Is it possible that the MM...

[Cocochai]

Truly loves his BS but just doesn't believe in Monogamy??

 

A friend of mines was debating this... It's not always of course about an unhappy home or not being emotionally connected to the BS. Maybe they simple just don't believe.

 

And if this is the case, then the OW never stood a chance even if they develop an emotional bond together. Any thoughts?

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

I think it's very possible. Some guys, though they love their wives and girlfriends, still have an addiction to sex and new women, and as long as they can get away with it, will continue to do so.

[Mascara]

Many men who cheat don't believe in monogamy for themselves. Oddly though, the idea of an open marriage doesn't mean he's ok with the idea of his wife having an affair.

 

You know, despite the fact that it's one of the lines in the MM handbook - "I think she's having an affair too / I wouldn't care if she had an affair / it would be a relief if she found someone and was the one to leave"

[Cocochai]

Hmmm so where does this leave the OW??

 

I actually have a friend who feels this way but, his has to do more with his own insecurities. If he's not getting attention from the BS at home, he finds it else where. He will actually have the OW in a multiple of 4 in rotation incase one decides to opt out.

 

I doubt my XMM was as bad as my friend but... If the MM doesn't believe in Monogamy then how does that actually affect the BS when she's of course the opposite. I would hate to be M to someone who never believes or at least tries to be faithful the first 5 years?? Do they just accept as long as it's not in their face?

 

My XBF was like thee and I couldn't handle it at all... No matter how much he tried to make it look like he put me first.

[Goodbye]

I think this was the case with my exMM. I believe he loved us both and in his ideal world he'd keep us both. I think he suffered from a bottomless need for love and affection and if it were not "frowned upon" to be in polyamorous relationships, he'd have them openly.

[SunsetRed]

Right on target! My xMM was like that. And no, I never stood a chance w him.

[Popsicle]

Only serial cheaters feel this way and I do not believe most are serial cheaters. Maybe like 10% are.

[Cocochai]

The problem isnt that the MM doesnt believe in monogomy per se. Its that he is hiding this belief from his BS, after making a vow and stating he will in fact be monogomous. Thats why every MM hides the OW -- because he knows the wife wouldnt go for an open marriage AND/OR he knows he couldnt handle the wife having someone on the side. Completely selfish, cowardly and deceiptful.

 

Nothing wrong with not being monogomous, just dont vow and pretend to be, then LIE about it day after day.

 

This!!! All day everyday spoke the truth!!!

 

Then when it comes to owning up to how he truly feels... He holds on to the "I don't want to lose my family" when it all boils down to a decision. Coward and will forever live a lie to himself and his BS.

 

I also blame society for perhaps forcing marriage upon those who truly don't believe in Monogamy. But it helps to keep family's intact if the MM is willing to do everything to shield that part of him from his BS.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Society doesnt force marriage upon anyone. Nowadays, no one blinks an eye when unmarried couples co-habitate, have children, etc. Workplaces, employers, landlords etc really dont care anymore. Being unmarried is not seen as something odd nowadays, like it was in the 50s for instance.

 

Every man who married chose to do so. Maybe he had pressure from his family, his significant other, etc but at the end of the day he chose it.

 

All this boils down to is the MM wants his marriage and homelife and spouse, but he also wants to have fun on the side. Selfish selfish selfish.

 

 

But there are still circles where they feel "forced" into living a certain lifestyle - whether it be because of religious beliefs or family expectations etc. This is why men have "hidden" their mistresses for ages. Even though society has sort of evolved, not every one has.

[Cocochai]

Society doesnt force marriage upon anyone. Nowadays, no one blinks an eye when unmarried couples co-habitate, have children, etc. Workplaces, employers, landlords etc really dont care anymore. Being unmarried is not seen as something odd nowadays, like it was in the 50s for instance.

 

Every man who married chose to do so. Maybe he had pressure from his family, his significant other, etc but at the end of the day he chose it.

 

All this boils down to is the MM wants his marriage and homelife and spouse, but he also wants to have fun on the side. Selfish selfish selfish.

 

That's true but if the man can't even be honest about not being able to fully carry the vows, he's not going to admit that to his family whose pressuring him. That's what I meant in regards to society.

[violet1]

But there are still circles where they feel "forced" into living a certain lifestyle - whether it be because of religious beliefs or family expectations etc. This is why men have "hidden" their mistresses for ages. Even though society has sort of evolved, not every one has.

