I was the OW without knowing - tell MW?

[LornaFE]

Hey guys,

 

It hurts me to write in the OW/OM-Forum, because he let me believe I dated a single guy. I know, this sounds stupid, how could anyone not know it? The reason is simple. He lifes in Europe and his wife in the US. So I never knew about her. Other reasons:

- he was telling everone he was single, fed up with his nomad life and looking for a woman to marry and have children with (even in class - he is a teacher)

- I know him since april and he dated a woman that he even introduced to me as his "girlfriend" around the end of June

 

Before this introduction I had showed interest and offered him to find a new flat, but now that I new he had a girlfriend, I crossed him out of my mind as "not available". In August he wrote me an email that he could use my help with the flat, and I agreed. He was only for one year in Germany, so maybe just looking fro a friend.

We met for dinner and it soon turned out, the flat-search was only an excuse, because he did not speak much about it. Anyway, we paid seperately. On the second date he already offered me "to show his old appartment", which I refused and instead asked him where his girlfriend was. He told me:

"That was nothing. She is married. I did not know about her marital status."

At that moment I thought: How stupid can anyone be not to know if a colleague of his is married or not?

I found this a bit bizarre, but we kept meeting anyway. He was good company. I told him, that I had crossed him out of my mind, so if he was really serious he had to be patient. I had to establish back the old ideas when I was knowing him the first 2 1/2 month.

Yeah, he was patient with having sex, but was pushing other body contact, like wrapping my arm around me and after two more dates, kissing. Actually, he was so clumsy with this that I even thought the girl before had told him she was married because of awkward kissing. But I felt that he was happy to be with me and my fondness of him had also grown.

At the end of September he met his parents who came over for a holiday's week in Slovakia and Hungary. I also went to see friends, so this week was not too long a separation and we did not contact each other.

In October we became a couple. We met every other evening, he was too busy for more than that, I understood. But after four or five weeks I sensed I was still feeling single and wondered why that is. I asked him if he had girlfriends before, yes he had, like six of them serious relationships. But he also counted his colleague to "serious", because he was. Another time I asked him if he had ever actually lived with a woman, that is when he said: "I was married. But we were always separated. She lived in the states and me in Europe. So I was married for 8, no actually 9 years til 2010."

I was no too happy about it, but did not show him. It is a sad story and a man of 39 years can be divorced. Everone makes mistakes. So this was maybe the reason why he was not so emotionally involved so far - because he feared this could be an issue for me! I was relieved.

But it still did not really feel like we were a couple. I told a friend that he is not as open as I wished him to be, but she said, I was wanting to much. So I decided to open up to gain his trust.

That's how I fell really in love. But now that I gave more, I also expected more. Yes, he gave me compliments I had not asked for and he told me he wants me to stay, but we still met only every other evening, even at the weekends he had

- work to prepare

- several concert cards to sold out concerts

- a trip he could not cancel anymore

etc.

When I asked him, what we will do for Christmas, he told me his parents are coming again. I was happy and said he could introduce me. He answered with various excuses why that was not possible, like: We are travelling to Berlin, to Prague ... I said: I could come over, just for a dinner. He said: But my dad is so embarrassing, I do not want you to meet him etc. pp.

I got suspicious and later on caught him lying about an evening he was so busy, but later admitted to have had dinner with a "language partner". The day of leaving came near and I still was asking him to meet his partens, too. He refused, so I decided to break up the day before he left. I guessed he sensed that, because before I could open my mouth that day he had a breakdown and a crying fit he hugged me as close as he never had done before, sobbing: "I love you." I asked him what was so sad about it, as an answer he said: "Can you keep a secret? But do not tell ANYbody. Not my colleagues, not your former classmates, not even your friends."

Yeah, well you can guess what the secret was.

I am still married.

Then it started: BUT

- I havent seen her for years

- it is the last time

- we are planning this trip and this divorce for years

- I want to marry you and have children with you

blablabla

And then he cried again, sobbing like a little boy.

So, I believed him.

This was December 13th. He said he will be back on Jan 4th.

Of course, after he left, I came to my senses that he could not spend three weeks away in the arms of another woman if he really loved me.

I texted him, that he should come back before Christmas, I would forgive him, but not if he left me alone the entire time.

