Is ACTUALLY being a nice person really a hurdle in dating?

[Woggle]

If a guy is a jerk to me I will punch him in the face.

 

I have dealt with enough sexist men to last me an entire lifetime and any guy who says he is a nice guy is NEVER a nice guy and only cares about sex!!

 

I like guys who are sweet, funny and romantic but they are the hardest ones to find now and most of them my age are already married and I won’t date younger guys ‘cause they are way too sleazy and I want a guy that will marry me and have children.

 

I am watching all my sisters and friends having kids and I feel like I am the one that is being left behind but I am NOT settling for some guy who believes I should have sex with him on the first date ‘cause he paid for the meal which describes the mentality of most men.

 

My ex-boyfriend WAS a nice guy when we were together and he was romantic and was always doing sweet things for me and promised me he would love me forever but now I see the problem was I let him have male friends and my Mum told me not to do that ‘cause if a guy hangs around with enough slimebuckets he will eventually become one too and she was right so now I’m going to be protective of my new Boyfriend and not let him have ANY male friends so he doesn’t turn out the same.

 

He has Aspie and when we first met he was kinda shy but since we become friends he has really come out of his shell family and he is soo cute!! He has never had a girlfriend and I don’t know why ‘cause he has lots of good qualities but it doesn’t bother me.

 

So future men in your life are not allowed to have any friends of his own gender? Honestly I would run.

[MissBee]

I don't mean self-proclaimed "nice guys" who get bitter and spout woman-hating nonsense anytime they get rejected or a girl can't read their mind.

 

I mean actully nice people who do favors for each other without expecting anything in return, care about other people's well-being and can empathize with them.

 

Are all these traits REALLY a hurdle? Because from observation I'm doubting it. In fact all the players I know actually mimic those nice people.

 

So is whole "nice guys finish last" thing a bunch of crap?

 

I haven't seen it act as a hurdle either.

 

There is a difference between being a push over/doormat/insecure person and also being a self-proclaimed "nice guy" or girl who is really either manipulative or a push over who does things to get people to like them then throws a tantrum when it doesn't work. Those two things are not really nice IMO.

 

But genuinely nice people project very differently and I don't see them having problems dating because of it.

Edited December 25, 2013 by MissBee

[MissBee]

If a guy is a jerk to me I will punch him in the face.

 

I have dealt with enough sexist men to last me an entire lifetime and any guy who says he is a nice guy is NEVER a nice guy and only cares about sex!!

 

I like guys who are sweet, funny and romantic but they are the hardest ones to find now and most of them my age are already married and I won’t date younger guys ‘cause they are way too sleazy and I want a guy that will marry me and have children.

 

I am watching all my sisters and friends having kids and I feel like I am the one that is being left behind but I am NOT settling for some guy who believes I should have sex with him on the first date ‘cause he paid for the meal which describes the mentality of most men.

 

My ex-boyfriend WAS a nice guy when we were together and he was romantic and was always doing sweet things for me and promised me he would love me forever but now I see the problem was I let him have male friends and my Mum told me not to do that ‘cause if a guy hangs around with enough slimebuckets he will eventually become one too and she was right so now I’m going to be protective of my new Boyfriend and not let him have ANY male friends so he doesn’t turn out the same.

 

He has Aspie and when we first met he was kinda shy but since we become friends he has really come out of his shell family and he is soo cute!! He has never had a girlfriend and I don’t know why ‘cause he has lots of good qualities but it doesn’t bother me.

 

 

What?!

 

You can "let" you bf have male friends???

 

So who will be his friends? Women? Dogs? Just you?

 

I wouldn't want to be with a man who I can control in that way. GENUINELY nice men who are also into you will have decent friends and even if they have some wayward friends it will not change their behavior. You will have a very difficult time if the only reason your man is with you and not being a "slime bucket" is because you control his social interactions. The man who would allow that also sounds like those pushover nice guys too who in fact have low self esteem so they are very agreeable and allow others to dictate their lives so they are liked.

[sarbunoemi]

Nice, confident guys are a great catch, they have sex appeal because they are confident.

Too nice guys, doormats aren't because they are insecure.

[crederer]

Yah I find after a while people start taking it for granted. You do nice things and all you want in return is appreciation for those things. It works in the short term but over time people start expecting these things, and then the nice gestures you do are expected. Then once you get to that stage, you gotta step it up because they want nice gestures, but your nice gestures are no longer nice gestures, rather requirements, and it turns into a never ending loop where you have to constantly be upping the ante and that's not going to work long term.