 

I agree with this. In my location, it's very expected to married young and have children. It's very frowned upon to shack up before marriage. People here do feel a lot of pressure to get married.

[Mascara]

I think it's a mistake to think that men who cheat only do so because society frowns upon polyamory. And that they would have preferred to remain unmarried, in a polyamorous lifestyle.

 

The ones who are serial cheaters are often the ones most keen to get married. They like the solid basis of a wife, and would not choose to give her/the life up.

 

Nor would they want a truly polyamory life, where his wife would also be free to have multiple partners.

[ZMM]

It seems like there are a lot of broad generalizations made on this thread and this forum as a whole. For me, I really have no information, besides myself and that is only a one-time situation.

 

You would have had to have been in a lot of affairs and/or get information second-hand for it to be even close to statistically significant.

 

Outside of a therapist who deals in such matters, most people are basing their generalizations on their own, unique experiences.

[Cocochai]

It seems like there are a lot of broad generalizations made on this thread and this forum as a whole. For me, I really have no information, besides myself and that is only a one-time situation.

 

You would have had to have been in a lot of affairs and/or get information second-hand for it to be even close to statistically significant.

 

Outside of a therapist who deals in such matters, most people are basing their generalizations on their own, unique experiences.

 

Yes but how would anyone know if we're not discussing and seeing everyone's views on it??

[violet1]

It seems like there are a lot of broad generalizations made on this thread and this forum as a whole. For me, I really have no information, besides myself and that is only a one-time situation.

 

You would have had to have been in a lot of affairs and/or get information second-hand for it to be even close to statistically significant.

 

Outside of a therapist who deals in such matters, most people are basing their generalizations on their own, unique experiences.

 

That's what forums are all about. Stating your opinions based on your personal experiences.

[ZMM]

Yes but how would anyone know if we're not discussing and seeing everyone's views on it??

 

That's true, but a lot of the posts imply it is that way in all or most cases, rather than - this has been my experience.

 

If you have been in one or two affairs, that is such a small sample, that I just don't think you could come close to using that to generalize about affairs as a whole.

 

I think you definitely can speculate and give opinions on a particular situation based on your own experiences. That works well. I just don't think the generalizations are all that accurate. But, as I said, I don't know, I can only speak from my own experiences, which are very limited.

 

And again, JMO

[Baby123]

That's true, but a lot of the posts imply it is that way in all or most cases, rather than - this has been my experience.

 

If you have been in one or two affairs, that is such a small sample, that I just don't think you could come close to using that to generalize about affairs as a whole.

 

I think you definitely can speculate and give opinions on a particular situation based on your own experiences. That works well. I just don't think the generalizations are all that accurate. But, as I said, I don't know, I can only speak from my own experiences, which are very limited.

 

And again, JMO

 

This is true- I'm not an A expert but I know that my situ is unique and my MM doesn't believe in polygamy and nor was he a serial cheat.

[ZMM]

It seems like there are a lot of broad generalizations made on this thread and this forum as a whole. For me, I really have no information, besides myself and that is only a one-time situation.

 

You would have had to have been in a lot of affairs and/or get information second-hand for it to be even close to statistically significant.

 

Outside of a therapist who deals in such matters, most people are basing their generalizations on their own, unique experiences.

 

I actually probably should have posted this in another thread. Everything kind of runs together after a while.

[BlueBobby]

Of course it's possible, don't know why anyone can't get that.

I love both women.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Here is something I found on a website a few years back. This was a man that posted one time and that was it. What he wrote rang true in many ways - but it might help some understand how some men who have been in affairs feel:

 

 

Written in Dec 2010 on Experience Project

 

I want you to know that I recently went through the same situation. I am working things out in my marriage. I do love my wife, but I feel like I am making do with second best. When I got married, I do not think I ever felt the way I do for my former mistress. I am heart broken and miss her every moment. If it wasnt for my financial situation and my children, I would have easily left my wife of 15 years for the other woman. I did some research on love and I found out that love releases chemicals into the brain that stimulates the same areas as cocain. Love can create a chemical addiction in the brain which is difficult to overcome. I still have triggers that send me back into missing her. The smell of her lotion, driving past key areas where we would go for walks, movies we had seen together, or even specific songs. They all remind me of the greatest summer of my life, and I will never forget her. Nor do I want to. The fact is that love does not conquer all, and so if I did leave my wife for my mistress, our relationship would quickly be overwhelmed with the realities of our baggage. Part of me still thinks we will someday end up together, but now is not the time, and I am married. I will not cheat on my wife any more. If I want to be with someone else, I will divorce her first. The affair was more tragic for my wife because I did fall in love with another woman. Had it been sex alone, she would have been able to cope more easily, but because my wife knows that I told this other woman that I loved her, It made my wife's heartache all the more. We are still not sure if we can work things out, but 15 years of marriage is not easily thrown away]