He begged my patience and told me several hundred times how much he loved me. When they left for prague he convinced me to use WhatsApp because calling and texting outside the county would be too expensive. I first did not want, but now I know how good this was. In his messages he scolded me for being impatient and for calling him a liar, because he never lied, he was "protecting" me. He was "in a loveless marriage for many years, and where there is no love, there is no true marrage, and, therefore, no cheating." He sais he don't want her to know about me, so he wouldn't be sued for adultery and could leave the marriage "amicable".

He did not show any sign of remorse concerning his wife nor had he done anything wrong in the past. He never lied to me. When he comes back in January we can start to make children instantly, because the divorce will be in March anyway.

At first I wanted him back, but now I am disgusted.

Of course his wife will never know, she sees him only a few times a year. I bet he is also playing with her dreams of wanting a family.

I think I really should tell her. I wished the so-called "girlfriend" he introduced me to, had warned me. I would have spared me from wasting a 3 month time and suffering like hell for being betrayed. I think women should ally against guys like this, otherwise they are the ones who are exploited emotionally.

 

What do you think about all this?

Should I contact her?

Should I establish Zero Contact?

 

Sorry for writing so much, but it really hurts me and I had to write that off.

Thanks in advance for answering.

Lorna

[LornaFE]

actually, I wanted to establish NC since three days, but I am still to weak:(

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

I think you should tell her, but do what YOU think is right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I was being cheated on like that, I would want to know.

[LornaFE]

Thank you Mickey. Do you think she would believe me?

[Raena]

Something doesn't seem right. How long was he in Europe and she in the US? Why is he spending 3 weeks with her?

 

I went through a similar situation with my ex when he and I first started dating. He did the blubbering and crying about how much he loved me and wanted it to work and how he couldn't tell me because he knew I'd never be with him and blah, blah, blah. Trust me, if I had come here and talked to other people, I would have ended the relationship right there and saved myself years and years of unhappiness. If I were you, I'd do the same... end it now and save yourself future unhappiness. You've only been dating him for 3 months, I know it may seem like a lifetime but it really is only a blip in the span of your life. Let him go. If he is going to lie to you about something this huge this early on, then he will lie again in the future about other things.

 

Don't end up in my shoes.... 11 years later and he cheated on me with a younger woman and then made sure to tell me how much he loves her and can't let her go... pretty much exactly the same story he told me about me. Get rid of him. People who lie that easily are ones to avoid.

[krazikat]

I would want to know.

 

Think of how you feel about 3 months. She has invested years in this liar.

[SoleMate]

I'd most likely tell the BS (betrayed spouse) in this situation. Don't have any expectations, just provide the facts and let her do with them as she wishes.

 

Also, for you, you are absolutely right....if he loves you like an honorable man, he will not be leaving you to visit her. He's already lied and deceived you so much and caused you severe pain that would have been completely avoided if he were honest. Glad you are in NC...it is your best hope for detaching from this user and getting your life back.

[ElectricTangerine]

My xMM told me he was separated too, but he wasn't. I can relate to the pain and betrayal.

 

Since your MM and his BS live on different sides of the planet, she is much less likely to find out and become suspicious by herself. It's a lot easier to lie and a long distance relationship. I think usually it's best to just let things go, but in your case I'd say something to the BS. If I was her, I'd want to know what kind of games my H is playing over in Europe. But protect yourself, there is a chance this may backfire.

[LornaFE]

Thank you all for your advice. This is all so unbelievable for me.

 

@Raena: He is already in Europe for about over 10 years. He moved a lot this time. He said, they never really lived together, they married and he left for europe soon. They spending Christmas and New Year together. In his words "give me two weeks to resolve things"!

 

@ElectricTangerine: How do you think it could "backfire"? From him or from her? Wouldn't she be glad to know that her husband is a cheater so she can let go? He did not even care for protection! And I have evidence en masse.

 

Thanks, you all.

Lorna

[OldRover]

Something's strange..... if he had been separated and there was nothing left, why would he not divorce? There "may" be a reason.... but need to know.

 

And with three months involved, I could argue to do nothing and see what happens upon his return. There may be truth in what he says. The old marriage could be totally dead and the divorce is only a formality.... which can take time. The old gf, could have just been a date or two. If both were dead, that wouldn't be my topic of conversation on a first date.

 

Suspect there's more to the story. Could be worth waiting to find out.