 

Sometimes you gotta pull back just to let them know you're not at their beckoning call and remind them that these are acts that are to be appreciated.

 

I dunno if that makes sense, but that's how I feel. I think me being like that has been a contributing factor to my failed relationships.

[carhill]

I found actually being a 'nice' person while dating helped weed out the incompatible potentials. For many, kindness, consideration, thoughtfulness and generosity apparently were annoying. I didn't see that as 'bad', rather 'good information'. Some even said as much directly. I liked their honesty. So, if being 'nice' is a hurdle, IMO it's one of many hurdles in the getting to know process. If personalities are not synergistic, it won't work out.

 

That said, there is a clear and present danger, with some personality types, of falling into the 'letting one love them' trap, where the subject of the 'niceness' merely allows it to perpetuate without any substantive investment of themselves, rather using social skills to facilitate continuation whilst passing time, pursuing personal interests or looking for a BBD. That's happened a few times. I guess that could be considered a hurdle of its own.

 

I think the generalization of 'nice guys/people finishing last' is demographic-dependent. Clearly, the traits can be advantages in some demographics and disadvantages in others. IMO, the key is finding a synergistic demographic, not only for intimate relations but for general relations as well. This means cultivating synergistic friendships and business/social relationships. Normal human relations stuff. Different strokes for different folks. If one enjoys being nice, that's the reward. No dependence on outcome.

[Mrlonelyone]

Nice, confident guys are a great catch, they have sex appeal because they are confident.

Too nice guys, doormats aren't because they are insecure.

 

 

The problem with this discussion IMHO is that people shy away from the solid scientific ideas that give this topic a concrete foundation. There are men who are seen by women are more paternal and parental. Then there are men who are seen by women as more sexy and desirable especially when they are most likely to get pregnant (i.e. when they are young and/or ovulating). That is not an opinion that is a fact.

 

 

There are and their always have been men who are leaders and men who are followers. Men who are great dads and men who have great genes and who can afford to go from woman to woman fertilize then not raise the kid. Often the woman does not want the sperm donor to raise the kid. Men who are "nice" and men who may or may not be nice but it does not matter because they make girls wet.

[FrankieFrank]

Yah I find after a while people start taking it for granted. You do nice things and all you want in return is appreciation for those things. It works in the short term but over time people start expecting these things, and then the nice gestures you do are expected. Then once you get to that stage, you gotta step it up because they want nice gestures, but your nice gestures are no longer nice gestures, rather requirements, and it turns into a never ending loop where you have to constantly be upping the ante and that's not going to work long term.

 

Sometimes you gotta pull back just to let them know you're not at their beckoning call and remind them that these are acts that are to be appreciated.

 

I dunno if that makes sense, but that's how I feel. I think me being like that has been a contributing factor to my failed relationships.

 

I'd like to think what you are describing is a character flaw of some individuals and there are decent people who can recognize the effort put into things.

[bestniceguy]

The man who would allow that also sounds like those pushover nice guys too who in fact have low self esteem so they are very agreeable and allow others to dictate their lives so they are liked.

 

 

i'm a nice guy and I've been called a pushover because i'm not aggressive. why can't these pushover nice guys experience relationships too? a strong women would be a perfect partner, but all this crap advice is doing is attempting to ensure they never experience a relationship.

[kodakgirl]

The vast majority of genuine nice guys who are confident, have a sense of humor, have lives of their own and stand up for themselves will do just fine on the dating scene. In fact some of them will probably be highly desired. They can be among the best catches out there. I also don't think this type of guy is rare either. There are many such guys who are out there...it's just that most of them are in relationships and have probably been in relationships since high school or college. Their periods being single seldom last longer than 3-6 months.

 

The "nice" guys who are being nice because they have an agenda will struggle. Being "nice" is a strategy for these guys. It's like they're tossing away their entire self-worth in the hopes that the woman will stay with them. They aren't nice; they are soft, weak, pathetic, insecure and have no balls. And then they're usually confused and eventually turn bitter when women frequently reject them. These guys aren't rare either, but I doubt they're as prevalent as it seems sometimes. It's just that there's a disproportionate number of them who are still single in their mid 20s and beyond.

 

For people who are truly nice, that niceness comes naturally, it's a part of who you are. Likewise with having a spine. They were likely raised that way from childhood and grew up in a good environment.

