-centered, do as I say not as I do thing, where they very much want monogamy but it is directed towards how the woman/women in their lives deal with them while they are exempt from such strictures. The test is: if they don't believe in monogamy, fine. Ask them about what if their wife agrees too and decides to open the R for herself and him, would they be happy and see their response. Emotionally mature people who communicate can not believe in monogamy, but they will choose to not marry or marry someone who believes as they do and thus they can engage in an open and honest open/poly relationship. People who claim not to believe in it but actually don't believe in it as a reason to justify why they should do what they want usually only apply it to themselves and are very deceitful about how they deal with this "belief." Edited December 30, 2013 by MissBee 5
ZMM Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 it's usually a self-centered, do as I say not as I do thing, where they very much want monogamy but it is directed towards how the woman/women in their lives deal with them while they are exempt from such strictures. The test is: if they don't believe in monogamy, fine. Ask them about what if their wife agrees too and decides to open the R for herself and him, would they be happy and see their response. I know someone like this. He is his second marriage. The first marriage, he never cheated and it lasted a good 20 years. His W however, cheated all the time. When he found out he divorced her. Now, he is remarried and has no qualms about cheating. However, he would not put up with his W cheating, he would divorce her right away. But, in his case, I just think after his first M, he has a negative outlook of women in general and doesn't real care anymore.
ladydesigner Posted December 31, 2013 Posted December 31, 2013 Truly loves his BS but just doesn't believe in Monogamy?? A friend of mines was debating this... It's not always of course about an unhappy home or not being emotionally connected to the BS. Maybe they simple just don't believe. And if this is the case, then the OW never stood a chance even if they develop an emotional bond together. Any thoughts? I am really happy you posted this because my WH and I recently opened our M up and it has been working really well for us. I don't talk about it too much here. Our M is really good right now and he seems to be more monogamous than ever where now I am liking the aspect of polyamory. We both are. Interesting topic!
dreamingoftigers Posted December 31, 2013 Posted December 31, 2013 This!!! All day everyday spoke the truth!!! Then when it comes to owning up to how he truly feels... He holds on to the "I don't want to lose my family" when it all boils down to a decision. Coward and will forever live a lie to himself and his BS. I also blame society for perhaps forcing marriage upon those who truly don't believe in Monogamy. But it helps to keep family's intact if the MM is willing to do everything to shield that part of him from his BS. You realize that most of the western world doesn't have forced or arranged marriages, right? If someone doesn't want to be monogamous there's been pretty good public awareness about swinger etc since the 60s. Porn and fling sites are rampant in today's society. If someone doesn't believe in monogamy as a principle, then by getting married they (again) wouldn't be standing by their principles. Lots if people nowadays bash marriage. Forced? Coerced? What? Where do you live? 3
MissBee Posted December 31, 2013 Posted December 31, 2013 You realize that most of the western world doesn't have forced or arranged marriages, right? If someone doesn't want to be monogamous there's been pretty good public awareness about swinger etc since the 60s. Porn and fling sites are rampant in today's society. If someone doesn't believe in monogamy as a principle, then by getting married they (again) wouldn't be standing by their principles. Lots if people nowadays bash marriage. Forced? Coerced? What? Where do you live? !!!!! I am always so confused by this. If you live in America esp, people can get married in Vegas while drunk and get it annulled the next day. Some people have married someone for 2 months and then got divorced or some people marry someone new every couple years it seems and it is all legal and even if people talk, they get over it and life goes on. I also found out a lot about alternative relationship styles, swingers, sister wives etc in the last 4 years, and esp now, there is more public awareness of those alternative lifestyles because of documentaries, talk shows etc. Many people, even people on this forum, are in open marriages or do swinging and that is also not illegal nor something they necessarily broadcast to others. So sorry...it is utter baloney in my eyes when people speak about society forcing marriage on people when many people do not choose to get married and just cohabit or in the privacy of their relationship choose to conduct it how they want. Marriage is not the problem...people being dishonest is. As people who do not get married but just have bf/gfs they cohabit with also cheat (my own A was a LTR scenario and not a marriage). If marriage was the problem then you would see less cheating among couples who are unwed --- I don't have figures but from looking around, it doesn't seem to be the case. In the culture I'm from originally, most people are common law than legally wed, and cheating and men having OW is very common place. So clearly it is not any kind of societal force via marriage that is making people behave in this way. More and more people seem to accept that not everyone wants marriage and 2.5 kids and the picket fence. More people probably still do than those who don't, but the America that I'm aware of and live in, it seems that while many people are traditional, people are also more of the mind that other people can do what they want, even if it isn't for them. If you've been married for years and years then maybe I could see how this argument is valid but if you've been married within the last 20 years or so, it's not as convincing. Also what is the alternative? As monogamy can exist without marriage and as I said some people are in monogamous unmarried LTRs and are sitll cheating...so what's the problem here? Is monogamy to blame? Or is it that one doesn't need to be monogamous but don't pretend you are or lie about it and force someone else to live your lie. As I said, many of these cheaters believe in monogamy for their partner just not for themselves. So it is clearly not an actual true disbelief in monogamy, it's a case of wanting to do what you want to do, but you are dishonest about it because you're afraid the other person will want to do it too, which you don't want because you actually don't want to share them OR you don't want them to have the choice to choose not to be in such a relationship so you're gonna trick them into thinking they and you are on the same page. Society isn't to blame...your specific agreement with your specific partner is what matters and society or not, these people aren't communicating with the person they decided to be with and many aren't communicating for the aforementioned selfish reasons. 1
MuddyFootprints Posted December 31, 2013 Posted December 31, 2013 I auditioned for a polyamorous mm. It took some work to determine that this role is not in my repertoire.
Aspasia33 Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 I have a friend who says this..says he loves his girlfriend but doesn't believe in monogamy, I asked him if he has told his girlfriend that? He hasn't. Funnily enough, he and I are just friends, and I sent him a txt one night wanting to talk to him, his girlfriend freaked out, and he pretty much threw me under the bus? Which i found sort of funny coming from a man I'm not having an affair with. Truly loves his BS but just doesn't believe in Monogamy?? A friend of mines was debating this... It's not always of course about an unhappy home or not being emotionally connected to the BS. Maybe they simple just don't believe. And if this is the case, then the OW never stood a chance even if they develop an emotional bond together. Any thoughts?
Recommended Posts