[cozycottagelg]

If you use whatsapp you can email conversations to yourself. Do that, keep everything.

 

Maybe he will truly divorce and everything he said is true. I would like to believe that, I'm sure you would, too. However I've been on these forums for long enough now that I know it typically does not work out that way.

[LornaFE]

@ old rover: What do you mean with "there might be a reason?" I guess they don't have kids yet if you mean that. No because he says that, just because she comes to Europe so often (in summer, it was of cause also her, not his parents, as I found out).

[Raena]

I just find it strange they they married and he immediately left for Europe and never actually lived with her. Something about that doesn't seem right. Why didn't he divorce her in those 10 years?

 

I smell a fish is all I'm saying.

[LornaFE]

@raena: He told me he couldn't find work in the US and she is working something US-related (governmental or so) so they could not live together. Actually he told my his parents are begging him to come back. I think I know now who was begging him.

Is that the fish you smell?

or is it something about not being capable to have a "real" relationship at all?

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

Thank you Mickey. Do you think she would believe me?

 

 

 

That is an impossible question to answer. There is a good chance she will believe you, but there also is a good chance she would not believe you. A lot depends on how good a liar he is, how gullible she is, and whether or not she has had past suspicions of him cheating, and how damning any evidence you provide is. For example, if you give her a handwritten note that he had given to you, if you give her an email he had sent to you, that contain very inappropriate messages for a married man to be sending to a single woman, then she would be more likely to believe you.

 

 

I think you should do what you believe is right. My opinion is that telling her is the right thing to do. In my opinion, this isn't about his wife, this is about you doing what you believe is right so you can live with yourself with a clear conscience. I would want to be told. If she already knows about him cheating or the marriage already is over and they just haven't filed yet then there would be no harm in telling her either, but all of his actions that you posted, switching to whatsapp, not introducing you, going to be with her, and of course the fact that he lied to you about it for so long, all make the case for his wife NOT knowing.

[ElectricTangerine]

Something about this story just seems strange to me. Spouses living on different continents for 10 years, him actively living the life of a single man in Europe... It definitely seems like they are still very much connected and the marriage is far from dead. What I meant with backfire was that one or both of them might start harassing you. He'll probably be pissed that you upset the wife by telling her the truth and as a consequence, he now has some damage control to do and might lose the safety net that is her. And she might be one of those women who'd rather not know about the fact that he's cheating. She might suspect there's something going on, but the suspicions are never confirmed and she can continue to live a lie with her head buried deeply in sand. Instead of taking responsibility for his actions, the attention may be turned to you. And instead of the BS blaming his actions, you might be on the receiving end of her anger, no matter how stupid and irrational that is. It's just easier to blame a 3rd person. Bottom line, you don't know what kind of woman she is or what's going on in their marriage. Not everyone appreciates being told that their spouse is cheating. That being said, I'd still let the BS know in this situation. Just be careful and protect yourself from the worst case scenario.

[LornaFE]

Thank you all so much for your advice.

 

@cozycottaglg Thank you for the tipp with WhatsApp. It is good to keep the proof.

 

Actually, I already wrote to her. An email that she should contact me, and I included my phonenumber. And I told her to read what I had send her via private chat.

That was extremely stupid.

 

It was HIM who answered back via WhatsApp and he was furious! I have no idea if she ever saw the messages or if he even has control over her emails. She did not answer back but blocked me.

 

So I guess she never even opened the chatmessages. That he came up with a quick lie about who I was and told her to block me. He is a very good lier, because he looks so harmless and when nervous talks faster than your ear can follow.

 

I think it is illogical that she did not answer at all.

[LornaFE]

@ ElectricTangerine You seem to be right. Maybe she did not answer because she wants to continue to live in that state of being cheated on, als long as she has those islands with him every half a year. To me this is almost unbelievable, but I can understand that someone clings to a 10-yr marriage no matter how red the flags are.

Thank you.

[LornaFE]

FYI: I was searching the net for what has happend to me and I came across the terms sociopath and psychopath.

 

And really, if I had known about this earlier I would have seen all the red flags that are obvious when you date a sociopath:

-wanting to marry me instantly

-investing nothing (he never paid for a dinner with me and never gave me the smallest present)

-he often talked bad about other people and was very convinced of himself

-despite during and after sex I felt he was not emotionally connected to me

-when I confronted him with his lies he accused me of being crazy and started to have an agressive tone

-he made me feel guilty even when he had done something wrong

-he was always the victim, had no sense of responsibility

-he had excuses for everything, even for the smallest things not worth excusing

-pushing body contact

etc.