 

I totally agree with this. I've never understood why "nice" is paraded as this bad thing to be, because all the men I've known who were genuinely nice, deep-down nice, were either in a relationship with a really nice girl (or guy!) or else I wanted them madly, haha. I guess it depends somewhat on your definition of "nice"-- someone who I consider genuinely nice is many or all of: kind, caring, sweet, compassionate, thoughtful, selfless. Really nice people are really nice to everyone, they help out strangers, they're there for their friends, they'll do anything for their close family, they're understanding of the staff at restaurants and stores. They have a certain way about them that people warm to right away. I'm lucky enough to know quite a few people like this, and I absolutely want to be with someone like this. (I'd like to think I am too, at least mostly). Honestly, I don't think there is anything more attractive!

 

I think really genuinely nice people who are also emotionally healthy have a really good chance of finding a great partner-- I see it all the time. The great people I know extol the "nice" qualities of partners or potential partners more than anything else! I really, really don't think really nice people should try and be any less nice to attract partners-- instead they should just keep going until they find a really nice partner.

[ThaWholigan]

There's nothing I need to say here really other than to corroborate - being nice isn't a hurdle unless it's a defining attribute. It is ambiguous enough a trait that it really isn't a clincher in the grand scheme of things. Sure, a person would like someone that treats him/her well, but just being nice on it's own is not going to sway it in your direction. Look to your other traits and cultivate them.

[bestniceguy]

There's nothing I need to say here really other than to corroborate - being nice isn't a hurdle unless it's a defining attribute. It is ambiguous enough a trait that it really isn't a clincher in the grand scheme of things. Sure, a person would like someone that treats him/her well, but just being nice on it's own is not going to sway it in your direction. Look to your other traits and cultivate them.

being nice is a hurdle.

[BillJJ]

You do realise if nice and decent people actually existed in this world my first girlfriend would still be alive now and the very same drunken dickhead driver that crashed into her would be rotting inside a prison cell but that is not the case so where are all these ‘nice’ people? There are very few good and decent people left in this ****hole and I am not talking about the people that sit on their asses all day and do **** nothing and go on to claim they are such ‘wonderful’ and ‘kind-hearted’ people because they follow the law but go on and entertain me and show me a so called ‘nice’ person and I will show you another ninety nine that could use a good bullet in the head.

 

Good people actually stand up for their beliefs and do ’good’ things not spend all day on a computer whinging because they can’t get a girlfriend. Look, if a quirky musician with ADHD and OCD that is no male model can get three women to fall for him then the problem is you. Stop blaming other people for your poor social skills, your lack of talent and the fact you are boring. My girlfriend got bullied for being slightly overweight when she was younger and didn’t have her first boyfriend until she was 18 and where were all these so-called ‘nice guys’ lining up to be with her because I have known her for 27 years and I didn’t see them and they weren’t defending her either and standing up to bullying.

 

There is no such thing as a nice man or woman.

[regine_phalange]

Nothing can beat a nice guy with character. And I mean, nothing.

[Kate9292]

Nothing can beat a nice guy with character. And I mean, nothing.

 

 

It always cracks me up how boys think being arrogant jerk is a way to go. They will usually get over that idea after trying that in real life and a few rejections. Maybe a few dozens if they're that stubborn.

[Esoteric Elf]

Nice guy really needs to be defined. Some people mistakenly label themselves as nice guys, when they really are something else. Take me, for instance, a doormat, though I admittedly don't mind being one since I am only too happy to oblige people. Nice guys will act nicely but are not "yes men"; they will say "no" when "no" needs to be said.

 

That being mentioned, yes, I do believe many nice guys can do fairly well with women. No, they will not attract them en masse, but some of the worthwhile nice girls will meet up with these nice guys and make sparks fly!

[RedRobin]

Interesting responses...

 

 

I've never looked down on men who were nice. I actively seek them out.

 

 

My best and most loving relationships were with men who had a habit of giving a little too much too soon... as it made ME feel safe to give to them as well.

 

 

I've had situations where men were actually mean to me or disrespectful about my gifts and time. As others have said... it's good information about people who want or need to be treated badly or are pure takers. I'm not going to stop trying to be 'nice' to men I meet because I want a 'nice' guy who is also hot for me.

