How do you "let go"?

[Downtown]

She always turned everything around on me and made me feel as if was in the wrong and the "bad guy", so to speak.

No, she never had the power to "make you feel" anything. Rather, that is how you CHOSE to feel. Realizing this is a very important step because it is empowering. You can now CHOOSE to feel otherwise.

She has a lot of history of mental illness in her extended family, but always is able to put up a strong, put-together facade. She is very charming to the outside observer.

The vast majority of BPDers (those having strong BPD traits) are "high functioning," which means they interact very well with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. They are able to do so because NONE of those people pose a threat to the BPDer's two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned -- and no intimacy that would cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment. This is why a BPDer can be caring and generous all day long with complete strangers and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love her.

She never seemed to appreciate anything I did, and always dwelled on negatives and found things to not be good enough.

A BPDer has such a fragmented, fragile sense of who she is that, to the extent she has any self image at all, it is that of being "The Victim." Although that self image likely was true during early childhood, it has been a FALSE self image since then. Yet, because it is all she has, she maintains a death grip on it and seeks frequent validation of it being true.

 

This means she will tolerate a LTR with you only as long as you continue playing one of two roles: Savior or Perpetrator. Either way, she will receive the "validation" she so desperately wants for her false self image. During the courtship period, you were "The Savior." The implication, of course, is that she must be "The Victim" or you would not be trying so hard to save her from something. Importantly, she wanted that validation but otherwise could care less about being "saved." If you doubt that, simply recollect all the times you pulled her from the raging seas only to have her jump right back into the water as soon as you had turned your back.

 

As soon as her infatuation over you started evaporating (about 4 to 6 months into the r/s), she would have started seeing you as "The Perpetrator" if she is a BPDer. That is, she would start perceiving you to be the cause of her every misfortune. Also, she would start using you as the waste basket into which she could dump all painful thoughts and feelings -- by projecting them onto you. And, because projection works entirely at the subconscious level, she consciously would be convinced all the projections are absolutely true.

 

I mention your two roles (savior and perpetrator) so as to explain that you have been perceived as "all good" ("all white") or "all bad" ("all black"). This means that there is no grey area in which to be "appreciated" for anything you do. As "The Savior," your good deeds are fully expected to occur. As "The Perpetrator," your good deeds are misinterpreted to preserve her false self image. She cannot think of herself as "The Victim" if she is seeing your sacrifices and good will.

Does "needed" = "appreciated"?

No. Not if you are an excessive caregiver like me. I spent a small fortune taking my exW to six different psychologists in weekly visits for 15 years. I did not do it because I felt appreciated but, rather, because I felt needed. I knew she sorely needed the help.

Today, I ended a casual 2 month relationship with a woman who by all accounts is "better" than my ex, but as you mentioned might seem a bit more "boring" and not as dynamic to me as my ex was.

After all the intensely passionate sex and fireworks of being adored by a BPDer, it takes a while for a man "to settle" for the behavior of a normal, emotionally available woman. You don't get the incredible excitement and adoration right out of the starting gate.

I am not sure if I am an excessive caregiver?

Nor am I sure. But I suggest you think about it.

She seemed very narcissistic.

She may have strong traits of both BPD and NPD. The major differences are that, whereas a narcissist is incapable of loving, a BPDer is able to love -- albeit in a very immature way. And, whereas a narcissist is emotionally stable, a BPDer is not.

Does she sound like she may have BPD? I can provide more info if needed?

Neither of us will ever know whether your STBXW "has BPD" (i.e., has full-blown BPD). Only a professional can make that determination and, as I've explained in other threads, it is very unlikely that one would tell a high functioning BPDer the name of her disorder. You nonetheless should be fully capable of spotting the BPD warning signs (symptoms) because there is nothing subtle about red flags such as intense verbal abuse, temper tantrums, inability to trust, and lack of impulse control. If you have the time, it therefore would be helpful if you would tell us which of the following warning signs are strongest:

 

• 1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
  
• 2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
  
• 3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;
  
• 4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;
  
• 5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;
  
• 6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;
  
• 7. Low self esteem;
  
• 8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;
  
• 9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;
  
• 10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;
  
• 11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
  
• 12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;
  
• 13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"
  
• 14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
  
• 15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;
  
• 16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);
  
• 17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and
  
• 18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.
  

FS, if most of those warning signs sound very familiar, I suggest you also read my more detailed description of them in Rebel's thread. My posts there start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/275289-crazy-i-think-but-i-love-her-anyway#post3398735.

[cavalier99]

Just stay NC and keep on going. Just try to forget her now. Catch your thoughts when you think of her and if you do start thinking of her limit the time and snap your self out of it.

 

After 6 months of so of NC the goal really is to shut down thoughts about them. Then roll into some positive affimations. They dont exist anymore.!! Cav

[pickflicker]

No, she never had the power to "make you feel" anything. Rather, that is how you CHOSE to feel. Realizing this is a very important step because it is empowering. You can now CHOOSE to feel otherwise.