 

 

I want to state that I am certain many men who choose recovery do not feel this way, but this is an example of one that did.

[MissBee]

Truly loves his BS but just doesn't believe in Monogamy??

 

A friend of mines was debating this... It's not always of course about an unhappy home or not being emotionally connected to the BS. Maybe they simple just don't believe.

 

And if this is the case, then the OW never stood a chance even if they develop an emotional bond together. Any thoughts?

 

If you don't believe in monogamy you should certainly acknowledge and discuss this before marriage and if it is while you're married that you all of a sudden don't believe in it - same goes.

 

But something like that is possible. In the sense that, some MM want an affair i.e. a wife and a gf. The affair for some isn't an indication that they feel any apparent unhappiness with their spouse or want to divorce (but can't) or what have you...it can simply be, I want a wife and a gf. I think we're all capable of developing attraction to others even when in relationships, esp as the relationship becomes more settled. When you're newly in love you have tunnel vision and it's very easy to only have eyes for that individual. As the newness wears off, you still love them but that excitement and tunnel vision isn't usually there and add other stressors in life and circumstances, then it's even easier for you to start noticing other people. Even so, you may not want to get a divorce and you may not hate your spouse but want something new and exciting.

 

In the culture I'm from I think lots of men believe monogamy isn't "natural" but surprise they only believe it isn't natural for men. So many of them express sentiments that cheating isn't about their wife it's just that as a man they need to have other women sometimes. In many of their minds the gf role and wife role are different things and cheating is almost never talked about in terms of unhappiness and not being able to leave. So yes, in that sense, even if they did marry their OW, which in the culture I'm from this is really a rare thing, as having a mistress is simply something men do and generally mistresses don't "upgrade", although it happens...but even if she upgraded to wife, it won't make a difference as the mentality for the cheating is still the same.

 

If a man doesn't believe in monogamy and doesn't believe in being honest about his non-belief and if he believes cheating hurts no one so long as no one finds out (which many cheaters do believe) then it doesn't matter who this person is with as that's simply their belief and how they conduct their life.

[MissBee]

I think it's a mistake to think that men who cheat only do so because society frowns upon polyamory. And that they would have preferred to remain unmarried, in a polyamorous lifestyle.

 

The ones who are serial cheaters are often the ones most keen to get married. They like the solid basis of a wife, and would not choose to give her/the life up.

 

Nor would they want a truly polyamory life, where his wife would also be free to have multiple partners.

 

Yupp x 100!!!!

 

Serial cheaters LOVE being married and love having a secure base with one woman whom they feel will always be there for them, then from that base they go out and do whatever they want, then when they're found out they act the most distraught.

 

Most serial cheaters never initiate divorce neither are they open to polyamory.

[MissBee]

That's true, but a lot of the posts imply it is that way in all or most cases, rather than - this has been my experience.

 

If you have been in one or two affairs, that is such a small sample, that I just don't think you could come close to using that to generalize about affairs as a whole.

 

I think you definitely can speculate and give opinions on a particular situation based on your own experiences. That works well. I just don't think the generalizations are all that accurate. But, as I said, I don't know, I can only speak from my own experiences, which are very limited.

 

And again, JMO

 

I'm sorry, but as an educated person, who in the work that I do we have to also use generalizations, I find that this word gets thrown around on forums as a bad word and usually to discredit an argument, when generalizations actually serve a real purpose and are necessary for the world to function. All theories, even in the sciences for example, are based on generalizations and need to be generalizable to be valid...a generalization by definition will never encompass all and every but encompasses most and enough for it to be a useful rule of thumb. Example: all human bodies are unique but are the same in many ways. As a medical student when learning about bodies you don't learn about individual bodies, but specific bodies that you generalize to humans as a whole. When learning about diseases, you learn about the way symptoms present generally, it will not present the same in each individual but you learn how it generally works so that you have some basis of reference to draw on and then when you see specific people, you can tweak things to account for uniqueness. It is a silly argument when people act like generalizations are "wrong" or "bad" when they are actually the building blocks of knowledge and the problem only comes in when generalizations become stereotypes and where you cannot ever account for differences.