 

 

Problem is, lots of 'players' are great at aping 'nice' behaviors early on... but they can't fake legitimate caring. It's the reason I always wait 2-3 months before becoming intimate with anyone. No matter how nice they seem in the beginning. That's what it takes to sort out the users, players... from those who genuinely care about me or anyone as a human being.

 

 

I'm also suspect of people who talk about others as 'pushovers' or insecure. Everyone is insecure about something. Those with no empathy, users, takers, and manipulaters... are the ones who push to see what they can get away with... and despise or ridicule those who let them... rather than view themselves as users.

[Mrlonelyone]

I started a new thread in order to not derail this thread.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/451239-do-you-want-know-why-male-female-relations-bit-adversarial

 

The bottom line on this for me is that niceness in dating is a negative because dating is not nice and never has been. Mating, hasn't been nice since pre-cambrian times. We are the sum total of all the evolution of life for the last billion+ years. In that time mating went from hermaproditic creatures stabbing the other with their penis. To defined sexes playing out various manipulative strategies to have sex with the desired candidate.

 

Human dating is no different. We just have complicated it with layers of culture and overthinking.

 

If you are too nice to play on the emotions of a prospective partner then yes being too nice is a handicap in dating. It is all about playing on the emotions and instincts of a potential partner coupled with raw attractiveness. Then...add on to that... emotional intimacy and companionship and you can grow a human relationship. Dating is not really about that, at first. Dating is about look at him/her they make me horny.

[Eau Claire]

The vast majority of genuine nice guys who are confident, have a sense of humor, have lives of their own and stand up for themselves will do just fine on the dating scene. In fact some of them will probably be highly desired. They can be among the best catches out there. I also don't think this type of guy is rare either. There are many such guys who are out there...it's just that most of them are in relationships and have probably been in relationships since high school or college. Their periods being single seldom last longer than 3-6 months.

 

The "nice" guys who are being nice because they have an agenda will struggle. Being "nice" is a strategy for these guys. It's like they're tossing away their entire self-worth in the hopes that the woman will stay with them. They aren't nice; they are soft, weak, pathetic, insecure and have no balls. And then they're usually confused and eventually turn bitter when women frequently reject them. These guys aren't rare either, but I doubt they're as prevalent as it seems sometimes. It's just that there's a disproportionate number of them who are still single in their mid 20s and beyond.

 

For people who are truly nice, that niceness comes naturally, it's a part of who you are. Likewise with having a spine. They were likely raised that way from childhood and grew up in a good environment.

 

Agree.

 

Some guys think that If they just do one more thing that a woman will get a 'wow' moment. Then they get upset that they can't 'buy' love. Not always, but often, their next emotion is some anti woman reaction. They think they did everything right in the manual and that should of won her over.

 

Guys should stop and think. If a woman bakes you a cake, gives her body, sews a button on your shirt...does it make you fall in love if there if thereno initial chemistry? Of course not.

[Sand Man Dan]

Nothing can beat a nice guy with character. And I mean, nothing.

 

The problem is waiting for girls to grow into women who understand this.

[Sand Man Dan]

And men too. Most men simply go for looks and don't spend as much energy examining a girl's character. I think as people mature they learn about this. I do think generally speaking women pay more attention to whats on the inside though.

 

100% agree, at least in general. I know that for me, of course physical attraction is the "bare essentials" as it probably is with most folks, but things like respect, communication, and trustworthiness are things I will gladly sacrifice on looks for: indeed, it's a deal breaker if all four components are not present.

 

Women are absolutely more charmed by personality than external beauty.

[Yur]

Like others have said, I'm thinking the unattractive type of nice is a passive nice guy, too, which is something I'm trying to overcome, since that's me. Probably a snowball effect of low confidence, more passive, less success with the opposite sex, further knocks to confidence. Would make sense with how confidence and leadership qualities are known attractive qualities in men and how unlikely it is for 'bad boys' that do well with women to be passive.

 

Dear Men: Passivity is not your friend

[Kate9292]

Like others have said, I'm thinking the unattractive type of nice is a passive nice guy, too, which is something I'm trying to overcome, since that's me. Probably a snowball effect of low confidence, more passive, less success with the opposite sex, further knocks to confidence. Would make sense with how confidence and leadership qualities are known attractive qualities in men and how unlikely it is for 'bad boys' that do well with women to be passive.

 

Dear Men: Passivity is not your friend

 

Well, yeah. Being passive is not good. It is almost a synonym for "door mat". If a guy wants a woman really badly, why wouldn't he go for it?