 

You can search the net for "Donna Andersen", I found her videos very helpful, esp. "why do sociopaths marry". There she said that psychos like the idea of commitment. That other people are commited to them. But they are not commited to their partners.

 

The website Dating a sociopath helped me to understand, too.

 

Cheers~Lorna

[whichwayisup]

@ ElectricTangerine You seem to be right. Maybe she did not answer because she wants to continue to live in that state of being cheated on, als long as she has those islands with him every half a year. To me this is almost unbelievable, but I can understand that someone clings to a 10-yr marriage no matter how red the flags are.

Thank you.

 

For all you know, maybe she has someone on the side as well... But if not, it is her right to fight for her marriage, 10 years is a lot to throw away without giving a spouse to a chance to make it right again. People deserve a second chance if they are worthy of it, especially if the love is still there and both are willing to work together to make the marriage better.

[krazikat]

Thank you all so much for your advice.

 

@cozycottaglg Thank you for the tipp with WhatsApp. It is good to keep the proof.

 

Actually, I already wrote to her. An email that she should contact me, and I included my phonenumber. And I told her to read what I had send her via private chat.

That was extremely stupid.

 

It was HIM who answered back via WhatsApp and he was furious! I have no idea if she ever saw the messages or if he even has control over her emails. She did not answer back but blocked me.

 

So I guess she never even opened the chatmessages. That he came up with a quick lie about who I was and told her to block me. He is a very good lier, because he looks so harmless and when nervous talks faster than your ear can follow.

 

I think it is illogical that she did not answer at all.

 

She may never have even seen the email Lorna.

[Raena]

If he responded to you right away then it is very likely that she never saw it. Is there another way to contact her?

 

Either way, it sounds like you have your answer as to how he feels about you. If he went straight to being mad at you then there is more to this story than you know or he willing to tell.

 

And yes... all those are signs of a sociopath... I suspect I may be dealing with one of those too, but it really doesn't make much difference what title you put on it. Just dump his butt and be done with it.

[Eggplant]

I found out my "boyfriend" was married after 15 months. Be glad he told you after 3. In my case, it was easy for him to hide it because he also lived in another country. He hadn't been back in 5 years. His sister covered for him -- I talked to her on the phone. Wow. And what's especially awful/a blessing about the situation is that you have to get out immediately, unlike most sad break-ups.

[LornaFE]

@raena: Is still have one channel to her where I am not blocked yet. As she never answered and I now how controlling and convincing he is, I have to wait until their holiday is over. As long as she is at his side he will talk her dizzy.

 

On the other side you are right, I should forget about everything: I really want to tell her that she has a cheating husband and get a resonse that my message reached her, but maybe in one week I don't even bother anymore.

 

 

@eggplant: What an unbelievable story! 15 month! How could his sister cover him, she is a women, too. Why is it so difficult to be honest for some people. *sigh* They are suffereing from their own lies, too. (in a certain way, at least) Did they never hear "the truth will set you free" ?

[LornaFE]

I am in NC for three days now, yay! I did not say I do not wanted any contact anymore, because this would have lead to an endless discussion via Whatsapp. His last sentence to me was something like that he would forgive me (!!!) if I would accept his point of view = he never lied to me and all he did was only to have a smooth separation from his wife, who is only a friend now anyway.

I simply deleted all his contact data. He is still not back in Germany and too greedy to call from another EU-country, but I guess he will call when he is back. I am thinking if I will just do not take the calls or tell him clearly that I am done with him?

 

Another thing came to my mind. Why is it important for me to call him a sociopath? I came across the term during my research during the last weeks. And finally I had an answer what this "wrong" was I had felt all the time. He certainly has traits of narcisstic and anti social personality disorder. And the therapists say these traits are incurable. They can get slightly better, but only if the person is willing to work on it. The latter will never happen with him, he would never go to therapy, and love cannot cure anything, even if we wished it was like this.

Conclusion: Since knowing he will never change due to his mental state I accepted that, no matter what he will do in the nearer future, he will for sure hurt me again.