 

In any case, enough has been done in the field of human sciences, particularly psychology for any intelligent person to read on to gather a pretty good idea about particular patterns people exhibit...as humans we're unique yes but not that unique that no patterns or underlying causes can be established. A forum isn't a research study though, so people will naturally bring anecdotes and their own observations as well as previous knowledge based on things they have read, their profession, whatever else they bring to the table. The types of evidence we use here won't be applicable in an actual study but on a forum is perfectly acceptable.When people bring their stories here almost nothing is shocking...the details may differ but generally it still follows a pattern that most human behavior follows and thus is intelligible and understandable and is something we've seen before and can thus make an assessment about. I will only speak for myself, but since I have been here, I haven't given any advice or thought anything about a particular situation that turned out to be way off base. Generally, I am right on the money or close enough, even when the person didn't agree, it has happened that months later they pop back up and exactly as it seemed to be, based on being able to generalize from my larger understanding of relationships and human beings, that is exactly what came to pass. It wasn't magic...it was the work of knowledge being able to be observable and theorized over time based on patterns.

Edited December 30, 2013 by MissBee

[ZMM]

I'm sorry, but as an educated person, who in the work that I do we have to also use generalizations, I find that this word gets thrown around on forums as a bad word and usually to discredit an argument, when generalizations actually serve a real purpose and are necessary for the world to function. All theories, even in the sciences for example, are based on generalizations and need to be generalizable to be valid...a generalization by definition will never encompass all and every but encompasses most and enough for it to be a useful rule of thumb. Example: all human bodies are unique but are the same in many ways. As a medical student when learning about bodies you don't learn about individual bodies, but specific bodies that you generalize to humans as a whole. When learning about diseases, you learn about the way symptoms present generally, it will not present the same in each individual but you learn how it generally works so that you have some basis of reference to draw on and then when you see specific people, you can tweak things to account for uniqueness. It is a silly argument when people act like generalizations are "wrong" or "bad" when they are actually the building blocks of knowledge and the problem only comes in when generalizations become stereotypes and where you cannot ever account for differences.

 

In any case, enough has been done in the field of human sciences, particularly psychology for any intelligent person to read on to gather a pretty good idea about particular patterns people exhibit...as humans we're unique yes but not that unique that no patterns or underlying causes can be established. A forum isn't a research study though, so people will naturally bring anecdotes and their own observations as well as previous knowledge based on things they have read, their profession, whatever else they bring to the table. The types of evidence we use here won't be applicable in an actual study but on a forum is perfectly acceptable.When people bring their stories here almost nothing is shocking...the details may differ but generally it still follows a pattern that most human behavior follows and thus is intelligible and understandable and is something we've seen before and can thus make an assessment about. I will only speak for myself, but since I have been here, I haven't given any advice or thought anything about a particular situation that turned out to be way off base. Generally, I am right on the money or close enough, even when the person didn't agree, it has happened that months later they pop back up and exactly as it seemed to be, based on being able to generalize from my larger understanding of relationships and human beings, that is exactly what came to pass. It wasn't magic...it was the work of knowledge being able to be observable and theorized over time based on patterns.

 

Of course generalizations can be used and do serve a purpose.

 

However, from reading some of the posts, it appears that many on here make generalizations based on one or two life experiences. To me, these are not valid. That's all I was trying to say. If you have a vast knowledge that goes beyond that and your evaluations are usually proven to be accurate, then my post wasn't really directed at you. No offense intended.

[ZMM]

So… we are not qualified to share our opinions until we've had dozens upon dozens of affairs? PASS.

 

 

LOL - of course you can give an opinion, but if you make a generalization based on your one situation, I'm just not sure how valid it is. You can obviously post whatever you want.

 

Many times, you can see similarities with your situation and the situation as posted and give an opinion that may have a high probability of being accurate.

 

But sweeping generalizations, based on what happened in one incident, probably has little value.

 

Enough of this - we don't want to highjack this thread.