The vast majority of BPDers (those having strong BPD traits) are "high functioning," which means they interact very well with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. They are able to do so because NONE of those people pose a threat to the BPDer's two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned -- and no intimacy that would cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment. This is why a BPDer can be caring and generous all day long with complete strangers and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love her.

A BPDer has such a fragmented, fragile sense of who she is that, to the extent she has any self image at all, it is that of being "The Victim." Although that self image likely was true during early childhood, it has been a FALSE self image since then. Yet, because it is all she has, she maintains a death grip on it and seeks frequent validation of it being true.

 

This means she will tolerate a LTR with you only as long as you continue playing one of two roles: Savior or Perpetrator. Either way, she will receive the "validation" she so desperately wants for her false self image. During the courtship period, you were "The Savior." The implication, of course, is that she must be "The Victim" or you would not be trying so hard to save her from something. Importantly, she wanted that validation but otherwise could care less about being "saved." If you doubt that, simply recollect all the times you pulled her from the raging seas only to have her jump right back into the water as soon as you had turned your back.

 

As soon as her infatuation over you started evaporating (about 4 to 6 months into the r/s), she would have started seeing you as "The Perpetrator" if she is a BPDer. That is, she would start perceiving you to be the cause of her every misfortune. Also, she would start using you as the waste basket into which she could dump all painful thoughts and feelings -- by projecting them onto you. And, because projection works entirely at the subconscious level, she consciously would be convinced all the projections are absolutely true.

 

I mention your two roles (savior and perpetrator) so as to explain that you have been perceived as "all good" ("all white") or "all bad" ("all black"). This means that there is no grey area in which to be "appreciated" for anything you do. As "The Savior," your good deeds are fully expected to occur. As "The Perpetrator," your good deeds are misinterpreted to preserve her false self image. She cannot think of herself as "The Victim" if she is seeing your sacrifices and good will.No. Not if you are an excessive caregiver like me. I spent a small fortune taking my exW to six different psychologists in weekly visits for 15 years. I did not do it because I felt appreciated but, rather, because I felt needed. I knew she sorely needed the help.

After all the intensely passionate sex and fireworks of being adored by a BPDer, it takes a while for a man "to settle" for the behavior of a normal, emotionally available woman. You don't get the incredible excitement and adoration right out of the starting gate.Nor am I sure. But I suggest you think about it.

She may have strong traits of both BPD and NPD. The major differences are that, whereas a narcissist is incapable of loving, a BPDer is able to love -- albeit in a very immature way. And, whereas a narcissist is emotionally stable, a BPDer is not.

Neither of us will ever know whether your STBXW "has BPD" (i.e., has full-blown BPD). Only a professional can make that determination and, as I've explained in other threads, it is very unlikely that one would tell a high functioning BPDer the name of her disorder. You nonetheless should be fully capable of spotting the BPD warning signs (symptoms) because there is nothing subtle about red flags such as intense verbal abuse, temper tantrums, inability to trust, and lack of impulse control. If you have the time, it therefore would be helpful if you would tell us which of the following warning signs are strongest:

 

• 1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
  
• 2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
  
• 3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;
  
• 4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;
  
• 5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;
  
• 6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;
  
• 7. Low self esteem;
  
• 8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;
  
• 9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;
  
• 10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;
  
• 11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
  
• 12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;
  
• 13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"
  
• 14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
  
• 15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;
  
• 16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);
  
• 17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and
  
• 18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.
  

FS, if most of those warning signs sound very familiar, I suggest you also read my more detailed description of them in Rebel's thread. My posts there start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/275289-crazy-i-think-but-i-love-her-anyway#post3398735.

 

I've looked at your posts, and you think everyone's ex who acts like assh*le has BPD. Some people are just assh*les. They're not mentally ill.

[Downtown]

I've looked at your posts, and you think everyone's ex who acts like assh*le has BPD.

Pickflicker, if I've been telling everyone that their "Ex has BPD" in my posts, it should be a simple matter for you to quote one sentence where I have made such an absurd claim. I therefore challenge you to produce such a sentence and tell us the post number and date.

 

Please note that I have quoted your sentence above so you can see I am responding to something you ACTUALLY WROTE, not something I imagined you might be thinking. I ask that you extend me the same courtesy when being critical of me.

[FortunateSon]

I am 7 months post BU, 1 month NC after she contacted me in December. She seems to have a number of BPD traits list by Downtown, but there are some she doesn't seem to have? I still find that I think about her good qualities and not her dysfunctional/bad qualities. I am going to push forward with NC. I have found I am either not ready for serious dating or I have not met the right person yet. I would really like to let go of the ex and take her off of the pedestal, I feel like it is happening but not as quickly as I hoped. I suppose it just takes more time? I feel like she is moving on quicker than me but it is probably all in my head...she probably thinks I am the one moving on faster. I keep telling myself it is not a competition and only worry about what I can control.